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Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:50 pm  |
What do you think? Do they cause our skin to stop producing the right balance or as much of it's own natural oils and lipids to keep the skin healthy? Cause our skin detects that there is enough or too much already present on the skin so it doesn't need to produce it's own, and then creates a bad cycle of always needing the moisturizer or more of it? And esp. if you already have oily or normal to oily skin, why use anything at all? Shouldn't enough moisture and natural oils be produced by the skin itself? From internal hydration or whatever....
" From Skin and Allergy News, April 1997:
Many moisturizers and emollients sold by major skin care companies delay the healing of irritated and damaged skin and make the situation worse by inhibiting natural skin repair. According to Dr. Halker-Sorenson (Skandborg, Denmark), new computerized instruments have demonstrated that many popular moisturizers increase skin damage in methods similar to skin irritants.
Nor are skin barrier creams an answer, such as those containing petrolatum and lanolin. Dr. Charles Ellis (Ann Arbor, Michigan) commented, "In my experience and from what I can garner (from the literature), I don't think they work very well. What we need is to protect the skin surface and to heal the skin from within, by putting the skin in a situation in which normal skin repair can occur."
Virtually all of popular moisturizers and emollients sold by skin care companies contain high concentrations of detergents and detergent-like chemicals, despite 40 years of scientific evidence that these detergents damage the skin and degrade the skin's natural protective function. Also damaging to skin are many of the dyes and optical diffusers used to give the appearance of healthy skin.
Another mistake is to add to skin creams certain lipids that occur naturally in the skin hoping that this replenishes skin lipids and improves skin health. However, recent research has found that adding natural skin fats and lipids to skin creams causes a reduction in the skin's natural biosynthesis of skin fats and lipids so that, in a few weeks, the skin is in worse condition than before.
Dry skin is caused by two problems: (1) Damage to the skin's protective barrier which produces excessive water loss through the skin, and (2) A reduction in the concentrations of the skin's water-holding sugars and proteins the proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans (GAGs). Copper-Peptides act by helping to repair the skin barrier and raising proteoglycans and GAGs. Waxes and oils seal the skin's surface and prevent excessive water loss. Cosmetic moisturizers loosen the skin's protective barrier and hydrate (wet) the skin proteins but have the long-term effect of damaging your skin."
"However, defining the best lipids in such mixtures has proven very difficult because some lipid mixtures that help short-term skin repair eventually decrease the skin's natural synthesis of lipids (by a biochemical process called "feedback inhibition") and ultimately produce a damaged skin that is very low in natural fats and oils." |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:41 pm |
| Quote: |
| Do they cause our skin to stop producing the right balance or as much of it's own natural oils and lipids to keep the skin healthy? |
I think so BRYG. I often think peoples' problems here of dryness and oiliness are a result of these kind of problems and these kinds of products. |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:45 pm |
Well, given the fact that my husband has no need or use for moisturisers and his skin looks better than mind I might actually agree!!
Juliette |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:21 pm |
My opinion is if you don't need to use a moisturizer than don't, except where there are NO oil glands such as the eye area, neck, around the mouth. Moisturizers only make wrinkles look good, but they will not get rid of them one bit.
And yes, if a person continues to ravage their skin, day in day out and plaster cream all over, this does not give skin a chance to heal on its own. There is truth in that article. |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:57 pm |
The founder of Monave Mineral Make-up has an article about skincare that is very interesting.
Working with clients over the years, I'm astonished at how the skin condition of so many women is. After careful research, my conclusion is that diet and strong cleansers account for much of the problems that women experience with their skin. Many of us moan that men have beautiful skin without really doing anything to it. Bingo! We are voracious consumers of cleansers, toners, creams, eye-creams, alpha-hydroxy products, skin lighteners, rejuvenating products. Combine that with poorly grown and processed food ingredients, stressful lifestyles, and polluted air, and it's no wonder. Many of the most beautiful faces are washed with water, and little else...
I can't count the number of times that I've heard someone tell me that an hour after they clean their face, they have oily breakthrough and shine. The answer is in the problem. If this is happening so soon after cleansing, it's probably due to cleansers that are stripping the skin. Our skin has sensors, and when we strip our natural oil mantle, which is there to protect our skin from dryness, our body produced oil to replace that which was stripped. So the opposite effect is achieved.
Here is my recommendation for oily, or severaly dry skin. The advice may seem radical, and way too simple, but try it for a few weeks, and see what your skin tells you. Morning Routine:
1.A morning cleansing routine should not consist of much more than some warm water and a wash cloth in the shower. If you haven't done so, install a purifier that will remove chlorine and other chemicals that can dry our your skin and scalp. Follow up with a pure floral hydrosol or distillate toner. Do NOT use anything with alchohol in it. One way that alchohol is added to a product is through extracts, so if you see extracts listed as the first ingredient in a toner, that means that herbs and flowers were soaked in alchohol and then used in the product. If the extracts are low on the list, you may be able to continue using the product. Chammomile hydrosol is good for oily skin, neroli or rose for dry or mature, and lavender for normal skin. Floral water is not the same thing. For a moisturizer, use a simple cream with ingredients that you can pronounce. A good moisturizer should be made of water, hydrosols, plant oils, and emulsifiers. Beeswax is a wonderful emulsfier. Many facial creams have complicated-sounding emulsifiers (emulsifiers bind oil and water together), so reserach what their actual ingredients are before trusting them on your face.
If you have oily skin, consider using a pure plant oil for your daily moisturizer. A great one is hazelnut oil. It is astringent, so although it is an oil, it will begin to balance the sebum production of your skin. Another nice option is cold-pressed olive oil, available at a natural-foods store. I know, you think that this sounds preposterous, but give it a try for a week.
Evening routine:
Cleanse with a simple cleanser made of clay and honey, or handmade soap of coconut, palm and/or olive. You can use pure plant oils, such as olive or apricot seed to remove your makeup. If you are addicted to your liquid cleanser, turn it over and read it. If it says "Sodium-Lauryl Sulfate", or Sodium-Laureth Sulfate", use it to wash your skin instead. That is,in fact, what those ingredients were really made for; as industrial surfactants. Think about it this way: What do you use to clean your leather purse, or wooden furniture? Would you use dishwashing liquid? No! Whay not? Because it would dry out your leather or wood, and it would begin to crack. THAT is what you are doing to your face! Treat your face as gently as you would your fine leathers and you'll begin to notice a difference.
Follow up with a toner, as outline above. Follow up with a moisturizer, or a simple oil serum.
For dry skin, the oil serum should have oils of apricot kernel, or avacado.
For normal skin, jojoba oil is a great balancer
For oily skin, hazelnut is wonderful. Carefully chosen essential oils added to the serums will benefit your skin as well. So there you have it! My prescription for turning your skin around. Don't forget how important exercize and water intake is in order to keep your internal body cleansed and free of toxins. |
_________________
25; sensitive, combo, acnegenic; love Alima! |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:11 am |
Thanks! That makes sense  Great read |
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31, Combination normal-dry skin, loves CSRx, PSF, A'kin, Decleor, ACV, Jojoba oil! |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:26 am |
I totally agree with both articles and thank you to Byrg and thatgirlangie for posting them.
In 1999 I was 28, my skin was oily but in really good shape with an even tone all over, no scars. I used Cinique's Almost Makeup with a touch of powder over top. I used oil of olay unscented original moisturizer, just a touch when I needed it. I used cetaphil gentle cleanser on and off to cleanse with even though I was oily, it worked well for me.
At 28, I had no real wrinkles or fine lines but my pores were large and my skin didn't look as refined as it had in the past. I had it in my head that as I got older, my pores should be smaller. I know better now, sun tanning and age don't make your pores smaller. So, when a friend introduced me to a line of cosmetics and skincare, I decided to use all of the oily skin products. It was all out war on my pores, I was taking no prisoners. I used the harsh soap cleanser, sodium lauryl sulphate, bha toner with a huge concentration of alcohol. Also used an oil controlling moisturizer that really stressed my skin out. I broke out and started flaking, not small flakes but big ones. I have psoriasis and started getting it on my face. By the time I figured out it was the harsh cleansers and other products, a year later, it was too late. I now have scars from the breakouts and highly reactive skin, it's 7 years later and I'm obsessed with trying to get my skin back to a semblance of what it once was.  In all fairness to those products, pregnancy and breastfeeding hormones really messed with my skin as well but it really all started with those harsh products.
I now use oil to cleanse with, pure oil lately, no emulsifiers. I am trying numerous actives though to try to fade the scars and melasma. Not with much success but I’m not giving up! Yet! |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:10 am |
Thank you girls for posting that! That's just fantastic and very timely. I've been trying to simplify my routine, making my 3rd list now with even fewer steps
I'm also concerned about forming a dependance, not only on skincare products but also on supplements. So I'm taking a break from a lot of things, to let my system get its natural defenses in top shape . |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:08 pm |
| I've never heard of hazelnut oil before. Guess its time for me to go off on a search. |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:15 pm |
I don't know. I'm still confused by all this. It says that dry skin is caused by damage to the skin's protective barrier. Don't AHA's and BHA's damage the skin's protective barrier?
And the idea of the oils and moisturizers would apply to all oils, even just straight plant oils. Yet so many of them have other properties besides for the fats and lipids that are good for the skin and provide topical nutrition, which is why I am interested in them.
When I broke out, I stopped using everything to clear it up. I stopped the BHA which was causing redness and irritation and I stopped all the oils which caused the breakout. I just used castile soap and clay to cleanse and put nothing else on my face at all. It doesn't look great. But it is clearing up and healing quickly. It also doesn't even feel really tight or dry. Because it looked a little dry though I put a light mixture of aloe vera and sesame oil on but it didn't do much.
I also don't think it is true that guys have wonderful skin, and they often use harsher cleansers on their skin. Cause they unless they are into skin care don't buy special delicate facial cleansers and just use soap on their face. My husband does nothing but the shower body soap thing and occasionally whatever moisturizer he can find like coconut oil or something. But his skin is not great at all. Huge pores, deep wrinkles and crows feet etc. Not that he cares. But I always wonder if it would help if I could get him to use the right serum or eye cream or something to soften that up. I doubt it but I can't help thinking. I also never took special care of my skin, but I wish I did. I don't know the answer though. Dr. Pickford where I got that article just suggests things like Olive Squalane for moisture, but that is a lipid replenisher, thus further confusion.... |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:27 pm |
| Well, I guess I don't totally agree on the moisturizer front, but I do on what causes dryness, the harsh cleansers are not good for our skin at all. And in my opinion, most cleansers are harsh. Gels and foaming are just out of me, I haven't found one I can use. I do use acids too and moisturize with jojoba or squalane. I think the main thing is to avoid irritation on a day to day basis. |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:42 pm |
Byrg,
how's your husband's diet? I found that my husband started getting blemishes and spots (on forehead) when I made him use an AHA cream, as an experiment. He stopped using it and everything went back to normal. He only washes with olive oil soap all over, from head to toe basically, and his skin is very well hydrated and wrinkle-free.
His diet is good though, he's more obsessed with good food than I, even. |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:40 pm |
How old is your husband? Mine is 37. His diet is pretty good. Besides for all the espresso he drinks, he eats very healthy. Healthier then me. Lots of salads and nuts and fruit, whole grains etc. Almost all organic and he never eats out. So no fast food or fried food and oils etc. He only occasionally eats sweets or bread. Maybe it's just genetic. He has really thick skin. He looks good most of the time, it's mostly when he smiles and up close around his eyes.
Guys usually don't wear daily sunscreen either.... |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:51 pm |
| Mine will turn 37 in August. Sounds about right - same kind of diet. Probably genetics then... |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:12 pm |
I believe that one is never too young for good skin care. That does not mean slathering on 6 different serums, heavy creams, lotions, etc. etc, but using the right kind of mild cleanser and sunscreen and then other products as needed.
As a parent if I can teach my child to properly cleanse and protect his skin and use a light moisturizer when needed he hopefully will not go through a lot of trouble in the future.
I think that a lot of people get caught up at the makeup counter at the mall where sales people disguised as skin care consultants sell all that they can to get commission... Not all of these sales people will sell anyone anything, but too many will... and then customers get confused as to what their skin really needs...
As long as there is a market for these types of products there will be scavangers trying to pull people in... and even if the products that they are trying to hawk are good, that does not mean that they are right for everyone.
Thankfully there are places like this one where we can discuss the issues and educate ourselves.  |
_________________
*****My 5 Star Rave***** Just loving everything about ICE ELEMENTS!!! You HAVE to try the 2 minute miracle exfoliating gel... It is to die for! |
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Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:42 pm |
well, I have a story as well: my best friend (female, 39, sensitive but normal skin, with no visible pores, tending to redness sometimes). she went to a dermatologist with that mentioned redness and he told her to stop using any skincare, except a very gentle cleanser (laroche-posay) and some almond-oil, if necessary for moisturizing. he explained her that our skin is perfectly o.k. when it's left alone and we don't demage it's abilities to regenerate with cosmetics.
the first time (ca. 1-2 weeks) were hard, her skin was dry. but then, it really normalized and since that she has the cheapest skincare ever (almost no costs . . .). she's still sometimes very envious to my bottles and jars and tubes but her skin looks lovely and healthy. |
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Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:16 pm |
| lin23 wrote: |
well, I have a story as well: my best friend (female, 39, sensitive but normal skin, with no visible pores, tending to redness sometimes). she went to a dermatologist with that mentioned redness and he told her to stop using any skincare, except a very gentle cleanser (laroche-posay) and some almond-oil, if necessary for moisturizing. he explained her that our skin is perfectly o.k. when it's left alone and we don't demage it's abilities to regenerate with cosmetics.
the first time (ca. 1-2 weeks) were hard, her skin was dry. but then, it really normalized and since that she has the cheapest skincare ever (almost no costs . . .). she's still sometimes very envious to my bottles and jars and tubes but her skin looks lovely and healthy. |
Hi lin,
Your post gave me hope I just started using oil for cleansing and moisturizing. My face has been quite dry in the morning. Hopfully it is just as a phase like what your friend experienced. |
_________________
~~ super-sensitive, dry, dermatitis prone, rosacea/northern calif ~~ |
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Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:17 pm |
| In my opinion men look better older mainly because their faces have less collagen and more muscle to begin with. So when collagen starts diminishing they've got less to lose and lines don't show so much. Men seem to have much more success more quickly with facial exercises than women. Just imagine how they could look if they actually looked after their skin. |
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Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:11 pm |
I don't think soo...they don't make us dependent on them I use moisturizers on and off and when I'm lazy and don't put moisturizer I find the my skin is still the same
I use moisturizer to treat the dryness I get from Tretinoin/Lactic peels. But I still do fine without them
IMO, all genders can benefit to using MILD detergent/SLS free/correct PH Cleanser. That is the first step to correctED skincare!!!
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31, Combination normal-dry skin, loves CSRx, PSF, A'kin, Decleor, ACV, Jojoba oil! |
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Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:58 pm |
| I think a lot of it has to do with gender and genetics. Men tend to have thicker skin than women, which might explain why they can get away with being more lazy with their skin. My boyfriend has very nice thick skin and goes in the sun all the time and though he and I are really young, he has no acne or skin flaw which makes me very jeluos. I don't know about the rest of you but I've always had thinner skin, and dryness is something i suffered with since I was in my early teens. I'm 21 now and moisturize day and night. I use a gentle cleanser, no aha or bha stuff, and exfoliate gently once a week. I don't think that's too much for the skin. Genetics has to play a part too because some women/men get away with being lazy with their skincare and somehow look amazing. Others that do that suffer the consequences. |
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Extremely fair/sensitive skin(mild rosacea)that burns very easy.acne is rare/skin is dry.27 years old. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:21 am |
I'm starting to lean towards "less is more" too on the skincare front. I read an article too that suggested that if you are using a product and you notice a difference in your skin, and then you stop using that product and your skin goes back to the way it was before or worse - is the product that you were using actally helping your skin or just disguising any problems? It kinda made sense, and this has happened to me. In fact the only product that I cna think of that didn't do that was the Vit C serum.
With AHA's etc, they actually "damage" the skin, and stimulate collagen formation because of this "damage", so it kicks starts the body's natural repair process and thicker skin presumably. |
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