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Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:26 am  |
I'm slowly driving myself mad doing research upon research on skincare. 
I'm really hoping that someone will be able to help me.
I am currently using:
PM
Exfol (Diane Yvonne)
Avene retinol gel around my eyes and lips (the 2 areas I have some lines).
HA and Clear Emu.
AM
Vitamin C serum (12% PSF)
SS (Bioderma for face and Clarins around my eyes).
I am not irritated at all by the retinol - it isn't working as well as I would hope it would be. My eyes have not gone more crinkly which is good.
I may be being impatient though as I've only been using it for a few weeks.
I was wondering about Lactic Acid. Someone on Skincare board recommended using this around the lip area for those annoying lip lines.
Is Lactic Acid the same as Exfol - i.e. can I use it under my eyes?
I've also been reading about PSF Phytolift Eye gel - people seeem to really like this as a substitute for retinol. Would I use Emu and HA wit this and is it as good as retinol?
I've also been loking at DMAE - is this a good strength builder in the skin?
Where would I incorportae this into my routie?
Thank you so much if you have waded through my long post.
I'd really appreciate some suggestions and I'm getting very lost. |
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Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:32 am |
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I am not irritated at all by the retinol - it isn't working as well as I would hope it would be. My eyes have not gone more crinkly which is good.
I may be being impatient though as I've only been using it for a few weeks. |
Give it a bit longer, say 2/3 months and then try something stronger. There's another Avene with twice as much Retinaldehyde or try Green Cream or even Retin A.
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| Is Lactic Acid the same as Exfol - i.e. can I use it under my eyes? |
It's not the same it's an AHA and Salicylic is a BHA. The DY lactic is a leave it on a few minutes wash it off peel and AHAs are deeper peels than salicylic. It's still fairly mild for an AHA but I wouldn't use it on eyes although some experienced users do.
| Quote: |
| I've also been reading about PSF Phytolift Eye gel - people seeem to really like this as a substitute for retinol. Would I use Emu and HA wit this and is it as good as retinol? |
I think the raves are for it's temporary lifting effect, especially on the upper lids rather than for it's long-term actives; can't remember if it's Matrixyl if so, it's not nearly as proven as Retinol but that doesn't mean it won't work. You can use it with HA and emu if you like.
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I've also been loking at DMAE - is this a good strength builder in the skin?
Where would I incorportae this into my routie |
It's really more like a temporary fix. Once you stop using it the effects will go away very quickly. It's for firming sagging skin temporarily though I did read in the Perricone book that it also has some anti-oxidant properties too. I don't know where it goes in terms of layering.
HTH Molly |
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Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:39 am |
| Which is better or can you use them both? I'm sooooo confused! |
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Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:11 pm |
Thank you Molly - I was really hoping you would answer me.
I appreciate it.
Emma x
P.S. I am too scared to use CP's - is there something else that you think I could add that would help my skin?
Is the lactivc acid the same as the acid that's causing brown spots in some people?
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Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:19 pm |
Hi Emma
I did notice you'd chickened out on the CPs. 
I think we decided it might be a mix of strong retinoids, acids and inadequate sun protection revealing (or maybe causing) the hyperpigmentation, but who knows - could just be our age.
Lactic acid alledgedly is less likely to cause this which is why it's sold over glycolic on DY because the molecules are smaller and penetrate less deeply.
You could certainly add a gentle AHA at your age (mid thirties is it?). In my opinion a leave on one feels gentler and more moisturising: you could try the Mandelic at 10% from skincarecentral (though I haven't myself) or the Lacsal from Skinbio or Cellularskinrx have one, though I'm not sure of the percentages. Anything with glycolic or lactic up to 10% should be fine for starters.
Or if you want to do it in a 'peel' way - the DY lactic at 10% is effective but a bit clinical and boring or the PSF pumpkin is more aesthetically pleasing.
As for other things to add - there are SO many, but I'm asking Father Christmas for Remergent's DNA repair and Ice Elements anti-aging serum.
BTW I'm not saying the PSF phsyto wouldn't be worth a try - there is some science behind it's just less proven. I was lured too by the raves over on SCB. My initial reaction was damn, it doesn't do a thing and I threw it in the wardrobe, but having read Marina's comments yesterday I'm giving it another try and my eye area certainly looks good today, but I think I have a fever which always plumps up my eye area. I'd get a sample first if you can.
HTH Molly  |
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Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:44 am |
Hi Molly,
I do hope that you are feeling better.
Now you've gone and done it.
I have been looking at Remergent's DNA Repair and think it sounds very good.
A few more questions please: :
I am liking the idea of lactic acid around my lips.
I will still use the Exfol around my eyes as my skin can be sensitive and react badly to strong products.
If I am using the Lactic acid around my lips will I still use the retino afterwards?
I have sold some things on ebay so am feeling a bit richer again (I suddenly became very poor after joining EDS forums ).
I am looking at the Remergent DNA Repair - do you think that this would this be good as a nightly undereye treatment (and on other problem areas such as a few brown pigments by my eyebrows).
Would I use the Remergent onto cleansed skin and then retinol or would that be too much?
Just a question about retinols please - I had read that they are supposed to be the only fully proven method to remove or reduce fine lines or wrinkles.
Do they work by pushing new skin to the surface - which is why we have to be extra careful with SS as the new skin is more prone to sun damage?
I won't get DMAE as I do not have sagging anywhere yet (I'm only 37 and was fortunate to have lived in the UK for the first 25 years of my life - we didn't see the sun much.
I just want to reduce those pesky lines around my eyes and upper lip.
Thank you again for putting up with my ramblings.
I am getting near to the end of my samples from DY and need to decide what will be the best for my skin without completely breaking the bank.
Emma x |
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Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:38 am |
Hi Emma
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| If I am using the Lactic acid around my lips will I still use the retino afterwards? |
Don't use them on the same night because both exfoliate your skin in different ways and together it's too much. After using the lactic peel you should only use something neutral on the skin for the night, like emu or or HA.
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| Would I use the Remergent onto cleansed skin and then retinol or would that be too much? |
According to SCB you should use retinol on clean skin and then wait 30 mins for it to absorb and convert to Retin A. After that you could apply the DNA repair (though that might like clean skin, ie. first layer too - I'm not too familiar)
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| Just a question about retinols please - I had read that they are supposed to be the only fully proven method to remove or reduce fine lines or wrinkles. |
They are the active with the greatest scientific research behind them, but other things have research too including AHAs, CPs etc. etc. take a look at this research abstracts page
http://www.smartskincare.com/resabstracts/
Besides some things just don't have the research because no-one's paid for it - doesn't mean it doesn't work necessarily.
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| Do they work by pushing new skin to the surface - which is why we have to be extra careful with SS as the new skin is more prone to sun damage? |
Basically right. It increases cell turnover rate so the cells at the base come up more quickly. At the same time it thins the corneal layer (the uppermost layer of skin - dead cells) which gets thicker as we age. It is also irritating which attacks the natural acid mantle/skin barrier so in both these ways the sun can be more irritating and you need SS, though on the SCB they say you can compensate for this with SPF 8 - seems a bit general to me though and a bit low.
I see you've decided a few new things already - nice  Molly |
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Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:47 pm |
Hi Molly,
Thank you so much for your reply.
I do hope that you are feeling better.
Have you had any luck finding a SS that you love?
How do you find the CP's.
Is there a good substitute for that - I am anxious about using them as I like my skin and I am often complimented on having and "English rose complexion" so I don't want to stuff it up.
I just want to improve it in the areas where I am noticing problems - lips and eyes.
When you say doing it the peel way how is that different from another exfoliation way?
What is the stronger Avene retinol? I'm going to keep using the gel one as it is not irritating me at all but I might need to move up in a couple of months like you suggested.
I am going to try to get a sample of the DNA first as I neeed to check it isn't going to make my skin react.
Can you suggest any product which I could use after exfol, retinol, and before emu and HA? Sort of a CP substitute. If you think I don't need it then please say.
Silly question - do I need to use the Exfol and the lactic together - I do not get spots so I don't know if I need a BHA - I was thinking of keeping that for under my eye area? |
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