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Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:10 pm  |
I google by using MSM crystals keyword.
It jump out dog product.
So funny . |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:26 pm |
Hi Everyone -
So, I started MSM a few weeks ago - all because I learned about it here on this thread.
Am wondering though - has anyone (else besides me?) experienced water retention due to the MSM? I'm just curious - because my calves (!) seem bigger (when I wear my riding boots - I can feel the pulse pounding in my calves! Very odd...) and I don't normally ever retain water in my lower legs.
Otherwise, things seem fine - but I was wondering if it could be the MSM. (Haven't really started anything else but the MSM - at least internally...)
Thanks for your input!  |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:51 pm |
Yes! The water retention is noticeable the first few weeks and every time I increase my dosage.
The only way I combat the water retention is by consciously lowering my sodium intake (which is not easy but possible) and by chugging as much water as I can to flush out my system. It makes it hard at work when I'm constantly at the water fountain and then to the bathroom, but it lets the detoxification effect of the MSM do it's job and it has really hydrated my skin as well.
Just hang in there with the funky MSM side effects because they go away and the benefits are worth the small amount of discomfort in the beginning. |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:13 pm |
| Piscean32 wrote: |
| m1rox Where did you find dosage for specific skin care issues? |
Tangal's post on Page 2 of this thread has a quote from Vanessa Wild who was taking MSM for melasma. I got most of my information from there.
I don't think you need to take high dosages unless it's for fading pigmentation.
It doesn't seem to lighten my skin overall so if you're looking for a fairer complexion, this is probably not the product for it. It mainly fades abnormal pigment (esp. from sun damage or hormone-related). But not everyone will have success and certainly a lot of people would not be able to tolerate the side effects of high doses. Do take note that there is increasing hair loss at high doses. I read that this is temporary but if you have concerns about hair thickness, you are advised to stay at the lower doses to avoid this issue.
Note that there is not enough information to gauge if it would be safe for taking high doses on a long term basis and I also wouldn't do this. |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:57 pm |
| lilsigngrl wrote: |
Yes! The water retention is noticeable the first few weeks and every time I increase my dosage.
The only way I combat the water retention is by consciously lowering my sodium intake (which is not easy but possible) and by chugging as much water as I can to flush out my system. It makes it hard at work when I'm constantly at the water fountain and then to the bathroom, but it lets the detoxification effect of the MSM do it's job and it has really hydrated my skin as well.
Just hang in there with the funky MSM side effects because they go away and the benefits are worth the small amount of discomfort in the beginning. |
Oh, whew, thanks lilsigngrl! Good to know that I'm not the only one. I didn't want to be the only MSM failure out there...
I'll try your tips (darn, salt free is just so b-o-r-i-n-g - LOL) and see if that makes a difference. Just knowing that water retention is to be expected makes me feel less anxious about the whole process.
Thanks again! |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:26 pm |
This website serves as a resource for consumers, researchers, medical practitioners and media who want to learn about the science and evidence for MSM.
MSM, methylsulfonylmethane (METH-əl-sul-FON-il-METH-ane) provides sulfur, a vital building block of joints, cartilage, skin, hair and nails, and methyl groups, which support many vital biochemical processes in the body, including energy production. MSM is a naturally-occurring nutrient found in small amounts of many foods. As a dietary supplement, MSM is synthesized. When made correctly, it is identical to that found in nature. MSM can be taken alone or in combination with other joint health supplements, such as glucosamine and chondroitin.
Published, peer-reviewed clinical research in the U.S. has shown MSM is safe and effective in increasing joint comfort and supporting a normal range of motion.
It seems mainly used for joint problem |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:06 pm |
| m1rox wrote: |
Note that there is not enough information to gauge if it would be safe for taking high doses on a long term basis and I also wouldn't do this. |
Just curious, Mlrox, what *is* considered to be a high dosage?
Thanks in advance! |
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Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:42 pm |
That's a good question, since there is no official recommended daily intake for MSM. For reference here is a link to a document from the FDA about MSM:
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~rdb/opa-g229.html
This is my personal opinion and not validated by any scientific evidence that a "high" dosage of MSM would probably be above 2000 - 3000 mg per day for an "average" person (would depend on weight).
Actually if you take the powder, the dosage is self-limiting because it gets too bitter to drink the mixture beyond a certain level and also you would get side effects that would limit your intake. So I think that everyone would have their own personal "tolerance" level in any case. |
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Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:08 am |
| taobunny wrote: |
| m1rox wrote: |
Note that there is not enough information to gauge if it would be safe for taking high doses on a long term basis and I also wouldn't do this. |
Just curious, Mlrox, what *is* considered to be a high dosage?
Thanks in advance! |
There is no daily value amount from FDA . But you can find some paper:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/msm.html
A single oral dose of MSM is usually not effective. . . . Therefore, the MSM is usually administered in successive spaced dosages, either periodically throughout the day or on successive days, or both, until such amelioration occurs, e.g., for 2 to 21 days or even longer. The amount of MSM in each dose usually is not critical, particularly when several successive doses are administered, because the ingested MSM accumulates in the body tissues and fluids, i.e., reaches an effective titre. Individual doses of as low as 50 mg. are sometimes effective and doses as high as 1,500 mg or more are well tolerated. The usual individual dose is about 100-1,000 mg., preferably 250-500 mg. Total daily dosages of 100-5,000 mg, preferably 250-2,000 mg, more preferably 500-1,500 mg, are usually employed. The effective dosage depends to some extent on the nature and severity of symptoms manifested; the cause of those symptoms; and the MSM blood level of the patient prior to the administration of the MSM thereto [3]. |
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Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:10 am |
| carolb69 wrote: |
Im up to 3 tsp now. How many grams is that?
6 weeks on ive noticed longer lashes but dont know if its the MSM or the Biotin I started taking the same time. Haent noticed difference in hair yet but I guess that takes longer to show. |
3 tsp = 42 grams |
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Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:41 am |
| Thanks M1rox and Hahaqj - I really appreciate your responses and information! |
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Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:25 am |
| Does anyone know if it is true that the heavier you are the higher dosage of MSM you should be taking? |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:40 pm |
I am very interested in MSM and funny enough have a bottle of it sitting in my kitchen cupboard. I will definitely give it a go. I was only today looking at some slimming products. It might be simpler than I thought.  |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:42 pm |
| Just to say about where to order MSM from: I also tried Iherb for vitamins and it is very reasonably priced. |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:18 pm |
| catballou wrote: |
| Fox, I'm always suspect of people or institutions whose aim is to be negative about anything that's not prescription. My experience is that I've done myself far more good with "health food" supplements than doctors ever did. Not everything that I try works for me or is even good for me, but I value the right to make my own choices. |
I hear you, but no one's questioning freedom of choice.
I seem to be on the fence somewhat, if I'm honest. On the one hand, like you said, intensely skeptical people make me skeptical of them in return. Some skeptics are merely only skeptical of anything that falls outside their own unquestioned dogma.
(I actually just finished listening to a podcast, Point of Inquiry. The skeptic they interviewed, a psychologist, grated my nerves something chronic nearing the end. He really wasn't thinking or considering important questions at all.)
On the other hand though... I agree with what Septembergirl said:
| Septembergirl wrote: |
| There seems to be a lack of science backing the health effects of MSM. I don't take MSM. I prefer to take supplements that are extensively researched for their effectiveness (and hopefully safety), like resveratrol, blueberry extract, green foods, omega 3 etc. Also, I don't want to take high doses of a supplement for the sole reason of improving my skin or hair. I need to know that the supplements I am taking are beneficial for my body in general. |
There are SO many threads on here where I think, "Damn, I wish I could do a study on that..." and satisfy my curiosity. |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:25 am |
I tried taking the crystals, and thought 1/2 teaspoon was a nice low dose to start. I dissolved the crystals in a little warm water, then added V8 with some worcestershire to cover up the taste. (Still bad, but tolerable.)
But ... I felt kinda nauseous and also got a headache. I never get headaches or have any stomach upset, so I could only blame the MSM. Skipped the evening dose, but gave it a shot again next AM. Same reaction, felt nauseous and got a headache.
Was I wrong on the dosage, and need to start with 1/8 or 1/4 teaspoon? I weigh 135. If 1/2 tsp should be tolerable, maybe this is just not for me. |
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57, fair/brown/hazel, fighting neck sag, jowls, age spots with retin-A, CP, DMAE - and lots of exercise and healthy food. |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:58 pm |
It is advised to start with a smaller amount and work up. I'd drop back to 1/8th t for the next week or so and then slowly, slowly add on.
Otherwise - GI distress, Gas, bloating and yes nausea can happen. |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:25 pm |
Fitfifty: You can read the long post by Tangal on page 2 of this thread where she copied information from Ness (Vanessa Wild). It's a good overview and gives information on how to build up the dose and what side effects can be expected.
You have to "listen" to your body. Go very slow if you are having the side effects. |
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:03 pm |
hi m1rox, i received my vitamins and can't wait to start on the MSM with Ester-C. The shipping was fast!
I bought SN msm 8oz bottle which contains both vitamin c and msm. Would you know if the bigger 32oz bottle is the same formulation or if its pure MSM?
I'm confused over the amt of msm to take and hope you can help.
In general, 1/2 level tsp is about 2000 mg MSM powder. The instructions on the bottle states that 1/2 tsp contains 650 mg vit c and 2.6g MSM. They're both "1/2 tsp". How can SN 1/2 tsp contain 600g more msm AND vit c as well?
Sorry to be splitting hair but it's driving me crazy. I want to be taking 4000mg a day (1 tsp) and not 5200mg....
thanks  |
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normal to combination skin that is sensitive. cheeks have large, visible pores and flush very easily. most SAs tell me "dehydrated on the outside, oily on the inside"! |
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:51 pm |
You have to follow the specific quantities in each product. If the Source Naturals brand label states that it contains 2.6g in 1/2 teaspoon, then that is how the brand's powder is formulated. Other brands may process their powder differently and end up with different amount of MSM in 1/2 teaspoon. If you want to aim for 4000mg per day, I suggest you take 1/2 teaspoon in the morning (2.6g) and 1/4 teaspoon in the evening (1.3g) which would add up to roughly 3.9g.
When you first start out, it would be wise to take 1/8 teaspoon per day (0.65g) in the morning for a few days until you are sure you are having no side effects (headaches, etc), then increase to 1/4 teaspoon (1.3g) for a few days, then add another dose in the evening (start off with 1/8 teaspoon to make sure you don't have any sleep disturbances) and gradually build up the doses over a couple of weeks.
The 35oz Source Naturals MSM is pure MSM without vitamin C. It's also 2.6g per 1/2 teaspoon. You would have to buy another Vit. C product to mix in with it. Source Naturals sell Ascorbyl Palmitate powder (C-ester). I think that's what some of the forum members here use for mixing with their MSM powder. You would need 1 tsp of the Ascorbyl Palmitate powder to mix with 1/2 tsp of the pure MSM powder if you use the pure MSM without vit. C. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:26 am |
Thanks. I bought the 8oz msm to try out first but was planning to get the 32oz bottle if things work out. It's cheaper and I can control the vit c amt. For now, I'll live with the 4 : 1 ratio.
When it states 1 tsp, does this mean leveled flat like in baking or just a general not too big heap?
I did buy Ester-C (American Health) as well but will save it to use with the pure MSM The ester c is 1/3 tsp for 750g vit c. LoL. Not quite sure where to get a 1/3 tsp 
I'm skipping C ester as it is oil soluble and I read that means the vit c may not be entire washed out of our bodies.
Once again, thank you very much your advice. I can't wait for the next shipping deal to place more order. Thanks to you, i also got my nordic natural fish oils at a savings.
Please do drop me a note if the sale is on again! |
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normal to combination skin that is sensitive. cheeks have large, visible pores and flush very easily. most SAs tell me "dehydrated on the outside, oily on the inside"! |
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Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:53 pm |
| This is really the most fascinating thread. I am taking 1000 mg MSM daily and will increase it based on this info. I also take ALA and silica (and 47 other supplements) for the skin. Thanks Tangal. |
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Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:19 am |
hello,
I can get hold of 1000mg capsules (I'm in the UK) would that be okay or are the crystals the most effective method?
thank you |
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:54 pm |
| FYI I heard MSM needs Vitamin C to be activated.Great ingredient tho,skin and joints! |
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Tue May 26, 2009 12:42 am |
| layla_land wrote: |
Does anyone know where I can buy MSM in Vancouver, Canada?
or suggested names of health food stores which might have it? |
I picked mine up at Shoppers (on sale). I can't remember but I think it was between 12-16 $.
Glucosamine is on sale at Pharmasave. I have to scout around for info on that now!! |
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23, fair, EDS newbie, taking Diane 35. |
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