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Dr. Kassy's face firming and eye cream
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare
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Kassy_A
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:20 pm      Reply with quote
Alley wrote:
fawnie this was a great lesson as a very novice DIYer. I looked up the ingredients (the ones I could find) and tried to figure out what they were and what their purpose was. There are a lot of chemicals, preservatives and stuff to make the cream a nice texture. I am guessing it smells pretty good too.

Kassy here is what I think were the anti-oxidents
diacetyle boldine, Ergothioneine, Limonene, Geraniol. The other useful actives were retinol, ubiquinone (CQ10), Beta Glucan. Having little clue about this I would imagine the amino acids would also be helpful?


You pretty much have picked out the good things! (I don't have a clue what the 1st one is, I'd have to google that.)

If I were to be wanting to make a comparable body cream, based on the ZO ingredients posted above, I would use the following actives, and put it in the Gold Bond as a base:

Vitamin A + E (this would be 1 TBS palm oil)
Vitamin C (1 tsp MAP + or THDA) LAA wouldn't work for this!)
Lactic Acid
Glucosamine
Co Q 10
Algae Extract
Pure Opti-MSM (2 capsules dissolved in H2O

The best of the other nice ingredients are already in the GB!

For comparison sake, here are the ingredients for Gold Bond Ultimate Restoring Lotion;

Water, Hydroxyethyl Urea, Glycerin, Dimethicone, Jojoba Esters, Petrolatum, Glyceryl Stearate, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Methyl Gluceth 20, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Alcohol, Butyrospermum Parkii Extract (Shea Butter), Ubiquinone, Ceramide 2, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Cocodimonium Hydroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Niacinamide, Tocopheryl Acetate, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Retinyl Palmitate, PEG 10 Rapeseed Sterol, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Polysorbate 60, Stearamidopropyl PG Dimonium Chloride Phosphate, Propylene Glycol, Steareth 21, Diazolidinyl Urea, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Esters, EDTA, Propylparaben, Butylene Glycol, C12 15 Alkyl Benzoate, Tribehenin, Potassium Hydroxide

And the ingredients for the ZO Body Emulsion;

Aqua (Water), Lactic Acid, Glycerin, Stearic Acid, Cetyl Alcohol, Cyclopentasiloxane, Pentylene Glycol, Isoicosane, Dimethicone, Dipentaerythrityl Hexa C5-9 Acid Esters, Sodium Hydroxide, Glyceryl Stearate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Tridecyl Stearate, Neopentyl Glycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, Tridecyl Trimellitate, Retinol, PEG-100 Stearate, Sodium Lauroyl Glutamate, Glucosamine HC1, Algae Extract, Yeast Extract (Faex), Urea, Allyl Methacrylates Crosspolymer, Polysorbate 20, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil Unsaponifiables, Tocopheryl Acetate, Butylene Glycol, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Protein, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Diacetyl Boldine, Ergothioneine, Acetyl Tyrosine, Proline, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein, AdenosineTriphosphate, Beta-Glucan, Ubiquinone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Disodium EDTA, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Xanthan Gum, Phenoxyethanol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Citral, Geraniol, Parfum.


BTW, 13oz of the Gold Bond is about $10 bucks!

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
ScotsLass
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:16 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
zyggy wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
The link is at the very top of my recipe post, and you can get it right here at EDS.. Price is fabulous, especially with the discount and cheapo shipping..

Check out this link for Viterol A Face;

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=31623
d'oh, I'm an idiot at times, or I just got to excited. =)

Here are the ingredients for that stuff,

WATER, GLYCERIN, ALOE BARBADENSIS LEAF JUICE, CUCUMBER EXTRACT, HYDROXYETHYLCELLULOSE, TIPEPTIDE-10 CITRULLINE, PALMITOYL TRIPEPTIDE-5, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, PALMITOYL OLIGOPEPTIDE, PALMITOYL TETRAPEPTIDE-3, ACETYL HEXAPEPTIDE-8, ACETYL TETRAPEPTIDE-5, UBIQUINONE, SODIUM ASCORBYL PHOSPHATE, CARBOMER, POLYSORBATE-20, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, PHENOXYETHANOL, CAPRYLYL GLYCOL, POTASSIUM SORBATE, HEXYLENE GLYCOL, LAVANDULA ANGUSTIFOLIA (LAVENDER) OIL, CITRUS AURANTIUM AMARA (BITTER ORANGE) FLOWER EXTRACT



NOT!

Here are the ingredients for Viterol A Face, (I don't know what the heck that is you posted.. Confused )

Active Ingredients in descending order 29% in total;

- Viotrozene 16%
- Almond Oil
- Nanosomes of Kinetin
- Matrixyl
- Ferulic Acid
- Grapeseed Extract
- Vitamin A
- Vitamin C
- vitamin E
- D-Panthenol (B)
- Gingko Biloba
- Chestnut Extract

Here's the link again! I don't know what the heck you have up there... Laughing

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/ds-laboratories-viterol-a-p_7303.htm

Zyggy you were not wrong with the ingredient listing your posted, you simply mixed up the Viterol-A product that the list is associated with. Your ingredient list is 100% correct for the Viterol-A Eyes & Mouth product, and is even posted directly on the DS Labratories website for anyone who would like to read it again Wink - www.divineskin.com/viterol/viterola.pdf

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:19 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
zyggy wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
The link is at the very top of my recipe post, and you can get it right here at EDS.. Price is fabulous, especially with the discount and cheapo shipping..

Check out this link for Viterol A Face;

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=31623
d'oh, I'm an idiot at times, or I just got to excited. =)

Here are the ingredients for that stuff,

WATER, GLYCERIN, ALOE BARBADENSIS LEAF JUICE, CUCUMBER EXTRACT, HYDROXYETHYLCELLULOSE, TIPEPTIDE-10 CITRULLINE, PALMITOYL TRIPEPTIDE-5, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, PALMITOYL OLIGOPEPTIDE, PALMITOYL TETRAPEPTIDE-3, ACETYL HEXAPEPTIDE-8, ACETYL TETRAPEPTIDE-5, UBIQUINONE, SODIUM ASCORBYL PHOSPHATE, CARBOMER, POLYSORBATE-20, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, PHENOXYETHANOL, CAPRYLYL GLYCOL, POTASSIUM SORBATE, HEXYLENE GLYCOL, LAVANDULA ANGUSTIFOLIA (LAVENDER) OIL, CITRUS AURANTIUM AMARA (BITTER ORANGE) FLOWER EXTRACT



NOT!

Here are the ingredients for Viterol A Face, (I don't know what the heck that is you posted.. Confused )

Active Ingredients in descending order 29% in total;

- Viotrozene 16%
- Almond Oil
- Nanosomes of Kinetin
- Matrixyl
- Ferulic Acid
- Grapeseed Extract
- Vitamin A
- Vitamin C
- vitamin E
- D-Panthenol (B)
- Gingko Biloba
- Chestnut Extract

Here's the link again! I don't know what the heck you have up there... Laughing

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/ds-laboratories-viterol-a-p_7303.htm

LOL - Girl, I don't know where you got your ingredient listing from for the Viterol-A Face Cream, but it happens to be completely WRONG (even your link to the EDS web store confirms this).

Viterol-A for Face does NOT contain Nanosomes of Kinetin or Matrixyl or Ferulic Acid at all!!! The correct ingredient listing, which is posted on the DS Labratories website, is:

Ingredients - Viterol-A Face Cream

Viatrozene 16% . Water, Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract, Hydrolyzed Casein, Glycerin, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Acacia, Senegal Gum, Sodium Pca, Tipeptide-10 Citrulline, Butylene Glycol, Sodium Lactate, Palmitoyl, Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-3, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-5, Acetyl Hexapeptide-8, Fructose, Pentapeptide-18, Glycine, Niacinamide, Xanthan Gum, Carbomer, Polysorbate-20, Inositol, Urea, Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Potassium Sorbate, Hexylene Glycol, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Plumeria Acutifolia Flower Extract

www.divineskin.com/viterol/viterola.pdf

Just thought I'd point out that both Viterol-A products contain "lye", in addition to a chemical preservative (Phenoxyethanol) that the FDA has issued warnings about in certain skincare products (if anyone is breast feeding, do not use Mommy's Bliss Nipple Cream! www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2008/new01839.html ).

Not that any of these ingredients bother me too much, but others who are sensitive to given chemicals may be affected and should take this list into consideration if they decide to use Viterol-A cream as a base for any DIY skincare projects.

***I also want to issue another warning to any PREGNANT women out there and that they should be aware that Viterol-A contains approximately 1% of pure Retinol***

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Kassy_A
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:28 pm      Reply with quote
ScotsLass wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
zyggy wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
The link is at the very top of my recipe post, and you can get it right here at EDS.. Price is fabulous, especially with the discount and cheapo shipping..

Check out this link for Viterol A Face;

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=31623
d'oh, I'm an idiot at times, or I just got to excited. =)

Here are the ingredients for that stuff,

WATER, GLYCERIN, ALOE BARBADENSIS LEAF JUICE, CUCUMBER EXTRACT, HYDROXYETHYLCELLULOSE, TIPEPTIDE-10 CITRULLINE, PALMITOYL TRIPEPTIDE-5, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, PALMITOYL OLIGOPEPTIDE, PALMITOYL TETRAPEPTIDE-3, ACETYL HEXAPEPTIDE-8, ACETYL TETRAPEPTIDE-5, UBIQUINONE, SODIUM ASCORBYL PHOSPHATE, CARBOMER, POLYSORBATE-20, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, PHENOXYETHANOL, CAPRYLYL GLYCOL, POTASSIUM SORBATE, HEXYLENE GLYCOL, LAVANDULA ANGUSTIFOLIA (LAVENDER) OIL, CITRUS AURANTIUM AMARA (BITTER ORANGE) FLOWER EXTRACT



NOT!

Here are the ingredients for Viterol A Face, (I don't know what the heck that is you posted.. Confused )

Active Ingredients in descending order 29% in total;

- Viotrozene 16%
- Almond Oil
- Nanosomes of Kinetin
- Matrixyl
- Ferulic Acid
- Grapeseed Extract
- Vitamin A
- Vitamin C
- vitamin E
- D-Panthenol (B)
- Gingko Biloba
- Chestnut Extract

Here's the link again! I don't know what the heck you have up there... Laughing

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/ds-laboratories-viterol-a-p_7303.htm

Zyggy you were not wrong with the ingredient listing your posted, you simply mixed up the Viterol-A product that the list is associated with. Your ingredient list is 100% correct for the Viterol-A Eyes & Mouth product, and is even posted directly on the DS Labratories website for anyone who would like to read it again Wink - www.divineskin.com/viterol/viterola.pdf



I guess you missed all the lengthy debates we had about the two distinctly different ingredient lists, advertised as the same product name.

The long and short is that the one you posted the ingredients for, is an old formulation that comes in a pump dispenser.. That is the one sold at the divine skin site, but the one we are all using is sold everywhere else..(Check it out on drugstore.com and here at EDS)

The one we are all using is in a little squeeze tube, and you can check it out right here at EDS; The ingredient list I posted is not only on the product box, but on the insert we all have, and is exactly as I posted it above.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/ds-laboratories-viterol-a-p_7303.htm

ETA: The link I provided before and now, is the product we are all using! You just arrived a little late to the party ... Wink

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:41 pm      Reply with quote
Well I suppose I should copy and paste the email I received this morning from DS Labratories in which they confirmed that the ingredient listing I just posted (and that is on their website) is accurate. I also asked about different ingredient lists and formulations and was told that I could email them with a "batch number", and they would be able to give me additional information.

Do you have a batch number on your tube or box? Did you talk directly with DS Labs about the different ingredient lists?

Quote:
Dear XXX,

Thank you for your email and your interest in DS Laboratories' products.

The full ingredient list for Viterol A - Face is below:

Viatrozene 16% .Water, Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract, Hydrolyzed Casein, Glycerin, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Acacia, Senegal Gum, Sodium Pca, Tipeptide-10 Citrulline, Butylene Glycol, Sodium Lactate, Palmitoyl, Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-3, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-5, Acetyl Hexapeptide-8, Fructose, Pentapeptide-18, Glycine, Niacinamide, Xanthan Gum, Carbomer, Polysorbate-20, Inositol, Urea, Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Potassium Sorbate, Hexylene Glycol, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Plumeria Acutifolia Flower Extract

Ingredient list for Viterol A - Eyes & Mouth:

Viatrozene gel 29%, Water, Glycerin, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cucumber Extract, Hydroxyethylcellulose,
Tipeptide-10 Citrulline, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-5, Butylene Glycol, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl, Tetrapeptide-3, Acetyl Hexapeptide-8, Acetyl Tetrapeptide-5, Ubiquinone, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Carbomer, Polysorbate-20, Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Potassium Sorbate, Hexylene Glycol, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Citrus Aurantium Amara (Bitter Orange), Flower Extract

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:09 pm      Reply with quote
This is one of many direct questions I emailed to DS Lab regarding the Viterol-A formulation, and the response I receieved from them today. I am referring to both Viterol-A Face and Eyes & Mouth products.

Quote:
Q) Has either product been reformulated in the last year at all? If so, how and why?

A) We occasionally make updates to the formula using the latest technologies available, so there may be slight changes in the appearance and texture of the product from time to time. If you ever feel the need to double check a product, you may email me with the batch number and I will confirm the production date with our Logistics department.


I took from this response that there wasn't any significant ingredient changes because my email to them was specifically about the many ingredient lists out there, and my request for the most current one.

Oh, and they directed me to EDS when I asked where I could buy these products in Canada.

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:10 pm      Reply with quote
I think if you take a read at this thread, things will be clearer.. We already went through all of this months ago;

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=31623

The product we are all using is the one in the squeeze tube, and the ingredients are clearly stated everywhere.. It is a violet colored gel type product.. The one you are referring to is a a thicker off white lotion, in a pump dispenser. The smell is entirely different, and the consistency is thicker.. (I got that one by accident from EDS, and they said it was one that was left over, and fell in with the new batch accidently.)

Rather than confuse the issue further here, for those that are happily using the one I recommended, perhaps we can continue further investigation in the Viterol thread that already has all this information.

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:25 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Alley wrote:
fawnie this was a great lesson as a very novice DIYer. I looked up the ingredients (the ones I could find) and tried to figure out what they were and what their purpose was. There are a lot of chemicals, preservatives and stuff to make the cream a nice texture. I am guessing it smells pretty good too.

Kassy here is what I think were the anti-oxidents
diacetyle boldine, Ergothioneine, Limonene, Geraniol. The other useful actives were retinol, ubiquinone (CQ10), Beta Glucan. Having little clue about this I would imagine the amino acids would also be helpful?


You pretty much have picked out the good things! (I don't have a clue what the 1st one is, I'd have to google that.)

If I were to be wanting to make a comparable body cream, based on the ZO ingredients posted above, I would use the following actives, and put it in the Gold Bond as a base:

Vitamin A + E (this would be 1 TBS palm oil)
Vitamin C (1 tsp MAP + or THDA) LAA wouldn't work for this!)
Lactic Acid
Glucosamine
Co Q 10
Algae Extract
Pure Opti-MSM (2 capsules dissolved in H2O

The best of the other nice ingredients are already in the GB!

For comparison sake, here are the ingredients for Gold Bond Ultimate Restoring Lotion;

Water, Hydroxyethyl Urea, Glycerin, Dimethicone, Jojoba Esters, Petrolatum, Glyceryl Stearate, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Methyl Gluceth 20, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Alcohol, Butyrospermum Parkii Extract (Shea Butter), Ubiquinone, Ceramide 2, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Cocodimonium Hydroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Niacinamide, Tocopheryl Acetate, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Retinyl Palmitate, PEG 10 Rapeseed Sterol, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Polysorbate 60, Stearamidopropyl PG Dimonium Chloride Phosphate, Propylene Glycol, Steareth 21, Diazolidinyl Urea, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Esters, EDTA, Propylparaben, Butylene Glycol, C12 15 Alkyl Benzoate, Tribehenin, Potassium Hydroxide

And the ingredients for the ZO Body Emulsion;

Aqua (Water), Lactic Acid, Glycerin, Stearic Acid, Cetyl Alcohol, Cyclopentasiloxane, Pentylene Glycol, Isoicosane, Dimethicone, Dipentaerythrityl Hexa C5-9 Acid Esters, Sodium Hydroxide, Glyceryl Stearate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Tridecyl Stearate, Neopentyl Glycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, Tridecyl Trimellitate, Retinol, PEG-100 Stearate, Sodium Lauroyl Glutamate, Glucosamine HC1, Algae Extract, Yeast Extract (Faex), Urea, Allyl Methacrylates Crosspolymer, Polysorbate 20, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil Unsaponifiables, Tocopheryl Acetate, Butylene Glycol, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Protein, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Diacetyl Boldine, Ergothioneine, Acetyl Tyrosine, Proline, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein, AdenosineTriphosphate, Beta-Glucan, Ubiquinone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Disodium EDTA, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Xanthan Gum, Phenoxyethanol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Citral, Geraniol, Parfum.


BTW, 13oz of the Gold Bond is about $10 bucks!


Alley; I have all the ingredients that I need to juice up the Gold Bond, so I'll keep you posted on the outcome!

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
ScotsLass
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:34 pm      Reply with quote
No problem - I'm just baffled why the DS Labs Customer Service people would be so incredibly negligent about knowing what the ingredients are in their products????? Especially when I emailed them and asked for the most current ingredient list, and went as far as to direct them to other websites selling their products with ingredient lists that are noticeably different (such as drugstore.com). I would hate to think that old formulations are still being sold and that DS Labs is misleading consumers about this in an attempt to liquidate old stock.

I also think an obvious link to the other Viterol-A conversations in the forum is important in this thread. This way those who are indeed *late to the party* Wink can gain a fuller understanding of what has transpired with this specific product.

Since people are attempting to use this as a DIY base (myself included), it is vital to know exactly what is in Viterol-A Face Cream. And IMHO, there should be obvious warnings about ingredients that could be harmful (to pregnant women, for example), so that newbies to DIY are alerted. Smile

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:49 pm      Reply with quote
I absolutely agree with all of the concerns you are now having..

In fact it was me, who was the first to recieve the product in the 'pump dispenser', with the entirely different formulation and ingredient list..

It was then I brought it to everybody's attention, and we all tried to get to the bottom of it. I believe Beth also wrote to Divine Skin, and had a carbon copy of the response you recieved.. We were all quite infuriated with all of this, just as you seem to be now.. I'm sorry to say though, that it remained quite up in the air, with no clear cut answers.

We all came to the conclusion, after really not getting any clear cut satisfactory answers, that the "Squeeze tube gel product" was the only one we were interested in using..(EDS and drugstore.com has this one, and EDS is aware of all that went on.) In fact, from my experience with googling it, the only site that has the other formulation is divineskinRX..

Just an FYI, I used the one I recieved by accident that you shared the ingredients to, and it wasn't nice at all.. unpleasant smell, irritated my skin, and didn't absorb even after 1 hour.. I never used it again!

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:50 pm      Reply with quote
I need at least a couple of things but I have a couple of questions. Is the glucosamine the N-acely glucosamine powder? What is THDA?

BTW: I am actually really liking my extra thick c serum, I know it is working because I get that little tingle Very Happy

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:18 pm      Reply with quote
You can get the Glucosamine powder from Skinactives or just about anywhere.. Just follow the amount they suggest for 4oz (or whatever volume you want.)

THDA is Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, and is the oil soluble form of vitamin C... This, and/or MAP, would be best in body creams, because they don't need the acidic (3.5 ph) that LAA needs!

Many times I see L-Ascorbic Acid in an ingredient listing when it absolutely will have NO value because of the formulation.

Here's a few facts about LAA;

- It's the best form of vitamin C for the skin all around

- It's the most unstable on it's own (but vitamin E and Ferulic Acid help in that regard)

- It will ONLY penetrate to the deepest dermal layer (where the collagen lives), if it's in a formulation that is 3.5 ph or less ...

- It takes a full hour to penetrate the epidermis, and up to 12 hours to get to the cells

- The effects are most definitely cumulative, and once absorbed into the skin cannot be washed or scrubbed off

When you guys want to kick your C serum up a notch, you can make a batch that incorporates L-Ascorbic Acid, (10%) Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (7%). vitamin E 1% and Ferulic Acid .5% (And a little vitamin A, only if you trust me implicitly.. Anxious , and are willing to experiment a bit..) Having virgin palm oil on hand would be a step in the right direction though.. Laughing Laughing Laughing )

Now that will be a humdinger of a C serum, that feeds both the lipid and water parts of our lovely little cells..

Okay, now I really need to get out of here, and go do my STOP treatment... Later Kiddie's!

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:49 pm      Reply with quote
Clearly DS has two forms floating around of the Viteral A for face - One of them is the Cream formula and the other is a gel.

The product listing that Scottslass has is for the cream (the one Kassy didnt' care for). And the gel is the other - the good one. So of course DS labs has both lists floating around.

and yes this was a major discussion point. I almost bought the wrong stuff until Kassy steered me right. The gel product is the bomb. And the C-serum of Kassy's is awesome. I almost can't believe how good.
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:55 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
When you guys want to kick your C serum up a notch, you can make a batch that incorporates L-Ascorbic Acid, (10%) Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (7%). vitamin E 1% and Ferulic Acid .5% (And a little vitamin A, only if you trust me implicitly.. Anxious , and are willing to experiment a bit..) Having virgin palm oil on hand would be a step in the right direction though.. Laughing Laughing Laughing )

Now that will be a humdinger of a C serum, that feeds both the lipid and water parts of our lovely little cells..


Question then: Would you add the Tetrahex, vit E, Ferulic acid and the vitamine a to the original Viteral A/LAA formula?
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:48 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:

Question then: Would you add the Tetrahex, vit E, Ferulic acid and the vitamine a to the original Viteral A/LAA formula?


No Sis, I would recommend a whole new recipe for this...

As I always say, it's good to change things up a bit, so this could be your next venture!

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:10 pm      Reply with quote
Okay - a whole new formula it shall be. Fortunately I have a friend who knows about such things.
Laughing
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:34 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Sis,

What is the recipe for this Kickass Kassy's Viterol/LAA serum you made?

You used the GEL Viterol, right? Did you have to specify to EDS that you want the GEL?

Is the final serum slippery and thin like a serum or more like a gel or a cream???

I want it too!!!
love
fawnie

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:19 pm      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
Hi Sis,

What is the recipe for this Kickass Kassy's Viterol/LAA serum you made?

You used the GEL Viterol, right? Did you have to specify to EDS that you want the GEL?

Is the final serum slippery and thin like a serum or more like a gel or a cream???

I want it too!!!
love
fawnie


Here ya go fawnie;

Kassy's Kickass Concoction ... Laughing Laughing Laughing (It will be a nice consistency serum)

What you need;

- Amber or dark colored 1oz dropper bottle
- Ascorbic Acid crystals or powder
- Distilled water
- Vitamin E capsule
- Viterol A for Face (It has vitamin A + Ferulic acid already in there, and the PH is low.. It will give you a perfectly lovely C serum)

Recipe for 15% 1oz Vitamin C serum; (Do not be tempted to increase the %, it isn't necessary!)

- 1 tsp Ascorbic Acid powder or crystals
- 3 tsp Distilled water
- 2 tsp Viterol A (If you only use this for formulating, you'll have enough to make a years worth of serums!)
- 1/4 tsp vitamin E (or 2 gelcaps in a pinch)

Here's how to do it;

Use two shot glasses. In one measure in 1 tsp of Ascorbic Acid, then add the 3 tsp of distilled water to it. Stir a bit, and allow to dissolve completely (5 to 10 minutes).

In the other shot glass, measure in the 2 tsp of Viterol A, then squeeze in the 2 Vitamin E capsule contents and mix this thouroughly.

Once the Ascorbic Acid has "fully" dissolved in the first shot glass, you'll combine the two. Stir well, and carefully pour into your 1oz bottle..

It is a very stable formulation, and will remain so if kept out of heat and direct light. It will last 2 to 3 months depending on how liberally you use it.


Since the Viterol A problem seems to be rearing it's ugly head again, here is an adjustment, for those who don't want to deal with the V..

Leave out the 2 tsp of V and replace with;

1 tsp glycerin
1 tsp SKB
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid

Do the mixing the same as above with the glycerin, SKB and Ferulic as step 2, the water and LAA as step 1, then incorporate together when LAA has fully dissolved.. Really mix and dissolve each step well, before putting together..
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:58 am      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Clearly DS has two forms floating around of the Viteral A for face - One of them is the Cream formula and the other is a gel.

The product listing that Scottslass has is for the cream (the one Kassy didnt' care for). And the gel is the other - the good one. So of course DS labs has both lists floating around.

and yes this was a major discussion point. I almost bought the wrong stuff until Kassy steered me right. The gel product is the bomb. And the C-serum of Kassy's is awesome. I almost can't believe how good.

I'm pretty confident that the cream/lotion version of "V" that Kassy didn't like contains the exact same ingredients as the desired gel version. The only difference between the two was the color & texture (if you go by what the box/container/insert said). Oh, and the cream/lotion version comes in a PUMP bottle, not a squeeze tube. I think Kassy was the one to confirm this in other thread...?

I honestly don't know what the color and consistency or container is of the ingredient/formulation I posted. It's quite the mystery at this point! Smile

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:49 am      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
I absolutely agree with all of the concerns you are now having..

In fact it was me, who was the first to recieve the product in the 'pump dispenser', with the entirely different formulation and ingredient list..

It was then I brought it to everybody's attention, and we all tried to get to the bottom of it. I believe Beth also wrote to Divine Skin, and had a carbon copy of the response you recieved.. We were all quite infuriated with all of this, just as you seem to be now.. I'm sorry to say though, that it remained quite up in the air, with no clear cut answers.

We all came to the conclusion, after really not getting any clear cut satisfactory answers, that the "Squeeze tube gel product" was the only one we were interested in using..(EDS and drugstore.com has this one, and EDS is aware of all that went on.) In fact, from my experience with googling it, the only site that has the other formulation is divineskinRX..

Just an FYI, I used the one I received by accident that you shared the ingredients to, and it wasn't nice at all.. unpleasant smell, irritated my skin, and didn't absorb even after 1 hour.. I never used it again!

I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this ingredient issue one way or another as the discrepancy is huge and just doesn't make any sense from a business perspective. You can't buy anything directly from DS Labs (Divineskin.com), and they will direct you to their resellers if you try. So it is really bizarre that so many versions of the two creams are available for sale via their reseller channel, yet they know nothing about this. Confused

Just so I am clear here, are you saying that you received a container of "V" that had the ingredient listing I posted above? Because I definitely missed this in the other thread, if this is the case! I thought the other discussion referenced a cream/lotion version that was circulating in a pump bottle, but that it had the exact same ingredients as the desired gel product. Is this incorrect?

I'm now confused about what cream/lotion version of "V" you were testing as a base for your Vit-C serum (as mentioned in the other thread)? This is the one that you said turned out nicely in your experiment, with the exception that it didn't absorb as fast as when you used the gel as your base?

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:13 am      Reply with quote
Oh poop - I didn't catch the edit button before it expired. Confused Anyway, this is the post I am referring to from the Ingredient discussion.

On Dec., 9th, 2008 Kassy_A wrote:
These are the ingredients on my both of my Viterol A for Face containers, and the packaging "insert"

DS Laboratories Viterol.A Lotion for Signs of Aging, General Face Area

Viatrozene gel 16% Deionized Water, Almond Oil, Nanosomes of Kinetin, Matryxil, Ferulic Acid, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, D Panthenol, Gingko Biloba, Chestnut and Witch Hazel, Gaba, Propylene Glycol, Polysorbate 80, Triethanolamine, Carbomer, Methylparaben

I'm really not sure what to make of the ingredient conflict.. What I can tell you is both of my orders, had the same literature and ingredients listed. One was a squeeze tube with a violet gel, and the last one I recieved was a white lotion in a pump bottle... Ingredients on bottles and inserts are identical, and exactly what I entered above.

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:34 am      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
You can get the Glucosamine powder from Skinactives or just about anywhere.. Just follow the amount they suggest for 4oz (or whatever volume you want.)

THDA is Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, and is the oil soluble form of vitamin C... This, and/or MAP, would be best in body creams, because they don't need the acidic (3.5 ph) that LAA needs!

Many times I see L-Ascorbic Acid in an ingredient listing when it absolutely will have NO value because of the formulation.

Here's a few facts about LAA;

- It's the best form of vitamin C for the skin all around

- It's the most unstable on it's own (but vitamin E and Ferulic Acid help in that regard)

- It will ONLY penetrate to the deepest dermal layer (where the collagen lives), if it's in a formulation that is 3.5 ph or less ...

- It takes a full hour to penetrate the epidermis, and up to 12 hours to get to the cells

- The effects are most definitely cumulative, and once absorbed into the skin cannot be washed or scrubbed off

When you guys want to kick your C serum up a notch, you can make a batch that incorporates L-Ascorbic Acid, (10%) Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (7%). vitamin E 1% and Ferulic Acid .5% (And a little vitamin A, only if you trust me implicitly.. Anxious , and are willing to experiment a bit..) Having virgin palm oil on hand would be a step in the right direction though.. Laughing Laughing Laughing )

Now that will be a humdinger of a C serum, that feeds both the lipid and water parts of our lovely little cells..

Okay, now I really need to get out of here, and go do my STOP treatment... Later Kiddie's!


Of course we trust you but how much palm oil should I warm just in case Razz

If it takes 1 hr for the c to absorb, when I only wait about 1 minute bet'n c-serum (it feels absorbed) and anti-aging cream am I defeating the c-serum?

Next ? - I thought you couldn't put C with A or at least retin A.

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:36 am      Reply with quote
ScotsLass is on a mission!!!

Look out DS Labs you don't mess the EDS girls. Shame on you

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:17 am      Reply with quote
Scots Lass, in all I purchased Viterol A 3 times. Twice I received the violet gel in the squeeze tube, and once I recieved a whitish lotion in a pump bottle.. Ingredients are identical on both insets and containers..

With that said, the consistency and smell of each is quite different, and the one in the pump bottle irritated my skin (I believe it was the fragrance!)

The ingredient list Zyggy posted was and remains a complete mystery all of us.

Personally I am sick of the subject, and wish I never shared it at this point.. Suffice it to say, I recommend and prefer the gel variety in the squeeze tube, and have never wavered from that opinion.

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Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:24 am      Reply with quote
Alley, wait at least 15 minutes to apply anything after the Vitamin C.

I incorporate the Viterol A in with the C serum with the following stipulation, as I said from the beginning.. Allow it to completely absorb, before going outdoors.. (Light degrades vitamin A, which is why all A products are directed to be used at night.) The Viterol has a nanosome delivery system, which pushes it deep and fast into the dermis, so I feel it is good/safe in this particular C serum recipe.

Anytime you can incorporate vitamins A, B, C + E into a serum, you are well on your way to great skin!

More on the palm oil later, have to get to sonny boy's house now!

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