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Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:58 am |
Lucie, I would strongly suggest that the Obagi Blue Peel be done in a physicians office. There are different levels of this peel that they can give depending on your own skin. I would definitely let a professional decide how much depth you need for this peel. (I have never had this done, but would love to one of these days).
Your other option is to use the Nu Derm for the full 18 weeks (a wholehearted attempt!!) and see if your skin even needs it after the 18 weeks. You might be surprised, if you use all the products daily with the correct amount, how your skin looks in 18 weeks! |
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:25 am |
Hi, Clinty.
Take a look at Diana P.'s before and after pictures on page 3 in the thread below. Her hyperpigmentation has improved greatly by using NIA24 products.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18153 |
_________________ Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:37 am |
travelynn wrote: |
Hi Bethany,
I'm not sure what your previous experiences were, but it sounds like the pain and peeling are really difficult for you. They were for me too, that's why I sought out this forum and tried to figure out if that much pain, blistering and redness was normal. After reading many responses here at EDS, I know that it is!
I felt like I had third degree burns on my face, and the last thing I wanted to do was put retin A on my face at night, knowing how awful it would look and feel the next morning. I actually had gum surgery just as I started Obagi, and I scarcely remember any pain from the surgery, as the pain was all concentrated on my blistered face.
HOWEVER, IT DOES GET BETTER, honest! Go for it, hang in there, apply the full protocol every day and night, and judging from most responses, the very worst of it will be over in about two weeks. You may notice the melasma fading and your skin becoming smoother by that point, and it's only the beginnning.
That's what happened for me. I can finally see that subtle glow that I was hoping for immediately. I know it is so difficult to understand how all that burning, peeling, redness and pain can possibly be good for your skin, but these docs know what they are talking about. Come here for support whenever you need it, I can tell you that it certainly helped me hang in there. You can do it! |
You pretty much described exactly how I am feeling. I had hoped to alternate Nu-Derm days with ZO days, but I ma not sure that is going to be an option because the ZO products stung SO badly last night (and they never sting me).
At this point I am going to try and stick with the Nu-Derm on my face (plus the ZO Growth Factor Serum), and continue the ZO on my neck and chest. But I will only be doing the RA/Blender every 2-3 nights for a while.
I am wondering if I am really going to have to do a full 18 weeks...my skin is pretty responsive, and I have fairly limited damage and pigmentation compared to most people. I guess we'll see!! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:41 am |
clinty wrote: |
Hey guys. I also want to say thanks for all the info posted. It certainly is helpful. Bethany, how is your face feeling now? It's suppose to peel right? I will decide after my peel, which one to go for Obagi or Mama. They both sound good. |
I started the RA 3x/week last week, and added in the Obagi Clear and Blender starting on Saturday....I have already peeled completely on Monday and Tuesday and have some straggler pieces left today. Yuck. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:42 am |
rileygirl wrote: |
Yes, Coconut. Nu Derm is a system using Hydroquinone and Retin A. |
They also have non-HQ options...the Clear FX and the Blender FX. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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travelynn
New Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:16 pm |
Hi all,
I don't know if the Obagi protocol instructions are included with individual product purchases, but when I purchased my full kit, I received a booklet describing what to do. Here is my daily protocol, as advised by Obagi:
Morning: cleanser, toner, vitamin C (4 to 6 drops), clear, eye cream, wait 2 minutes and reapply clear to worst melasma spots, exfoderm, sunfader, healthy skin sunblock.
Evening: cleanser, toner, clear, eye cream, wait 2 minutes and reapply clear to worst melasma spots, mix retin A with blender.
I've been doing this every day and night for 14 weeks so far, but as I said earlier, after just six weeks my melasma was gone. I never considered mixing other products in or reducing the protocol, I figured I needed to follow the regime or else the money I paid would be for nothing. For me, this was a great deal of money to spend on skin care.
I can tell you that the full protocol, religiously followed, worked for me in a short amount of time. I think it's like ripping off a bandage; you can do it slowly and incremently and suffer pain for a longer period of time, or just rip it, feel the pain immediately and be done! Those first two weeks felt endless at the time, but looking back now I can see that they were a blip in the part of this process.
What helped me the most was reading other posters' encouragement that it really was worth, that it really does work, so I came back to offer my encouragement now. Hang in there! |
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:31 pm |
travelynn wrote: |
I've been doing this every day and night for 14 weeks so far, but as I said earlier, after just six weeks my melasma was gone. I never considered mixing other products in or reducing the protocol, I figured I needed to follow the regime or else the money I paid would be for nothing. For me, this was a great deal of money to spend on skin care. |
Some of the online resources I looked at said that you can reduce the RA/Blender combo from every night to every other night, or every 3rd night if the irritation is too bad.
Considering that my face is ultra red and HOT right now, I am going for every 2-3 days at the moment...I might be able to ramp it up after some of my dermarolling irritation from Sunday subsides.
I am already experiencing my first purge though. I have had some VERY deep zits that have been under the corner of my mouth forever, and they usually flare up every other month or so. I could see the bumps getting closer to the surface yesterday, and now it feels like one is developing into an active zit...oh joy. Maybe this time they will go away for good!
Editing to add:
Here is a link to the Sensitive protocol that I am doing...it says to use both the Exfoderm and the RA/Blender every other day or less.
http://www.obagisale.com/pdf/GradualDrySunfader.pdf
Here is an overview of all the protocols:
http://www.obagisale.com/q6.php
You can download the other protocols here after you complete a questionnaire:
http://www.obagisale.com/q7.php |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:18 am |
OK, Bethany, I'm right with you. I work for Dr. Obagi, and God help you if you work for him and have problems with laxity and pigmentation.
So last year I did the 18 week NuDerm regimen (and had a Blue Peel, I might add!), so hopefully you can benefit from what I learned.
1. The redness and peeling is awful, and disgusting, but it works. I don't think you should cut back on the intensity or frequency of the products, though, Goodness knows, since you derma-roll, you're no wimp. It's just like old-fashioned Listerine. Just do it, and get it over with. It's worth it.
2. Stick with the ZO Growth Factor Serum--it will make you more comfortable. The two peptides in it were specifically developed to reduce irritation. There are other products on the market that will help relieve redness, burning, but they also reduce the effectiveness of NuDerm.
3. As soon as you're a little more comfortable, begin with the ZO Exfoliating Polish. It gets rid of all of the crud--peeling and flaking--not all day, but at least for 3-4 hours. Use it in the shower. It's a life-saver. You may not feel comfortable using the first couple of days, though.
4. When you're done with the regimen, continue to use the Clear and Blender/Retin-A combination. I didn't, and now regret it. Thank goodness Dr Obagi doesn't read this forum, because you can revert back to "God help me...", there would be no mercy. Yesterday somebody commented on how my skin wasn't as even-toned. So I'm starting with the whole regimen again. So now it's 125 days and counting...
5. Don't use the other ZO products until you're done with the NuDerm regimen. Then, together with Blender/Retin-A, they'll be great at maintaining your results. It's what Dr. Obagi calls "the circle of health". You'll love the ZO products even more when you're done with the NuDerm regimen.
So hang in there, I'm right with you.
Donna Queen |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:19 am |
zoskinhealth wrote: |
OK, Bethany, I'm right with you. I work for Dr. Obagi, and God help you if you work for him and have problems with laxity and pigmentation.
So last year I did the 18 week NuDerm regimen (and had a Blue Peel, I might add!), so hopefully you can benefit from what I learned.
... So I'm starting with the whole regimen again. So now it's 125 days and counting...
So hang in there, I'm right with you.
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Donna, I think you work at one of the few places where going to work with a red, crusty face is a badge of honor, lol.
I am so glad to have a Nu-Derm buddy that is going through this at the same time...it is not easy!
But after learning more about Dr. O's philosophies, etc. I am totally convinced that he was far ahead of anyone else in skin rejuvenation. I have been conservative over the last year, and while my texture has improved, the pigmentation has not budged. I figured that I really need to do Nu-Derm in order to get the PERFECT (meaning pigment-free) skin I am looking for, and then ZO will help keep it that way.
The ZO Exfoliating Polish is one of my favorite products...I just ordered 2 new containers, so I am ready to tackle the peeling head on! But I did not realize that the ZO Growth Factor Serum could help with irritation....that is great to know.
BTW, I am much less red and irritated today, thank goodness! I have already applied all my stuff this morning and am looking forward to FLAWLESS skin! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:34 am |
Bethany, you actually did make me laugh out loud. (thanks, I needed that!)
You're right, peeling, redness, etc. are all de rigueur around Obagi offices! Everyone there has drop-dead gorgeous skin though! It's tough to keep up.
While I'm on NuDerm, I've learned to live with letting people see me with red, peeling skin. When I'm not on NuDerm, my handbag is chock-full of some ZO products that I can't live without. I stop short, though, of letting anyone other than my dog, Casey, see me after I had the Blue Peel. (actually, I think even she was a little scared and embarrassed!)
If you ever decide to do that, let's talk first! And BTW, as much as I hated the Blue Peel, (I couldn't believe what he did to me!!), I would do it all over again. (Now that's scarey!) |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:11 am |
Donna, could you please talk about the Blue Peel? I want to know everything about it; does it hurt, how long is the down time, etc. Give all the details, Please! (How odd, one of my dogs is named KC, pronounced Casey!) |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:37 pm |
Dr. Obagi created a short video with a case study of one particular patient with melasma. What was remarkable about it was not just the change in her skin, but the way it improved her self-confidence. The video was made for physicians, but there's only a small portion of it that's technical. I'll see if I can get a copy of it, and we'll post it on our website. The video is now a couple of years old and some of the Obagi products have changed, but it's interesting to see how the treatment of melasma can make a dramatic difference. The girl was very ordinary looking, with pigmentation problems. After treatment, she was absolutely beautiful; it was not just a change in her skin, but her whole personality. I'll see if I can get a copy of it.
Donna Queen |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:42 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
Donna, could you please talk about the Blue Peel? I want to know everything about it; does it hurt, how long is the down time, etc. Give all the details, Please! (How odd, one of my dogs is named KC, pronounced Casey!) |
Hi, Rileygirl.
I spent way too much time in the sun during my teens and 20s, so had substantial damage. Since he is both my friend and boss, Dr. Obagi gave me no mercy--so I got a very aggressive peel. When they saw me later that day, people who work in his office just kind of snickered, they could tell by the intensity of the blue that he had socked it to me.
What makes the Blue Peel unique is that it allows the physician to control the depth (and therefore outcome) of the peel. (you want it to stop at the papillary dermis, and not reach the reticular dermis, which would cause scarring). The premise behind the peel is: injury--repair--response. The doctor creates an injury (necrosis) so that the skin will repair itself (peel), and then respond (new tissue formation). Because the Blue Peel is a medium-depth peel, it has very low risk, has cumulative benefits (the skin will continue to improve for 4-6 months), and can be used repetitively. Lots of people want to have it repeated every 2-3 years.
He has trained maybe 10,000 dermatologists and plastic surgeons worldwide on NuDerm and the Blue Peel procedure, and of course he's the guy who developed both, so I felt very comfortable having him do the procedure. He did it in his surgical suite, it took maybe an hour, tops. Honestly, I don't remember a thing because of the anesthesia. There was zero pain or discomfort of any kind. Another thing that's interesting is that during the procedure, he never lets anybody else touch your skin (no derm nurses, no other doctors). He's very territorial to make sure that he takes care of everyone, personally.
Because of the anesthesia, you're not supposed to drive for a day.
Even though Dr. Obagi has just about every laser known to man (he's a typical guy--likes to buy the tech stuff), the Blue Peel still gives a better result than any kind of laser. The downside, of course, is that aesthetically, it's nasty (sorry to be so brutally honest, but it is!!)
You have to go into virtual seclusion for several days following the Blue Peel. Stock the fridge, and lock the door. Your face will swell, the blue will fade, and then your skin will peel. You're not supposed to peel the skin (rather, let it peel itself), but it drove me crazy. So I peeled it (which shortened the recovery time, but can also cause scarring, so I would not recommend it).
Honestly, after 3-4 days, I hated it. It was atrocious. After about a week, (and the peeling was done), I thought it was terrific. As for having it repeated every 2-3 years, well, I'm not there yet... We'll see... |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:01 pm |
Thanks for the details, Donna. What type of anesthesia is used, meaning are you knocked out or is it a local, or does it depend on the depth of the peel?
Tell me (us) how does one find a good physician to perform the Blue Peel? (Has Dr. Obagi trained any derm in Orlando?) |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:27 pm |
Hello,
I'm new here and suffer from melasma on the upper lip and acne So I tried Obagi in May and it actually made my melasma darker and it would not lighten up at all. The other spots on my face lightened up really well but not what I really wanted to fix. So after using it for 2 months and hating to look in the mirror I gave it up and to this day I'm try to find a fix for this. Does anyone have any suggestions please. I get so depressed looking in the mirror.
Thanks
Sylvia |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:35 pm |
zoskinhealth wrote: |
Bethany, you actually did make me laugh out loud. (thanks, I needed that!)
You're right, peeling, redness, etc. are all de rigueur around Obagi offices! Everyone there has drop-dead gorgeous skin though! It's tough to keep up.
While I'm on NuDerm, I've learned to live with letting people see me with red, peeling skin. When I'm not on NuDerm, my handbag is chock-full of some ZO products that I can't live without. I stop short, though, of letting anyone other than my dog, Casey, see me after I had the Blue Peel. (actually, I think even she was a little scared and embarrassed!)
If you ever decide to do that, let's talk first! And BTW, as much as I hated the Blue Peel, (I couldn't believe what he did to me!!), I would do it all over again. (Now that's scarey!) |
Donna, after reading the Obagi textbook, I am REALLY wanting a Blue Peel...I was wow'd by the tighting benefits.
But the pictures in the book made me realize that I would personally probably be in seclusion for 2-3 weeks because I swell so badly. (the "no-down time" Fraxel caused me to swell for 2 weeks the first time...then I had to take steriods for the next 3 treatments)
And there is certainly NO ONE more qualified to do it than Dr. O....what a great perk for you!! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:39 pm |
ezduzit wrote: |
Hello,
I'm new here and suffer from melasma on the upper lip and acne So I tried Obagi in May and it actually made my melasma darker and it would not lighten up at all. The other spots on my face lightened up really well but not what I really wanted to fix. So after using it for 2 months and hating to look in the mirror I gave it up and to this day I'm try to find a fix for this. Does anyone have any suggestions please. I get so depressed looking in the mirror.
Thanks
Sylvia |
Sylvia, did you follow the complete Nu-Derm protocol to the letter? If not, you might want to give that a go.
If you did follow it exactly as prescribed and had no results, you might want to look at NIA24....you can see DianaP's pics here:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18153 |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:00 pm |
bethany wrote: |
zoskinhealth wrote: |
Bethany, you actually did make me laugh out loud. (thanks, I needed that!)
You're right, peeling, redness, etc. are all de rigueur around Obagi offices! Everyone there has drop-dead gorgeous skin though! It's tough to keep up.
While I'm on NuDerm, I've learned to live with letting people see me with red, peeling skin. When I'm not on NuDerm, my handbag is chock-full of some ZO products that I can't live without. I stop short, though, of letting anyone other than my dog, Casey, see me after I had the Blue Peel. (actually, I think even she was a little scared and embarrassed!)
If you ever decide to do that, let's talk first! And BTW, as much as I hated the Blue Peel, (I couldn't believe what he did to me!!), I would do it all over again. (Now that's scarey!) |
Donna, after reading the Obagi textbook, I am REALLY wanting a Blue Peel...I was wow'd by the tighting benefits.
But the pictures in the book made me realize that I would personally probably be in seclusion for 2-3 weeks because I swell so badly. (the "no-down time" Fraxel caused me to swell for 2 weeks the first time...then I had to take steriods for the next 3 treatments)
And there is certainly NO ONE more qualified to do it than Dr. O....what a great perk for you!! |
Bethany, I saw your picture on LinkedIn. You look GREAT! Don't mess with success! |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:18 pm |
ezduzit wrote: |
Hello,
I'm new here and suffer from melasma on the upper lip and acne So I tried Obagi in May and it actually made my melasma darker and it would not lighten up at all. The other spots on my face lightened up really well but not what I really wanted to fix. So after using it for 2 months and hating to look in the mirror I gave it up and to this day I'm try to find a fix for this. Does anyone have any suggestions please. I get so depressed looking in the mirror.
Thanks
Sylvia |
Sylvia: I'm not in a position to give you any medical advice, nor do I work for Obagi Medical Products (the company that makes NuDerm). You have a medical condition, and should see a professional. So you can take my opinion for what it's worth.
Post inflammatory hyperpigmentation can be caused by using hydroquinone products or retinoids without proper sun protection. It's important to always wear a high SPF when using these proucts. See a doctor, and hopefully he/she can help. |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:23 pm |
ezduzit wrote: |
Hello,
I'm new here and suffer from melasma on the upper lip and acne So I tried Obagi in May and it actually made my melasma darker and it would not lighten up at all. The other spots on my face lightened up really well but not what I really wanted to fix. So after using it for 2 months and hating to look in the mirror I gave it up and to this day I'm try to find a fix for this. Does anyone have any suggestions please. I get so depressed looking in the mirror.
Thanks
Sylvia |
Have you seen a doctor for your melasma? That probably should be your first step. The only thing I could say about the Obagi is that it can make the area look darker before it improves. Also, the nu derm is meant to be used for 18 weeks, so possibly you did not give it enough time to work? |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:20 pm |
zoskinhealth wrote: |
Bethany, I saw your picture on LinkedIn. You look GREAT! Don't mess with success! |
That is the size of a postage stamp, lol. And MMU does do a great job of hiding my spots. But thanks for the compliment.
I am going to do the Nu-Derm regimen and then see how I feel when that is done. I may be done with peeling and redness at that point, lol. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:06 pm |
zoskinhealth wrote: |
1. The redness and peeling is awful, and disgusting, but it works. I don't think you should cut back on the intensity or frequency of the products, though, Goodness knows, since you derma-roll, you're no wimp. It's just like old-fashioned Listerine. Just do it, and get it over with. It's worth it.
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I have been thinking about this, and instead of adopting the Sensitive Protocol for wimps, I will go full force as long as I can.
I bought some of the Obagi Tolereen and I can spot treat with that as necessary instead of taking breaks. I actually used a little tonight under my nose where I already have a raw spot, but I think it is more sensitive since they sliced me open there for my nose surgery a year ago. But if I can get through the first 2-3 weeks, I know it gets better from there.
I am counting Monday 10/13 as Day 1, so I have 122 days left. That means Feb 15th will be my last day...woo hoo!
Today was not too bad...I just felt hot and a bit dry. And I was a Medium Rare, instead of a full on Rare in pinkness. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:18 pm |
Thanks for the responses. I did see 2 derm's and one gave me Finacea and said hopefully that would help. I didn't do much. And the other one just said that the only thing that would help is Tri-Luma. I'm afraid honestly to try the Tri-luma since I had a bad experience with the Obagi. I don't know if I should give the Obagi another try or try the Tri-luma. I really don't want it to get worse than it is. I just want it to go away!!! |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:27 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
Thanks for the details, Donna. What type of anesthesia is used, meaning are you knocked out or is it a local, or does it depend on the depth of the peel?
Tell me (us) how does one find a good physician to perform the Blue Peel? (Has Dr. Obagi trained any derm in Orlando?) |
Hi, Rileygirl, I thought that I answered your post, but apparently not...
The anesthesia was described to me as a local, but I was completely out of it. (I can't stand pain!!!) Yes, I think Dr. Obagi anesthetizes everyone. You can do it without, but it's quite painful.
As for a derm in Orlando area, Obagi physicians are listed on their website (obagi.com). Dr. Obagi has trained thousands of them, but sorry, despite all of his strengths, he's not good at names, so I can't help you at identifying a good one... |
_________________ ZO Skin Health |
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:48 pm |
zoskinhealth wrote: |
The anesthesia was described to me as a local, but I was completely out of it. (I can't stand pain!!!) Yes, I think Dr. Obagi anesthetizes everyone. You can do it without, but it's quite painful.
As for a derm in Orlando area, Obagi physicians are listed on their website (obagi.com). Dr. Obagi has trained thousands of them, but sorry, despite all of his strengths, he's not good at names, so I can't help you at identifying a good one... |
Thanks so much for the info. I am not too fond of pain myself, especially on my face! |
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