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Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:48 pm  |
Maybe this is not the right forum for such a post, but lately my appearance has caused me to spiral into an unhealthy depression and I kind of just need to get my thoughts out.
I am experiencing lots of unfortunate signs of aging, which might not be a big deal to me if I wasn't only 25. But at this age, I already have crow's feet and underye wrinkles, hollowed circles under my eyes, lines around my mouth, and a drawn-out, gaunt looking face that seems to have lost all its vitality and plumpness. It's not all in my head, either. I've gotten comments about how old I look, I never get carded, and a few times I've been mistaken for someone 30 or older. Someone told me recently I could pass for 35.
The weird thing is I have never been the slightest bit vain until now -- now I find myself looking in the mirror all the time, obsessing. In addition, I have been avoiding social events with friends from the past because I don't want them to notice how poorly I'm aging. Of course, it's also no fun to be the only one of a group who doesn't get carded -- in fact, it's devastating. I particularly avoid female friends because I know they will notice these changes in me more than the guys.
All in all, I am a mess lately and this is really affecting my self-esteem and virtually all aspects of my life. I feel pathetic to be letting it get to me, but I can't stop comparing myself to others my age and being horrified at the condition my skin is in.
I've bought a ton of products, seen some specialists, had a few different types of treatments, but nothing really seems to be helping my appearance at all and I feel like I'm wasting a ton of money that I just can't afford to lose. I kind of wonder whether I should just give up and let things happen. Another part of me feels I should go at this full-force and do everything I can, however much money or effort it takes, to try to recover some self-esteem.
Like I said, I guess I'm just posting this to "get it all out." Thanks for listening. |
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Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:38 pm |
Hi Janis - Please don't feel your attitude is pathetic! It's perfectly understandable, and any woman would probably feel the same way. Maybe you should describe your skin type, etc., as well as the exact products you've used that didn't work for you, along with your current regimen. Then other forum members will be able to offer more specific advise.
I know what you mean about other womens' scrutiny -- it can be absolutely withering. I'm sure you can get a lot of feedback here, but it would help to know more details. Also, is it possible that your diet may be playing a part in all of this? It's something important to consider. You talked about not being carded -- I hope you're not drinking too much, as alcohol will definitely take a toll on your skin.
Good luck! |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:53 am |
Oof, I was in quite a mood last night. Things seem a little better in the day. Thanks for replying.
I will describe my skin.
First off, let me say that I can admit to getting too much sun in my youth (some memorable burns), usually in a naive attempt to ward off acne. Although for the most part I have always been pale as a ghost. Also, I was a smoker for two years (thankfully quit).
My skin is very pale. Within the last year, I've lost a lot of fat in my face. It used to be round, now it sort of enlongated with a lot of hollows (under the eyes, even in the cheek area). As I mentioned, I have lines under my eyes, some crow's feet, and mouth wrinkles. And my skin seems to have almost a grayish pallor and a new, vaguely leathery texture. Add to this some pleasant reminders of adolescent acne in the form of some pitted acne scars/discoloration. And I still get some active acne.
The changes have been dramatic in the past year. Before that I didn't know much about skincare. I was just using a Neutrogena cleanser, the occasional drugstore face mask, and not much else.
And I noticed the signs of aging kicking in, I went through a phase of a few months where I bought a ton of eye creams and anti-aging products from the drugstore. Of course, a lot of these don't do anything.
Finally, I got prescribed Retin A. I suppose it has improved my texture a little bit, but nothing like I was hoping.
And I finally started going regularly to an esthetician. She sold me a ton of stuff I can't afford, but at least she has me on some sort of structured regimen. I use a glycolic gel (10%) daily, and she has me coming in for fairly regular deeper glycolic peels. Against her advice, I still use the Retin A a few times a week on top of this. I was really hoping for more dramatic results with the glycolic and although I wouldn't claim they are useless, I'm not really seeing the effects so far and I've had at least five over a three month period.
She has suggested IPL (Intense Pulsed Light) to me but I'm a little wary because she just got her license and it sounds kind of scary. Also, the research I've done about this procedure seems inconclusive.
My main problem right now are the eye wrinkles (undeye and crow's feet). Seriously, is there any way to get rid of these things without resorting to Botox or fillers? Because I will never take that route, no matter how bad I feel.
Wow, I wrote a novel here! 
Anyone who actually waded through that have any advice for me? |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:19 am |
I sent you a Private message Janis. Check your inbox.
Wendy |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:22 am |
Please go to an MD and have general health checked out type II diabetes and polycystic ovary syndrome (and probably other conditions) can lead to wrinkles. Have you been particularly stressed recently? Excerise like yoga is stress relieving and increases circulation.
Good luck. |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:59 am |
| When things happen that rapidly, something else may be going on; I'm thinking along the lines of vitamin deficiency & a host of other stuff. I agree with Sharky that the first thing to do is get a thorough check-up & THEN start thinking about creams etc. You mentionned gauntness in your face, have you lost weight recently? |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:17 am |
I agree about seeing a physician first too. I do sympathize because even though I'm now 29, I've been prematurely aging over the past several years as well. It's so frustrating to see all of your friends with still perfect skin and wonder what's wrong with you. I think a lot of it has to do with genetics, but the fact that we both had a lot of sun exposure in our younger years is definitely paying it's toll.
Have you been using a vitamin c serum? I ask because you said your complexion was dull and grey and a good vitamin c serum is a great way to give your skin it's glow back. I make my own since it's so much cheaper to do so and easy. See the DIY thread if you want more info on it. And hang in there! |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:23 am |
Are you drinking enough water? Dehydration can make skin look very old.
Also, I agree a check-up with yoru doctor is a good idea. Nutritional supplements can help also. Hyaluronic Acid is good for the skin taken internally.
Also I think a good Vitamin C Serum is a must! It really does (over time) add a radiance to the skin.
Once you has determined that it is not a medical condition, and that you are well-hydrated....there are many lovely products that can help you get a more youthful glow.
Lori |
_________________
Normal/Dry~slightly sensitive~usually clear~fine lines on forehead and neck~Age 36 |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:05 am |
| Ditto about a thorough physical exam. Sudden change isn't generally normal. Also in the meantime, you may want to be careful about using retinoids (or any other acids) too much around your eyes. They're very drying and your eye area has thinner more sensitive skin. When I overdo it, I get crinkly and lined and have to back off. Sometimes less is more. |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:42 am |
Hi Janis!
I am sorry to hear that you feel that way! It IS so depressing when people guess you are older and you feel badly when you look in the mirror. What products are you using on your skin now? Maybe they are too harsh? I use Cetaphil to cleanse my face, Rose Water&Witch Hazel to tone, plus eye cream and day/night cream. I also have an at home microdermabrasion kit that I use a few times a week. I really like it(Neutrogena). Also, make sure you drink PLENTY of water. Maybe dehydration is causing some of your lines. You could also get a RX for a retinol cream like Retin-A to help with lines(Must use sunscreen!!)If I can think of anything else, I'll post it!
HTH! |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:53 am |
Thank you everyone for your advice and compassion.
And Wendy, I read your messages and will look into the sites/products you recommended, so thank you for that.
As far as the Vitamin C stuff, I would like to get myself started with that, but I have to admit I am clueless. I read about the DIY kits, etc., and I just get so lost.
I kind of need someone who is more experienced to hold my hand through it, i.e. tell me the EXACT products to buy (either links or exact names), and specific steps to take. If anyone here has the knowledge and desire to help me out with that, I guess send me a private message... or hey, just post here because I'm sure your advice could benefit others besides me.
There's probably been multiple threads already that have addressed this issue, and if so maybe someone can link me up. I've done a preliminary search and although found some good tips, didn't get the kind of very specific guidelines I need.
Sorry to be annoying/demanding, I just have to admit that I need help wading through all the info here. |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:13 pm |
First, look at your relatives - are they aging well? This may be genetic. If you can rule that out, then a complete physical should be considered to rule out a systemic disorder. Once that is ruled out, then you can start to look at a specific regime to improve your skin.
Having had "memorable burns" during your younger years will certainly affect aging of your skin. Using Retin-A regularly is a strong step in the right direction. Retin-A can actually reverse and repair sun damage. Usually takes about 6-8 months!!! of regular use before you will see serious results. Take a picture now and then take another one in a few months so you can see what's happening to your skin.
The other product that also helps to reverse sun damage is....sunscreen. Yes, regular protection from the sun allows your skin a chance to repair itself. You have to use it DAILY and use a stable one. My favorite is LaRochePosay Dermo-Pediatrics spf40/PPD 17 SPRAY (lwsue on ebay, wasabina on ebay,www.physea.com). It leaves a nice matte finish and is excellent protection against UVA and UVB rays.
Also, sun visors, sunglasses, shades on car windows, driving gloves....all help to protect your skin from any further sun damage.
Daily use of a glycolic product (10%) plus weekly glycolic peels is TOO much. Glycolics are great for dissolving the glue that holds dead skin cells together. The dead skin is loosened and falls off revealing new skin underneath. BUT, if that new skin is not protected properly from the sun, you can really damage that skin. Retin-A will make your skin sun-sensitive for the first three months or so as well. So, I can't emphasize it enough...Sunscreen, sunscreen, sunscreen!
I would also recommend that you alternate your glycolic product with your Retin-A each night. Neither should be used during the day when your skin will be exposed to UV light. Best to use these at night. Also, if you are going to use the glycolic on an almost daily basis then I would cut those peels back to maybe every six weeks. Your skin only has so much capacity to renew itself and if you overexfoliate, again, you will damage it, thin it and end up with worse skin than before.
Vitamin C serum will help to firm and thicken your skin. It will also help to give it a "glow" and even out the tone and texture of your skin. If you don't want to DIY, buy a good commercial brand (Skinceuticals, Vivier, Cellular Skin Rx, PSF are all popular here and sold through the EDS shopping link)and use it every morning. C acts like a sponge to soak up free radicals that are formed when your skin is exposed to smoke, UV rays, and other pollution. Taking C and E internally also helps to up the plasma level in your skin so you are getting good antioxidant protection. C will take about 3-4 weeks to show a result so be patient.
For me, sunscreen, Vitamin C serum, and Retin-A are like my holy trinity of skincare. They are the backbone of my regimen. I flesh that out with wrinkle-relaxers for spot-treatment of crow's feet/frown lines (Cellular Skin Rx Relax-A-Line available here on EDS). I also use different moisturizers depending on the time of year to keep surface skin protected and plumped up. Regular hydration internally is necessary, too, of course.
If you want to get off to a super start and have the money, I would look for a good aesthetic dermatologist/plastic surgery center in your neighborhood and get a few opinions on which laser treatment might be best for you. Even a deep chemical peel (TCA possibly) could yield good results. Keep in mind that these will cost more and you will have to suffer through significant down time while your skin heals, but they give quicker results. The "yestheyrefake" board has a list of laser procedures/peels and could help you to find out more about what could work for you.
Good luck! |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:43 pm |
Hi Janis,
The description of your pre-mature aging sounds so similar to my own experience. I've always been taken for older than I am, and for years believed this was due to a *mature* attitude (talk about denial!!!). I also noticed a sudden shift in my complexion at age 28 whereby my peaches and cream skin became VERY dull, clouded and lost a lot of it's firmness. Looking back (I'm 38 now  ), I know a lot of the problem was a result of poor diet habits. I was thin (because I could CONTROL my weight, if nothing else!), and ate very little in terms of healthy food. My body was especially lacking in protein and essential vitamins. Making matters worse was the ton of coffee and diet coke I drank every day. I rarely drank water and did not know that all the caffeine I was consuming was dehydrating the hell out of my body. I worshiped the sun, partied more than I should of, and did not allow my body enough down-time to recuperate between work and play. All in all, I lived a pretty typical 20-something lifestyle. My question to you is, are you doing the same with poor diet? Or trying to stay thin(ner) by means of eating less?
I doubt I would have stopped and taken pause of my bad diet habits if it were not for my skin aging so fast. It never dawned on me that this is an *organ* (in fact, my LARGEST organ), and that it operates and requires nutrition from the INSIDE as much as the out. I had zero awareness that what you eat and drink has a direct impact on how your skin will age. We tend to focus on the sun, and smoking, and alcohol as being the culprits to poor skin (which they are, don't get me wrong). HOWEVER, I personally do not think there is enough emphasise on proper nutrition and hydration. The beauty and cosmetics' companies want us obsessed with *treatments* and quick-fix skin care solutions (that always cost a load of money if they're effective in any way), because they know women will do or pay almost anything to retain their youthfulness.
Sometimes revisiting the very basics of what you are doing to your body every day is a good starting point before graduating to IPL (or some other cosmetic treatment). In addition to good food, lots of natural/spring water and some form of exercise, I found vitamin supplements REALLY worth while (look for a good Multi because your skin needs anti-oxidents such as Beta Carotene, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, and Selenium to fight off free-radicals that age you). Exfoliating (all over), and switching to an *organic* skin care line also helped me.
My skin definitely looks better than it did in my 20's. It's only now that I am seeing the normal signs of aging in terms of wrinkles (crows feet are just beginning and a lined brow are my main concerns these days). I still do not look younger than I am, BUT, I do not look years older either. People generally place me in my late 30's. Which is a big step forward considering a guy I met on my 28th birthday (while dancing in a club, no less  ) asked me very sincerely if I was celebrating my 40TH  . That, my friend, was one of the most depressing day's I've ever had! |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:32 pm |
I agree with several others who mentioned it could be something going on inside you. Get a physical from an Internest, if possible.
How your family ages is important too. Take a look at your relatives. The good news is you can age better than they did. 
You mentioned you are fair but did not mention s/s. Betterat40 gave you some good advice about getting s/s. This would be the only product I would buy for 6 months or longer. Use up what you have even tho most of it won't do much. During that time...do your homework, stay out of the sun and get a good pair of sunglasses. You need big lenses that block UV light and curve around your face if possible. That will help with the under eye lines and crow's feet. Oh, and stay away from that woman who treats your face. In 6 mos. when/if you go to someone, you will know as much, or often more, than they do. |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:42 pm |
| Oh yes! Huge sunglasses are a must! I have a pair I just love! |
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Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:44 pm |
Hi!
I agree totally with the excellent suggestions of using sunscreen, and sunglasses. Also taking a look at your relatives for clues.
Nutrition is SUPER important. Like someone else said, if you're not eating enough protein (or healthy fats or fruits & veggies), or WATER, your skin will show it.
I think the frequent trips to the esthetician are a waste of your money (Sorry!). There's only so much that glycolic can do, and that you can do at home.
I would invest in sunscreen, emu oil and copper peptides (for improving the health of the skin barrier and getting rid of damaged proteins). Keep using your retin A, get a good vitamin C serum. Use vit C and sunscreen in the morning, your Retin A, copper peptides and emu oil at night. The emu oil will NOT cause you to break out, although the copper peptides can have an adaptation phase that includes "purging."
If you would like more info. on any of these products, or a recommendation on a book or two for the nutritional supplements that are good for skin, please send me a PM. |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:46 am |
Thank you again everyone for your advice.
I have to admit I'm a little overwhelmed. I guess that's one of the problems with skincare, that everyone has their own opinions on things, and once you start asking around, you feel like you get bombarded with a lot of information.
As far as my esthetician's use of glycolic ... well, the gel she has me use every day doesn't seem that strong and I only use a little of it. Her plan as far as the in-office peels was to do an intense series of them in the beginning to have me seeing dramatic results, and then have me taper off and go in just for maintenance as time goes on. I've done some research and it seems that this is done fairly commonly. But I'm not sure; you guys seem to be suggesting that this is not the route to take.
I know that I am scared of using higher concentration glycolic products on my own, for fear of damaging my skin. And also, let's be honest, how can something you buy on the Internet be as safe, potent, or effective as something administered by a trained and licensed professional? Am I being naive here?
As far as Vitamin C, I definitely want to integrate that into my skincare routine and I have received a lot of suggestions here as far as products go. But I have also heard a lot of warnings that Vitamin C is a pretty tempermental product and requires very specific application and conditions. Are there products / requirements for Vitamin C that are sort of universal, that everyone can agree on? |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:14 pm |
Hello again Janis - Glycolic products are good for acne issues and to remove dull, dry skin. The only harm I see in getting the treatments you described is if you fail to use an effective sunscreen faithfully. It's thought by some medical professionals that part of the rise in skin cancer diagnosis is due to increased dermal vulnerability created by widespread AHA use. If you're going to use products that thin/remove the stratum corneum, you absolutely must take precautions when it comes to sun exposure. Barring any health or diet problems as the cause of your situation, I think peels are a reasonable way to go. If they don't give you the results you're looking for, then try other things. When I was younger and beginning to show my age a little (I was freaking out too -- this is natural), maybe in my early to mid 30s, the use of glycolic products was the answer for me and I used various ones for many years afterwards. They got rid of the dry outer layer, eliminated fine lines, and gave me a more polished and healthy glow. Fortunately, I always used sunscreen as well which has saved my skin.
I'd keep it simple and try one thing at a time, and be patient for results. It's easier to tell what truly works when you don't try several things at once. |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:46 pm |
Thanks.
Now I have another question.
If I am going to be using a combination of glycolic, Vitamin C, and Retin-A, what sort of schedule should I have with these three? I don't want to overdo it, and I know that's a lot of products.
I was thinking something along the lines of:
Vitamin C serum in the morning and alternating between Retin A and glycolic at night time.
Does anyone have any opinions/tips on this?
My skin is pretty hardy. I hardly ever experience negative effects with glycolic or Retin-A. Maybe a little dryness, but nothing too extreme. |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:32 pm |
| You're absolutely right about separating the Retin and the Vit C. Vit C is a photoprotectant so it's great to use in the morning, and Retin A is best at night. You're also right on in not using your glycolic on the same day as Retin A. You'll just have to experiment and see if your skin can handle an alternating schedule like you describe. I would never be able to handle it, but my skin is pretty sensitive. |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:42 pm |
I would use a Glycolic Cleanser (like MD Formulations) every morning (if you can tolerate it) before your C Serum, and then just the RetinA at night.
In fact, that's usually what I do (except the morning I use Dermalogica Microfoliant - twice a week).
Lori |
_________________
Normal/Dry~slightly sensitive~usually clear~fine lines on forehead and neck~Age 36 |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:46 pm |
Hi Janis - You've basically described my routine: I alternate SkinCeuticals Retinol (weaker than Retin-A, which I could never tolerate) with an AHA (IS Clinical Firming Complex or SC Intense Line Defense) at night. If my skin gets too dry (or even if it doesn't), I just moisturize (currently using emu oil) at bedtime once in a while to give my skin a break.
I use SC CE+Ferulic (Vit.C serum) EVERY morning after cleansing. This really calms any irritation and will hopefully reduce/prevent my freckling, but it takes a long time for Vit.C to deal with pigmentation issues. Even if it doesn't help with my freckles (which aren't really bad -- I just don't want them to get out of hand), I love how it feels on my skin. Plus, C helps with sun protection. About 10-15 minutes after applying it, I apply sunscreen (Avene SPF50+ Spray or Creme) and then makeup.
I also use PSF Pumpkin Enzyme Peel about 3 or 4 times a month to slough off dry skin buildup.
Since joining this forum, I've been tempted by dozens of other products that people have raved about, but often, I just don't know how I'd incorporate them into my routine. I believe if one layers too many products, there's a very good chance that their efficacy will be diminished and/or cancelled out by contraindications. But it's because of this forum that I've discovered some really great products that work wonders for me. I only started using Vit.C serum last summer (due to all of the raves here), and while I've used AHAs and retinoids for years, the brands I've tried since checking in here are superior to what I was using before.
So, I guess I feel you're on the right track, since I basically do the same thing. My skin is in very good condition and I'm almost 54! I don't have wrinkles, and just a few fine lines, and I hate to admit that I'm a smoker -- go figure. But I can't stress enough that you must use a good sunscreen -- this is numero uno when it comes to anti-aging products. |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:03 pm |
| m.april wrote: |
| Since joining this forum, I've been tempted by dozens of other products that people have raved about, but often, I just don't know how I'd incorporate them into my routine. I believe if one layers too many products, there's a very good chance that their efficacy will be diminished and/or cancelled out by contraindications. |
I know exactly what you're saying. Right now my plan includes: cleanser, moisturizer, Vit-C, sunblock, gylcolic and Retin A. I mean, that's overwhelming! I wish there was a way to simplify things. I also fear that some products will, like you said, counteract others.
Do we have any professional skincare peope here, dermatologists or estheticians, etc., who can testify that it is safe/effective to use all three (gylcolic, Vitamin C, Retin-A)? Or does anyone have any solid scientific info on this?
I'm just wary of doing more harm than good... |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:28 pm |
You should become a RAW foodist!
Raw food definitely turns back the clock. |
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Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:32 pm |
Hi Janis,
I've been tinkering with my routine for a few months now since discovering this site. Before that I was working with my aesthetician first and I was also using the SC line like m.april, retinol alternating with intense line defense (glycolic acid) and vitamin CE+Ferrulic every morning. I believe this is a solid routine. It's just a matter of finding which brands you like and at what concentrations. I am sticking to the holy trinity but upping to Retin-A and looking for a cheaper glycolic at a similar %. I think betterat40 also has a similar routine. |
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