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Skin needling frequency and needle length recommendations
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare
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hydrogeogirl
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Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:51 pm      Reply with quote
Hi fellow skin care enthusiasts!

I've been giving myself 4 to 6 deep (1.5 mm sometimes 2.0 mm) skin needling treatments from 2008 to present, long time.

I recently did an internet search and found that Dr. Desmond Fernandes (essentially the skin needling inventor) published updated skin needling treatment recommendations in April 2020.

I summarized his article and reported on my choice to follow his recommendations in this article:

Update on Frequency and Needle Length for Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy (CIT), Skin Needling, or Dermarolling (however you refer to it)

http://www.skinremodelingdiy.com/blog/update-on-frequency-and-needle-length-for-skin-needling

Take good care of yourselves!
HGG

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61 in 2/2021. Author of "Skin Remodeling DIY, An Introduction to the Underground World of Do-It-Yourself Skin Care" May 2015. Sunscreen/skin protection, DIY C serum, firming serums, Retin-A, OCM, FlexEffect from 2002, lymphatic massage, 6 rolls/year 1.5 mm derma roller from 2008, Infrared/Red LED from 2009, Galvanic/Ultrasound intermittent
summer2004
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:33 am      Reply with quote
Thank you so much hydrogeogirl for sharing the latest research of Dr. Des Fernandes with us.

I am a dedicated follower of Dr. Des Fernandes and trust his works.

I have followed a protocol that was suggested by him few years ago and found that I could see results faster than needling at an one-month interval.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN40mdO3HbM
hydrogeogirl
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Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:47 pm      Reply with quote
hydrogeogirl wrote:
hydrogeogirl wrote:
Hi fellow skin care enthusiasts!

I updated my original post to describe my frequency better.

I've been giving myself 4 to 6 deep skin needling treatments per year (1.5 mm sometimes 2.0 mm) from 2008 to present, long time.

I recently did an internet search and found that Dr. Desmond Fernandes (essentially the skin needling inventor) published updated skin needling treatment recommendations in April 2020.

I summarized his article and reported on my choice to follow his recommendations in this article:

Update on Frequency and Needle Length for Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy (CIT), Skin Needling, or Dermarolling (however you refer to it)

http://www.skinremodelingdiy.com/blog/update-on-frequency-and-needle-length-for-skin-needling

Take good care of yourselves!
HGG

_________________
61 in 2/2021. Author of "Skin Remodeling DIY, An Introduction to the Underground World of Do-It-Yourself Skin Care" May 2015. Sunscreen/skin protection, DIY C serum, firming serums, Retin-A, OCM, FlexEffect from 2002, lymphatic massage, 6 rolls/year 1.5 mm derma roller from 2008, Infrared/Red LED from 2009, Galvanic/Ultrasound intermittent
hydrogeogirl
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Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:52 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Summer2004,

I am so glad that you enjoyed the article! I feel the same way about Dr. Fernandes, he is knowledgable, innovative and a skin care genius.

I am on my 6th 1.0 mm skin needling treatment in 5 weeks tonight. I am glad that this will complete my sessions (it is a commitment) and I look forward to seeing the results in January.

Thank you for sharing the youtube link!

HGG

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61 in 2/2021. Author of "Skin Remodeling DIY, An Introduction to the Underground World of Do-It-Yourself Skin Care" May 2015. Sunscreen/skin protection, DIY C serum, firming serums, Retin-A, OCM, FlexEffect from 2002, lymphatic massage, 6 rolls/year 1.5 mm derma roller from 2008, Infrared/Red LED from 2009, Galvanic/Ultrasound intermittent
lizza_johnson_10
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Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:33 am      Reply with quote
hey hydrogeogirl..!! Thanks for sharing this information to me. It help me a lot.
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Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:01 am      Reply with quote
hydrogeogirl wrote:
Hi Summer2004,

I am so glad that you enjoyed the article! I feel the same way about Dr. Fernandes, he is knowledgable, innovative and a skin care genius.

I am on my 6th 1.0 mm skin needling treatment in 5 weeks tonight. I am glad that this will complete my sessions (it is a commitment) and I look forward to seeing the results in January.

Thank you for sharing the youtube link!

HGG


Hydrogeogirl - so when you are in this process of 2 months, do you use your retin A at any point between rolls or just before you start the 4-6 week process?
lizza_johnson_10
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Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:31 am      Reply with quote
There are the following things that we have to consider during skin needling treatment:

1.The ideal length of penetration into the skin.
2.The ideal interval between sessions of skin needling.
3.What topical or injected products would help us to get even better results.
hydrogeogirl
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Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:22 pm      Reply with quote
Hello!

lizza_johnson_10 and Christina knight - thanks for sharing, its good to know this news is useful for folks!

DebM - "so when you are in this process of 2 months, do you use your retin A at any point between rolls or just before you start the 4-6 week process?"

Well, to clarify the process is 6 1.0 mm rolls in 5 weeks, which is really something notable (not that easy to do).

I use retin-A (tretinoin) 0.1% maybe 2-3 times week and a DIY 0.5% retinol daily and DIY 20% vitamin C mornings which prepares my skin for the skin needling treatment and optimizes collagen production (Dr. F says 4X!!).

I use fresh aloe vera leaf during skin needling and afterwards as much as possible. I also make a DIY ACE cream using my retinol base plus vitamin A capsule squeezed in, oil soluble vitamin C and vitamin E. On about the third day I use retin-A once and begin using the 20% vitamin C daily and ACE cream until the next skin needling treatment, in about 3-4 days. I also made a DIY large molecule hyaluronic acid serum that I put on under the ACE cream. I consumed A,C, and E foods and nutraceuticals as well

While my skin is tender during the first two days after the treatment, I only use high concentrations of non-aggressive forms of A and C in my skin care preparations (ACE cream).

It's been 3 weeks from my last skin needling treatment (six 1.0 mm treatments in five weeks. I have no expectations until next January thru October 2021, cuz that's how long it takes to see the results Smile

lizza_johnson_10 - I directly followed Dr. F's recommendations: six-1.0 mm skin needling treatments in five weeks with copious use of non-aggressive vitamins A and C and also E.

Note: In the reference article Dr. F recommended 4 rolls in 3 weeks, but he has done 6 rolls in 5 weeks and wants to research 6 in 5 so I chose to do the 6 in 5 and honestly it was a little too much for a first try. If you choose to try, I suggest 4 in 3 weeks.

Take good care of yourselves!

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61 in 2/2021. Author of "Skin Remodeling DIY, An Introduction to the Underground World of Do-It-Yourself Skin Care" May 2015. Sunscreen/skin protection, DIY C serum, firming serums, Retin-A, OCM, FlexEffect from 2002, lymphatic massage, 6 rolls/year 1.5 mm derma roller from 2008, Infrared/Red LED from 2009, Galvanic/Ultrasound intermittent
nickcorona
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Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:20 pm      Reply with quote
Does this new 1mm needling depth apply even to acne scarring, or is the deeper depth required to see improvement?
nickcorona
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Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:27 pm      Reply with quote
summer2004 wrote:
Thank you so much hydrogeogirl for sharing the latest research of Dr. Des Fernandes with us.

I am a dedicated follower of Dr. Des Fernandes and trust his works.

I have followed a protocol that was suggested by him few years ago and found that I could see results faster than needling at an one-month interval.


So, in this video, Dr. Des claims that he's seen the best results on himself when needling every other day. Does anyone know what depth he uses?
hydrogeogirl
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Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:09 pm      Reply with quote
nickcorona -

I do not remember reading specifics, but my impression is that deeper scars etc, require longer needles. I primarily used 1.0 mm during my sessions but I also used 1.5 mm on some areas during those sessions.

I have not read about Dr. F's daily protocol but am guessing that he is using shorter needles for daily or every other day treatments.

Take good care of yourself.
HGG

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61 in 2/2021. Author of "Skin Remodeling DIY, An Introduction to the Underground World of Do-It-Yourself Skin Care" May 2015. Sunscreen/skin protection, DIY C serum, firming serums, Retin-A, OCM, FlexEffect from 2002, lymphatic massage, 6 rolls/year 1.5 mm derma roller from 2008, Infrared/Red LED from 2009, Galvanic/Ultrasound intermittent
summer2004
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Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:25 pm      Reply with quote
nickcorona wrote:
Does this new 1mm needling depth apply even to acne scarring, or is the deeper depth required to see improvement?

You can get the answer from the paper ofDr. Des Fernandes:

"......Wrinkles, stretch marks and so forth only require 1.0 mm, whereas burn scars, acne scars and so on require a deeper penetration, that is, about 3.0 mm."

He also mentioned: "The problem with deeper 3.0‐mm needling is that it generally needs to be done with infiltrative local anaesthesia or general anaesthesia, which limits its availability; however, the results are very impressive and worth the added trouble of receiving anaesthesia."

In addition, he stressed the importance of bleeding:
"In summary, the needle has to be long enough to prick blood vessels in the papillary dermis. Shorter needles into the epidermis cannot produce equivalent results because bleeding and the release of platelet‐derived growth factors are the driving force for the changes created by skin needling, and no bleeding essentially means no results."
angelsc
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Thu May 06, 2021 5:37 am      Reply with quote
Sorry ro interrupt ... i just want to share my experience about some products that are not a miracle but still helped my skin a lot.

website is cskin-natura . com
nellcy
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Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:04 pm      Reply with quote
Hi @Hydrogeogirl, do you have an update on how intensive microneedling that you were doing in Sept 2020? Would love to read an update if you have time, thank you!
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