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Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:52 am  |
Hi HayypHippie,
I have very dry skin so I don't know how it would be for oily skin. There are a lot of oils that are good for all skin types but I don't know if Red Raspberry Oil is one of them. You could always e-mail Elizabeth at RYF. She's so full of great information.
Molly,
Sorry I missed your point.
The Beauty industry always latches onto something in order to push their own products. This does lead to false advertising. However, this is a billion dollar industry so it's bound to happen.
No, I don't like it when the same sourced material is used over and over again and/or misquoted. No, I don't like false advertising but in my opinion that is always going to happen in this industry. Too many greedy, unethical people knowing they can rake in millions by falsely advertising a product and believing consumers are idiots who will believe and buy anything.
That is why I come on this forum. To get as much information as I can before I buy something or believe in the effectiveness of a product. |
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:33 am |
I personally feel that well-funded thorough studies on natural sunscreen methods do not exist because there are no interested parties. Any findings would not be patentable -> no financial incentive.
JMHO  |
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AYRLuxe.com |
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:46 pm |
| pumaka wrote: |
I personally feel that good-funded thorough studies on natural sunscreen methods do not exist because there are no interested parties. Any findings would not be patentable -> no financial incentive.
JMHO |
This is true. There are many studies on various natural ingredients but they all take lots of funding by interested parties. That's what the researcher on the raspberry oil said, that the funders were not intereted in further studies on it, unfortunely.
I'm aware of the summary of the study Debbie gave. For those who can't log in, here it is:
"There is really no scientific basis for the claims that are being made. It has all been exaggerated from one test that Dr. O and crew did on crude raspberry seed oil. I think that it certainly warrants further research (which Dr. O told me is very low priority to those in control of the $$$$), but it is outrageous that this paper is being touted as the basis of SPF claims all over the Internet.
I think it is actually a good lesson to go to the source and not trust sweeping statements.
In quick summary for everyone:
The SPF portion is one paragraph of the entire paper. The paper is mainly about the composition of the lipids.
Crude raspberry seed oil was tested using a spectrometer to see where it absorbed radiation. It showed some absorption in the UVC (100 - 290 nm) and UVB (290 -320 nm) ranges. In the UVA range (320 nm - 400 nm) light was mainly scattered, which could offer UV protection by sheer scattering effect.
A general statement is made that the optical transmission in the UV range is similar to titanium dioxide preparations with an SPF of 28-50 and a UV protection factor (PFK) of 6.75 - 7.5.
This was all completed with a cuvette of oil placed in a spectrophotometer!
There were no tests done to further confirm if any of this is applicable to a human or even animal application."
http://theskincareboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1247&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=red+raspberry+oil&start=15
I can see where the exagretation came from, but it does also upset me when so many just misquote and mislead. Many sites say it has an SPF "rating" of 28-50 while it has never been rated.
The preliminary findings of the UV range is promising though compared to other oils. Of course it doesn't prove anything. However, some people are ok with experimenting on themselves and seeing if it works for what they need. Other's will only be satisified or feel safe with FDA approved and rated sunscreens.
Considering that I never used any type of protection before and I don't even know anybody who slathers on multiple applications of sunscreen 365 days a year, I'm willing to try it.
Some people are ok with minerals and makeup that have or are the active sunscreening minerals like Zinc, while others will never be comfortable without knowing the # rating for it. That's fine.
I also look at some things that have never been looked into as far as I know and compare the qualities. Like it's mostly said for these things that the protection is because of their high vitamin E and beta carotene content. Well I know of nothing with higher beta carotene and vitamin E then red palm oil, so it must offer some protection too. Of course I don't have the #'s of all the oils and substances to compare the levels of these nutrients. Most just say, very high in such and such with no #'s given.
Some people are A OK with using AHA's and Retinol even though they are proven to inscrease the sensitivity to the sun and lower their protection from the sun. Sure sunscreens help some, but not as much as sunscreens minus the AHA's, obviously.
"These studies confirmed the previous findings that applying AHAs to the skin results in increased UV sensitivity. After four weeks of AHA application, volunteers' sensitivity to skin reddening produced by UV increased by 18%. Similarly, the volunteers' sensitivity to UV-induced cellular damage doubled, on average, with considerable differences among individuals."
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cosahauv.html
"The studies are being conducted to determine if there is a relationship between the appearance of sunlight-induced skin cancer and the continuous use of these topically applied acids."
"The FDA has particular concerns that, unlike traditional cosmetics, these acids might peel away layers of the skin to the point where sunlight can damage DNA in cells at the skin's deepest levels and promote skin cancer. And so, says Howard, "vanity may have a price." The question, he says, is "whether the use of these acids causes a change in skin cancer rates, and if so, whether glycolic acid (an alpha-hydroxy) and salicylic acid (the most widely used beta-hydroxy acid) work differently."
"As prevention, however, sunscreens alone appear to be imperfect. In the first study to test the protective effect of sunscreens on people--not just the hairless mice or other models used in laboratory studies--researchers at the Queensland Institute for Medical Research in Brisbane, Australia, reported in September 1999 that sunscreen use reduces the risk of developing squamous cell carcinoma by 40 percent. But using sunscreen did not reduce the risk of developing melanoma or basal cell carcinoma. The Australian study followed 1,383 adults for five years."
I have also heard that many chemical sunscreens on the market may cause photosensitivy in individuals. I read that on the FDA's website.
"Does using sunscreens help protect against photosensitivity? The answer is not clear. Sunscreens do lessen the effects of UV radiation, but some contain ingredients that themselves may cause photosensitivity in some people. Also, most sunscreens protect only from short-wave UV light (UVB), whereas most phototoxic compounds are activated by longer wavelengths of UV light (UVA). Sunscreens containing bergamot oil, sandalwood oil, benzophenones, PABA, cinnamates, salicylates, anthranilates, PSBA, mexenone, and oxybenzone can all cause photosensitivity reactions. Titanium dioxide is the least likely sunscreen to cause photosensitivity disorders."
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/496_sun.html |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:28 am |
| pumaka wrote: |
I personally feel that well-funded thorough studies on natural sunscreen methods do not exist because there are no interested parties. Any findings would not be patentable -> no financial incentive.
JMHO |
pumaka I don't know if I totally agree with this. Take zinc oxide. There have been tons of studies done on this and it is not exactly patentable. Sure some companies have patents on special types of zinc oxide like Z-cote and ZinClear and have done studies to prove that their zinc oxide is supposedly superior but there have been a lot of studies done on "plain" zinc oxide as well. I am sure if we think hard enough we could come up with a lot of examples of non-patented ingredients with a lot of studies done on them. I really don't know why there seems to be a lack of studies on natural ingredients. |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:36 am |
Theresa,
I don't think it's a fair comparison between zinc oxide and raspberry seed oil (RSO).
Zinc oxide is a chemical compound that has many many uses beyond sunscreen (it's commonly used in rubber manufacturing, plastics, ceramics, pharmaceuticals, etc. etc).
RSO and other similar botanicals would probably not offer the same versatility, and again -> fewer interested parties and sponsors. |
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AYRLuxe.com |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:38 am |
Thank you BYRG for all that info. Do you use mineral make-up?  |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:28 am |
| pumaka wrote: |
Theresa,
I don't think it's a fair comparison between zinc oxide and raspberry seed oil (RSO).
Zinc oxide is a chemical compound that has many many uses beyond sunscreen (it's commonly used in rubber manufacturing, plastics, ceramics, pharmaceuticals, etc. etc).
RSO and other similar botanicals would probably not offer the same versatility, and again -> fewer interested parties and sponsors. |
Good point pumaka. However, there are plenty of studies done on zinc oxide as a sunscreen agent which has nothing to do with most of it's other uses. But I really think the versatility issue that you raise would be a factor in why natural ingredients are less studied. |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:16 pm |
| happyhippie wrote: |
| Thank you BYRG for all that info. Do you use mineral make-up? |
Yes I do!
I don't wear much makeup though, so I don't get any protection from it. I only wear a bit of cream concealer and a dab of setting powder anywhere that is too shiny.
I'm about to start though. I'm shopping around to find a good liquid mineral foundation and other mineral makeup. Getting samples etc. It's hard to decide, between Jane Iredale's liquid minerals, Dr. H, or The Organic Makeup Company. I already ruled out Miessence cause I got some samples and the colors were totally wrong. Larenim, although all powders is coming out with titanium-free foundations and powders within a month, so I'll probably check those out too.
I don't really consider Zinc Oxide to be a totally natural ingredient or substance. It is all man made in the lab. Sure there are many studies on various natural ingredients and foods, tons of them, but unless something has a specific promising application there are not going to be major studies on it for proving that purpose. Even if something has promising potential found for a certain application, like the raspberry oil for instance. No one is going to be interested in sponsoring studies to further prove it if it's not something that's going to be viable and profitable that they want to invest in. Being that it's a totally natural product that requires large amounts of seeds and raspberries grown for very little oil produced, and is expensive and not very profitable or mass marketable. Well there's not really a market there. Not to mention the cost of FDA approval and testing etc. it would require. Zinc Oxide is cheap and can be man made and mass produced. If they find a specific compound in something natural they can syntheize or market then it has a lot more potential for them. I mean look at the number of studies done on raspberries verses say soy. Soy has a huge lobby and market and farmers and there a zillions of studies done on it. Again, interested parties who can profit from the info they get from the studies. Just my opinion. Raspberries are studied though and shown to be a powerful food. Ellagic acid. |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:41 pm |
Thanks BYRG, you do make a lot of usefull points on the issue of studies and natural ingredients.
BTW I guess I wasn't clear on this but I was not implying that Zinc Oxide is a totally natural ingredient. I was just saying that plain old zinc oxide is not a patentable substance! |
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:08 pm |
| TheresaL wrote: |
Thanks BYRG, you do make a lot of usefull points on the issue of studies and natural ingredients.
BTW I guess I wasn't clear on this but I was not implying that Zinc Oxide is a totally natural ingredient. I was just saying that plain old zinc oxide is not a patentable substance! |
Point taken. Thanks for clearifying. Seems though that anything is patentable now days. They are patenting seeds and plants and other natural and living things that used to be totally off limits and is totally redicilous. Basically my point was that patentable or not, it's more about market potential and profit margins. |
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Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:00 am |
| BYRG wrote: |
| TheresaL wrote: |
Thanks BYRG, you do make a lot of usefull points on the issue of studies and natural ingredients.
BTW I guess I wasn't clear on this but I was not implying that Zinc Oxide is a totally natural ingredient. I was just saying that plain old zinc oxide is not a patentable substance! |
Point taken. Thanks for clearifying. Seems though that anything is patentable now days. They are patenting seeds and plants and other natural and living things that used to be totally off limits and is totally redicilous. Basically my point was that patentable or not, it's more about market potential and profit margins. |
Anyone know the spf rating of Sea Buckthorn oil? |
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Mid 20s. Oily/Combo skin. Fighting wrinkle and blemishes. |
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MargefromTN
New Member
 
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:52 pm |
Nature's Gift has certified Organic Red Raspberry Seed oil.
Horrifically expensive, but certified organic, Cold pressed the first week of June. |
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:30 am |
| I'm also pretty skeptical about the spf claims of red raspberry seed oil, and it looks like my skepticism is warranted. I'm sure it's still a great oil though! |
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Wed May 13, 2015 6:33 pm |
Apologies for bumping an old thread but I too am trying to find a trusted source for red raspberry seed oil. I am quite fussy, I would like it to be cold-pressed and in a light concealed bottle- is that too much to ask!? 
I think I will try out Primavera's Pomegranate Oil. I know Russel Organics do a Red Raspberry Seed Oil, I may try that out.
I'm hoping to mix the Pomegranate, Red Raspberry and Rosehip oil together for a night time oil use. |
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Wed May 13, 2015 7:27 pm |
I've used GOW's red raspberry seed oil. Bought it a few years back. It's good, but it is a thicker and heavier oil. The bottle was plastic, not clear, but somewhat frosted. |
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Wed May 27, 2015 5:05 pm |
| For those in the US amazon has organic cold pressed RSO. (I've ordered organic cold pressed barberry fig oil on amazon and been very happy with the quality, so i am assuming that some of the RSO oils will also be good quality) |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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