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Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:41 am  |
I have been researching EDS for all the methods to successfully plump up under eye hollows. The most talked about methods I found were facial exercises and avocado oil. I am interested in using one of the many devices we talk about on here to see if I can stimulate collagen and thicken the skin without destroying the small amount of fat that remains under the eyes.
I have found vague mention of microcurrent, laser, dry brushing, and suction (Vaculifter) helping, but haven't read an actual protocol to specifically plump under the eyes. I've read the thread on dermarolling under the eyes to remove bags, but that sounds to me like destroying the fat. Maybe a lesser needle depth would stimulate collagen without making hollows worse?
Can anyone give advice on what devices have worked, and what protocols were followed? |
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I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. -Michael Jordan |
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Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:03 am |
Ok, I have been dealing with this and have done lots of research.
One of the most common causes is fat pads shifting down due to aging, bone loss, and gravity.
Here are some common ways to deal with this:
Fastest and probably the most expensive:
Fillers!!! They do wonders for the undereye if done correctly. I have had it done twice over the past two years. One time it did not make a difference as she injected a bit below than needed. Then a year later, a new dermatologist filled them up so nicely. I loved it. Now I am due for another fill
Other things that help:
1. Good diet, not losing weight...because they are fat pads and respond to fat loss like anywhere else
2. Low impact exercise. I run often and all the pounding shifts the fats pads down. Have you ever taken a look at yourself when jumping up and down, you will see your face going up and down too. I now alternate with biking
3. Dermarolling - Temporary swelling due to inflammation will yield right away results, which will go away in a few days, but it works to also create new collagen, so long term it has positive impacts
4. Adequate Calcium intake - going back to bone loss
5. Microcurrrent devices like the Nuface to lift cheeks and improve under eyes
6. Face exercises - have not tried this, but similar reason as microcurrent. The goal is to shift everything back up so you don't see the hollows
7. Acceptance - hardest to do, the cheapest option. I am not good at this, but I know that aging is inevitable, and learning to appreciate things as they are. |
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Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:43 pm |
Hi pisces, are you very skinny? I am, and I have the same hollow eye sockets like you describe (but overall, I really like my skinny face).
My favorite methods are facial exercises and avocado oil. Facial exercises are so much fun, I do Facerobics by Peta, and it's free! And the avocado oil is a no-brainer, it takes seconds to apply it before bed, and it's so cheap that the cost is basically negligible (cold pressed and unrefined, of course).
On Tom Hagerty's facial website, he mentions that he's seen bodybuilders prepping for a contest and dropping too much bodyfat get the same look you describe, and gaining weight may help. |
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Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:36 pm |
| Fillers. I have fillers put in every year and a half. It's worth every penny! I do eye exercises like crazy, dermaroll the eye area once a month and apply Retin A to the undereye area but it's not going to actually replace the soft, cushiony subdermal fat that is lost with age. Sorry. |
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Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:10 am |
Thanks for the replies! Well, I'm not skinny right now, so it's not weight related. I just really noticed hollows in the last month, but my sleeping has been poor and I could drink more water. My diet is good and I get all the good nutrients for skin and bones. Now I have some follow up questions:
So what I understand is that lifting the cheeks helps fill in the hollows? I was afraid that the hollows would be more pronounced because the cheeks would cause more depth contrast.
What length needles are y'all using to dermaroll, and how close to the eye are you getting? How often are you rolling?
Which specific exercises are you doing for the eyes and how often? I have read good and bad outcomes on the exercise threads and it's very confusing.
Would emu oil work as well as avocado oil? I haven't seen much success with it yet (been using for a week) and I'm wondering what property or nutrient in the avocado oil is causing improvement?
Would LED or suction help, or hurt?
Which specific fillers give the best, longest lasting results?
Sorry for so many questions. Thanks so much for your help!  |
_________________
I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. -Michael Jordan |
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Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:15 am |
Ok, I will answer some of your questions...
First, sleep is so important especially for the under eye area. If you get a full 8 hours for a few weeks straight, you will be surprised that you might be happy with your under eyes again.
I use a dermastamp in the eye area, and I get as close to the lash line as possible without poking myself in the eye. The dermastamp is safer as it doesn't have needles all around that could damage the eye. Also, I close the one eye I am working on...
Needle length 0.75 - 1.0. Bonus tip, use a hyaloronic acid right after so you get extra plumping.
Doubt that Led and suction will do anything. I am afraid suction might make it worse as you are pulling the skin. But not familiar with suction for under eye hollows.
Honestly, you won't get near the results you will get with fillers. If you are spending money on devices, I would say save for fillers. I used restalyne first, and did not like it at all. Didn't do anything.
Then used juvederm ultra and it had great results. But the doctor has to place it deep as to avoid the bluish tint you can get from fillers. That's why it is so important to find someone that knows what they are doing.
Good luck! |
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Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:53 am |
Glowyskin, great tips! I actually already have many, many devices, so wouldn't be spending money. I just wanted to decide where I should start, and I'm not quite ready for fillers until I try something at home first. There are several new fillers that have come out in the past couple years, so I am happy to hear which specific ones work, and which to avoid.
Most posts regarding the under eye area are in the facial exercise threads, and some people really tug on and pinch the skin with great results. I'm worried about stretching that thin skin, and many conversations in those threads argue the controversy. A few people mentioned suction helping to thicken skin under the eyes, but they didn't go into detail regarding protocols.
How often do you roll? You don't roll over the filler, right? Am I wrong to think rolling would make it dissipate more quickly? |
_________________
I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. -Michael Jordan |
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Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:35 pm |
very good question.
I roll once a month, and only after 6 months post filler when I start to see it going away. I usually roll 4-5 times (i.e. 4-5 months), wait a few weeks then get the filler redone.
You are correct that the inflammation from the rolling can make the filler go away quicker. Basically anything that rushes blood to the area, such as massaging or rolling, will metabolize the hyaluronic filler. |
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Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:50 pm |
| glowyskin wrote: |
very good question.
I roll once a month, and only after 6 months post filler when I start to see it going away. I usually roll 4-5 times (i.e. 4-5 months), wait a few weeks then get the filler redone.
You are correct that the inflammation from the rolling can make the filler go away quicker. Basically anything that rushes blood to the area, such as massaging or rolling, will metabolize the hyaluronic filler. |
I guess I'm very lucky. My undereye filler has lasted more than a year. I don't do any dermarolling under the eye until almost a year after it's been filled but I continue orbital eye muscle resistance to keep the muscles taut. I don't spend much on face creams and home devices because I don't see any objective double blind scientific studies that they actually work. So my money is spent on fillers, Retin A and sunscreen. These have been scientifically shown to actually work. |
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Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:15 am |
Hi pisces, to answer your question about facial exercises, I do Facerobics on Youtube, it's free.
It's kind of like resistance training for your face, it's pretty difficult actually, but fun. |
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Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm |
Thanks for the info. I'll look up the video...
Also, I'm very interested to know if anyone on EDS has seen filling in, or even deeper hollows with the home lasers? I'm wondering if using the Iluminage or Tria Eye near the lash line will worsen hollows? |
_________________
I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. -Michael Jordan |
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Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:01 pm |
I would advise against lasers for hollows. Laser can be good for fine lines and wrinkles (i.e triggering collagen formation), but I have read too many horror stories on laser destroying fat cells, which will make the under eye area worse.
I have actually tried the tria laser for the eye area. While you will see temporary swelling from the inflammation, this will go away the next morning and it is not permanent. It made my eye area very dry and accentuated my fine lines there due to dehydration. Had to return it. |
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Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:32 pm |
OK, thanks. I kinda wish I would have returned my Tria Eye Laser, also. I find it difficult to slide on my skin, so I haven't used it regularly yet.
Seems like a lot of devices for skin tightening can destroy fat cells, which isn't what you want for the face... |
_________________
I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. -Michael Jordan |
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Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:32 am |
I don't actually have hollows but I did manage to 'thicken' the under-eye skin.
As part of my facial exercise regimen (that depends on my laziness), I was doing facial massage (I still do massages, gave up on exercises). The one that does impact the under eye area is pinch and roll by Deb Crowley (you can easily find it in the forum). I do it every day, pass the entire eye area 3 times (that is 2-3 minutes). A lot of people have very sensitive skin so this is not for them. First few times when doing it, it is possible that it will take up to an hour for the area to calm down (I did for me).
Another thing I found is that the area became quite firm with micro-currents, I use KD-7701 (small cheap device) and follow protocol for Ele Nuface.
All this being said, if hollows are significant, fillers are really the way forward.
If this is something that happened due to lack of sleep for prolonged period, perhaps a bit of patience, rest and hydration should help. |
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Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:41 am |
| maggie_p wrote: |
I don't actually have hollows but I did manage to 'thicken' the under-eye skin.
As part of my facial exercise regimen (that depends on my laziness), I was doing facial massage (I still do massages, gave up on exercises). The one that does impact the under eye area is pinch and roll by Deb Crowley (you can easily find it in the forum). I do it every day, pass the entire eye area 3 times (that is 2-3 minutes). A lot of people have very sensitive skin so this is not for them. First few times when doing it, it is possible that it will take up to an hour for the area to calm down (I did for me).
Another thing I found is that the area became quite firm with micro-currents, I use KD-7701 (small cheap device) and follow protocol for Ele Nuface.
All this being said, if hollows are significant, fillers are really the way forward.
If this is something that happened due to lack of sleep for prolonged period, perhaps a bit of patience, rest and hydration should help. |
Hi maggie, do you mind sharing what technique you use when you do this under eye "massage", how hard do you press/squeeze? I'm doing Facerobics and would like to add some sort of under eye massage too. I don't want to overexercise any part of my face. |
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Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:57 am |
Not Maggie but she uses the FlexEffect method of massage and Deb Crowley has written about it on this forum so if you search her name out you will find the posts.
It is a few years old but we were all gung ho back then and you will see many people got good results from her method.
| johndoe1125 wrote: |
| maggie_p wrote: |
I don't actually have hollows but I did manage to 'thicken' the under-eye skin.
As part of my facial exercise regimen (that depends on my laziness), I was doing facial massage (I still do massages, gave up on exercises). The one that does impact the under eye area is pinch and roll by Deb Crowley (you can easily find it in the forum). I do it every day, pass the entire eye area 3 times (that is 2-3 minutes). A lot of people have very sensitive skin so this is not for them. First few times when doing it, it is possible that it will take up to an hour for the area to calm down (I did for me).
Another thing I found is that the area became quite firm with micro-currents, I use KD-7701 (small cheap device) and follow protocol for Ele Nuface.
All this being said, if hollows are significant, fillers are really the way forward.
If this is something that happened due to lack of sleep for prolonged period, perhaps a bit of patience, rest and hydration should help. |
Hi maggie, do you mind sharing what technique you use when you do this under eye "massage", how hard do you press/squeeze? I'm doing Facerobics and would like to add some sort of under eye massage too. I don't want to overexercise any part of my face. |
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Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:10 am |
... found the link where Deb Crowley explains the method: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6517293 (using google to search this forum is much quicker imho).
I do the entire eye area 3 times, in the evening. Be careful about using pads of your fingers and check how your skin responds.
It is normal that the skin responds if it was never massaged before (and we are all taught to be very gentle with eye area), but it shouldn't be too much.
Take care! |
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Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:51 am |
| Ok thanks Theresa and maggie, I will look into it! |
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Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:09 pm |
| Yes, thank you- I will look up the Nuface ELE protocol and the massage method. I really appreciate everybody's generosity in sharing their insights! |
_________________
I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. -Michael Jordan |
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Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:49 am |
I don't know if it was Deb or Loli at the FE forum but they did say one time in the beginning if the eyes did respond badly (puffy etc) that it was a temporary reaction but I don't know anyone who tried it and got puffiness etc and continued. It did make some sense at the time but I can't find the specific post but if you do have sensitive skins, the general advice was to go slower than recommended but still to do it daily.
| maggie_p wrote: |
| A lot of people have very sensitive skin so this is not for them. First few times when doing it, it is possible that it will take up to an hour for the area to calm down (I did for me). |
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Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:32 am |
Some great advice on this thread. 
If I could freeze one section of my face so it wouldn't age it would be under my eyes. Sadly it's the most delicate area and usually the first to suffer from the onslaught of aging due to the reasons mentioned above - Fat pats shifting, loss of elasticity, slower collagen production and eventually bone loss under the eye.
I would say fillers are the way to go for maximum impact but there are lots of little things that contribute, a small overall percentage if you like. Lack of sleep (and sleeping on your face), stress, weight loss, UV damage and other environmental factors, diet etc. I try and avoid those things and eat the best diet I can.
You can also supplement. Q10 (mitoq if you can afford it) supposedly slows down aging a little bit by recharging your cell batteries.
K2 (MK7) supplements will help with bone loss (You don't need to worry about this until maybe late 30s...?). I've also read microfractures strengthen bone as calluses /new bone are formed so maybe boxing? lol, I'm kidding!
Hyaluronic Acid supplements - there is a long thread about oral HA plumping skin here. Areas like eye and lips. Larger improvements are noticed when dosing 1000mg or more. Fountain by Deciem do a HA drink with 1000mg per two teaspoons. I'm looking in to doing a DIY version myself.
There are also temporary serums that plump the area up. I think they are called topical filling-type spheres but I'm not sure they are worth it tbh. |
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jaybirl
New Member
 
Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 6
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Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:18 am |
Is it true that the reason for dark rings under our eyes is simply because of thin skin there?
If so are these methods, especially those mentioned by glowyskin, still applicable? |
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Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:42 pm |
If your skin is overly thin, then it is probably the cause why you see the darkness underneath.
You can help this with thickening the skin (careful use of retinol and vit c, microneedling etc.)
reduce the darkness (if allergies, take an antihistamine before bed, sleep with elevated head to avoid blood pooling in the eye veins, get enough sleep etc.)
Filler can help somewhat by plumping the area but not as effective for darkness under the eyes. |
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jaybirl
New Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 6
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Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:30 am |
Another interesting bit of advice someone gave me was to sleep on your back (if possible!).
The idea is that the blood doesn't pool under your eyes during the night. |
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:56 pm |
| I would use the baby quasar and absolutely drink lots of water. Consider collagen supplements too. |
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47, former sunworshipper, skincare addict, oily T-zone, fair skinned, love Vita A, some hyperpigmentation, microneedler. |
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