DermaRoller
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:02 am

What do you think about using LED right after a roll? Or should I wait a day or so?

Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:29 pm

Pandax12 wrote:

hdevries wrote:

Is it absolutely necessary to use a serum or any other product in addition to dermarolling?

It all seems incredibly expensive so I'd like to know if it's worth it.

Nope it is not essential to use serums and other products when dermarolling. These things can enhance the rolling results, especially during cosmetic rolls, but it's the rolling itself that is the "Bulldozer" if you will.

Dr. Setterfield explains it well here:

Cosmetic vs Medical Needling

Typically, dermal needling is divided into "Cosmetic" and "Medical" based on the length of needles (Cosmetic: less than 0.5 mm; Medical: 0.5 mm and greater), and the depth reached in the skin (see diagram page 4 Cool

. Cosmetic needling micro-injures the epidermis, and medical needling, the dermis. (Page 48 Concise Guide to Dermal Needling Expanded Medical Edition.)

There are two completely different pathways involved, both of which lead to increased collagen production.

A. The "cosmetic" pathway -- Initially it was believed that cosmetic needling only allowed greater absorption of products. However, keratinocyte injury triggers a cascade of cell-to-cell communication that leads to up-regulation of genes. This results in normal collagen production in the absence of inflammation, and the optimization of cellular function at a number of levels, both of which contribute to the anti-aging effect.

B. The "medical" pathway -- Injury at the dermal level triggers a completely different kind of cascade with platelets playing the predominant role. Platelets are like a first-aid kit containing growth factors and cytokines that are released at time of injury to facilitate repair. It is important to note that inflammation drives this process and when in excess, may lead to scar collagen or fibrosis. Thus, in the context of medical needling, best results are obtained by cancelling this negative effect through use of anti-inflammatory products and treatment modalities, such as LED.

I personally feel that a 1.0mm is the minimum length for medical rolls. I'm not 100% sold that 0.5mm is adequate but I could be wrong.

Thanks for your reply, that's good to know. My plan is to roll some minor acne scars, a raised surgical scar (you can barely feel it but it's visible) and some frowning wrinkles. After doing the research I'm pretty sure 1 mm once every 4 weeks is exactly what I need. I'll see if dermarolling turns out to be effective for me and if it is I will start looking into serums and such some more.

I have just two more questions before I feel comfortable starting a routine that I hope someone is willing to answer:

I've read that dermarolling/stamping isn't the right way to go for indentations/wrinkles because you're also stimulating collagen production in the surrounding area even though you only want the indentation/wrinkle to fill in. Is this really a concern and should I try single needling instead?

How important is dermaroller quality? As a student I'm pretty strapped for cash so it'd be great if I could just get a cheap one from China. It seems to me that if you take proper care in how you handle and apply it, there shouldn't be any difference.

free skin care · Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:08 pm

For your first question I've never even heard that theory. Ignore that. Single needle is a great option also. I do both dermaroller and single needles for acne scars and my #11

I've rolled for 4 years and have bought all my rollers from ebay (china) NEVER had one issue with them. Now there are some that are better than others and some will have horror stories doing this. Most seem to have good luck with them.

Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:40 am

Is it okay to use a numbing cream when I dermaroll?

I planned on dermarolling my face every six weeks. I've only done it twice so far however. It is effective antiaging treatment in opinion, I just find myself "dreading" it, if that makes any sense?

It's not so much the actual dermarolling, I definitely don't go overboard...I get red but NOT bleedy. It's the 1-2 hours afterward that bother me! SO burny and SO UNCOMFORTABLE!

Can a numbing cream be safely used? Actually I guess what I mean is using a numbing cream somehow not preferable...does it interfere with the process or soak in and create an undesirable effect?

free skin care · Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:18 am

Seaghdha wrote:

Is it okay to use a numbing cream when I dermaroll?

I planned on dermarolling my face every six weeks. I've only done it twice so far however. It is effective antiaging treatment in opinion, I just find myself "dreading" it, if that makes any sense?

It's not so much the actual dermarolling, I definitely don't go overboard...I get red but NOT bleedy. It's the 1-2 hours afterward that bother me! SO burny and SO UNCOMFORTABLE!

Can a numbing cream be safely used? Actually I guess what I mean is using a numbing cream somehow not preferable...does it interfere with the process or soak in and create an undesirable effect?

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

I've had good success with this. Cheaper and easier to find. http://www.amazon.com/Anesthetic-Numbing-Numb-Piercing-Shipping/dp/B00P8GAN9Y/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1437837543&sr=8-7&keywords=dr.numb+numbing+cream

Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:29 am

Oh wow, thank you so much for this information! Very Happy

Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:47 pm

Hey guys! I came across this forum recently while I was doing some research on dermarollers. The info and articles you guys provided are so, so helpful, so thank you all for that! I'm reading through earlier pages now (I'm on page 63, so I'm getting there!) bUT I have a few questions I was hoping you guys could help me with while I catch up on everything.

I have a .5mm roller that I've used a couple of times, but after I found this forum I realized the needle length isn't long enough for what I need it for. I have a lot (seriously, a lot) of stretch marks on my stomach, waist, and upper arms. They're old so they've faded into silvery ones, but I have tan skin and the stretch marks are numerous, so I'd really like to get rid of then or at least reduce their visibility. I plan on ordering either the 2.5mm roller or 3mm roller and doing an aggressive roll every 6-7 weeks. The questions I have are:

1.) If I do an aggressive roll with a 2.5mm or 3mm roller every 6-7 weeks, would it be okay to use a .15mm roller a couple of times a week -between my aggressive rolls- to help with product absorption? Or will that cause too much inflammation and disrupt the collagen buildup from my aggressive rolls?

2.) If .15mm won't disturb the collagen from my 2.5mm/3mm aggressive rolls, will a .5mm roller disrupt it? Just wondering if a .5mm one is too aggressive for that. It would be great if I could use a .5mm for product absorption and save money by not having to order a .15mm roller, but I want to do what's best to preserve the collagen from my 2.5 or 3mm rolls.

3.) I read that using CP, vit A, and vit C help with collagen, but I was thinking of using Trilastin-SR. Do you think it would be okay to use Trilastin-SR and some vit C serum? Or will using CP, vit A, and vit C work better for what I'm trying to achieve? (Less noticeable stretch marks, decreased visibility, improved texture, and some skin tightening). The ingredients for Trilastin SR are as follows:

Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Cyclopentasiloxane, Peg-3 Benzyl, Ether Myristate, Glycerin, Caprylic/Capric, Triglyceride, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Butylene Glycol, Octyldodecanol, Beeswax, Polyacrylamide, C13-14 Isoparaffin Laureth-7, Behenyl Alcohol, Glyceryl, Stearate Citrate, Sodium Dicocoylethylenediamine, Peg-15 Sulfate, Zea Mays (Corn) Kernel Extract, Xanthan Gum, Methylparaben, Phenoxyethanol, Chlorphenesin, Propylparaben, Azelaic Acid, Pueraria Lobata, Root Extract, Algin, Sodium Citrate, Caprylyl Glycol, Hexylene Glycol, Atelocollagen, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Polyglyceryl 3 Methylglucose Distearate, Arctostaphylos Uva Ursi Leaf Extract, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Hydrolyzed Elastin, Chlorella Vulgaris Extract, Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate, Silica Dimethyl Silylate, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Butylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Ethylparaben, Sodium Chondroitin Sulfate, Dimethicone, Polymethyl Methacrylate, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Disodium Edta, Bht, Tocopheryl Acetate, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Retinyl Palmitate, Ubiquinone, Palmitic Acid, Thioctic Acid, Beta Carotene, Phytonadione, Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract.

Any help and insight you guys can provide would be awesome! Thank you so much in advance!!

free skin care · Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:37 pm

I've not rolled for stretch marks, just facial skin, so I'll let others address questions 1 & 2 for you. But on #3, I would find something with fewer chemical ingredients. There is some stuff in that mix that may not be great to get deeper in your skin and may cause burning and itching. I've used an oil based mix with vit A and oil based C myself. There is also Infadolan from Owndoc that others have used
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-177/infadolan.html

free skin care · Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:48 pm

ShastaGirl wrote:

I've not rolled for stretch marks, just facial skin, so I'll let others address questions 1 & 2 for you. But on #3, I would find something with fewer chemical ingredients. There is some stuff in that mix that may not be great to get deeper in your skin and may cause burning and itching. I've used an oil based mix with vit A and oil based C myself. There is also Infadolan from Owndoc that others have used
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-177/infadolan.html

ShastaGirl I have Infdolan. Is that like having retin A or do I need to get that too?

free skin care · Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:37 am

wrinklefreeforever wrote:

ShastaGirl wrote:

I've not rolled for stretch marks, just facial skin, so I'll let others address questions 1 & 2 for you. But on #3, I would find something with fewer chemical ingredients. There is some stuff in that mix that may not be great to get deeper in your skin and may cause burning and itching. I've used an oil based mix with vit A and oil based C myself. There is also Infadolan from Owndoc that others have used
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-177/infadolan.html

ShastaGirl I have Infdolan. Is that like having retin A or do I need to get that too?

Infadolan has some vitamin A in it. Retin A is stronger. In my opinion Retin A is too potent for after rolling.

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:43 pm

Hi everyone. I had posted in here six months ago that I was aggressively needling my face with the 1.5mm derma-rollers and derma-stamps. I even did it, for a month-long duration, as frequently as every other day. Then I reported that had to stop because my skin was getting super dry. Well, after this round of intensive needling I did stop entirely for five months (because I was involved in a show). So, what I noticed in these five months of leaving my face alone was, my skin became really improved - and now I really think I look five years younger than I did back in March. I am really happy with how my skin is looking! So I think I hit on something, with this intensive, aggressive needling, followed by a period of five to six months of allowing your skin to recover fully. I think I am ready now to do another round of aggressive needling to my face, and I'm considering getting a derma pen for that. I have no idea which is the best one though. I'd like to get the one that does the most aggressive needling possible. Does anyone have a recommendation?

free skin care · Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:27 pm

Lisa jm wrote:

Hi everyone. I had posted in here six months ago that I was aggressively needling my face with the 1.5mm derma-rollers and derma-stamps. I even did it, for a month-long duration, as frequently as every other day. Then I reported that had to stop because my skin was getting super dry. Well, after this round of intensive needling I did stop entirely for five months (because I was involved in a show). So, what I noticed in these five months of leaving my face alone was, my skin became really improved - and now I really think I look five years younger than I did back in March. I am really happy with how my skin is looking! So I think I hit on something, with this intensive, aggressive needling, followed by a period of five to six months of allowing your skin to recover fully. I think I am ready now to do another round of aggressive needling to my face, and I'm considering getting a derma pen for that. I have no idea which is the best one though. I'd like to get the one that does the most aggressive needling possible. Does anyone have a recommendation?

I don't think you hit on something. Your skin just recovered from the abuse you gave it via every other day rolling with a 1.5mm
Why so extreme in length of time between rolls?
Both before and what your about to do?
I know you will ignore this opinion from what I remember about your past posts but it is the truth.

Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:55 pm

Pandax12 wrote:

I don't think you hit on something. Your skin just recovered from the abuse you gave it via every other day rolling with a 1.5mm
Why so extreme in length of time between rolls?
Both before and what your about to do?
I know you will ignore this opinion from what I remember about your past posts but it is the truth.

Really nice posting Pandax12. You seem like a really humble and open-minded person. Appreciate your respect for my posting. Answer to your question about why the length of time between rolls: couldn't do anything to my face while I was acting in a play during this time. I'm 61 and was cast to play a 38 year old and the director didn't cast me for that because I looked like crap. Have a great day!

Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:56 pm

And thanks for answering my question about derma pens!

Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:13 pm

Lisa, I think you was building collagen during the last 5 months. That's awesome and I think it builds up for up to a year. I for one am very happy for you.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:33 pm

I ordered my derma roller and it should come in this week. I was wondering if I should take hyaluronic acid supplements while using the derma roller ... Has anybody tried this? (PS I've been reading this thread but its taking me a while to get through so sorry if this has already been talked about!)

Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:57 pm

Anyone with experience needling the lowerback?

I used a 2-mm roller with a lot of pressure but it only was red for a couple of hours.

Rolling Eyes

Maybe I have to go with a 3mm one? I know that they have used this length in the earliest studies on micro needling, but haven't read about people that still go this deep.

Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:01 pm

Interesting--I was looking under "New Products" and noticed that EDS just added PSF Dr. Roller Dermarollers to the online store. They can be found here for any who are interested: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/dr-roller-m_415_1258.htm

Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:17 am

Stated below that you must use a minimum of a .75mm needle for collagen production, but I've read elsewhere that .5mm will suffice. Which is best? I'm using a .5mm, and I suspect a .75mm will be too painful.

Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:30 am

Hello, All,
Just joined this site today. Before I bought a dermaroller, I ordered a book which gave me SO MUCH info.
There are several books with this topic on Amazon and, yes, they are pricey. I ordered "Holistic Microneedling" by Anthony Kingston. Think it was about $60, but got free shipping which saved a little.
Have used the roller I bought only once, but more on that later. Happy Beauty Day to you! Laughing

free skin care · Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:14 pm

Nshrimp, this study by Setterfield is encouraging: https://beautymagonline.com/sample-pages/1185-needling-09-1

Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:32 am

Hey everyone, male, 40s, getting excellent results from - ageessifyoudare ( loulou thanks for all your help) but I have a question nobody seems can answer

is it ok to combine facial exercise with dermaroller?. Is it too much to do both in one go or would I be better taking a break from one to do the other. I guess I have a lot of sun-damage because although my skin is definitely tighter its still quite coarse and lined for my age and my pock marks haven't been much affected. Bearing in mind that I'm a guy so prolly have tougher skin... Can anyone help/advise?

Thanks in advance, Len Cant

free skin care · Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:48 pm

Needl wrote:

Nshrimp, this study by Setterfield is encouraging: https://beautymagonline.com/sample-pages/1185-needling-09-1

That's an interesting article, especially this:

"Prolonging the inflammatory phase (day 1-5) will result in more growth factors. Photomodulation and lymph drainage are valuable from day 2-14 and then cosmetic rolling combined with Sonophoresis and micro-current are beneficial to assist maximum delivery of nutrients to cells. Collagenase peaks at around day 14 to reorganize collagen fibrils, converting collagen 3 to collagen 1 and it therefore makes no sense to reinjure the skin more frequently than every 30 days."

I thought Dr. Setterfield believed in reducing inflammation right away - does anyone have information on this?

free skin care · Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:46 pm

I certainly do both (Ageless/Flexeffect exercises daily, needling off and on). I just take a break from facial exercise on the day after using my derminator, as I'm leaving my skin in peace for that day (no creams or soaps either, just water).

But this is just my way of doing it, no guarantee that any of what I do is 'OK'.

Btw, about frequency, there are differing opinions.

In an article on more frequent (but less deep) rolling, Dr Des Fernandes writes here: http://www.spabeauty.co.nz/Beauty+Articles/x_post/the-evolution-of-skin-needling-00260.html

free skin care · Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:23 pm

Needl wrote:

I certainly do both (Ageless/Flexeffect exercises daily, needling off and on). I just take a break from facial exercise on the day after using my derminator, as I'm leaving my skin in peace for that day (no creams or soaps either, just water).

But this is just my way of doing it, no guarantee that any of what I do is 'OK'.

Btw, about frequency, there are differing opinions.

In an article on more frequent (but less deep) rolling, Dr Des Fernandes writes here: http://www.spabeauty.co.nz/Beauty+Articles/x_post/the-evolution-of-skin-needling-00260.html

It's so confusing to know what to do with the differing opinions that it has almost "paralyzed" me and I haven't been needling. Dr F recommends using Environ ACE oil and that has bht...isn't that a horrible ingredient? Who can we trust? Has anyone here had truly great visible results and what did/do you do to get them?

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.