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Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:32 pm  |
Help everyone! I'm in the process of switching over to all natural hair care products (or as close as I can get to all natural). I get my hair cut and highlighted every six months. My hair is fine but I have a ton of it and it's naturally slightly wavy (so it tends to frizz on me). I have it long (when wet to middle of back) and I do not use any heat products on it.
When I switched over to all natural shampoos, my hair got a lot dryer than it already was (oh, I live in Denver and it's naturally pretty dry here). My hair is quite frizzy now because it's so dry. I went out and bought the Paves serum and I really like it but it's only helping a little.
My question is: how bad are the various -cones that companies put in their shampoos and conditioners? I managed to get a sample of two conditioners that my hair just loves but they have a lot of -cones in them (eg. dimethicone). Those two conditioners are made by L'Occutane. If it came down to conditioners with parabens and the various glycols in them, I'd rather choose one with -cones in them.
Can anybody out there enlighten me about this? Will it ruin my hair in the long run to have conditioners with -cones in them? |
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Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:02 pm |
I don't know how bad scientifically -cones are to hair but here is my experience. I've had pretty good hair all my life and never even used conditioner until 1-2 yrs ago. I dye my hair every 8 months or so but that has never dried my hair out at all until I permed my hair last xmas. My hair dried, tangled, and frizzed like crazy. I tried everything, I have fine hair too so anything too heavy ended up weighing down my curls, for example L'occitane shea butter deep hair treatment. I tried various drugstore brands and the ones I usually used but to no avail, it seemed to just dry my hair out more and more. And I had to use a curling product in my hair every morning too. I started off with something more natural, with very few -cones (but was quite expensive) but I had to switch because I ran out of it and because it was not available in Canada. It kept my hair in check, didn't dry it out, but wasn't enough to make it better either. So from the raves on MUA I switched to another product which I think worked very well for my curls, but it dried my hair out even MORE. After a couple hair trimmings my curls were no more but I found my hair still in pretty bad shape from how it was before my perm. A few months ago I switched all my haircare over to John Masters and I have to say my hair is 80-90% back to the way it was before my perm. My split ends are gone and I haven't trimmed my hair since using my new products so it DID fix my split ends. My hair is much more balanced and no weighing down either, I'm very happy. I also dyed my hair the same time I started the new products and the DYEing did NOT have an ill effect on my hair, actually I think it made it more shiny... 
So in conclusion I'd have to say -cones won't do much harm if you have pretty healthy normal hair but if you have chemically processed hair it would definitely dry it out more and more. It's not an immediate effect but in my 6 months I noticed my hair get dryer and dryer gradually. I'm much happier now with my organic products than I have ever been with drugstore brands  |
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Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:56 am |
ellyp,
I have naturally curly/wavy hair. I stopped shampooing altogether because the detergents in the shampoos were drying out my hair and was stripping the color. All I use is conditioner to co-wash and condition the hair. I stopped using products that had cones in it, or at least use ones that are water solubable. I try to not straighten as much and let it air dry rather than diffusing if I can.
Over the course of 2 months or so, my hair is a lot softer because I can tell by the texture and feel of the hair and seems a lot healthier too.
Also it depends on whether your hair likes protein or not. I've heard that some don't react very well to protein and can cause drier hair. I use a protein once a month or so, I think my color treated hair needs it since I get highlights every 3 months or so. I deep condition about once a week which helps a lot too. I've also taken the natural route and do honey, ACV, baking soda and coconut milk rinses. I've also made my own hair gel that's all natural which works pretty well. |
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26, combination skin with oily t-zone |
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Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:22 am |
ellpy,
Im not savvy on -cones but, I do try to use a very gentle shampoo on my hair. The one that I have had the most sucess with is Cream of Nature. The ingred. list looks pretty good to me(SLS free at least) I recommend you check it out. Truly the best detangling conditioning shampoo that I have ever used. The smell leaves something to be desired but its such a great product I could care less!
Water Aqua , Trideceth-7 Carboxylic Acid , Decyl Polyglycoside , Glycol Stearate , Polyquaternium-10 , Aloe Barbadensis Extract Aloe Barbadensis , Hydrolyzed Milk Protein , Honey Mel , Lemon Extract Citrus Limonum , Wheat Germ Oil Triticum Vulgare , Balsam Canada Abies Balsamea , Pectin , Lecithin , Fennel Extract Foeniculum Vulgare , Buchu Extract Baroma Betulina , Myrrh Extract Commiphora Myrrha , Marjoram Extract Origanum Majorana , Orris Extract Iris Florentina , Sodium Hydroxide , Fragrance Parfum , Disodium EDTA , Methylparaben , Propylparaben , Quaternium-15 , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone , Red 4 CI 14700 , Yellow 5 CI 19140 , Red 33 CI 17200 , Blue 1 CI 42090
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Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:23 pm |
My kids are napping so I was able to do some research. As I suspected, our wonderful carekate has already written about this topic. This is what I was able to find. It was under a review for Pantene Pro-V:
Chrissie wrote:
but isnt this the same concept of silicone products...coat the hair so its not so fly-away???
Yes, but there are different types of silicones:
"Silicones are viscous oily liquids that coat the hair shaft in gloss, giving the illusion of healthy sheen. As most curly hair tends to be dry and often frizzy, silicones seem like the miracle ingredient to combat these complaints. The downside is that MOST silicones are not water soluble, and can only be removed with harsh detergents. The very detergents needed to remove the silicones strip the hair of all its natural oils, leaving it stripped and straw-like. This causes the user to think she needs more silicones to combat the dryness. Thus, the cycle begins again. If the user is not using these harsh detergents to remove the silicones, they can build up, creating a barrier on the hair shaft. This barrier prevents moisturizing conditioners from penetrating the hair, further drying it out."
How do you know whether it's water soluble or not? Here's a cheat sheet:
• Amodimethicone - not soluble in water by itself;
• Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 (and) Cetrimonium Chloride - mixture that is soluble in water in the bottle;
• Behenoxy Dimethicone - sparingly soluble in water
• Cetearyl methicone - not soluble in water
• Cetyl Dimethicone - not soluble in water
• Cyclomethicone - not soluble in water
• Cyclopentasiloxane - not soluble in water
• Dimethicone - not soluble in water
• Dimethicone Copolyol - water soluble
• Dimethiconol - not soluble in water
• Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane - water soluble
• Stearoxy Dimethicone - sparingly soluble in water
• Stearyl Dimethicone - not soluble in water
• Trimethylsilylamodimethicone - not soluble in water
• Lauryl methicone copolyol - water soluble
My feeling is that using a shampoo or conditioner containing water-soluable silicones is not harmful to my hair so I don't worry too much about it. I *do* try to avoid products containing copius amounts of the other silicones, but so long is it isn't listed in the first 3-5 ingredients on the list, then I believe it's safe to use.
BTW, you do not need a shampoo containing harsh sulfates or chemicals to strip build-up from your hair. All you need to do is add a bit of baking soda or ACV to your shampoo (I do NOT recommend adding baking soda directly to your shampoo bottle because it causes the shampoo to fizz and expand -- think of those old volcanic eruptions made from mixing baking soda and vinegar at the 5th grade Science Fair projects!) and it will cut right through any buildup on the hair, leaving you with super-clean, super-shiny hair.
HTH,
Carrie
The products that I have samples for from L'Occitane have Cyclomethicone and Dimethicone as the 2nd and 3rd ingredients!!!  No wonder it makes my hair feel so silky and calm. If I continue to use them, it won't be helping me any so I guess the search is on.
Thanks Vonstella for your recommendation! I appreciate it (and I think you are really cool for including a picture! How do you do that????) Where do you buy it? |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:08 am |
| ellyp wrote: |
| Can anybody out there enlighten me about this? Will it ruin my hair in the long run to have conditioners with -cones in them? |
It depends upon the type of silicones -- follow this link to my friend Jordana's notepad on MakeupAlley where she posted a chart depicting the different types silicones and what purpose they service in the hair products and if they are "good" or "bad:" http://makeupalley.com/user/notepad/sweetpeacali/#Anchor-Amodimethicone-35882
My personal feeling is that water-soluble silicones aren't harmful (or are less harmful) to the hair because we can wash them out easily with every shampoo....
ETA: Well geez, I guess it would help if I read the whole thread before I jumped in with a reply! As you might have guessed, the link I posted above is simply to the "Silicone Primer" that Elly cut-and-quoted from me above!  You still might want to check out that link, though, because Jordana has posted a lot of good info regarding curly hair on her MUA notepad that might be helpful in taming all of your curls.... |
_________________
Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:41 am |
Wow, Carrie! That was a great link! In addition to not watching which silicones I put in my hair (they are everywhere to me it seems, by golly!), your friend has a lot of good advice about proteins in hair care products. I think that is part of my problem because awhile back someone recommended that I use proteins. She said that if I put too much moisture in my hair, it will be bad for it and recommended a balance between moisturizers and protein products. Problem is, everytime I use an intense protein product, my hair doesn't feel any better! Now I know why. My hair is not very curly, just wavy, but it must not be crazy about those proteins.
I think I will continue the search plus include some ACV and honey in my current conditioner.
Ariesxtreme -- how do you use coconut milk and baking soda on your hair?
Sormuimui -- I tried the JM hair reconstructor last night (I left it in all night) because I managed to sweet talk the sales lady at Whole Foods into giving me a sample. It didn't do much for me (my guess is that it contains proteins). Have you tried the deep conditioner treatment? How is the detangler? It seems like a nice line but I don't want to splurge unless it's awesome because money is tight and I used it all on skincare products recently.  I wish I could solve some of these problems and find some HG products....
Thanks everyone!! You all are so great for helping me with this!! |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:36 pm |
| My hair was pretty fried, I didn't see much of a difference immediately, I think it's more of a continued use. I use the Evening Primrose shampoo everyday with the Citrus and Neroli Detangler. I use it as a leave-in because I'm really lazy. It feels great, doesn't weigh down my thin hair, not greasy. I'm not sure if the Reconstructor does anything because I use it as a treatment, 1-2 times/week and I only leave it on for a few minutes. But I love how it smells and how soft my hair feels after I've washed it out (considering there's no cones in it, my hair is incredibly soft). So I assume it must be doing something. I've never tried the Lavendar and Avocado one but for everyday I'd rather go with something lighter. The Citrus and Neroli I really like, it's my HG right now and I think it's what really fixed my hair since I rarely wash it out so it just absorbs. I also want to try Elucence as that sounds great too but I don't have easy access to it so for now it's JM! |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:47 pm |
| sormuimui wrote: |
| ...so for now it's JM! |
Stupid question: what does "JM" stand for? When I refer to "JM" I'm talking about "Jan Marini" but I wasn't aware she made haircare products so I want to make sure I'm on the same page with the rest of you.... |
_________________
Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:57 pm |
Hi ellyp,
I'm trying to figure out the whole protein thing for my hair also, not sure if my hair likes it or not.(I'm also a wavy )
With the coconut milk I just take it right out of the can put it in my hair and leave it in for a little and then rinse out, I try not to rinse all of it out, just leave a tad in for conditioning.
Baking soda I use only if I feel there's some build up. I don't use shampoo so I may get some buildup from products. I try to use a lot of things that don't have cones and so forth, but sometimes I just can't avoid it. I take about a tablespoon dissolve it with a cup or warm water, put that into my wet hair that I've already co-washed, let that sit and then rinse and then condition. |
_________________
26, combination skin with oily t-zone |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:45 pm |
| carekate wrote: |
| sormuimui wrote: |
| ...so for now it's JM! |
Stupid question: what does "JM" stand for? When I refer to "JM" I'm talking about "Jan Marini" but I wasn't aware she made haircare products so I want to make sure I'm on the same page with the rest of you.... |
Sorry, Carrie! I was lazy earlier and referred to John Masters as JM. For all you skincare experts out there, I'm sure that can be a bit confusing! |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:51 pm |
Thanks, sormuimui and ariesxtreme for your recommendations! I think I will use all of them. While I save up to afford the John Masters detangler (sounds like just what I need because I don't have much time in the morn to fiddle with stuff and I need something to help me get the tangles out of my long hair), I will use ariesxtreme's coconut milk and baking soda tricks. I've been using Giovanni's Tea Tree shampoo to get rid of buildup but my hair feels like straw afterwards. I bet the baking soda will be less harsh. I will give it a try.
Thanks SO much for the help! I do so little to my hair (I barely brush it, I don't dry it and I only cut/color it every 6 months!) it seems so crazy that I have to work so hard to find the right products so that it's healthy and soft. |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:02 pm |
Not a prob ellyp.
I have such course hair and funny thing is, the baking soda rinse actually makes it softer. Have no idea how it does, I don't question it I just do it . I hope those tips'll help ya! |
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26, combination skin with oily t-zone |
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Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:54 pm |
| If you want to get rid of buildup John Master's Clarifier works really well. Your hair will feel like straw after but you're supposed to use it between your shampoo and your conditioner, so after you condition it's not a problem anymore. The JM is expensive but I also found a great alternative (if you don't wanna DIY) is that Earth to Body as a Hair Rinse which has very simliar ingredients and it's only 8CAD for 240mL or something. As a leave in you could also try a bit of avocado oil on your ends or wherever you feel it's too dry. |
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Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:42 am |
| ellyp wrote: |
| carekate wrote: |
| sormuimui wrote: |
| ...so for now it's JM! |
Stupid question: what does "JM" stand for? When I refer to "JM" I'm talking about "Jan Marini" but I wasn't aware she made haircare products so I want to make sure I'm on the same page with the rest of you.... |
Sorry, Carrie! I was lazy earlier and referred to John Masters as JM. For all you skincare experts out there, I'm sure that can be a bit confusing! |
You know, I don't recall ever hearing of this brand before....
*Cue CareKate, the hair product whore, to go out and learn more* |
_________________
Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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