At what age do Facial Exercises give people an edge
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free skin care · Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:52 am

I am wondering at what age facial exercisers noticed that they were seeing results over their non-exercising age-group peers.

It seems like if you start exercising at a very young age, like late twenties, I don't think you generally look much younger or toner than your peers because you are all looking pretty young. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on when that starts to change? By mid-thirties? Forties? I know many of us who started exercising before we really needed it were hoping it was an "insurance" of sorts in long term facial skin and muscle health, and we went forward on this faith without seeing the immediate and big changes other exercisers who started later may have noticed.

free skin care · Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:11 am

Hi Jen

I just wanted to share my experience, which is perhaps a little broader than most because I train people in facial exercises. Actually younger people do tend to have faster results because they are usually having different goals or targets, and usually have got to undo major sagging or many years worth of sun damage, and generally speaking their bodies and faces are quite responsive and quick to show results. So I’ve often found (and you will find this on our forum) that at times younger people tend to have faster changes like noticing changes in skin tone, or cheeks getting higher, brows becoming higher, eyes looking less hooded etc.

Now I’ve also worked with people in their middle years (a term I personally hate) and above who don’t appear to get results as fast, but generally are starting off with different goals and want to undo damage, sagging etc. Whats most interesting is that whilst they see the younger ones getting faster results, often times at the end of their first year of training their results are so much more dramatic because they have made major changes and look like different people. Sure the results were slower, but they achieve a much more drastic transformation.

Its interesting when you sahy that “I don’t think you generally look much younger or toned than your peers because you are all pretty young” well sadly its so often the case that even youngsters are highly critical of themselves and don’t see it the same way you do.

When does it start to change, well it’s a difficult one to judge because it depends where you start off from, your goals, your general health/diet/lifestyle etc.

Just food for thought.

Sean

free skin care · Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:31 am

Although I've done facial exercises on and off in my twenties, I started to be consistent in my late thirties. FlexEffect is the backbone to my program, along with some microcurrent thrown in and retin-a.

I started seeing the results in my mid forties. I am now in my fifties. Time marches on and while I do not look young as in twenty years younger, I strive for youthful.

So to answer your question, for me it was in my mid forties that I felt I had a bit of an edge. Really by just being consistent in my self-care.

free skin care · Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:53 pm

Yes, it's a good question and takes me right into the depths of why we are working on this at all. All this study, effort and expense, and do we look any better than we would have if we'd done nothing? I'd say: better (smoother, healthier) yes; younger: maybe not much.

Perhaps our best indications are relatives? Thinking of our how our mother/father/uncle/aunt looked at our current age?

To me, however hard Deb Crowley and Carolyn of CFF etc work, however wrinkle-free they are, however wonderful they are in so many ways, somehow they do not look like women in their 20s or 30s or perhaps even 40s. Nor do they claim to. But compare them to other women in their 60s.

I've been looking at the FE 3 DVD just yesterday, trying to put my finger on it. Deb looks amazing, not a wrinkle on her, no flabbiness etc. But somehow one can tell her age really. And maybe that's just fine: a strong, beautiful, well-maintained woman.

How weird would it be, anyway, to look 25 at age 50 beside a 50 or 60 year old husband Shock

?! Or for 20+ wee boys to make moves on us Shock

??!! Or to be one of those women who want to look the same age as their 20+ daughters?

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:58 am

For me, facial exercises aren’t about appearing to be 20 or 30, but instead about being the best and most healthiest you can be at whatever age you are at. Comparison is always something that people are regularly taught to do – but its completely meaningless and always done from a place where you make yourself right or wrong against someone else. What a waste of energy and a pointless endeavour. When you switch to a goal of being the best and most healthiest you can be, then you are in a much less judgmental place and one where you are truly in power because you have so many choices and options available to work with. When you do comparison, if you don’t end up looking like the person you are comparing yourself to or you don’t get the same results usually there is stresses and strains over that not happening.

This is one of the reasons why I work in the way I do in looking at what factors are impacting a whole person, not just their face (although that’s a starting point) because I know when people take away stresses and strains and challenges automatically they start to feel better, which has the effect of making them look better too.

Its interesting your comment re Deb and the dvd and being able to tell her age. As I know a lot of 60 year olds, and 70 and 80 year olds and to me I don’t ever label people by their age because it is a number that I don’t give much significance to.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:40 pm

I would recommend that most people start in their mid- to late-twenties. If you do that, you'll start seeing a competitive advantage in your mid-thirties, because that's the time when the first indications of sag, drier skin, volume loss, puffy faces, etc., shows up. I was actually thinking that now that I'm in my mid-thirties, I can finally see that all that work has paid off in terms of anti-aging (not just getting a less thin face).

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:54 pm

I have noticed, though, that some young people or those without wrinkles, complain about over-building and looking older/more crepey. I think Nonie might be an example - she really looked perfect, then found that FE caused her to form crepey 'sausages' under her eyes - clearly she built muscle very easily and the FE programme was to intense for her.

But in our 30s or 40s, some of us really see our faces deteriorating and may take a more 'nothing to lose' approach, happy to see any improvements, not risking the perfection of youthful skin. In my case even putting up with a few more lines I suspect (crows feet I didn't have before) for the sake of keeping my cheekbone area from looking full and high. That's where needling comes in for me, to get the best of both worlds.

So I guess I'm saying: if you do want to do 'preventative' facial exercising when you're young and your skin still perfect, don't overdo it! Perhaps the main advantage would be that when the time comes to increase the intensity (ie to replace subcutaneous fat), you'll find it easier than starting from scratch at 39 or 45.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:04 pm

Sean, agreed, age is very difficult to tell. I live in a country with a lot of Chinese and Korean and Polynesian people, and they are blessed with excellent subcutenous fat and smooth skin and better inbuilt sun protection than caucasians, so I'm used to knowing that a full, smooth face does not mean youth.

I'm sure you noted that my comments about Deb's DVD were not disrespectful of her beauty of or her achievements. Just saying that we can't expect to ever look really 'young' again, and I guess it's something I'm coming to terms with myself...

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:16 pm

One thing I have noticed is that the concept of the face being fluid and dynamic has been the most hopeful and empowering thing I have learned in relation to my body. No longer are we at the mercy of the doctor or the product pushers. We *can* reverse something or improve something (within reason), and all we need are our hands and the right mindset.

One thing I have noticed, as I am in my mid-thirties now too, is that I have less crows feet than my equally-aged counterparts (thank you lower eye massage and exercises), and, because of daily facial cross stretching, massage and some exercises, my NL lines, which I noticed first at the age of 27 are probably just slightly more noticeable almost 8 years later. My sister is 8 years younger than me, and in that department, we are probably the same (and she looks young for her age).

I looked into facial exercises around 30 after I tried injectables for the NL area and had a horrible, lumpy reaction. Plus on some level it felt so wrong to inject that stuff into my face.

But, most of my friends still have nicely toned faces, so I am not seeing much difference there, but I am pretty light-handed on the exercising right now. No heavy lifting yet Smile

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:37 am

Hi Needl

Actually that isn't a good example.

Her story timeline isn't consistent. Her photo claims that she damaged her face in Nov 2005, but if you look at the FlexEffect forum, she never ever mentioned ANY problems on the Flexeffect forum, nor did she EVER ask for help. On the forums, she made it sound like everything was going well for her and that she was experimenting here and there.

Deb has actually done a lot of work exposing some of the stuff she's written, but this is the key element for me:

"I believe the REAL REASON for the problems with Nonie's eyes and facial puffiness was fat and also a combination of her food sensitivities and allergies"

There's a whole thread on the general forum "Nonie's Eyes... On Carolyn's Facial Fitness"

Needl wrote:

I think Nonie might be an example - she really looked perfect, then found that FE caused her to form crepey 'sausages' under her eyes - clearly she built muscle very easily and the FE programme was to intense for her.

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:46 am

I started them in my 50's after a lot of weight loss, and I do wish I had started them earlier, but here's my take on it - I don't think they are wise for youngsters to do if they are under 30. I say this because I have seen so many of them have issues from a variety of programs, and I like to use the old saying if it aint broke don't try to fix it because often times I've read horror stories. If people are willing to take the risk then that's their shout but just my take on things

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:13 am

TheresaMary wrote:

Hi Needl

Actually that isn't a good example.

Her story timeline isn't consistent. Her photo claims that she damaged her face in Nov 2005, but if you look at the FlexEffect forum, she never ever mentioned ANY problems on the Flexeffect forum, nor did she EVER ask for help. On the forums, she made it sound like everything was going well for her and that she was experimenting here and there.

Deb has actually done a lot of work exposing some of the stuff she's written, but this is the key element for me:

"I believe the REAL REASON for the problems with Nonie's eyes and facial puffiness was fat and also a combination of her food sensitivities and allergies"

There's a whole thread on the general forum "Nonie's Eyes... On Carolyn's Facial Fitness"

Needl wrote:

I think Nonie might be an example - she really looked perfect, then found that FE caused her to form crepey 'sausages' under her eyes - clearly she built muscle very easily and the FE programme was to intense for her.

Hi Need1

Below is a post by Nonie found on the *Shape Your Face* forum (Tom Hagerty) Nowhere on his forum will you find a post by Nonie saying FlexE messed-up her eyes (rolls under her eyes)

Reason for this: Nonie knows anyone with a trained eye regarding facial exercise (what is possible and what is NOT) would know that story to be pure nonsense.

Nonie's post below:

Quote:

Re: "young eyes"
by Nonie>> Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:13 pm

Hi Sarah:

I know facial exercises can make the eyes look younger. Most people associate hooding of upper eyelids with old eyes even though for some people like me it was hereditary. But I know facial exercise can change hooded eyes to looking like they have never been hooded. It happened to me in a period of 15 years with face exercises. Also I developed puffy eyes that Doctors thought were fat that could not be removed without surgery but facial exercises changed that.

You might say...Maybe she just didn't want to bring FlexE into the mix. True, but, she could have simply said just what she did ("I developed puffy eyes...facial exercises changed that too") and left it at that. WITHOUT saying...Doctors and fat and surgery... unless of course it's true.

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:45 am

Needl wrote:

Deb looks amazing, not a wrinkle on her, no flabbiness etc. But somehow one can tell her age really. And maybe that's just fine: a strong, beautiful, well-maintained woman.

Opinions - everybody's got one! Smile

Mine is that she looks to be in her early 40s.

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:41 pm

Sorry, but FE enthusiast though I am, I did not lie when I said Nonie made that statement: FE caused her to form the 'sausages' under the eyes. Here it is: https://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=49048&start=50

Sure, there may have been other causes, but I actually think it's quite reasonable to accept that a young person who more quickly builds large facial muscles can easily overdo it.

Please remember: I'm PRO FE, but over-building is not a good idea, and that's more likely to happen to a young person.

I don't think I claimed that it would cause permanent damage though.

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:28 pm

Steering this back on topic....

Deb, what age do you think that facial exercises start to give people a clear serious edge? I mean a difference that you can really see...that you start to look younger than your age. I'm curious what your opinion is.

free skin care · Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:45 pm

Needl no one is saying you lied, but that if you look at the story you are quoting there are vast differences and its often portrayed that it is FE that caused Nonie permanent damage, and there is now more than sufficient posts that Nonie has done where she has been revealed to not be telling the complete and utter truth.

No one is arguing that young person can't overbuild, but from what I have seen that is possible with almost any program out there. FE has its own forum and many do not, but as you can read on EDS there are people who have had issues with all the programs, even those so called safe ones.

Needl wrote:

Sorry, but FE enthusiast though I am, I did not lie when I said Nonie made that statement: FE caused her to form the 'sausages' under the eyes. Here it is: https://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=49048&start=50

Sure, there may have been other causes, but I actually think it's quite reasonable to accept that a young person who more quickly builds large facial muscles can easily overdo it.

Please remember: I'm PRO FE, but over-building is not a good idea, and that's more likely to happen to a young person.

I don't think I claimed that it would cause permanent damage though.

free skin care · Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:19 pm

Sure, I know any resistance programme could lead to overbuilding. As a keen FE user, that is the example that came to mind.

free skin care · Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:06 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Steering this back on topic....

Deb, what age do you think that facial exercises start to give people a clear serious edge? I mean a difference that you can really see...that you start to look younger than your age. I'm curious what your opinion is.

BONE:

Bone mass peaks around age 30. Around the age 36, bone reabsorption (loss) begins to occur more frequently than bone formation (remodeling).

MUSCLE:

Muscles begin to lose mass (atrophy) after only a few days of disuse... It is that easy!
Although exercise helps everyone hold onto muscle mass longer, the biggest factor contributing to loss of muscle is that your ability to produce new muscle proteins diminish as you age.

A STUDY:

"American Journal of Physiology" in 1998: The ability to produce new muscle protein is reduced by 31 percent in middle age and 44 percent in older age.

Muscle Proteins: Specialized proteins in muscle cells that are the building-blocks of the structures constituting the moving (contraction etc.) of muscle.
_________________________________________________

People who train have less loss of facial bone, muscle protein, and muscle fiber than ALL others of the same age who don't train.

A serious edge? Judging from what you just read...what age would you start?

Why would you worry about overbuild... Again; muscles begin to lose mass (atrophy) after only a few days of disuse.

I was fortunate enough to start at 31

free skin care · Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:25 pm

Deb, thanks for commenting. Keeping muscles fit is certainly helpful. I've read (on Owndoc) that sag is also due to ligaments lengthening. Can we prevent that?

free skin care · Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:12 pm

But that's the whole point - you say this is an "example" but there is a whole mission and purpose behind all of Nonie's postings about FlexEffect which is obvious and now revealed, and its never been proven (by her or them) that she actually purchased it so its not actually a good example.

Needl wrote:

Sure, I know any resistance programme could lead to overbuilding. As a keen FE user, that is the example that came to mind.

free skin care · Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:16 pm

OK: there were different opinions on whether Nonie's particular problem was overbuild/over-massage.

However, I'm still convinced that one can overbuild and that young people are more likely to do this, as their muscles build more easily.

The FE books even mention easing off if one experiences overbuild. I found my cheeks got too thick and fat-looking from one of the exercises.

free skin care · Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:19 am

I just want to chime in about Deb's recent photos-- I really do not think she looks anywhere near 60. She easily could pass for 15 yrs younger than she is. So, I have to respectful disagree with the statement that people who exercise still look their age only healthier. I agree that this could really start somewhere in the thirties...would be great to see photos from exercisers in that age group.

free skin care · Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:02 pm

Thought I would chime in here.

You are all aware, I'm sure, that Audrea, who is the demonstrator on the FE video, is in her 30's at the time of the video.

I'm sure you're also aware she stared resistance training at a young age with solid knowledge and application by age 18 or so. Additionally she easily worked her face more often than the average person as she also taught FE for $$ during her years in college, earning her degrees in biology, chemistry with some physics thrown in for good measure.

Now.. regarding overbuild. The face is similar to the body. Overbuild has to do with a person's ability to do so. NOT their age. Granted the ability to build generally decreases with age, illness etc.

I've met plenty of women who truly do not understand their own bodies and the way they develop. This is painfully obvious in a dance studio. The serious lack of personal awareness is sometimes jaw dropping. In a gym environment, however, I often see women (and men)do squats like someone else in the gym with really pretty legs. Only it turns out they build HUGE glutes and quads. That's not age related. That's their own personal DNA at play... and the inability or refusal to actually look at their own personal results.

One needs to train to their personal needs. There is NO one size fits all. We have you start with a basic program and we tell you to pay attn. to your personal development and make adjustments as needed.

I liken the situation to this: I Hope you enjoy it! Still makes me LOL

http://youtu.be/7LAg2B1JQck

free skin care · Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:32 pm

A lot would depend on the individual. I had fat baby cheeks throughout most of my life. I would have killed or died for visible cheekbones in my 20's. If I'd discovered facial exercise back then, maybe I would have changed the world with my fabulous cheekbones! LOL

free skin care · Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:25 pm

jenp7 wrote:

I really do not think she looks anywhere near 60

Well agreed, for a Caucasian woman. I guess I just see so many Asian and Polynesian women that smooth beautiful skin into old age seems normal to me. Just not normal FOR me, sigh...

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