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Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:54 pm  |
Hi,
I've been reading so much about sunscreens and the ingredients that are good and bad. The question I have, is octinoxate good/bad and helpful/not helpful in regards to protecting the skin. I just started using the sunscreen from Shisheido and noticed it has zinc oxide & octinoxate but doesn't have titanium dioxide. So if anyone would be able to help me out I would so appreciate it. TIA! |
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:37 am |
qisem615 oxtinoxate is a chemical sunscreen ingredient. I believe that it blocks UVB rays and some UVA rays but would not be a good UVA blocker by itself. My understanding of this is that it is often combined with zinc oxide to offer a higher SPF without using a lot of the zinc oxide. Texture wise this allows a sunscreen to be thinner and not as whitening as one with only zinc oxide. Protection wise you have to be careful with sunscreen that combine octinoxate and zinc oxide as they do not offer as much UVA protection as zinc oxide alone.
Many of the sunscreens that I use contain octinoxate and zinc oxide. Octinoxate is the only chemical sunscreen that does not irritate my skin. I think that this is okay for everyday use but if you are going to be in the sun a lot make sure that the sunscreen has a high percentage of zinc oxide. It is more important to look at the zinc oxide percentage in these sunscreens than at the SPF to determine if they will offer adequate UVA protection.
Which Shiseido are you using? I use the Ultimate Sun Protection Cream SPF 55 which has 13.9% zinc oxide and offers good UVA protection. |
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:43 am |
I use the same. 13.9% is a high percentage of zinc oxide and my derm told me that zinc covers both uva and uvb rays. So, it is broad spectrum.
If you want a sunscreen that also has titanium...the super city block spf 40 (Clinique's). It has both but it also has octinoxate and octisalate. |
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:44 am |
I use the same. 13.9% is a high percentage of zinc oxide and my derm told me that zinc covers both uva and uvb rays. So, it is broad spectrum.
If you want a sunscreen that also has titanium...the super city block spf 40 (Clinique's). It has both but it also has octinoxate and octisalate. |
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:29 am |
TheresaL - Thank you so much for the information. I was getting so confused with all the facts.
Oooh, that's great to hear that your using the Ultimate Sun Protection Lotion. I'm currently using the one with SPF 33 for everyday but I'm about to head to the Carribean and went back to Shishiedo and got the lotion in SPF 55 and I also got the The Makeup Smooth Veil cream or something that has SPF 9 or 16 (but that has titanium dioxide plus octinoxate), the girl had said it would help too. It's like a base or primer before putting on foundation/powder. I haven't broke out, makes my skin looks smoother, it's my 2nd day using the smooth veil. I just don't want to burn or tan while on vacation.
I've been shopping for sunscreens left and right. I just wanted to know if the Shisheido will be good enough for me while in the Carribean. Because some info says that zinc & titanium is the best but I might break out from that. And there's mention of chemical vs. physical. Certain ingredients absorbs into your skin and that's not good. Or sunblock is better than sunscreen. I was like  ..HELP! |
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:33 am |
| skincarefreak - Thank you for the info. So maybe the shisheido spf 55 will be good on the island cuz it's so hot and sunny over there. |
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Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:42 pm |
| Since Octinoxate is a chemical ingredient, will it be degraded if it's used with a MMU? |
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Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:28 pm |
| qisme615 wrote: |
Hi,
I've been reading so much about sunscreens and the ingredients that are good and bad. The question I have, is octinoxate good/bad and helpful/not helpful in regards to protecting the skin. I just started using the sunscreen from Shisheido and noticed it has zinc oxide & octinoxate but doesn't have titanium dioxide. So if anyone would be able to help me out I would so appreciate it. TIA! |
It's so weird that you asked this because I've been meaning to transcribe an article I have that mentions 3 sunscreen ingredients that can create compounds that attack the skin (confusing me further also), octinoxate is one of them, although the article uses Octyl methoxycinnamate (INCI).
I couldn't find it online so I guess I'll get started here and apologize in advance for typos:
Article Title: Sunscreens Can Damage Skin
Author: Robert Trow
"excerpt reprinted from Les Nouvelles Esthetiques, April 2007"
"A recent study conducted by the University of California, Riverside, found that filters in sunscreen that help to keep out ultraviolet radiation can generate compounds that attack skin cells. In this study, researchers found: many ingredients in sunscreens penetrate the skin which is something not perceived as healthy plus sunscreens generate Reactive Species (ROS) which are harmful compounds.
UV filters in these products reduce the amount of UV radiation that can penetrate the skin. Over time, these filters penetrate into the skin themselves, below the epidermis, leaving the body vulnerable to UV radiation. Many sunscreen also contain nano particles that can also facilitate the penetration of the harmful ingredients into the skin.
The study found that three UV filters (Octyl methoxycinnamate, benzophenone-3 and octocrylene) which are widely used in suncreens generate naturally produced ROS. Additional ROS are generated only when the UV filters have penetrated into the skin. One must reapply the sunscreens frequently to help prevent this. The study proposes that sunscreens that combine UV filters with antioxidants may be a good solution as antioxidants have been shown to reduce UV induced ROS levels in the skin.
In skin that has been exposed to the sun, ultraviolet radiation is absorbed by skin molecules and can generate ROS, a harmful compound that can cause oxidative damage. In simple terms ROS reacts with cell walls, lipid membranes, mitochondria and DNA, leading to skin damage and increasing the signs of aging. This recent study is consistent with the finding of a 1999 study that suggested the cocktail chemicals involved in sunscreen could cause cell damage and lead to increased risk of cancer to due to the creation of free radicals.
There have been many studies on the topic of sunscreens and cancer over the past decade. While the conclusions vary, several prominent researchers believe that using higher SPF products can lead to higher rates of melanoma.
In one of the more widely quoted studies on sunscreen use that dates back to the early 1990s, Drs. Cedric and Frank Garland believe that using higher SPF sunscreens lead to individuals staying out in the sun longer via false sense of security coupled with the fact that UVA rays penetrate into the body and may well have a depressing effect on the body's immune system.
One of the larges studies of sunscreens and skin cancer conducted in Australia lead to the conclusion that while products do a better job protecting against ultraviolet rays (UVB & UVC), they do little to stop UVA rays which may play a significant role in the formation of melanomas.
Despite popular opinion to the contrary, there is little difference between an SPF of 15 and 60 despite common belief that there is a major increase in protection. In this case more may be worse. We also need to remember that SPF rating only measures the ability to filter out UVB rays not the more dangerous UVA. The Federal Government is fast at work revising the entire sunscreen rating system to help better inform us all.
What should we tell our clients about sunscreen use? It may be wise to use and SPF of 15 (gives you 90% protection) vs. 60 (only slightly more) as the higher rating may lead to staying out in the sun longer, providing a false sense of security and increasing the amount of chemicals that can both penetrate into the skin and exacerbate signs of aging and melanoma development.
The use of sunscreens that contain physical and chemical blockers plus antioxidants are best. It may also be wise to apply an antioxidant cream that contains vitamin E and C on top of your sunscreen to help limit free radical formation and the resulting chemical damage"
phewwwwww! |
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28 Fair skin, brown hair, blue eyes & acne prone combo skin |
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Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:14 pm |
I'm confused now. So Octinoxate is actually a bad ingredient for a sunscreen? But it's used usually with Zinc Oxide. It's so hard to find a sunscreen that has a high amount of Zinc Oxide and without all the other chemicals in it  |
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sanclementetech
New Member
 
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:41 am |
| Soleo Organics All Natural Sunscreen uses only zinc oxide. It is a micronized that is 200 times larger than what the body can absorb. It is water resistant, free of chemicals, NON GMO, no synthetic preservatives, no synthetic colors or fragrances, and is biodegradable. I have been using it for about a year now on my whole family including my 15 month old son since the day he was born. Soleo's website is www (dot) soleousa (dot) com. |
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yomartin
New Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
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Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:30 am |
We learned the hard way about Sunscreen products when we found out our son was diagnosed with Melanoma and passed away in March 2005. According to our Dermatologist the required ingredients to provide protection from both UVA and UVB rays are Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide. These are naturally incurring minerals and provide the best protection against the sun's damaging rays. I believe Blue Lizard was commissioned by the Australian Government because of the high rates of Skin Cancer (highest in the world) For more information google Blue Lizard to find out more information on this product. I like the sensitive version with SPF 30+ because it really works and it is one of the least toxic products on the market. I have very fair skin with freckles and have to be very careful when outdoors. When we travelled to the Caribbean this product saved me from getting tanned and sunburned. I really love it for this fact.  |
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Yvonne |
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Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:06 pm |
Actually, although Blue Lizard is a very good sunscreen, they are actually using very dodgy marketing techniques. It is an American product that is not even available in Australia. They are simply marketing it as Australian because in general Australia has very high sunscreen standards.
To clear up some confusion about Octinoxate - this is the new FDA name for Octyl Methocinnamate, they are the same ingedient. It is also known as ethylhexl methocinnamate.
If you are in Australia and are looking for a good quality, non greasy, chemical free sunblock try Natural Instinct SPF 30 which contains 15% zinc oxide in an oil free silicone base. The good - it really does prevent burning, is non greasy, no white cast and makes a good makeup base. The bad - it is a little drying (I use a moisturiser underneath it first) and can be difficult to spread, not because it is too thick but because it seems to dry almost on contact with the skin. You have to put in on quite quickly. |
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yomartin
New Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:17 am |
That is very interesting information and thank you for enlightening me. I found it a little odd that the product was only available at one drugstore.
When I contacted a major cancer hospital about the product they did not seem to endorse the product even though the manufacturer Crown Labs had told me they were working with them. 
I have family back in Australia and will have them research some good sunscreen products. I agree they do have very stringent standards on sunscreen products and safety. |
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Yvonne |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:14 am |
Please see following link which explains about chemical sunscreens, all the toxic ingredients contained in sunscreens and free radical damage and the effects of these sunscreens on the skin.
I think it is always best to use organic sunscreen such as Titanium and Zinc oxide (non microlized)
http://www.skinbiology.com/toxicsunscreens.html |
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sensitive oily/combination, green eyes, brown hair, fair skin |
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Shannon24
New Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1
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Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:52 pm |
| The first one listed includes PABA esters. The rest rely on Titanium Dioxide, which does not offer broad-spectrum protection. They don't seem to be effective. Several have ingredient lists a mile long. Are we necessarily to believe this source? Not trying to start a fight...just asking what their qualifications are. |
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Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:12 am |
Hey Shannon...
Dr Pickart of Skinbilogy? He's been around forever...Phd in biochemestry. I think he knows a little about chemestry and the skin. His advice relies heavily on published research, including his own on copper peptides. I trust him. |
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sabastianc65
New Member
Joined: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 3
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:59 pm |
I love SkinCeuticals Sheer Physical Defense SPF 50.
It's not available in a tube because it is so thin.
I love how thin it is. It has the two physical ingredients: Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide and no chemical sunscreens.
Oh! There is an SPF 30 in a tube, but it omits the "Sheer" from it's name because it is thicker. The Sheer product couldn't be sold in a tube because of how thin it is.
It seems to be very effective.
If you go to Amazon to look up the product, you can read the reviews. Keep in mind, again, that I'm referring to the "Sheer" version; I kept getting mixed up because there are multiple sunscreens by the company and there is one (the Sports one) that does use both physical and chemical sunscreens. There is also the SPF 30 in a tube that isn't Sheer but is 100% physical. The "SkinCeuticals Sheer Physical UV Defense SPF 50" is the product I am referring to. The company doesn't sell this variation in another SPF.
I would provide the URL, but as a new member I cannot.
I wish there were drugstore brands that would use both physical sunscreens. Maybe cost of the sunscreens is a factor? Packaging is definitely a factor. I know when I contacted the company that they told me that there was a small ball in the product (I think in order for it to work in the packaging), and also that it couldn't be made in a tubed version since it was so thin (a liquid basically).
It's very hard to package and you have to be careful not to spill it. But I love the transparency of it.
Also, a small amount can go a long way so it can last a long time. |
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