Natural Peptides
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free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:08 am

Hi,

I have some Natural Peptides from Skin Actives and I am not sure how to use them. I've had them for about a year, so they may not be good anymore... But I was wondering on their safety, if they are light sensitive, and what would be best to incorporate them in, when to apply, do they interact poorly with any other actives?
http://www.skinactives.com/Natural-Active-Peptides.html

Quote:

Natural Active Peptides by Skin Actives, a mix of small size (below 5,000 MW) peptides derived from marine collagen. They will help with moisturizing and supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis. They are also likely to work as "matrikins," making your skin cells synthesize new collagen just as when the skin is damaged.

They say to mix it in lotion or seakelp bioferment. But is there any science behind natural peptides? Are there any precautions one should take?
Sorry if this has already been discussed, haven't been able to find a thread.

thank you!

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:30 am

fitgineer wrote:

Hi,

I have some Natural Peptides from Skin Actives and I am not sure how to use them. I've had them for about a year, so they may not be good anymore... But I was wondering on their safety, if they are light sensitive, and what would be best to incorporate them in, when to apply, do they interact poorly with any other actives?
http://www.skinactives.com/Natural-Active-Peptides.html

Quote:

Natural Active Peptides by Skin Actives, a mix of small size (below 5,000 MW) peptides derived from marine collagen. They will help with moisturizing and supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis. They are also likely to work as "matrikins," making your skin cells synthesize new collagen just as when the skin is damaged.

They say to mix it in lotion or seakelp bioferment. But is there any science behind natural peptides? Are there any precautions one should take?
Sorry if this has already been discussed, haven't been able to find a thread.

thank you!

There is not even an ingredient list to work from to be able to answer your question! Confused

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:49 am

I keep meaning to ask you what you mean when you say "peptides" because peptides is a pretty broad term! I think it might be stable as a powder but the issue of degradation is when it's in a liquid/cream form. They become unstable in water based formulas so I've read, and are apparently pretty fragile. The most common one I am familiar with is "Matrixyl" which when in a formula, I think you want air tight opaque sort of packaging for it. But usually powdered actives have a year or two shelf life. I'm not sure if that applies to peptides as well. But it appears that SA doesn't say what peptides are in it. I don't know what they mean by "natural peptides". hmm

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:54 am

egyptiangoddess wrote:

I keep meaning to ask you what you mean when you say "peptides" because peptides is a pretty broad term! I think it might be stable as a powder but the issue of degradation is when it's in a liquid/cream form. They become unstable in water based formulas so I've read, and are apparently pretty fragile. The most common one I am familiar with is "Matrixyl" which when in a formula, I think you want air tight opaque sort of packaging for it. But usually powdered actives have a year or two shelf life. I'm not sure if that applies to peptides as well. But it appears that SA doesn't say what peptides are in it. I don't know what they mean by "natural peptides". hmm

LOL. Sorry but SA can be a bit bad about information, she leans more towards her ready made products or actives you can add to one of her bases! Shock

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:55 am

Hence my confusion. I guess I should email them and ask, hopefully they'll answer my questions Smile

I'll update this thread if they do.

Thanks for replying!

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:56 am

fitgineer wrote:

Hence my confusion. I guess I should email them and ask, hopefully they'll answer my questions Smile

I'll update this thread if they do.

Thanks for replying!

Word that question carefully, Hannah can be a bit testy to say the least! Bad Grin

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:01 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

fitgineer wrote:

Hence my confusion. I guess I should email them and ask, hopefully they'll answer my questions Smile

I'll update this thread if they do.

Thanks for replying!

Word that question carefully, Hannah can be a bit testy to say the least! Bad Grin

So I've heard... the last time I asked about the EO in Vit C serum and their photosensitivity, they completely ignored my email!!!

free skin care · Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:16 pm

fitgineer wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

fitgineer wrote:

Hence my confusion. I guess I should email them and ask, hopefully they'll answer my questions Smile

I'll update this thread if they do.

Thanks for replying!

Word that question carefully, Hannah can be a bit testy to say the least! Bad Grin

So I've heard... the last time I asked about the EO in Vit C serum and their photosensitivity, they completely ignored my email!!!

Yes and people have been met with unpleasant responses on the forum there! I joined and read, but never pose questions! Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:23 pm

Answer from SA:

Quote:

The peptides will not dissolve in oil. We use them in several water based serums and creams. They "play well" with everything.

In Arizona the weather is so dry that I doubt the peptides "caked" because of humidity. They will dissolve when you add water.

These are peptides obtained by breaking down (hydrolysis) of fish collagen.

Peptides are not photosensitive.

I still don't know what kind of peptides they are exactly. Hydrolized fish collagen seems vague...

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:38 pm

fitgineer wrote:

Answer from SA:

Quote:

The peptides will not dissolve in oil. We use them in several water based serums and creams. They "play well" with everything.

In Arizona the weather is so dry that I doubt the peptides "caked" because of humidity. They will dissolve when you add water.

These are peptides obtained by breaking down (hydrolysis) of fish collagen.

Peptides are not photosensitive.

I still don't know what kind of peptides they are exactly. Hydrolized fish collagen seems vague...

Well, seems Hydrolyzed collagen is just that only you know this came from fish now!:

Hydrolyzed collagen is produced from collagen found in the bones, skin, and connective tissue of animals such as cattle, fish, horses, pigs, and rabbits. The process of hydrolysis involves breaking down the molecular bonds between individual collagen strands using heat and either acid or alkali solutions. Typically, with skin sourced collagen, hides are put in a lime slurry pit for up to 3 months, loosening collagen bonds; the hides are then washed to remove lime, and the collagen extracted in boiling water. The extracted collagen is evaporator concentrated, desiccated with drum driers, and pulverized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolyzed_collagen

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:40 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

fitgineer wrote:

Answer from SA:

Quote:

The peptides will not dissolve in oil. We use them in several water based serums and creams. They "play well" with everything.

In Arizona the weather is so dry that I doubt the peptides "caked" because of humidity. They will dissolve when you add water.

These are peptides obtained by breaking down (hydrolysis) of fish collagen.

Peptides are not photosensitive.

I still don't know what kind of peptides they are exactly. Hydrolized fish collagen seems vague...

Well, seems Hydrolyzed collagen is just that only you know this came from fish now!:

Hydrolyzed collagen is produced from collagen found in the bones, skin, and connective tissue of animals such as cattle, fish, horses, pigs, and rabbits. The process of hydrolysis involves breaking down the molecular bonds between individual collagen strands using heat and either acid or alkali solutions. Typically, with skin sourced collagen, hides are put in a lime slurry pit for up to 3 months, loosening collagen bonds; the hides are then washed to remove lime, and the collagen extracted in boiling water. The extracted collagen is evaporator concentrated, desiccated with drum driers, and pulverized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolyzed_collagen

So they would do nothing then!

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:44 pm

I won't say they will or won't as it really depends on the molecular size of what you have as to whether it penetrates the skin, which is my understanding what they do when making this for skin care purposes?

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:45 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

I won't say they will or won't as it really depends on the molecular size of what you have as to whether it penetrates the skin, which is my understanding what they do when making this for skin care purposes?

Indeed. Or they might even signal my skin to produce less collagen if they actually penetrate the skin...

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:33 pm

Some sage words on this thread so far. Just as you can't chop words into bits, then shuffle the order and still make a conversation, you can't chop full size proteins up into peptides or amino acids and expect an effect like the parent protein.

"Natural Active Peptides by Skin Actives, a mix of small size (below 5,000 MW) peptides derived from marine collagen. They will help with moisturizing and supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis. They are also likely to work as "matrikins," making your skin cells synthesize new collagen just as when the skin is damaged."
I'd like to see Skinactives prove anything more than moisturising (amino acids are rather expensive humectants). I'm surprised they don't recommend a pH given that active peptides will be denatured (structurally and functionally altered) in very acid or alkaline solutions.

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:44 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Some sage words on this thread so far. Just as you can't chop words into bits, then shuffle the order and still make a conversation, you can't chop full size proteins up into peptides or amino acids and expect an effect like the parent protein.

"Natural Active Peptides by Skin Actives, a mix of small size (below 5,000 MW) peptides derived from marine collagen. They will help with moisturizing and supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis. They are also likely to work as "matrikins," making your skin cells synthesize new collagen just as when the skin is damaged."
I'd like to see Skinactives prove anything more than moisturising (amino acids are rather expensive humectants). I'm surprised they don't recommend a pH given that active peptides will be denatured (structurally and functionally altered) in very acid or alkaline solutions.

They said "they play well with everything"...

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:49 pm

fitgineer wrote:

Firefox7275 wrote:

Some sage words on this thread so far. Just as you can't chop words into bits, then shuffle the order and still make a conversation, you can't chop full size proteins up into peptides or amino acids and expect an effect like the parent protein.

"Natural Active Peptides by Skin Actives, a mix of small size (below 5,000 MW) peptides derived from marine collagen. They will help with moisturizing and supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis. They are also likely to work as "matrikins," making your skin cells synthesize new collagen just as when the skin is damaged."
I'd like to see Skinactives prove anything more than moisturising (amino acids are rather expensive humectants). I'm surprised they don't recommend a pH given that active peptides will be denatured (structurally and functionally altered) in very acid or alkaline solutions.

They said "they play well with everything"...

I got slammed for this before and the pH does not much matter really on these, Collagen molecules are very large and can not penetrate the skin, hydrolyzing them and breaking the molecular chain so they penetrate will not mean the magically reform into Collagen again once in the skin.

They won't do any harm since you already have them, I just do not believe they will do any good!

free skin care · Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:03 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Some sage words on this thread so far. Just as you can't chop words into bits, then shuffle the order and still make a conversation, you can't chop full size proteins up into peptides or amino acids and expect an effect like the parent protein.

"Natural Active Peptides by Skin Actives, a mix of small size (below 5,000 MW) peptides derived from marine collagen. They will help with moisturizing and supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis. They are also likely to work as "matrikins," making your skin cells synthesize new collagen just as when the skin is damaged."
I'd like to see Skinactives prove anything more than moisturising (amino acids are rather expensive humectants). I'm surprised they don't recommend a pH given that active peptides will be denatured (structurally and functionally altered) in very acid or alkaline solutions.

You have it right FF. There is no proof. Hydrolysis of collagen from dead critters produces any number of protein fragments... oligopeptides, peptides, and amino acids. Such peptides can have all sorts of actions, and if you make them randomly you never know what you will get. Many of these stimulate proteases, which translates to breakdown of skin structures and matrix proteins. Some peptide fragments are pro-ROS, generating free radicals. Some may compete with good peptides for receptors, or cause receptor downregulation. Many other potential negative consequences. Altogether, a crap shoot at best.

Some hydrolytics are quite good at breaking proteins all the way down to amino acid (AA) constituents. But AA's are dynamic, and compete with one another for transport mechanisms across cell membranes. So creating an excess of one AA extracellularly could cause a relative deficiency of another AA intracellularly. The natural AA's in the stratum corneum are 70% derived from keratohyalin granules, and are thus histidine-rich. Throwing large amounts of other AA's in there can imbalance the whole system, which is one of the essential pathways in maintaining skin pH (some AA's are good at buffering, some not). This a very bad thing for aging skin.

My earliest career direction in medicine was clinical nutrition, and amino acid metabolism was my research area. Here is a classic paper on the subject form one of my mentors:

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPNS%2FPNS24_02%2FS0029665165000344a.pdf&code=792f59a68d26de29215d621ee092fd38

To summarize, formulations with amino acids (and protein hydrolysates to a lesser but more random extent), are counterproductive in anti-aging dermatology. As Firefox points out, they can provide a humectant effect (but then so many things can). But unless you know precisely what AA's are deficient (in a disease state or condition), you will generally risk doing far more harm than good by slathering on these carcass-derived nutrients. Said protein nutrients are all too by the way abundant in the Western diet, and the body maintains AA balances in health quite cleverly. Why mess with a good thing.

free skin care · Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:46 am

Weird. I've never heard of just "natural peptides" before. hmm

However, fitgineer, there was something about topical fish collagen in that book I think.

And thanks for that information DrJ. Smile

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:20 am

Could you put this into floral water to make a toner? You can add some carrier oil or essential oil. Also you can make your own lotion or cream.

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:51 am

fitgineer wrote:

They said "they play well with everything"...

DarkMoon is spot on. SkinActives claim suggests they are not peptides with any activity in the skin, or the person responding to your message knows absolutely nothing about basic biochemistry! If you research proteins you will discover the effect of strong alkalines and acids is universally accepted, ditto the tight relationship between structure and function. Think what happens to milk when you add vinegar, what happens to an egg when you cook it, what happens to meat when you marinate it in wine. All these are the proteins being denatured.

free skin care · Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:00 pm

I don't know what Natural Peptides? What's the function of it?

free skin care · Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:00 pm

I have purchased products from them in the past and didn't find them useful at all. waste of money.

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