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Bippie
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:13 am      Reply with quote
Hey Girls,

Maybe a silly question but if I make the serum exactly as prescribed, do I still need to check the PH balance?

Thanks! Confused
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:27 am      Reply with quote
Lacy53

Thank you for the links!

Actually, I did not explain the situation very well. My computer is in my studio that only has natural light from 2 small windows so I have these full spectrum lamps all over the place. The lamp on my desk is directly at the side of my monitor so I'm staring at it all day (or far too much of it).

I thought that given full spectrum bulbs were (near) natural sunlight that it may be significant. By afternoon my cheeks are flaming red and warm.

This didn't happen before I started Retin A just last month. I just became aware of the possible connection late last night and I sent the question to Kassy.
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:50 am      Reply with quote
Zoftig wrote:
Lacy53

Thank you for the links!

Actually, I did not explain the situation very well. My computer is in my studio that only has natural light from 2 small windows so I have these full spectrum lamps all over the place. The lamp on my desk is directly at the side of my monitor so I'm staring at it all day (or far too much of it).

I thought that given full spectrum bulbs were (near) natural sunlight that it may be significant. By afternoon my cheeks are flaming red and warm.

This didn't happen before I started Retin A just last month. I just became aware of the possible connection late last night and I sent the question to Kassy.


Maybe you can read the article linked to below to understand a bit more about full spectrum lighting. I don't know exactly what kind of lights you have, but the article suggests only a few include ultraviolet wavelengths. Generally visible light is safe for skin; normally UV is considered unhealthy. But a small band of UV light is necessary for the synthesis of vitamin D. I am not sure what kind of full spectrum lighting you have.

http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/fullspectrum/lightSources.asp

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Zoftig
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:20 am      Reply with quote
Lacy

So...I read the link and I'm scratching my head.... "Lacy, you got some 'splainin to do!" (sorry, couldn't help that bit of humor).

I have no idea the make of this swing arm desk lamp - it was a Costco buy and very cheap. The bulb is a T4 rated 13 Watt fluorescent. According to your link it is an under the counter bulb.

Since I've probably high-jacked this thread longer than even the most patient can endure, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks,
Jan
Bippie
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:13 am      Reply with quote
Kassy,
Can I use a plastic amber bottle instead of glass for the serum?
Skippie
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:01 pm      Reply with quote
Skippie wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
Skippie wrote:
Quote:
1oz 15%, C, E + Ferulic

Will last 8 weeks or so.. It is very stable,
(The vit E, SKB + FA all make it very stable!)

What you need for 1oz C,E, Ferulic 15%;
- 2 glass shot glasses
- 1oz cobalt or amber dropper or pump bottle
- 1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
- 1/4 tsp (1 ml) Vitamin E (equals 1%)
- .5% of Ferulic Acid (1 good pinch)
- 2 tsp SKB (Sea Kelp Bioferment)
- 3 + 1/2 tsp of distilled water
- 1/2 tsp of vodka (don't laugh, you need it to dissolve the FA so it's not gritty, and it also keeps the ph low enough!)


Kassy,

Do you think it would be ok if I added some Phloretin to your recipe?

Thanks.



You could add the 'phloretin' to just about any simple water based L-AA serum at a 2% concentration...

Why not follow Skinceuticals lead, and make yourself a DIY copycat version... Very Happy

- 2% Phloretin
- .5% Ferulic Acid
- 10% L-Ascorbic Acid
- 85% Distilled Water
- The remainder is a combination of Dipropylene Glycol, Alcohol Denatured, Butylene Glycol and Triethyl Citrate.

Actually Skinceutical's has more than 10% each of the DG and AD, but for doing this fresh at home, I don't see any reason why the harsher chemical agents can't be cut down.

If I were making this I would use just enough butylene glycol to get the job done, a little vodka and citric acid. (Triethyl Citrate is an ester of Citric Acid.) In Skinceutical's formulation I have no doubt the CA is utilized to bring the pH down to probably 2.5


Thanks Kassy - I actually have all the ingredients in Skinceutical's product, because I had thought I would try to replicate it. But then I decided it would be easier to follow your recipe. Now that you've given me percentages, I think I might just be able to manage it. And it would be a shame not to use the ingredients I bought considering I have very large bottles of them. Thanks again - your help is always appreciated.


So here's my phloretin recipe (which is really just a few adjustments to Kassy's recipe):

1 tsp LAA
¼ tsp phloretin
Good pinch ferulic acid
3 + ½ tsp distilled water
½ tsp denatured alcohol
½ tsp diproplyene glycol
½ tsp triethyl citrate

I dissolved the LAA in the distilled water and the FA and phloretin in the denatured alcohol. Then I added the DG and TC to the alcohol, and dumped the two mixtures together.

Either the FA or the phloretin didn't completely dissolve and I'm not sure why. But I do like the end result. It's perfect for my combo skin.
Bippie
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:35 pm      Reply with quote
Bippie wrote:
Kassy,
Can I use a plastic amber bottle instead of glass for the serum?


Someone let me know so I can make my serum.
sister sweets
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:14 pm      Reply with quote
Bippie - all the C serums I have used are in glass - I'd suggest getting some glass bottles. specialtybottle.com has lots to choose from.

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Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:21 pm      Reply with quote
Bippie,
I found some nice glass dropper bottles at the local health food store.
Lacy53
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:29 pm      Reply with quote
Bippie wrote:
Bippie wrote:
Kassy,
Can I use a plastic amber bottle instead of glass for the serum?


Someone let me know so I can make my serum.


From Page 36 of this thread:

DarkMoon wrote:


rehner wrote:
i am new to the diy scene. I've been using Vivier Vit C & E Serum but am going to attempt to make one of Kassy's recipes. My question is the amber bottles I purchased have plastic dropper tops. Will the plastic harm the serum. Originally I thought I was getting bottles with full glass droppers. I'm ready to make but will wait to hear from an experienced diyer.




Welcome rehner,

All my bottles (dropper) have always come with a glass dropper, but the top is plastic and many have plastic squeeze bulbs which are difficult to keep from ever contacting the serum inside! I am not aware of any interaction between ascorbic acid and plastic! There are so many different plastics it would seem if they were sold for DIY purposes then they should be fine!
DM

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sister sweets
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:40 pm      Reply with quote
I wonder why I've never seen a C serum packaged in plastic containers if it's okay.

Who is the source of saying the plastic is okay? I would rather be certain and keep mine in glass.

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Bippie
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:03 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks to all who answered so quickly! God Bless! Very Happy
Kassy_A
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Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:20 pm      Reply with quote
Skippie; If you whip that up again, next time add the triethyl citrate (citric acid) to the water phase, as it's water soluble.

Using to shot glasses would work nicely!

Bippie + Zoftig; I've answered your PM's. (Sorry it took so long Smile )

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Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:35 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Bippie + Zoftig; I've answered your PM's. (Sorry it took so long Smile )


I have a PM to ya too, Kassy! (Hope you have time for mine Wink)

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Kassy_A
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Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:00 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
Bippie + Zoftig; I've answered your PM's. (Sorry it took so long Smile )


I have a PM to ya too, Kassy! (Hope you have time for mine Wink)



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yours is like a 5 part answer, so I'm getting the rest out of the way 1st... Wink

You're 1st on my list after din-din (which is in dire need of my attention BTW), so I'll be back later.

I could never forget you Honey-Bun! Very Happy

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:22 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
[ Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yours is like a 5 part answer, so I'm getting the rest out of the way 1st... Wink

You're 1st on my list after din-din (which is in dire need of my attention BTW), so I'll be back later.

I could never forget you Honey-Bun! Very Happy


You're a peach Kassy! Tanx

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Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:35 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Skippie; If you whip that up again, next time add the triethyl citrate (citric acid) to the water phase, as it's water soluble.



There seems to be some confusion about triethyl citrate and citric acid. The only information I could find on triethyl citrate was from SNOWDRIFT FARM and it stated this:

Quote:
Citroflex-2 (triethyl citrate) is produced by esterification of citric acid with ethanol. It has a wide variety of uses in cosmetics. It may be used as solvent, diluent and fixative by the perfumers; It may also be used in incense applications since its flash point is very high. Citroflex can also be used to stabilize Hydrovance against problems resulting from pH drift in the product. Triethyl citrate provides buffering activity that controls the pH to a fairly narrow range and prevents Hydrovance from discoloring. Use 0.5% Citroflex 2 for this application. Add to the water phase after adding the hydrovance in this application. Triethyl citrate is soluble in oils, alcohol and fragrance materials. It is not water soluble.


If you are speaking of Acetyl Triethyl Citrate, CosmeticsInfo describes this as an ester of citric acid which may be used as plasticizers for film-forming ingredients and also as may also be used as skin conditioning agents - emollients.

Citric acid is used in cosmetics and personal care products to preserve products by chelating (complexing) with metals, and to adjust the acid/base balance. Citric Acid may also be used to impart a lemon-like fragrance to cosmetics and personal care products. It is an Acidulant (useful to adjust pH of products to make them more acid) and at high concentration shows typical AHA properties (moisturizing, peeling, smoothing, anti-wrinkle effects). For safe use do not use at >10% or at pH <3.5. Citric acid is water soluble.

HTH

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:37 pm      Reply with quote
Hi! I just wanted to mention that I purchased a new batch of Ferulic Acid. This time I ordered from Bulk Actives. This product is MUCH better than what I received from Skinactives. The Skinactives FA had hard clumps in it and wouldn't dissolve no matter what I did to it. I always had white flakes floating around in my serum. The Bulk Actives version is clump free and dissolved within seconds. No more white flakes!

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:44 pm      Reply with quote
Tonia wrote:
Hi! I just wanted to mention that I purchased a new batch of Ferulic Acid. This time I ordered from Bulk Actives. This product is MUCH better than what I received from Skinactives. The Skinactives FA had hard clumps in it and wouldn't dissolve no matter what I did to it. I always had white flakes floating around in my serum. The Bulk Actives version is clump free and dissolved within seconds. No more white flakes!


Glad to hear you found a better supplier for the ingredient, I know that was very frustrating! Smile

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Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:57 pm      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
Skippie; If you whip that up again, next time add the triethyl citrate (citric acid) to the water phase, as it's water soluble.



There seems to be some confusion about triethyl citrate and citric acid. The only information I could find on triethyl citrate was from SNOWDRIFT FARM and it stated this:

Quote:
Citroflex-2 (triethyl citrate) is produced by esterification of citric acid with ethanol. It has a wide variety of uses in cosmetics. It may be used as solvent, diluent and fixative by the perfumers; It may also be used in incense applications since its flash point is very high. Citroflex can also be used to stabilize Hydrovance against problems resulting from pH drift in the product. Triethyl citrate provides buffering activity that controls the pH to a fairly narrow range and prevents Hydrovance from discoloring. Use 0.5% Citroflex 2 for this application. Add to the water phase after adding the hydrovance in this application. Triethyl citrate is soluble in oils, alcohol and fragrance materials. [b]It is not water soluble.[/b]


If you are speaking of Acetyl Triethyl Citrate, CosmeticsInfo describes this as an ester of citric acid which may be used as plasticizers for film-forming ingredients and also as may also be used as skin conditioning agents - emollients.

Citric acid is used in cosmetics and personal care products to preserve products by chelating (complexing) with metals, and to adjust the acid/base balance. Citric Acid may also be used to impart a lemon-like fragrance to cosmetics and personal care products. It is an Acidulant (useful to adjust pH of products to make them more acid) and at high concentration shows typical AHA properties (moisturizing, peeling, smoothing, anti-wrinkle effects). For safe use do not use at >10% or at pH <3.5. Citric acid is water soluble.

HTH



I suppose if we search long enough, we can find many conflicting or contradictory statements.

Anyhoo, I prefer the "US Pharmacopeia" as my source which states; "soluble in water, miscible with alcohol".

http://www.pharmacopeia.cn/v29240/usp29nf24s0_alpha-2-32.html

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:19 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Lacy53 wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
Skippie; If you whip that up again, next time add the triethyl citrate (citric acid) to the water phase, as it's water soluble.



There seems to be some confusion about triethyl citrate and citric acid. The only information I could find on triethyl citrate was from SNOWDRIFT FARM and it stated this:

Quote:
Citroflex-2 (triethyl citrate) is produced by esterification of citric acid with ethanol. It has a wide variety of uses in cosmetics. It may be used as solvent, diluent and fixative by the perfumers; It may also be used in incense applications since its flash point is very high. Citroflex can also be used to stabilize Hydrovance against problems resulting from pH drift in the product. Triethyl citrate provides buffering activity that controls the pH to a fairly narrow range and prevents Hydrovance from discoloring. Use 0.5% Citroflex 2 for this application. Add to the water phase after adding the hydrovance in this application. Triethyl citrate is soluble in oils, alcohol and fragrance materials. [b]It is not water soluble.[/b]


If you are speaking of Acetyl Triethyl Citrate, CosmeticsInfo describes this as an ester of citric acid which may be used as plasticizers for film-forming ingredients and also as may also be used as skin conditioning agents - emollients.

Citric acid is used in cosmetics and personal care products to preserve products by chelating (complexing) with metals, and to adjust the acid/base balance. Citric Acid may also be used to impart a lemon-like fragrance to cosmetics and personal care products. It is an Acidulant (useful to adjust pH of products to make them more acid) and at high concentration shows typical AHA properties (moisturizing, peeling, smoothing, anti-wrinkle effects). For safe use do not use at >10% or at pH <3.5. Citric acid is water soluble.

HTH



I suppose if we search long enough, we can find many conflicting or contradictory statements.


Keep on cookin' Kassy. Very Happy

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Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:28 pm      Reply with quote
Hi,

Planning to make up one of Kassy's Vit C serum recipes tomm. & had a question.

For anyone who is using the one with jojoba oil could you please tell me what the pH is?

(I know that may be in here -but God only knows where!)

TIA
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Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:16 am      Reply with quote
Hi Kassy,

I am making the recipe for the C Serum with jojoba oil. I am getting everything in today except the jojoba oil, which is coming from another shipper Sad. I am too impatient to wait for it and would like to know if any of the following oils would work, since I have these on hand:


olive
almond
avocado
rosehip seed
coconut

If not, then I guess I will have to wait, but that is so hard! haha

Thank you!
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Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:30 pm      Reply with quote
gumdropday wrote:
Hi Kassy,

I am making the recipe for the C Serum with jojoba oil. I am getting everything in today except the jojoba oil, which is coming from another shipper Sad. I am too impatient to wait for it and would like to know if any of the following oils would work, since I have these on hand:


olive
almond
avocado
rosehip seed
coconut

If not, then I guess I will have to wait, but that is so hard! haha

Thank you!


All of the above would *work* but rosehip has a huge amount of vitamin E. Keep in mind it has a strong color, and your finished serum will reflect that. I've used rosehip with no problems, as have a few other users I know of.

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:00 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you Kassy!

I had a hard time finding dark glass bottles, but just went to Dollar Tree and found steak sauce in black glass bottles! They are a bit too big, but will work once I get them sterile.

Can't wait to get my first batch made Smile
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