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Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:25 am  |
Okay Sharky, I've seen you post about the peels you make with glycolic/lactic acids off and on for some time now, but I'm dying to get the details of your routine!  Can you please share the following:
1. How do you make your own peels (what strengths, where you buy ingredients, how you test ph levels, etc.)?
2. How often are you using them and are you using them all over, or spot treating wrinkles/pigmentation?
3. As far as a "healing" product afterwards goes, what do you recommend the most (O2, copper or something else?
4. How do you incorporate retinol or tazorac into your routine? And just what is your complete routine in general?
I've seen so many posts on how you were able to eliminate your wrinkles, even deeper ones, but it's hard to piece everything together, so I thought I'd just start a new thread. I was going to PM you, but then realized others might like to know as well.
By the way, my main concern is with the wrinkles around my mouth (upper/lower lip areas and nasolabial lines) I also have that horrible slack look in my cheek area so that the little pores start running together creating tiny lines. The products I'm currently using help quite a bit, but they are very temporary so I'm looking to correct this long-term if possible. I'm hoping you can save me from an expensive laser/plasma procedure! TIA!!!  |
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Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:35 am |
| tamgirl, I have the same problem with my pores. Those pesky little line, would love to get rid of them!!! |
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Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:58 am |
I got the glycolic acid, lactic acid and green tea extract for the Personal Formulator. I also have citric acid. I usually use about 30-35% glycolic and about 10% lactic and a pinch of citric powder. I calculated the %s a while ago by weight but I'm not careful any more I just dilute with water. I add TEA and ethanol to pH adjust (Also from the Personal Formulator look under pH adjustment) using pH paper I adjust to about 2.5. I use this to spot peel areas and keep it on for 3-10 minutes depending on the area and how it feels (I do not leave anything on that stings strongly. I used to spot deep lines with the full strength (70%) but I'm not sure that is a good idea. It sometimes got very red.
I always treat with PSF O2 serum after neutralization and PH adjustment (I first rinse with ethanol and then diluted ACV toner (can sting)). After about 20 minutes after the O2 serum I put on either CP serum from Skin Biology or now DNA repair serum.
For daily use I use DDF 12.5% glycolic body lotion which I sometimes add things to. I love this
product although it doesn't get much play here. It has glycolic and lactic acids and green tea.
I do not put acid on tender areas of skin (areas that are irritated in any way) and tend not to use the high strength more than every other week.
You should not start with the higher strength acids. 10-15% is a good starting point. Also pH should be around 3 to start. Feel free to pm if you have specific questions. I've used a number of glycolic products before I made my own (probably have forgotten most). |
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Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:11 pm |
Thanks Sharky! So you're saying you use the DDF glycolic body lotion on your face? And are you still using a retinol-type product? I could have sworn you mentioned something about it and I was wondering how often you use that as well.
Oh and one more thing. I went to the personal formulator and noticed that the lactic acid appears to be a 1% concentration. So how do you get the concentrations higher, or am I just missing something? I think the glycolic one was pretty low as well. Sorry for all of the questions!!! |
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Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:31 pm |
| Nevermind on the % question. I just realized that PF sells 70% glycolic and 88% lactic. I misread it. |
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Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:32 pm |
I ordered a while ago the glycolic is 70% the lactic acid from PF is 88% in water.
I do use Tazorac at my hairline every day for adult acne. I also use it on fine lines but only on days when I do not use a glycolic peel. I do use it with low dose glycolic. I also use these less often in the summer because I am at the beach most days. |
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Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:49 pm |
| Oh, I am butting in here but this is just what I was looking for. I am trying to eliminate the vertical lip lines and a few other minor ones, and also just even up my skin tone. Sharky - what is your current every day routine? Was it the peels that got rid of your wrinkles, and also how long do you think it took? Thanks so much. I am so glad Tamgirl99 asked this question! |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:06 am |
I had many deep lines three years ago and some puffing sagging around my mouth. After diet made a major effect on the wrinkles about 1.5 years ago I started with the glycolics. In the summer I use a low dose 12.5% glycolic lotion on most of my face when I get home. At bed time I wash my face and then use PSF O2 serum and other serums/creams (currently using Remergent DNA repair and Decleor Iris Arommesse for aroma) and spot treat with Tazorac. At less frequent intervals I use the strong peel (every other week). Sometimes I do more often on the bit of my one remaining line. I do not get near the eye area.
It has been 1.5 years and most of the problems are gone. I still have about 1/2" of a line on the left side of my mouth but it is also getting better (I can see it is breaking up).
You have to start slow and adjust for your own skin. If you look good most of the time you're doing fine. If you overpeel you'll have redness that lasts more than a day. Once in a while that is fine but if you keep that up
you'll cause more harm than good.
It's trial and error because each person's skin reacts differently. |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:30 am |
| Great question line!! If I may but in and ask as well- Do you have daily peeling or is it just with the deeper/stronger peel? Does the Tazorac make you peel? I have such sensitive skin so I am a scaredy cat, but I would like to add something (maybe weekly) to help with the lines. |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:59 am |
| Thanks for replying Sharky. I am going to give your peels a try! |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:50 am |
Well, to give myself a start on the AHA bandwagon, I went out and bought AlphaHydrox 12.5% souffle. I looked it up on MUA and was stunned that almost every one LOVED this, even after trying numerous expensive treatments. Unfortunately it doesn't have lactic acid in it like the DDF body lotion, so I might try that next, but if I have half the results of those on MUA I will be thrilled. And I love that it was only $15 and available at Walgreens. I think it will last for quite some time now.
Next on my list to buy would be the peel ingredients and an O2 serum. To save money, I'll probably start with the Zenbiotics one that manslayerliz reviewed and compared to PSF. I've spent so much over the last few months it's unbelievable. Luckily I'm getting a new roommie so that will be an extra $500/month that I have to spend...woohoo!
Since I'm doing the glycolic cream, I'm wondering if I'd be okay to just start with a lactic acid peel instead of a combo. Sharky - what do you think? Do I need both in the peel? I did some research on AHA's and found that studies have shown that long-term use of a lower % actually show just as good results (if not better) as the higher strength peels, so that's why I'm wondering. I do want to add lactic acid peels though since I've read that they are better at boosting collagen.
And everyone is welcome to chime in here, that's why I decided to post a new thread instead of PMing Sharky. I knew Sharky could help a lot of us! |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:55 am |
I do not peel or get red with low strength (12%) glycolic or with Tazorac. I did initially get redness using Retin-A. Maybe my skin has adjusted? If you have very sensitive skin I would start with the DDF product under your chin and if that is too strong increase the pH. (It is both pH and % acid that are important). Redness and occasional peeling are not a problem but if you really burn your skin it can cause a scar. That is why high strength products are supposed to be sold to salons only. Test under your chin if you feel a strong burning it is too strong(the skin there is sensitive enough to get a reaction but it is an area that doesn't show much). If you up the strength retest.
Also it is a good idea when you first start using the acids to neutralize even when using low strengths and not to get anywhere near your eyes. If you put it on your forehead use something to protect drips from getting in your eyes. I put very little there.
Good luck. The trick is not to get carried away and try to go too fast. Remember it took about a year and a half to get where I am now. Also do not use microabrasion products such as Epidermix right before or after a peel. A day or so after you can use it in spots but only if the redness is gone. |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:03 am |
| Quote: |
| I do want to add lactic acid peels though since I've read that they are better at boosting collagen |
Hi Tamgirl.
Just wondered, do you know why it is that one AHA would stimulate more collagen than another. ?
It did feel like that for me when I was using 10% Lactic peels regularly in the winter.
Molly |
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Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:06 am |
| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I do want to add lactic acid peels though since I've read that they are better at boosting collagen |
Hi Tamgirl.
Just wondered, do you know why it is that one AHA would stimulate more collagen than another. ?
It did feel like that for me when I was using 10% Lactic peels regularly in the winter.
Molly |
Hi Molly. I don't know why it would but that was what I read in several articles. They both should improve skin texture though. They also said that lactic acid had more hydrating properties to it and so it was better for those with sensitive skin. I just did some searching on both AHA's and that was what I found. If anyone else knows why, please jump in!  |
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Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:52 am |
Sharky - I've received my CP samples and although I'm not going to start trying them until after my cruise (in 2 weeks, don't want to be going through any uglies then!), I wanted to go ahead and clarify something. Since you use your stronger glycolic peels just on problem areas, are you using the CP's only on these areas as well, or all over?
I ask because in the past I had problems with CP's making me look worse and giving me milia. I plan to give these new ones a go all over, but if after a month I'm just getting worse/getting milia again, I will plan to only use it on these problem areas. I just thought I'd clarify to make sure I understood how you were using them as well. Also, which CP's do you use? TIA! |
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Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:23 pm |
When I started I used CPs all over. Now I only use them a day after a strong peel (on where ever was peeled) and on any raised imperfection (raised pore, raised scar or mole). I do see the remodeling effect on these areas and it seemed to aid in getting rid of my deeper lines (I think the glycolics and healing after treatments did most of this).
Beyond that I didn't see much effect on other areas with the CPs so I stopped using them all over. I do use PSF O2 serum after cleaning and toning. Then Remergent DNA repair and several moisturizers such as PSF perfecting lotion to which I've added Matrixyl. I've also made a cream from ECF, KGF, peptides and other actives from Skin actives mixed into my favorite base creams (PSF and Devita).
The O2 serum is very healing when used immediately after peels. I am also starting to use low dose glycolics (slightly diluted DDF 12.5% body lotion on most of my face most days.
It is a lot of stuff. I also use squalene and Emu oil for moisturizing! But I have had nice results.
P.S. Don't forget your hands when using glycolics. I've been using the DDF lotion (followed by a heavy moisturizer) on my hands for almost a year and they look significantly improved. |
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Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:33 am |
I used to do weekly glycolic acid peels and was quite happy with the results. I only stopped because when I switched to IS Clinical, I found that the products I was using daily addressed the problems I was concerned with, and the peels weren't necessary anymore.
I never went with the DYI option. I would purchase peel kits from Platinum Skincare. Great stuff, very reasonable prices, and EXTREMELY detailed instructions, which I really appreciated. When I was doing the peels, I followed the peel with CP serum. I tried using CPs as part of my daily skincare regimen for a long time. I know others have gotten fantastic results. For me, despite the fact that I was very diligent, they were ineffective. However, they most definitely are useful to use the day following a strong peel... |
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Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:03 pm |
| Thanks Katee and Sharky! I will just start using them on problem areas if all over doesn't go well like last time. I've seen it mentioned a few times that CP's can remove moles. Any recommendation on how to remove/improve them or just use it the same way I would on my wrinkles? Thanks again! |
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Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:17 pm |
| to remove moles you need to use the strongest stuff with salicylic and multiple applications throughout the day. It depends on the kind of mole though. I had some drop off doing this - applying (exfol/tri-reduction) 3 times a day or more in less than 2 weeks, but they weren't serious moley things just the bobbly, polypy things. I had them on my neck. My face moles haven't grown like in my sisters though - I put this down to regular CP use. |
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Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:01 pm |
| Sharky - or anyone who knows (!), I have been doing weekly 40% lactic acid peels for the past 2 weeks. I started with 5 minutes the 1st time, 7 minutes the 2nd time. After each of these, I put on Actifim renovation serum. Then, after reading around, I read that you should not put anything on your face after the peel (for that night and several days afterwards) as it will diminish the results of the peel. So, I am curious what your thoughts are on this? Right now I am using the Remergent Clarifying Concentrate in the morning with s/s and at night I have just been using Avage. Would this stuff be ok to continue after the peel? And, 1 more thing, I was curious if I could use a high % glycolic acid cream/lotion daily on top of doing the weekly LA peels if I woudl get "faster" results? Thanks so anyone who answers! |
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Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:30 am |
| I only put O2 serum on immediately but the next day I use the CPs on those spots. I don't think healing things would be bad. |
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Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:04 am |
| Thank you sharky. Sorry to keep bothering you! |
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:41 am |
| Sharky - I just noticed in another thread that you had inquired about the 12.5% TCA peel. Did you ever try it and how would you compare it to your glycolic/lactic acid peels? I'm considering this one now but wanted to hear your experiences first. Thanks again! |
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