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Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:15 pm  |
I've been interested in the JM AI lash serum since reading all the glowing reviews both here and on MUA. And the before/after pics have encouraged the lemming. 
But I kept wondering if it really was superior enough to make it worth the investment. (I do like Mavala and Talika, they work for me.) Since JM is a professional line used by spas and salons, I called a friend that works in the skin care biz and asked for her opinion. Well, I was blown away by what she told me! She said that JM is effective, but because it utilizes the same DRUG (travapost) that's included in prescription eyedrops for glaucoma, Travatan Opthalmic Solution. Apparently, people that were using the eyedrops noticed lash growth. And then JM acted to capitalize on it.
I was so astonished that I did a search and discovered a relevant post on another board (to the trade). There's a post on there that says the same thing. 
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:0n2uPoaK5wMJ:groups.msn.com/estheticiantoesthetician/general.msnw%3Faction%3Dget_message%26mview%3D0%26ID_Message%3D31057%26LastModified%3D4675556848834064690+%22grow+lashes%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=14&ie=UTF-8
I don't know what to make of all this. I know that drugs are supposed to be tested and approved as safe by the FDA, but that's only applicable to its intended use. In other words, it may have been found safe to use in diseased eyes that have glaucoma, but what are the effects to healthy eyes??! If JM has labeled this as cosmetic, then no such safety testing has to be done.
I don't know to what lengths the rest of you will go to in beauty's quest, but I'm not ready to compromise my health by using pharmacological drugs that may, down the road, have unknown consequences.
If it's working for you and you like it, great. But I thought some might be interested in doing further research before taking the plunge.
Also, for those that really really really love this stuff and plan to continue using it, you might just want to go get a prescription for Travatan -- it'd be cheaper and I'd imagine you'd get the same results.
Also, I found another discussion about how to grow lashes and one of the posters (third reply, by Leigh), who has glaucoma, said the same thing...her prescription eyedrops created new growth.
http://www.gatago.com/alt/fashion/16535700.html |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:24 pm |
| one of the side effects of that drug is darkening of the irises! |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:46 pm |
oh but if it is travatan, the results are permanent then  |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:55 pm |
This is scary. I clicked on the link you posted and totally agreed with one of the posters:
"The fact that it is safe to use for the treatment of glaucoma will have nothing to do with its use as a lash extender."
I question the long-term safety of using this product...sure Travopost is used to treat glaucoma but who knows how safe the JM serum is when it interacts with the other ingredients in the product. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:57 pm |
| I read that somewhere too. I checked out the Travatan website and they list a side effect as eyelash growth as well as deeper pigmentation of the iris. I think as long as you put the drops only on the lashes and not into the eye, you wouldn't get the darkening of the iris. Too bad I already ordered a bottle of Jan Marini or I would just ask my Dr for a prescription for the Travatan. My eyelashes are soooo pitiful, I'd be willing to try anything. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:00 pm |
i remember a while back people were using travatan and getting amazing results (i did some research on it) which is why i remember the name travatan and i was like OH!!!!.
I wonder if your doctor would prescribe it though? I'm not sure if mine would...maybe my dermatologist? |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:20 pm |
What I don't understand is how they can sell this product without a prescription if it really contains a FDA approved drug? My understanding is that even if you are using a drug ingredient for off-label use that you still need a prescription to obtain it. Am I wrong here?
It sort of makes me wonder if the JM really contains Travatan... |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:32 pm |
| TheresaL wrote: |
What I don't understand is how they can sell this product without a prescription if it really contains a FDA approved drug? My understanding is that even if you are using a drug ingredient for off-label use that you still need a prescription to obtain it. Am I wrong here?
It sort of makes me wonder if the JM really contains Travatan... |
This is what I don't know for sure. I know that the FDA does not require that cosmetic companies back their claims for cosmetics -- we all know that. It's only when they cross the line and claim a medical benefit, such as transdermally restructures cell matrix to remove wrinkles, or whatever  , that they have to show proof. So, if JM is not making any medical claims, only that it cosmetically enhances, then is she free to use the travapost (or any derivative thereof) without having to divulge it?
Gotta do more research. But if that's the case, then it's disturbing. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:32 pm |
| yeah it may or may not be travatan, we don't really know...and we probably never will. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:34 pm |
| dollbird wrote: |
This is scary. I clicked on the link you posted and totally agreed with one of the posters:
"The fact that it is safe to use for the treatment of glaucoma will have nothing to do with its use as a lash extender."
I question the long-term safety of using this product...sure Travopost is used to treat glaucoma but who knows how safe the JM serum is when it interacts with the other ingredients in the product. |
Exactly my point, and concern too. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:42 pm |
| leyel wrote: |
So, if JM is not making any medical claims, only that it cosmetically enhances, then is she free to use the travapost (or any derivative thereof) without having to divulge it?
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I honestly do not think that you are free to use a prescription drug in a product that is sold over the counter. Take the acitve ingredient in RetinA for example. You can not stick this in a face cream, make no medical claims and market it as somthing that improves the "look" of fine lines and sell it without a prescription. But then again there are ingredients like benzoyl peroxide that you can buy both prescription versions and OTC versions of. So maybe there are exceptions or maybe I am just wrong.  |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:15 pm |
| I 've heard from another site that Jan Marini stated that her secret ingredient is a prostaglandin, and Travatan is a prostaglandin. Travatan is FDA approved and has been around for a while so I assume that it is a relatively safe drug. There are other instances where one drug is used to treat different things. For example, Wellbutrin is used to treat depression but is also prescribed to help people quit smoking. I bet a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist would be willing to prescribe it for lash growth. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:36 pm |
| noleRN wrote: |
| I 've heard from another site that Jan Marini stated that her secret ingredient is a prostaglandin, and Travatan is a prostaglandin. Travatan is FDA approved and has been around for a while so I assume that it is a relatively safe drug. There are other instances where one drug is used to treat different things. For example, Wellbutrin is used to treat depression but is also prescribed to help people quit smoking. I bet a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist would be willing to prescribe it for lash growth. |
Yes, if you've read through the posts in the first link, it's clearly stated that the 'secret' ingredient is travapost, a synthetic prostaglandin.
| Quote: |
| Travatan is FDA approved and has been around for a while so I assume that it is a relatively safe drug |
Safe for what, though? As a treatment for glaucoma, or as a lash growth accelerator?
I don't know that I want a synthetic prostaglandin anywhere near my healthy eyes.
If this is what she's using, then I think she should disclose this and put it on the ingredient listing. As it is, it's referred to only as "Eyelash Growth Factor".
Ingredients:
Deionized Water, Hydrolyzed Glycosaminoglycan (and) Sodium Hyaluraonate, Triethanolamine, Propylparaben, Panthenol, Biotin, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Phosphate, EyeLash Growth Factor |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:47 pm |
I still think if any "drug" were used, she can't do that, it would be illegal. I can't by my meds, generic or not without a prescription. Confused...I can't imagine prescription strenght eyedrops are being used in this product.
I emailed asking...we'll see the answer. |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:19 pm |
I haven't researched the JM - BUT.... I think the Eyelash Growth Factor is something akin to this....
http://skinactives.com/products/hair_serum.htm
This company is merely a distributor. I located one of the companies that makes this but not on my regular computer with the link & can't recall the name of them. I posted this solely to show what I think it is, not to promote them one way or the other.
Using a 'drug' for glaucoma to sell lash serum is risky business. As I said, I haven't had the time to research it much but I think the link I posted is a better choice for the 'secret ingredient', although - on other forums have read where this isn't exactly thought to be a tremendously safe ingredient either.
I have no opinion 1 way or the other at this point, just dropping in my 2 cents... |
_________________
Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. ~ Voltaire www.Candessence.com |
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:02 pm |
http://www.rte.ie/health/2006/0105/health1074724.html
The article at this site claims that Jan Marini became interested in developing this product due to her own alopecia areata. This article specifically refers to it as a MEDICAL condition:
"But what if a medical condition was standing in your way of the look that you so desperately wanted? For some people, that is the harsh reality. Take alopecia, for instance.
"Hair problems (as in lack of it!) are normally the domain of the unfortunate male. But it's a condition that also affects women, in particularly disturbing ways. Thinning or bitty eyelashes and eyebrows is one way that Alopecia Areata attacks the female look; and a growing number of Irish women are now falling foul of the condition. The menopause, hormonal imbalances and stress are all common factors that can result in this potentially heartbreaking situation.
"It's a feeling that Jan Marini knows all about. For years this innovative researcher struggled with the problems caused by Alopecia Areata: "At one point, I had a gap of almost half an inch in my eyelashes. Eyelash extensions were not an option because there wasn't anything to attach them on to," explains Jan.
The best she could do was to try to cover up the problem with false eyelashes. But she wasn't happy with that. She began researching the problem and came up with a quite magical solution. It was a solution that was to lead to the Eyelash Growth Factor. Result: longer, fuller and darker eyelashes."
This is from the FDA site
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-hres.html
"Warning Letters Address Hair Care Products
Warning Letters issued by FDA to firms that marketed hair care products with claims such as restoration of hair growth, hair loss prevention, and treatment of dandruff illustrate an important legal distinction -- the difference between the legal definitions of cosmetics and drugs. Hair growers, hair loss prevention products, and dandruff treatments are considered drugs, not cosmetics, under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act). Cosmetics and drugs are subject to different legal and regulatory requirements. Failure to adhere to requirements for drugs resulted in Warning Letters being issued to the following firms...."
To me, it sounds as if the eyelash serum SHOULD be regulated since it is being marketed as a treatment for alopecia areata. Whether it actually IS regulated as a drug is another matter.
How do other people interpret this information? (I posted the website links so that people can look at the other information available.) |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:26 am |
I am convinced that if she is using Travatan in the product then what she is doing is illegal. My opinion however is that she IS NOT using Travatan in the eyelash serum. It doesn't matter whether it is prescription or OTC a drug is a drug and is regulated by the FDA. There are all sorts or requirements for products that contain drugs. If you pick up any OTC drug you will see that there is a label that has very specific information. This is required of any drug. Since the JM product does not have a drug label and a prescription is not required to obtain it, it has no drug in it. Yes drugs can be used for something other than what they are FDA approved for. This is called off-label use and like I mentioned before you still need a prescription to get a drug that is being used for a non FDA approved use.
Priscilla on the issue you raised as to whether the product should be regulated by the FDA. I honestly think that a lot of skincare products are coming very close to making medical claims in which case they would have to go through the FDA approval process. I am sure that if you look at JMs marketing claims closely it will not say that it is indicated for the treatment of alopecia. Just my guess. If they are saying that their product treats alopecia then I would think that they would either need to stop making those claims or submit for FDA approval as a drug. |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:42 am |
| Theresa, I have seen the claims that Jan Marini developed the Eyelash Intervention Serum to treat her own alopecia on several different websites...but I do not see it on the Jan Marini website, nor have I seen an official press release with this information. It's hard for me to believe, however, that the various 2nd party vendors are making it up. If Jan Marini (the company) is giving out promotional material to potential vendors that the product was inspired and intended as an alopecia treatment, then they definitely should then comply with the current laws for disclosure and reporting of ingredients, efficacy, etc. Alopecia is definitely a medical condition--different than something like "clogged pores" or "oily skin." |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:59 am |
Priscilla I imagine that JM is probably very careful to do their marketing in such a way that it does not cross the line and actually make a medical claim. I am sure that they are very mindful of what they say in their promotional materials. It is so easy to give the impression that you are making a claim without actually making that claim. I hope you understand what I am getting at. Is it fair, is it ethical? Maybe not.
Honestly I think that I would feel more comfortable if some skincare ingredients (such as growth factors) did go through the FDA approval process. Not only would they have to prove that they do what they say but they would also have to prove that they are safe. |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:53 am |
| I agree with you, Theresa! I would prefer if "cosmeceuticals" were regulated--at least to the extent that there is disclosure as to the identity of the active ingredients. As it is, we can only speculate as to what eyelash growth factor is and are not empowered to research it and make decisions accordingly. |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:57 pm |
| I'm completely & absolutely with Theresa. |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:44 pm |
| Quote: |
It's hard for me to believe, however, that the various 2nd party vendors are making it up. |
My friend said it in manner as if it were common knowledge in the profession. The website that I linked to, the trade board, I found that on my own and was just flabbergasted to read someone else in the industry say the same thing -- synthetic prostaglandin used in JM.
And Theresa, just to clarify, I don't think that Travatan, the brand name eye drops, is in the JM lash serum. What I'm referring to here is what the estheticians in the business have said -- it's travaprost, a synthetic prostaglandin, which is being used in the JM. There is a difference.
And until someone comes in with more information to dispute this (which I welcome!), it's my understanding that the FDA does NOT require a company to do safety tests if a product is labeled for COSMETIC use -- even IF the product may contain a pharmacological ingredient. The essence of this discussion is: Is JM using a pharmacological ingredient intended to treat a medical condition as an active ingredient in a cosmetic product?
| Quote: |
| As it is, we can only speculate as to what eyelash growth factor is and are not empowered to research it and make decisions accordingly. |
Priscilla, you and I are on the same wavelength. I don't see how those in the skin care field could get something like this so completely wrong.
I look forward to whatever else research comes our way to help answer this one way or the other.
And to the idea that JM wouldn't do anything to jeopardize image and so on, I believe that a company will do whatever they can, legally, sometimes just barely, get away with. Self-serving interests and all that.  |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:10 pm |
| Quote: |
And Theresa, just to clarify, I don't think that Travatan, the brand name eye drops, is in the JM lash serum. What I'm referring to here is what the estheticians in the business have said -- it's travaprost, a synthetic prostaglandin, which is being used in the JM. There is a difference.
And until someone comes in with more information to dispute this (which I welcome!), it's my understanding that the FDA does NOT require a company to do safety tests if a product is labeled for COSMETIC use -- even IF the product may contain a pharmacological ingredient. The essence of this discussion is: Is JM using a pharmacological ingredient intended to treat a medical condition as an active ingredient in a cosmetic product? |
leyel whether we are talking about Travatan or the active ingredient in Travatan which is travaprost, I don't think that either is in the JM product and like I said before if it is in there then what JM is doing is not legal! Whether is is a actual brand name drug or the active ingredient in the drug it is still regulated by the FDA. You either need a prescription to get it or in the case of OTC drugs the product that includes it has to have it listed on the label in a very specific way. Just look at any cold medicine and you will see what I mean. Sunscreen ingredients are the same way. The FDA has label requirements for these.
I do agree that companies are not required to perform safety tests or tests to prove effectiveness for that matter on a product that is sold and marketed as a cosmetic. But I really don't think that they can put a FDA regulated drug in a product and not have to do safety tests or even let anyone know that it is in the product. It would be a scary world indeed if anyone could stick a potent drug ingredient in any product and sell it without a prescription just because they are only making cosmetic claims. Personally I don't believe it is happening but if someone wants to show otherwise then I would change my mind!
| Quote: |
| As it is, we can only speculate as to what eyelash growth factor is and are not empowered to research it and make decisions accordingly. |
As to this point. I am in total agreement. I don't think that eyelash growth factor is travaprost but what exactly is it. I personally would not use this product until JM tells us exactly what eyelash growth factor is! Well I wouldn't use it anyway because I don't need help with my eyelashes but I think you get the point that I am trying to make. |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:27 pm |
This page on the FDA website summarizes the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act) and the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act (FPLA):http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-206.html
The FDA DOES regulate cosmetics--for example, cosmetics companies are in violation if their cosmetic "bears or contains any poisonous or deleterious substance which may render it injurious to users under the conditions of use prescribed in the labeling thereof or in part of any filthy putrid , or decomposed substance." Gotta love the diction and what it conjures.
Similarly, and as Theresa pointed out, the FDA regulates how cosmetics are labeled and packaged. Companies are responsible for the safety of their products and for labeling them appropriately if the safety has not yet been assessed.
What the FDA does NOT do is require cosmetics companies to get premarket FDA approval. The FDA does collect samples for examination and analysis as part of its inspections of manufacturing plants, import inspections, and follow-up to complaints of adverse reactions.
So if we trust JM to have done the appropriate safety studies and if we trust JM to have labelled its product appropriately, then it should be fine to use this eyelash serum. If JM hasn't done the testing, then in theory the FDA would eventually determine that it was unsafe but it could take a while! |
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:40 pm |
Pricilla, I am confused, am I getting this right, you think since she corrected a medical condition, that "medicine" must be in this product? Take botox, used for various eye problems for 20 yrs, they noticed...wow no more wrinkles on these people...then it started being used off label, yet I still would have to go to my dr. and get this product, he cant package it and let me rub it around my face, and call it his secret ingredient!!! Nor could I take prescription codiene add it too face cream, and say off label use therefore no prescription needed. So if by chance she is using this, shes walking a very bad line and will prob lose everything she's built. Weres Katy our resident lawyer when we need her...grins  !!!
Also the ladies using this ingredient to acheive fab lashes were still getting a prescrip from their doctors, going to pharmacy, filling prescrip and using it off label. I have emailed them and will post what they say.
ps. I really have no dog in this fight either, just awfully confused. I do use this and would like to honestly know, but my head says it can't be. |
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