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Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:06 pm  |
Like other sisters here, I'm using this serum and found it as a very good remedy for my easy reddish skin. However, I heard that continuous provision of oxygen to the skin is not good as it will make the blood vessels around the applying area diminished, thus less nutrition supply. Is it true?  |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:01 am |
eeek, i hope not! that serum's been on my top secret self-indulgency wishlist  I'm definitely interested in seeing the replies to this thread  |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:30 am |
| Tigercat.. Where did youe get this information? Would you post the link or your source, please? |
_________________
Colorful Colorado! Highlands Ranch, a burb south of Denver... |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:09 am |
all right, I found the link finally:
http://www.skinbiology.com/expensiveskincreams.html
See under the heading "Avoid Skin Oxygenating Products".
I know there are many materials found in the web seem no evidence and not reliable at all, but this piece does scare me.  Or this info no longer updated? |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:44 am |
| Tigercat, I think you can e-mail PSF directly with the question and this link. It's very interesting to see what their response would be. |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:31 pm |
The folks running that site are selling products of their own (and won't shut up about copper peptides - so I'm guessing they're selling a copper peptide cream? LOL), so that has to be taken into account. Looks like they've borrowed some decent research, but it's a mish-mash. Some of the info's really good, but some of it's obviously colored by opinion & a desire to sell a product.
My .02 (I'm not an expert on the latest research on skincare, but I *am* a near-expert on scammers  )
PS - I'm not calling these folks scammers, I'm just saying you can't believe everything someone says about the competition when they're trying to sell you something. |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:02 pm |
For the record, Dr. Pickart has stated other um, controversial opinions  such as that mandelic acid causes nerve damage. He also said hyaluronic acid was harmful, and DMAE. So take this latest with a giant grain of salt.  |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:20 pm |
| PocoLoco wrote: |
| For the record, Dr. Pickart has stated other um, controversial opinions such as that mandelic acid causes nerve damage. He also said hyaluronic acid was harmful, and DMAE. So take this latest with a giant grain of salt. |
IOW, PocoLoco - he's a quack? 
What a shock - an internet site selling quackery? Quelle surprise!  |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:21 pm |
| I'm going to second the general consensus here, The skinbio Dr. basically thinks that everything except for emu and squaline oils, and copper peptides are bad for the skin I'll keep my HA and PSF o2 serum, thank you. |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:17 pm |
| dealated wrote: |
| I'm going to second the general consensus here, The skinbio Dr. basically thinks that everything except for emu and squaline oils, and copper peptides are bad for the skin I'll keep my HA and PSF o2 serum, thank you. |
Agreed. I am a huge fan of his research regarding natural collagen rebuilding with copper peptides but you have to take much of his (and Skin Bio's more verbal board members) with a grain of salt. They are not very open to other solutions as dealated noted; specifically, HA - that gets roasted regularly and I've heard the same squawking about the O2 serum but I'm convinced of it's virtue (both PSF and Zenbiotics). Ah, yes, and finally the Mandelic issue...another of my holy grails so I could care less what he thinks!
So, while I don't think he's a quack, certainly not, his work is significantly beneficial, he does seem quite close-minded. |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:45 pm |
| I have always been skeptical of Dr. Pickart and I agree with scalawaggirl that he does seem very close minded. I don't see how he can be entirely right on some things like copper peptides but wrong about so many other things. IMO a fatal flaw such as being close minded would not only not allow him to see the truth about something such as HA but would also affect his judgement about copper peptides. So IMO I wouldn't trust his opinion on anything without looking into it further! |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:52 pm |
I absolutely agree about the Pickart comments. I didn't try Vit C for a long time because he said it was useless except taken orally.
On the other hand; he's not a great business man and maybe he's not such a great scientist, but a lot of inventors have flaws that's what makes them think differently (I'm an inventor actually, amongst other crackpot occupations so I should know). Agreed, be selective about what Skinbio says.
On the other hand with the O2 serum specifically, Deb of the SCB has been asked about this regularly and is still adamant that it causes oxidisation and we'd have to wait to see the damage. That's what put me off trying it, though lately so many people swear by it that I'm going to have to read the arguments again more carefully. |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:50 pm |
| Molly wrote: |
I absolutely agree about the Pickart comments. I didn't try Vit C for a long time because he said it was useless except taken orally.
On the other hand; he's not a great business man and maybe he's not such a great scientist, but a lot of inventors have flaws that's what makes them think differently (I'm an inventor actually, amongst other crackpot occupations so I should know). Agreed, be selective about what Skinbio says.
On the other hand with the O2 serum specifically, Deb of the SCB has been asked about this regularly and is still adamant that it causes oxidisation and we'd have to wait to see the damage. That's what put me off trying it, though lately so many people swear by it that I'm going to have to read the arguments again more carefully. |
Yikes... Good to know, thanks Molly. |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:20 pm |
| Molly wrote: |
I absolutely agree about the Pickart comments. I didn't try Vit C for a long time because he said it was useless except taken orally.
On the other hand; he's not a great business man and maybe he's not such a great scientist, but a lot of inventors have flaws that's what makes them think differently (I'm an inventor actually, amongst other crackpot occupations so I should know). Agreed, be selective about what Skinbio says.
On the other hand with the O2 serum specifically, Deb of the SCB has been asked about this regularly and is still adamant that it causes oxidisation and we'd have to wait to see the damage. That's what put me off trying it, though lately so many people swear by it that I'm going to have to read the arguments again more carefully. |
I'm with you re: his being flawed albeit a great inventor as I really believe in the power of CPs along with strong exfoliation since I am living proof. Of course, I use a whole range in my regime so am sure that the combination of supplements and products (especially Dr. Pickart's CPs) are the key to my so-far success.
I know the opinion you mention of Deb on SCB and it also caused me to not try the O2 for just that reason. However, I am another one who did ultimately and my skin has never looked or felt better. It has helped with healing after a strong peel and also balances my skin significantly in my fight against oil. So, I am sold and guess I hope that maybe Deb is wrong on this subject though I do respect her knowledge immensely. I alternate the PSF for the big peels, etc. and use the Zenbiotics version for every day as it's only $12. Gotta love that! BTW, the Zenbiotics line is based on delivering the same oxygen nutrient content. I've seen some explanations that differentiate between oxidisation and oxygenation (think that's what it's called) so am able to sleep at night.  |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:28 pm |
| I agree that Deb is not always right. I sometimes find her total science approach too rigid, but she was well aware of the "difference between oxidisation and oxygenation debate ". She was sent over here to read the thread, I seem to remember, and completely dismissed it as junk science. I am feeling it's worth a look though just based on users experiences and in my reckoning something that feels so good and appears to give healing results can't be that bad, can it? |
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Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:47 pm |
That is my approach, Molly. In fact, this is how I pretty much live the rest of my life. I have tried to educate myself as much as possible but ultimately decided to take the "risk".
I have a hard time reckoning myself to the fact that suddenly, I'm going to look like a prune or other unattractive foodstuff from using the O2!
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:16 am |
No worries Scalawag, i like prunes...
Anyway, for long time i was scared by all those discussions pro & contra to use O˛-serum. Few days ago i got a sample of the PSF one and started to use it : well, no doubt, it makes a real difference (healing even a fresh insect bite...). I often think, whether we know the long term (negative) effect of all those things we smear on our face, but then again, this one is really persuasive. So i guess, i'll take the risk of looking like a prune as well... |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:02 am |
Hi Lin
It's a bit OT, but I see you've got some new products on your footer. How are you liking the EpidermxII and Remergent? Both are on my virtual lists.
Molly |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:03 am |
| I've been using this for as long as it's been out 1 1/2+ years. It has really helped my skin especially in my peel and heal routine. I looked at MEDLINE listed articles on oxygenation of skin (quite a few recently) and they're all positive results. Granted no studies for 20 years but do not see reason to be alarmed. |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:05 am |
Skalawag -- which O2 spray from Zen do you feel is the best for controlling oil (it looks like you use both of them)?
I don't work too far from Zenbiotics and was thinking I would drop in and buy one or both of them. I'm a little hesitant...I keep hearing Deb's voice in the back of my mind
Also -- I've been using the Mandelic that Kathleen sells and, so far, LOVE IT! I really like the Vivant but love the fact that the GOW version doesn't have the glycerin, which always seems to leave a film on my skin that I hate.
I'm also trying out the Devita cleanser and enjoying it much more than I thought I would -- I normally do not care for products with aloe vera since they also leave a film. They sell it at my local Whole Foods Market.
Marla |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:51 am |
| marla wrote: |
Skalawag -- which O2 spray from Zen do you feel is the best for controlling oil (it looks like you use both of them)?
I don't work too far from Zenbiotics and was thinking I would drop in and buy one or both of them. I'm a little hesitant...I keep hearing Deb's voice in the back of my mind
Also -- I've been using the Mandelic that Kathleen sells and, so far, LOVE IT! I really like the Vivant but love the fact that the GOW version doesn't have the glycerin, which always seems to leave a film on my skin that I hate.
I'm also trying out the Devita cleanser and enjoying it much more than I thought I would -- I normally do not care for products with aloe vera since they also leave a film. They sell it at my local Whole Foods Market.
Marla |
Great news, Marla! I'm listening to Edith Piaf right now and in a particularly light-hearted mood (though the lyrics are generally not so!). It's great for a Sunday morning skin care research/post stint! Me, EDS and Rice Krispies. Yeah, baby!
I use both the Oxygen Prep (in the foundation pack) and the Oxygen Replenish - this is what I use for balancing my skin and spritz it last in my routine. I love the whole Zenbiotics line and highly recommend it. It's my AM routine mixed w/other stuff, mainly PSF for specific things. I still use the Devita in the PM very happily!
Also, glad to hear you're liking the special GOW Mandelic. I couldn't live without the mandelic; I'm certain I'd keel right over! |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:52 am |
| sharky wrote: |
| I've been using this for as long as it's been out 1 1/2+ years. It has really helped my skin especially in my peel and heal routine. I looked at MEDLINE listed articles on oxygenation of skin (quite a few recently) and they're all positive results. Granted no studies for 20 years but do not see reason to be alarmed. |
Good news and thank you for enabling me. It is most appreciated! |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:08 am |
Scalawaggirl,
I love how enthusiastic you are about everything!  I need some of that! |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:26 am |
| PocoLoco wrote: |
Scalawaggirl,
I love how enthusiastic you are about everything! I need some of that! |
I'll send some over in the post, how's that?
Truthfully, I just decided one day many moons ago to just be happy and swing over to the glass is half full side of thinking - solution-oriented, if you know what I mean. I was a very cynical youth due to loads of familial dysfunction but am now the most happily relegated of the bunch. I accept what I can't change and change what I can. Besides, I get to play mad scientist with my skin and astound all the neighbors I never speak to.
I am now a practicing hedonist and to me that means realistically avoiding any and all negativity or drama! The job, unfortunately, doesn't fall out of the category but gotta have a way to support this skin care habit!  |
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Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:48 am |
Molly, i still haven't used them long enough. Sofar i only can tell that i had no irritation or pimples with them - which is basically good news.
They recommend to use EpidermXII either daily (10-15 sec.) or as a treatment few times a week (for longer massaging, achieving a "clumping" of dead skin, etc).
During the recent few weeks i had good results with fruit acid peels (practically eliminating all black hads on & around my nose, partially erasing moles and scars) but still i feel a need for good old mechanical "scrubbing".
After peels or scrubs i take Remergent's Refoliator. Remergent's DNA repair is the only thing i put on after p.m. cleansing. I was considering the microcirculation therapy as well - but it's still not clear to me, whether it's generally good for the around eye area or only for dark circles (which i don't have). After using up my skinmedica cream i'd like to try the Remergent a.m.moisture then.
I could come back to you in few weeks again, after using them for longer time regukarly. |
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