What are the dangers of Copper Peptides?
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free skin care · Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:07 am

Alien wrote:

......the efficacy studies for Skin Biology and CPs were done on the First generation GHK and specificaly for wound care (pressure or diabetic ulcers).....

Alien,

Oh, I always thought that the studies of the benefits of the 1st generation serum was for both wound care and wrinkle improvement.

Thank you for this info.

I am desperately looking for topical products and facial exercises to diminish my NL fold; while GHK serum & Skin Signals seem to be my answer; but now......

free skin care · Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:56 am

Technically they do address wrinkle improvement.. But, one quickly finds out that is only in conjunction with skin wounding i.e. dermarolling, strong acids, etc

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:52 am

Hi Alien,

Thx for enlightening me about the way how CP works; at this moment, I am not at the point using strong acid nor dermarolling.

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:55 pm

I started with GHK in May, then when I used that up, started Skin Signals in October. This stuff goes a long way so is a great value. I dermarolled halfheartedly twice already but plan a vigorous roll this weekend and similar every month until this current Skin Signals is used up. Then depending on results, I will continue with the next strongest level or try something totally different.

Someone on the SkinBiology forum has been using CPs for years to bring old acne scars to the surface. What she has gone through sounds pretty disgusting but she has gotten great results. I've noticed my acne recessed pits haven't really changed. A small raised scar has slightly shrunk. I'm hoping dermarolling will have an all around positive result.

You have to use glycolic or lactic acid or AHAs or similar at night to break down your skin before using CPs the next morning. Otherwise, you get the uglies.

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:11 pm

softskin -

I've had luck this past year getting acne scars to heal smooth and flat. I had bad breakouts from some skin care products my skin did NOT like and it caused my skin to rebel w/ constant breakouts. Even for months after I quit using those products.

While my 'scars' (actually - post inflammatory hyperpigmentation-PIH- marks) were still healing, the CPs really helped those to heal nicely. I had some that looked like they would've been a box car or an ice pick, but w/ the CPs and spot treatments of acids, they came out smooth. Smoother than the surrounding skin, even.

I hope you keep plugging away at it. It is such a slow process. The roller should really help. Be very careful w/ cleaning it, tho.
you might consider that Dermastamp for bad boxcar type acne scars. that might work too. Good luck on removing your scars.

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:16 pm

Alien, I agree the CPs work best on 'wounds'. That's where I've had some remarkable results - a couple of acne 'wounds'.

But, I've also had firming results with the CPs, so I think they can do more that just work on wounds. I never used an acid or roller on my eyelids and those firmed up like I would never have expected.

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:38 pm

foxe: Do you know if the Dermastamp is available for purchase online direct to consumers or whether it needs to be administered by a licensed healthcare professional?

Thanks.

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:31 pm

m1rox wrote:

foxe: Do you know if the Dermastamp is available for purchase online direct to consumers or whether it needs to be administered by a licensed healthcare professional?

Thanks.

Nova Clinic has a home version. Bethany and I both jumped and bought this when it became available, but we didn't realize it was the tiny needle size!

http://www.dermarollers.com/stamp.html

free skin care · Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:18 pm

If any of you have actually used the Dermastamp, was it effective?

free skin care · Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:14 am

SoftSkin wrote:

I started with GHK in May, then when I used that up, started Skin Signals in October. ......You have to use glycolic or lactic acid or AHAs or similar at night to break down your skin before using CPs the next morning. Otherwise, you get the uglies.

Hi Softskin,

When you started to use GHK, did you dilute it with water or oil? If so, what was the ratio?

How do you find Skin Signals? Did you dilute it in the beginning too? I also would like to try it if I use up GHK.

May I know what your skincare regime is?

In the am, I cleanse & use sunscreen after DIY Vit C (if I do not get irritation from Retin-A).

I use Retin-A in the pm; thus I may not be able to use AHA /acid to remove dead skin cells. Any suggestion?

Remarks: I use chemical sunscreen now & may use physical one later. I know that physical ss cannot be used with CP.

free skin care · Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:43 am

summer - switch to physical sunscreens. They are much better for your and the environment. The use of chemical sunscreens is destroying the reefs of our oceans. If it's doing that to reefs, imaging what its doing to our own lakes and rivers. Read this info on why: Biodegradable Sunscreens

Dr P doesn't like the zinc ones since he thinks the zinc and copper negate each other. But, I asked him about a MMU (which had zinc in it) and that was fine. The zinc in powder form does not penetrate the skin and would not interfer w/ the CPs. Also - applying the CPs at night would not interfer w/ an application of sunscreen in the AM. Finally, Dr P has also said you can put CPs on and follow that w/ Emu oil for a protective layer before applying a SS w/ zinc in it. Just use a SS that does not have micronized particles in it and you should be fine. ZiO and TiO2 sit on top of the skin unless they've been micronized.

In fact - I've been using a zinc based SS (MMU) for the past year and frequently had used a CP in the AM (actually 2X/day) to try and speed up healing of some blemishes I had. The AM application still worked. I could see the blemish looking better by day's end. I usually spot treated in the AM too.

As for your Retin A and acids - why not alternate nights using those? Retin A really doesn't need to be used nightly after your skin has been used to it for a while. (Like after a year).

A GHK CP shouldn't need to be diluted - it's the gentlest one out there. I never diluted mine and I used mine on the eyes - which are the most delicate spots to treat on the face.

free skin care · Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:04 am

I know you had bad results Avalange, and couldn't believe what Dr P said to you when you posted on a thread a little while back as I was given almost opposite advice, but I just want to add that I had good skin and didn't encounter any problems with the CPs at all. So although I appreciate and understand your advice, I'm just putting this out there as I didn't get the same reactions to you and so others may not also. Its the same with Retin A, you can read of some people whose skin can't take it at all, but there are numerous studies proving its effective at repairing damaged skin and maintaining healthy skin too.

I think with any remodeller out there, your always going to find that it works for some, and not for others.

avalange wrote:

Yes, I strongly discourage using CPs if you have youthful, undamaged skin. Count me in as one of those people whose skin was ruined for more than one year from very sparing, measured use of GHK-copper from SB. So, to mountaingirl, my skin was ruined (and has never quite recovered, but still is MUCH better) at the age of 30. i just think that cps are not for everyone, and it's not worth the gamble to find out. because, when you are one of the ones for whom it DOESN'T work, it's pretty bad. not like a break out, but a loosening of skin, major loss of elasticity, and enlargening of pores, bumpiness, etc. that lasts a year.
now, if you have severely damaged skin and have tried everything else, it might be worth a try.
But, to reprise Alien's caution, cps are NOT an ANTI-AGING regime. I'm one of the ones as well that Dr. P told he thought it was ludicrous that I would even use his product in the first place.

--avalange

free skin care · Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:08 am

Oh Foxe, you reply is so informative; ten q!

Yes, I did read your post of Biodegradable Sunscreen & felt that I should change to physical one 'cos I'd do something for our environment & next generation.

For Retin-A, I have managed to use it each night since last Nov.

Again, thx for your advice & it does boost my confidence in using GHK.

Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:37 am

Foxe,
What physical sunscreen do you use? Or do you just use Mineral Makeup? I would like to find a good non micronized one.

I've been using Skin Biology copper peptides for 2 years now with great results.

Smile

free skin care · Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:26 pm

Di wrote:

Foxe,
What physical sunscreen do you use? Or do you just use Mineral Makeup? I would like to find a good non micronized one.

I've been using Skin Biology copper peptides for 2 years now with great results.

Smile

Di - This past year I've been using 302's Recovery Minerals . It also can be used as a MMU for fair skin. It has an SPF of 30. Since it is pretty light in color, in the summer I would add another MMU on top for more coverage & color. The additional MMU had an SPF of 20, so extra protection! My face showed no signs of sun this summer at all (I would need to use a self tanner for the face because of that).

I'm going to Mexico next week and plan on picking up some Mexitan (you can find a link on the link I porvided earlier). That one looks really good. I also have a DDF one that I will use occasionally. It's a physical one and is matte and doesn't look too white.

free skin care · Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:26 pm

Dear Sean,

I'm glad it is working for you. The point I was trying to make was that if you're not ready to take the risk that you might get immediate and long-lasting damage from using the product, then you probably shouldn't use it.
Dr. P made it very clear that he thought it was ludicrous that someone of my age would even consider using cps (I was 30 at the time), so I'm surprised that he would directly recommend his products as an anti-aging regimen. They clearly are, as you said, remodelling agents.

SeanySeanUK wrote:

I know you had bad results Avalange, and couldn't believe what Dr P said to you when you posted on a thread a little while back as I was given almost opposite advice, but I just want to add that I had good skin and didn't encounter any problems with the CPs at all. So although I appreciate and understand your advice, I'm just putting this out there as I didn't get the same reactions to you and so others may not also. Its the same with Retin A, you can read of some people whose skin can't take it at all, but there are numerous studies proving its effective at repairing damaged skin and maintaining healthy skin too.

I think with any remodeller out there, your always going to find that it works for some, and not for others.

avalange wrote:

Yes, I strongly discourage using CPs if you have youthful, undamaged skin. Count me in as one of those people whose skin was ruined for more than one year from very sparing, measured use of GHK-copper from SB. So, to mountaingirl, my skin was ruined (and has never quite recovered, but still is MUCH better) at the age of 30. i just think that cps are not for everyone, and it's not worth the gamble to find out. because, when you are one of the ones for whom it DOESN'T work, it's pretty bad. not like a break out, but a loosening of skin, major loss of elasticity, and enlargening of pores, bumpiness, etc. that lasts a year.
now, if you have severely damaged skin and have tried everything else, it might be worth a try.
But, to reprise Alien's caution, cps are NOT an ANTI-AGING regime. I'm one of the ones as well that Dr. P told he thought it was ludicrous that I would even use his product in the first place.
I didn't just have bad results, the product ruined my skin for over a year. As with all products, consumers should be informed about the potential risks as well as the potential rewards. what makes cps different from other over the counter skincare actives is that it's not about it working or not working, it's about it either giving you great results OR damaging your skin.

--avalange

--avalange

SeanySeanUK wrote:

I know you had bad results Avalange, and couldn't believe what Dr P said to you when you posted on a thread a little while back as I was given almost opposite advice, but I just want to add that I had good skin and didn't encounter any problems with the CPs at all. So although I appreciate and understand your advice, I'm just putting this out there as I didn't get the same reactions to you and so others may not also. Its the same with Retin A, you can read of some people whose skin can't take it at all, but there are numerous studies proving its effective at repairing damaged skin and maintaining healthy skin too.

I think with any remodeller out there, your always going to find that it works for some, and not for others.

avalange wrote:

Yes, I strongly discourage using CPs if you have youthful, undamaged skin. Count me in as one of those people whose skin was ruined for more than one year from very sparing, measured use of GHK-copper from SB. So, to mountaingirl, my skin was ruined (and has never quite recovered, but still is MUCH better) at the age of 30. i just think that cps are not for everyone, and it's not worth the gamble to find out. because, when you are one of the ones for whom it DOESN'T work, it's pretty bad. not like a break out, but a loosening of skin, major loss of elasticity, and enlargening of pores, bumpiness, etc. that lasts a year.
now, if you have severely damaged skin and have tried everything else, it might be worth a try.
But, to reprise Alien's caution, cps are NOT an ANTI-AGING regime. I'm one of the ones as well that Dr. P told he thought it was ludicrous that I would even use his product in the first place.

--avalange

Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:23 pm

Thank you very much, Foxe

Di Smile

free skin care · Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:04 am

I have checked the website of Procyte (Neova) and found that Nevoa has a SPF 20 which contains 2% zinc oxide.

Can I say that it is safe to sun zinc oxide sunscreen with CP serum at the same time? Or is the 2% insignificant for us to jump into a conclusion?

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate 7.5%, Octisalate 5%, Zinc Oxide 2%

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Stearate, Peg-100 Stearate, Polyacrylamide, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Laureth-7, Prezatide Copper Acetate, Bht, Arginine, Panthenol, Tocopherol Acetate, Squalane, Polysorbate 20, Dimethicone, Xanthan Gum, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Ultramarines.

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Day+Therapy+SPF+20_3584.htm

free skin care · Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:43 am

Sure, no probs I get your point.

As I said previously I wonder if you caught Dr P on a bad day or something, as I have heard him suggest it to people before on the forum under 30. I understand though that when you start seeing changes that are unpleasant, its of course difficult to proceed with them, but with any remodelling agents (even Retin A) the benefits don't show up immediately, but it takes consistent usage of them to show up.

I'm glad anyway that your starting to reverse the conditions that CPs gave you. I know you handled the situation a lot more calmly had I had those results. It seems to not react to everyone identically in the results it produces in the short term, but maybe they need more studies to be done on their effectiveness. Did you ever try Retin A in its place? Thats been around a lot longer and has far more scientific studies behind it - although it does cause iritation to many.

Sean

avalange wrote:

Dear Sean,

I'm glad it is working for you. The point I was trying to make was that if you're not ready to take the risk that you might get immediate and long-lasting damage from using the product, then you probably shouldn't use it.
Dr. P made it very clear that he thought it was ludicrous that someone of my age would even consider using cps (I was 30 at the time), so I'm surprised that he would directly recommend his products as an anti-aging regimen. They clearly are, as you said, remodelling agents.

free skin care · Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:57 am

summer2004 wrote:

I have checked the website of Procyte (Neova) and found that Nevoa has a SPF 20 which contains 2% zinc oxide.

Can I say that it is safe to sun zinc oxide sunscreen with CP serum at the same time? Or is the 2% insignificant for us to jump into a conclusion?

Active Ingredients: Octinoxate 7.5%, Octisalate 5%, Zinc Oxide 2%

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Stearate, Peg-100 Stearate, Polyacrylamide, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Laureth-7, Prezatide Copper Acetate, Bht, Arginine, Panthenol, Tocopherol Acetate, Squalane, Polysorbate 20, Dimethicone, Xanthan Gum, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Ultramarines.

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Day+Therapy+SPF+20_3584.htm

Procyte and Dr Pickart have a different opinion on what works w/ copper peptides and how to formulate the lotions containing them. Dr Picckart founded Procyte, but left (due to political and health reasons) and it seems he's had a few negative things to say about their CPs ever since. Not bad - just a few side remarks I've picked up on. He also disagres with their putting an acid (BHA) in the GHK formulas since HE says it will interfer w/ the GHK. That SS you mentioned also has chemicals in it which Dr P is so much against. Now you can see why he left - the board must've gave him too much a of a hard time on things.

In any case - 2% zinc is pretty small, so I would think it'd make a pretty good SS to use w/ CPs. I try to stay away from chemical Ss myself, tho

free skin care · Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:13 am

That sunscreen Neova is offering actually has a chemical in it that is not allowed (by federal law) in the snorkeling/scuba diving area in Mexico. This website explains what's happening to the world's reefs by exposure to chemicals in sunscreen and is promoting the use of Biodegradable SS made with either TiO2 or ZiO. I've switched to physical SS myself a couple of years ago after reading some info on it here and on other websites. This is the first time I've seen it being regulated by a government and I'm glad they're getting the word out.

This is what they say about some chemicals that are NOT safe for the reefs:

Quote:

Some of the most harmful ingredients that many sunscreens contain, (including some that are actually biodegradable such as those made by Nature's Gate), are PABA, octinoxate, oxybenzone, 4-methylbenzylidene camphor and the preservative butylparaben. If your sunscreen has any of these ingredients, it is not safe for use on the reefs.

Get rid of your chemical SSs that have these ingredients in them.

The SS that Skin Bio offers has a small % of TiO2 in it plus some antioxidants that offer some sun protection and the CPs (another antioxidant). It has worked pretty good for me, but I need a stronger one w/ ZiO in it for a full days exposure (my soon to come snorkeling in Mexico!). I used it last year in the Virgin Islands while lounging around the pool w/ no problem - but I did manage to find shade part of the time also. Snorkeling is a different story. I can never lay in one position that long by the pool!

free skin care · Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:14 am

Hit the wrong button!

free skin care · Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:53 pm

Sambi wrote:

I've come across a page that describes the difference between "real copper peptides" and "fake" ones...

It explains that:

Quote:

" Typically, other products claiming to contain copper peptides contain copper salts mixed with peptides or proteins. If the copper product has a greenish tint, that is a sure sign that copper salts, rather than copper peptides, were used. Copper salts are generally irritating and not easily utilized by the body. If the ingredients label simply reads: copper peptide, or copper peptides - it is not true GHK:Cu copper.

We suggest you check your product labels for GHK copper, which would be listed as Prezatide Copper Acetate, Copper Tripeptide-1 or Alanine/Histidine/Lysine Polypeptide Copper HC1. If you find that your product does not contain any of those ingredients listed above, then you do not have a true copper peptide product."

Is this true?

I tried checking out the ingredients in SkinBio's CuPeptides, and it doesn't have any of the above listed compounds/elements. Also, from reviews, their SuperCop or SuperCop x2 products seem to be greenish in colour, which matches what is said above about them using copper salts and not real copper peptides.

I then tried to research ingredients of diff products, and after like researches on 6 different well known products, the only one I found to match a real copper peptide formula, was the copper peptide provided by:

NuGlowSkincare[dot]com

I would like more feedback on this plz.

I always thought that SkinBio had the real deal and some of the best copper peptide products. However, when matching what is said above and comparing, it falls into the fake copper peptide category.

Any clues and anyone tried the products of NuGlowSkincare?

Thanks!

Hi Everyone,

I am a long time Skin Biology CP user & I came across this thread as well as a few others where I have found an awful lot of confusion regarding copper peptides. What really caught my eye on another thread (CP Serum Product Review) was someone mentioning that they suspected "blue dye" was being added to Skin Biology's CPs to get their deep color???

I brought these concerns to Dr.Pickart's attention & his initial reaction was "Who is making these statements?"

He then followed with this reply – From Dr. Pickart:

1.) I don't who is saying this about GHK and AHK. I am the inventor on the patents on the uses of GHK and AHK. I have published 17 review articles on the uses of copper peptides on skin and hair. I am now working on the 18th review which will be published this year.

Can someone tell me where this ignorant information is coming from?

As for what are copper peptides, if any peptide and copper salts are mixed in water, copper peptides are quickly formed. The binding affinities of peptides for copper ion are so high that for every molecule of free ionic copper, there are at least billion bound copper ions bound to the peptides. The amount of free copper is immeasurable and of no consequence.

The problem is to find the best copper peptides for rebuilding skin. The 2nd generation mixed peptides have the strongest skin renewal actions. But GHK-copper is more gentle and may work better on very sensitive skin.

AHK-copper is good for stimulating hair growth but I don't know why it would be used for skin repair?
................................................

2. Skin need not be broken for copper peptides to rebuild the skin.
Studies at three Universities found copper peptides alone to improve skin on women in their 50s. But removing long-term buried skin damage or hard scars may require a very vigorous approach (copper peptides,hydroxy acids, needling, abrasion) to allow the buried damage to be ejected from the skin.

Effects of topical creams containing vitamin C, a copper-binding peptide cream and melatonin compared with tretinoin on the ultrastructure of normal skin - A pilot clinical, histologic, and ultrastructural study.

................................................

Abdulghani A.A.; Sherr A.; Shirin S.; Solodkina G.; Tapia E.M.; Wolf.GottliebA.B.; Dermatology, UMDNJ, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School; Disease Management and Clinical Outcomes, 1998, 1:136-141.

A Clinical Evaluation of a Copper-Peptide Containing Liquid Foundatio and Cream Concealer Designed for Improving Skin Condition. Appa Y, Barkovic S, Finkey M B, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA Stephens, T, TJ Stephens & Associates, Inc, Dallas, TX Abstract P66, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting, February 2002

The Effect of Tripeptide to Copper Ratio in Two Copper Peptide Creams on Photoaged Facial Skin. Leyden J, University of Pennsylvania,Philadelphia, PA, Grove, G, KGL, Inc/Skin Study Center, Broomall, PA;
Barkovic S, Appa Y, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA; Abstract P67, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting, February 2002

Skin Care Benefits of Copper Peptide Containing Facial Cream. Leyden J, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA Stephens T, Thomas J Stephens & Associates, Inc, Dallas, TX; Finkey MB, Barkovic S, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA; Abstract P68, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting,February 2002

Skin Care Benefits of Copper Peptide Containing Eye Creams. Leyden J, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA; Stephens T, Thomas J Stephens & Associates, Inc, Dallas, TX; Finkey MB, Barkovic S, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA; Abstract P69, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting, February 2002

Copper Peptide and Skin, M.B. Finkley, Y. Appa, S. Bhandarkar, Cosmeceuticals and Active Cosmetic, 2nd Edition (ISBN: 0-8247-4239-7),
2005, pp 549-563

................................................

3.) Skin Biology has never used blue dyes. The intense blue color is due to the high levels of copper peptides in our products.

The only copper peptide product that I know that used blue dyes was Tricomin from Procyte.

Tricomin Solution Follicle Therapy Spray

Ingredients:
Purified Water, SD Alcohol 40B, Amodimethicone, Nonoxynol-10, Panthenol,
Polyquaternium-11, Polysorbate 60, Tallowtrimonium Chloride, Citric
Acid, Dimethyl Lauramine Isostearate, Linoleamidopropyl Ethyl Dimonium
Ethosulfate, Triamino Copper Nutritional Complex
(Alanine/Histidine/Lysine Polypetide Copper HCl), Methylparaben,
Benzethonium Chloride, Menthol, FD&C Blue #1.
................................................

I will post this info regarding Dr. Pickart's response to "blue dye" over on the other CP Serum thread as well to help unscramble the confusion.

Hope this Helps!

free skin care · Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:50 am

Hi, I was doing more research yesterday on CPs and I came across this website that talks about how CPs can reduce pore size

http://www.skinbio.com/improvepores.html

I realize Avalange and several others on this thread have mentioned that CPs are really for older people with more severe wrinkling/damage. Since I don't really have "aging" issues yet (I'm 31), I wonder if it's ok to attempt CPs just on the nose? Does anyone have any experience with the uglys in that area? I'm having difficulty imagining how bad it might get... I'd appreciate any advice or past experiences anyone can offer, thanks in advance!

free skin care · Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:04 pm

I think probably the main danger of copper peptides is over use. I've had to start taking periodic breaks in order to maintain results.

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