bumpy skin..........again
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Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:26 pm

Hi everyone, I've never posted on one of these things before and I was actually here looking for a new moisturiser. When I saw this post, I had to write in because I've been in your position and I know how awful it is.

There's no need to panic!!!

What you are describing sounds the same as a condition that I have had for most of my life - keratosis pilaris. It's easy to tell if you have it, look for:

* Scaley bumps on the top of your arms and maybe on your thighs
* The skin will be red (irritated) and will have little bumps which are hair follicles blocking the pore
* It gets worse when your skin is dry

KP is extremely common (a huge % of women get it, mainly on their arms) but unfortunately you can't [i]cure [/i]it. For most people it will spontaneously go away but in the meantime you can improve the look of it - especially, if you're unlucky like me and get it on your face. If it's on your face you will have red cheeks and rough, bumpy skin. It's usually on the cheeks or it presents as scaley, flakey bits in the eyebrows.

All my life I worried about my very red cheeks and I went to all sorts of lengths to try to hide it. I was so worried about it that the fact that my skin was super dry never even occured to me! There wasn't a single day when I didn't wear foundation to try to tone down my cheeks.

I spoke to a number of dermos and quite a few just made inane comments like "but it's pretty to have rosy cheeks". This of course just made me madder b/c there's nothing pretty about this! A 1% hydrocortisone will clear it up but there are draw backs, including that you can't use hydrocortisone on an ongoing basis - thins the skin.

Finally, I found a dermo who was able to tell me what the problem was. With a combination of her advice and about five years of testing, I have developed my own system to keep it under control - and it won't cost you a fortune.

Basically, I treat my skin as though it's 'combination' skin in the sense that I pretend that I get breakouts (I don't) and it's extremely dry. This gives me the basis to choose my products.

The bumps and red flush that you are seeing are caused by blocked hair follicles and irritation. The hair follicles are blocked because you are not shedding the top layer of dead skin cells so they build up to block the pore. This is happening at a 'micro' level - manual exfoliants are not the solution.

So, here's my program:

1) Wash face at night to remove all traces of make-up. (I use Dermalogica gentle cleanser). Don't use anything too drying or irritating and don't rub excessively - gentle, your skin is inflamed! Water is drying and hot water is worse but you need at least luke warm water to break down the make-up etc.

You must clean your face every day because any dirt or clogging of pores will make it worse.

2) Apply a 1 or 2% salycilic acid (BHA) to clean skin. (I use Avene Cleanance K, about AUD20 from the pharmacy). I find BHA much better than AHA or any of the other acids, I know they work differently but I don't know why BHA is best for this. Glycolic or other AHAs seem to be too harsh???

If you haven't used BHA before or your skin is very irritated, start by using it once every second day, there may be a slight sting but if it's not uncomfortable, you can step up to once every day. I find twice a day is too irritating but it's a case of trial and error.

3) Apply a good moisturiser, that suits your skin type. Again, my skin is really dry so I use the richest I can get. It doesn't seem to make much difference which one you use but dryness definately makes the bumps and the redness worse. I have used Vitamin E cream (Macro), Dermalogica (various) and currently use Givenchy but there's no real stand out that I'm loyal to.

4) USE AT LEAST 30+ SUNSCREEN EVERYDAY. The process that I've described and the acid you're using is stripping away a layer of your skin which provides a (small) level of protection from sun damage so your skin will be more sensitive to the sun. Sunscreen is always good practice but it is even more critical if you follow this program.

Do not rely on the sunscreen in your make-up - it is not enough. Sunscreen needs to be applied liberally and thoroughly - not possible with a powder and likely to look odd with a liquid foundation.

In the past I've used Dermalogica 30+ sunscreen booster on its own under make-up and been very happy with it. A sunscreen has enough in it to be used as a day cream for most people. At the moment I'm trialling Estee Lauder Day Wear 30+ to see if all the extra anti-oxidents etc. are worth it. So far I'm happy with it.

5) Don't use a make-up that is too drying - it will make things worse. I find that powders show up the pores etc and dry out my skin but this is probably about trial and error for your skin type.

This doesn't sound like much but it made a HUGE difference - people now compliment me on my porcelain/ english rose skin and I can go out without make-up or with just translucent powder (Guerlain meteorites). My skin isn't soft and smooth and my quest to find the best moisturiser is ongoing but at least my skin is not nearly as angry as it was before.

Occassionaly I use a manual exfoliant (Dermalogica microfoliant or Nivea) but no more than once or twice a week. I schlep on a moisturising masque whenever I have time - once a week would be nice!

It will take a couple of weeks following this system for other people to see a difference but you will probably notice the change pretty quickly.

I'm not very good at the technology of posting so I'm not sure of the name of the lady who posted this question originally but my advice to you is STOP. Your skin is irritated and inflamed and you are responding by heaping a whole bunch of harsh products on it. Follow a simple regime for a while so you can see if you are actually reacting to one of the many products you're using. All of the rubbing and acid is making your skin more angry and inflamed.

Anyway, if anyone uses my system, let me know if it works, it has literally changed my life!

free skin care · Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:48 pm

thank you, nikita,
for that helpful and informative post on kp, which i know is very much misunderstood 'round the world.
i was also going to update this thread this very evening because after much thought and reflection and detective work (on my own face, of course), I've decided that at least in my own situation, rosehip seed oil was indeed the culprit. i tried purchasing it from a different source and using it again neat on my skin, and i noticed tiny little clogged pores everywhere. i had mixed it with liquid oat beta glucans, and i suspected it was the bg, but i have also been using rosehip seed oil exclusively on my chest, and now i am getting tiny bumps and a few whiteheads there, too! unfortunately, i cannot use this neat. but i am going to continue putting it into my conditioner along with seakelp bioferment, and mixing it with my soap in the shower (no need to moisturize afterwards!). When i run out of weleda rose oil caps (which contain rosehip but do not break me out), i'll mix it conservatively with my other oils.
i know others have claimed they react this way to rosehip seed oil, so i think it is important to note that it is very strong and tricky to use--use with measure and caution, ladies!

--avalange

free skin care · Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:30 pm

avalange wrote:

thank you, nikita,
for that helpful and informative post on kp, which i know is very much misunderstood 'round the world.
i was also going to update this thread this very evening because after much thought and reflection and detective work (on my own face, of course), I've decided that at least in my own situation, rosehip seed oil was indeed the culprit. i tried purchasing it from a different source and using it again neat on my skin, and i noticed tiny little clogged pores everywhere. i had mixed it with liquid oat beta glucans, and i suspected it was the bg, but i have also been using rosehip seed oil exclusively on my chest, and now i am getting tiny bumps and a few whiteheads there, too! unfortunately, i cannot use this neat. but i am going to continue putting it into my conditioner along with seakelp bioferment, and mixing it with my soap in the shower (no need to moisturize afterwards!). When i run out of weleda rose oil caps (which contain rosehip but do not break me out), i'll mix it conservatively with my other oils.
i know others have claimed they react this way to rosehip seed oil, so i think it is important to note that it is very strong and tricky to use--use with measure and caution, ladies!

--avalange

Avalange, thanks for the infromation. I just ordered Dr H conditioner sensitive. It has rosehip oil in its ingredients list. Hopefully I won't get any bad reaction to it. My skin is rather sensitive now.

free skin care · Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:31 pm

I wonder if that has anything to do with the rash I have on one of my legs. I noticed it a few days ago when I was shaving my legs, its all red bumps like the sort of a rash but its only on my right leg, and its only on the top front part, from my knee up to my bikini area. Isn't that weird? I also have noticed bumps on the backside of my arms, just in a small area up by my armpit, a few inches away. I just figure its dry skin. I don't moisturize very often. I know my face isn't getting that much better, and I have been cutting down on products too. I have been doing the yogurt aloe mask with some aspirin sometimes, almost every night, sometimes I forget, and I haven't been using any acid, until Saturday night, I did a ten percent lactic acid peel. Other than that I have only moisturized with emu and or rosehip oil,(and I have used cps too) but I am all out of rosehip oil because I spilled the stuff. I am going to use the weleda capsules tonight with the avene water to see if that helps.
Avalange, how do you wash your face with that? Its not really a cleanser is it? I don't want to leave any dirt on my face. Thanks everyone for the advice.

free skin care · Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:46 pm

hi rae,

have you noticed any improvement since you've been taking these mesures? It is possible that your body bumps are KP--it is extremely common. i think you have clogged pores on your face, though. i am convinced that rosehip causes them for a lot of people.

i use the avene instead of tap water to wash my face; i use cleanser twice a day because i just adore my cleansers and cannot wait to use them!

i mist my skin, massage the cleanser in, and mist again, removing everything with a cotton pad. i repeat the process several times (misting/cotton pad). i then mist my face and add oils/creams, unless i am using a retinoid, in which case i heard you are supposed to apply that to dry skin only.

i use the avene because i have hard water where i live, and my skin was getting supersensitive here--easily flushed and reactive--when i washed with tap water. i find the avene misting method to be vastly superior: cleansing is now a richly rewarding experience; my skin is always glowing and clean!

--avalange

free skin care · Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:44 pm

Thanks avalange. I have only used these two things for a couple of days so I don't know yet. When I used these two for the first day I noticed that I had more blackheads than I usually have, so I thought maybe I was using too much of something, so last night I used bha AND the mandelic, even though I kind of wanted to back off the acids, I couldn't help it. My face looks a little better today. I do like the avene, and I looove the smell of the weleda capsules. I hope they work for me.
As far as the bumps on my leg. The weirdest thing. I have never had them before and the fact that they are only on one leg bothers me. NOT that I want them on both. When I look closely they are red odd shaped, not just dots, little red thingys not really raised or anything, and my leg looks scaley in that area, so I was thinking I probably maybe need some lotion, but I tell ya, lately I am having a hard time getting out of bed at 6 and find myself pushing the snooze until 6:30 when I have to be at work at 7. I always THINK of putting lotion on but dress my kids instead, lol. I should just see derm, for everything, but I there is no place close, and I am certainly not missing a day or work for it.
Thanks so much for your advice. I am going to continue on this regimen, and try to keep it as simple as possible like you said. Rae

free skin care · Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:18 pm

rae..

A while ago, you said u are trying Juvena Juvedical Serum.. how did that work out for you?

I'm still plagued by a face full of bumps.. I'm using Differin (retin A gel) at night.

Clarins cleansing milk
Clarins hydra moisture lotion

i'm soooo desparate.

free skin care · Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:35 pm

amaska: I've used Clarin's cleansing milk and I find that it doesn't fully clean my face that well. It uses the whole press and roll method but it doesn't seem to be potent enough to keep clean like it should. Perhaps you could try another cleanser and see if it helps your bumps?

If you're looking for a cleansing milk I really like Dr.H and Primavera, both clean well and are soothing to the skin.

free skin care · Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:37 pm

I have been getting the same thing. I honestly believe DHCC is the culprit. I have only been using it every other day and it seems they come about the next day after use. Im gonna buy some drugstore mild low pH cleanser today and replace DHCC for a week and observe the difference.

On another note, the BHA i started using a week ago has done tremendous good.

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:50 pm

Jeffer wrote:

I have been getting the same thing. I honestly believe DHCC is the culprit. I have only been using it every other day and it seems they come about the next day after use. Im gonna buy some drugstore mild low pH cleanser today and replace DHCC for a week and observe the difference.

On another note, the BHA i started using a week ago has done tremendous good.

I agree with you. Actually, I just bought DHCC earlier this week and I think it's giving me congested skin. I have clogged pores and really oily skin. Even my eyelids get oily and I need to blot every 2-3 hours. Anyhow, I read that DHCC is great for clogged pores and I was hoping it would help me produce less oil.

Nope. The second day after using DHCC for the first time, I started developing small bumps on my face. According to that acne detective site, one of the ingredients in DHCC, wheat germ oil, is super pore clogging. My DHCC is going to go back to Sephora.

free skin care · Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:04 pm

Hi. I did use the juvena juvedical serum, the eye one and the face serum. I hate to say, but I never finished either one of them. I don't think they were bad, just didn't see anything good and I'm not sure if I am remembering correctly but the juvena juvedical face serum dried my skin out. I still have them in my cosmetics cupboard though. I can't toss them out, they were too much money. Confused

free skin care · Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:22 pm

razinkane wrote:

Thanks avalange. I have only used these two things for a couple of days so I don't know yet. When I used these two for the first day I noticed that I had more blackheads than I usually have, so I thought maybe I was using too much of something, so last night I used bha AND the mandelic, even though I kind of wanted to back off the acids, I couldn't help it. My face looks a little better today. I do like the avene, and I looove the smell of the weleda capsules. I hope they work for me.
As far as the bumps on my leg. The weirdest thing. I have never had them before and the fact that they are only on one leg bothers me. NOT that I want them on both. When I look closely they are red odd shaped, not just dots, little red thingys not really raised or anything, and my leg looks scaley in that area, so I was thinking I probably maybe need some lotion, but I tell ya, lately I am having a hard time getting out of bed at 6 and find myself pushing the snooze until 6:30 when I have to be at work at 7. I always THINK of putting lotion on but dress my kids instead, lol. I should just see derm, for everything, but I there is no place close, and I am certainly not missing a day or work for it.
Thanks so much for your advice. I am going to continue on this regimen, and try to keep it as simple as possible like you said. Rae

rae, sounds like dermatitis or eczema to me--go to the drugstore and get some cream for eczema/dermatitis--maybe that will help for the leg bumps!

and keep us updated on your progress!

--avalange

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:41 pm

I've had these little red bumps on my eye contour area for over a year now. They just won't go away! Even though they are quite small, I still want to get rid of them! I have an appointment with the dermatologist in a couple of days hopefully she can fix the problem. Just wondering if any of you had any idea what it could be from? I've stopped using every single makeup product that I used to use, but to no avail!

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:33 pm

I am not sure that everyone on this thread is talking about the same sort of thing really.
I myself have quite a few of these bumps on my skin.
They are pale flesh coloured and if I squeeze them nothing comes out at all. I have seen a derm on the NHS who advised that they were Syringoma and enlarged sebaceous glands. As they were not a health risk no treatment was available on the NHS. Private treatment would cost me around £1000.

it is interesting that people seem to be getting them after a regime of exfoliation.
I have noticed that since I have been doing more exfoliation that I am seeing more of these especially at the tops of my cheeks. I think that these were very probably there already under the skin and that my exfoliating has just revealed them, as they would normally be covered in a layer of dead skin. I am hoping that if I continue with my regime that I will be able to get rid of them. I have seen quite a good improvment in several larger ones I have had for years using JB Green Apple peel just doted on top of the bumps.
However I do think that if you are prone to these that you may well always be finding new one popping up. I had one on my nose that I tried to remove my scratching it with an emery board, followed by 20% TCA peel and Super Cop x2. It scabbed up, heeled and grew right back Confused

.
I also have KP on my arms quite badly so I wouldn't rule out that these to conditions are related.

blackmamba:
It sounds like you have Syringoma. They are quite tricky to treat but your derm should be able to advise you if thats what it is and what to do. If you are in the US you should have some options. I hear that CO2 or Yag lasers are the best for treating these however it can be expensive with no promise it will work Sad

.
The good news is that these are genetic and nothing you are using is causing them.

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:13 pm

thanks for your help. I've done a bit of research on it now and it could possibly be what I have. However, the dots are smaller, and red, almost like pimples. They don't have a yellowish color like most cases of syringoma. Here's the wacky part I didn't mention before. I used to live in New Zealand and I saw two physicians there. Both said I had dermatitis and prescribed steroid creams for the affected area. They said that the cream would make it go away and to stop using it in a week. If the dots came back, I was to go back and see them. Well, the steroid cream worked like a charm and they were gone within 24 hours, but the dots came back several days later. I would've gone back to the physicians in NZ, but my husband and I moved back to the U.S. just shortly after. I've been using the steroid cream on and off again in order to keep them at bay until I could see a good dermatologist. Could it still be syringoma if the cream temporarily makes it go away? And how bad is it to use a steroid cream, even if it's just a pin drop? Thanks again!

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:34 pm

Thats really interesting about the steroid cream working, perhaps it is a diffrent condition? My bumps are more flesh coloured however I have some steroid cream lying around myself so I am a bit tempted to try this on my own syringoma. You could use a little to see if it would help but I don't think it would be wise to use steroid cream on a regular basis, they can thin the skin and can cause damage which is not what you want especially in the under eye area. Also topicals are more readily absorbed in the under eye area as the skin is so thin and I don't know if the cream could damage your eye itself?
I use Retin A under my eyes and worry sometimes that it might damage my eyes. Perhaps if you have a bump further from the eye you could try a spot of the cream on that? To be safe it is probably best to wait and speak to a derm. Good luck and let me know how you get on!

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:37 pm

Thanks! I'll post a reply thursday after my appointment. I'm really curious. Hoping it'll be something easy to get rid of though...

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:40 pm

I hope the derm is able to help you, I have just come up against brick walls trying to get treatment for these in the uk. I try not to dwell on it too much but it really gets me down at times.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:44 pm

You guys don't think it could be perioral dermatitis do you?

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:52 pm

I've done some research on perioral dermatitis and it says that using heavy face creams and/ or topical steroids. Well, a few weeks before the bumps developed, I switched to Trilogy's line of beauty products. I used they're cream cleanser, vital moisturizing cream, and rosehip oil. I am starting to think that they were too rich for me. Apparently the condition clears up on its own with a few simple measures (although it can come back at any stage). I've been using a steroid cream to treat it, which has made it impossible to heal correctly. The website I looked at also said that once use of the steroid cream stopped, the dermatitis would appear worse for a short time and then get better. I wonder...

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:45 pm

have you tried purivol clearcomplex. im thinking of buying this and want to know if other people had success with it.

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:56 pm

I haven't tried it yet...was thinking about trying it Laughing

, but will wait to see what the dermatologist says first. It's definitely on my list of products to try.

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:12 pm

Do you guys know much about perioral dermatitis? I think this is what I have. Confused

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:58 pm

Here is a good link for perioral dermatitis with pictures. http://www.aocd.org/skin/dermatologic_diseases/perioral_dermatiti.html Is that what your rash looks like?

Do you think it might be eczema? My son got a bad rash at 6 weeks old. His whole face, and later his body, was covered in red bumps, and it eventually got so bad that the bumps were practically touching each other. The doctor told me it was eczema and I was surprised because the only type of eczema I had ever seen was dry flaky skin and that's not what his was. After allergy testing it was found that he has a severe milk protein allergy and the trace amounts in my breastmilk from the milk I was drinking was enough to cause the eczema. I stopped drinking milk, his eczema cleared right up. So maybe you have an allergy?

free skin care · Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:45 pm

Perhaps I do have an allergy. I've never had any before (except for hay fever). Maybe I just didn't realize it. My rash does kind of look like perioral dermatitis, only quite a mild case. I don't have a rash around my lips though. It's just my eyes. My husband says he can barely notice them. Only when we're in really intense lighting. Anyway, thank you so much for your help and I will keep everyone posted! Can't get to the dermatologist fast enough!

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