Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in



Tanda ZAP - White Payot Techni Liss First First Wrinkles Smoothing Care (50 ml / 1.6 floz) Anthony Logistics Wake Up Call Hydrating Treatment Gel (90 ml / 3 floz)
Do you do Facial Exercises?

EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare
Reply to topic
Author Message
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:08 pm      Reply with quote
vangirl3 wrote:
Be careful with fat... I read somewhere that the satisfaction rate was less than 30%. Miss J's cosmetic surgery forum has quite a few discussions about it -- if you're interested.

Vangirl Smile


yes I know the FG is iffy but I know enough people who have retained for many years (over 8 ). I think it depends on so many things. If you are a smoker or even every were I think, then you really have less of a chance of retaining. I think if you do lots of hard core cardio it can go faster too. If you had a lot of fullness when younger then I think you might be more likely to retain. I had more fullness to my face than anyone I know and even in my late 40's I was like that. Menopause really changed things for me. So I have a feeling I will retain. It is an expensive experiment though, I admit. There are not just enough hours in the day to do all the upkeep. That is my problem.
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:31 pm      Reply with quote
vangirl3 wrote:


Okay, I can totally see what you want (me too !)Yeah, I've wrestled with getting a filler too but I'm just going to give the exercises more time (15 mos now -- 6 mos of doing said exercise wrong) before I cave in.

Vangirl Smile


Also Vangirl,

What do you mean you were doing them wrong? Sorry if you explained that earlier. If you did just let me know and I will search.
Thanks.
sister sweets
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 5982
Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:08 am      Reply with quote
Vangirl - Which of the FE exercises were you doing wrong???? Shoot maybe I am too. Shock I have noticed my zygomaticas minor has filled in quite a bit and buccinator also. I feel like I've worked very hard on building up but Out seems to have come easier.

_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event.
vangirl3
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 88
Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:27 am      Reply with quote
mommydearest wrote:


What do you mean you were doing them wrong? Sorry if you explained that earlier. If you did just let me know and I will search.
Thanks.


sister sweets wrote:
Vangirl - Which of the FE exercises were you doing wrong???? Shoot maybe I am too. Shock I have noticed my zygomaticas minor has filled in quite a bit and buccinator also. I feel like I've worked very hard on building up but Out seems to have come easier.


Basically, I was doing cheek raiser (caput infra-orbitale), wide laugh (zyg major), often corner mouth pull (risorus) & bottom furrow adv (caninus) wrong. What I was doing was applying so much resistance that I wasn't getting a contraction and I was mistaking the straining of my muscle for a contraction. I started applying over-the-top resistance about 6 mos into my training. In FE this is pulling the muscle and holding it so hard that you can barely contract & your fingers don't move up the muscle. I'm guessing but I would think in Ageless it would be squeezing so hard that your fingers don't move.

Sister, I feel like I've got enough lift. Totally happy about that. You know how you take you finger and lift the sides of your face to get your desired lift? Well, the amount is so negligible now. For me anyways. I'm jonesing for your projection outwards though -- that's great. For me much harder to do! And my buccs still haven't filled all the way in -- great for you.

_________________
43 y/o: dark hair, blue eyes, fair skin... Holy grails are Flex Effect and Retin A. Still trying to find the perfect 'physical' sunscreen
Hermosa
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 496
Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:51 pm      Reply with quote
I thought I was contracting but maybe I'm applying too much resistance. How can you tell?
vangirl3
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 88
Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:10 pm      Reply with quote
Hermosa, your fingers will move,if only slightly (if they move a lot and quickly you don't have enough resistance). Ie up for cheek raiser, up for bot fur adv, to the side for corner mouth pull & back to the ears for WL (very slight movement here, for me anyways!).

_________________
43 y/o: dark hair, blue eyes, fair skin... Holy grails are Flex Effect and Retin A. Still trying to find the perfect 'physical' sunscreen
cm5597
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 1312
Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:19 pm      Reply with quote
Hey Vangirl,

Interesting...I hadn't really thought to measure the range of motion (the distance my fingers move from the related position to the position in which my muscles are contracted). I seem to get between 2/3 - 1 inch for most of my cheek exercises. What are other people getting?

Smile

_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies.
Hermosa
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 496
Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:11 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks, Vangirl. I think I get the idea--I have been thinking I'm pressing too hard(-> gaunt cheeks). cm, I would say that range of motion sounds about right, assuming you're talking about the range from the point at which you start applying pressure to the point at which you're holding and counting to six (or however high you count).
vangirl3
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 88
Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:31 pm      Reply with quote
I have to give Cathy @ Flex Effect credit for explaining this to me. It has really helped me gauge my contractions. Seems obvious -- especially if you're a bodybuilder -- but didn't really click in until it was explained.

For me, I would guess my fingers move between 2mm (wide laugh) and about 2cm (wink)

_________________
43 y/o: dark hair, blue eyes, fair skin... Holy grails are Flex Effect and Retin A. Still trying to find the perfect 'physical' sunscreen
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:19 pm      Reply with quote
Hermosa wrote:
I thought I was contracting but maybe I'm applying too much resistance. How can you tell?


wow now I think I do it incorrectly. I do it so it looks just like the FE video but there is not way to tell how much resistance she is really giving. When she says "train hard" I thought that meant as much resistance as you can do. Now I am confused too. I just measured how far my fingers more and often it is only 1/4 inch. A am applying way way too much resistance.
vangirl3
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 88
Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:28 pm      Reply with quote
Mommy Dearest,

As much resistance as you can tolerate but allowing the muscle to fully contract. If the muscle doesn't contract or move, you're not getting any benefit.

For example, wink. Pull the muscle down with your finger, make the contraction. If you are pulling down so hard and you fingers/muscle doesn't move up, you're not contracting, you're just straining the muscle. Cathy gave me the example of one of those dumbbell bars. Say it's on the ground and you're trying to pick it up, if the weight is so heavy and you can't lift it (contract), you're just straining. Does that make sense?

Some muscles can tolerate a lot more resistance than others. My experience anyways.

Hope I haven't scared you or made you panic unnecessarily!

VG

_________________
43 y/o: dark hair, blue eyes, fair skin... Holy grails are Flex Effect and Retin A. Still trying to find the perfect 'physical' sunscreen
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:43 pm      Reply with quote
vangirl3 wrote:
Mommy Dearest,

As much resistance as you can tolerate but allowing the muscle to fully contract. If the muscle doesn't contract or move, you're not getting any benefit.

I have really strong facial muscles. So what I do is add lots of resistance and what happens is my muscles move but my fingers don't move much. My muscle moves into the resistance. Like it gets stopped.

For example, wink. Pull the muscle down with your finger,


hmm, well here I was doing it incorrectly. I was not actually pulling the facial muscles down with my hands and then applying resistance. I was just pressing in at area indicated to give resistance to the muscle and have it something to press up against.


ake the contraction. If you are pulling down so hard and you fingers/muscle doesn't move up, you're not contracting, you're just straining the muscle.

no I was not pulling down hard at all. I was pressing in with my fingers to resist.

My muscle moves up and my fingers might be pushed a tiny bit with by the muscle but not 1 inch. Maybe 1/4 inch. Also If I lesson up on the resistance then my fingers are going along for the ride. Is that what you want? Just a light pressure down over the muscle to make is slightly harder to move the muscle?


Cathy gave me the example of one of those dumbbell bars. Say it's on the ground and you're trying to pick it up, if the weight is so heavy and you can't lift it (contract), you're just straining. Does that make sense?

Some muscles can tolerate a lot more resistance than others. My experience anyways.

Hope I haven't scared you or made you panic unnecessarily!

LOL, I think I will recover. I did a Sype consult with Cathy and she never said I was doing anything wrong but perhaps it was not obvious. Only slightly wrong.


VG
vangirl3
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 88
Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:57 pm      Reply with quote
Mommy, with wink you pull down and hold. And then do the contraction as hard as you can. Perhaps I can get 2cm here because this muscle is really strong now.

If you don't pull down, you're not elongating the muscle. The book says "press firmly downward and hold." Try doing that and your muscle/finger will move farther up than if you are starting at a midpoint.

_________________
43 y/o: dark hair, blue eyes, fair skin... Holy grails are Flex Effect and Retin A. Still trying to find the perfect 'physical' sunscreen
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:20 pm      Reply with quote
vangirl3 wrote:
Mommy, with wink you pull down and hold. And then do the contraction as hard as you can. Perhaps I can get 2cm here because this muscle is really strong now.

If you don't pull down, you're not elongating the muscle. The book says "press firmly downward and hold." Try doing that and your muscle/finger will move farther up than if you are starting at a midpoint.


yes I see that makes sense. In the video I didn't think I was her really pulling her face very far with her fingers before the pressing with the muscle. When I do the wink then should I literally pull the muscle down so the lower eye lid pulls and the whole mid face moves down? I thought the pressing was more pinpointed than that. I guess I should look at the video again.
cm5597
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 1312
Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:15 am      Reply with quote
I guess I'm not understanding what you mean, Mommydearest, by "I have really strong facial muscles. So what I do is add lots of resistance and what happens is my muscles move but my fingers don't move much. My muscle moves into the resistance. Like it gets stopped."

Both my fingers and muscle move through the same distance during the exercise. Also, it's not that you are pushing the muscle to stop it but are pulling the muscle in the direction opposite to the direction it contracts in but at the same time contracting it. In case it helps, the goal is to not apply too much resistance to prevent it from moving through its full range of motion, but still to apply enough resistance that contracting the muscle through its full range of motion is very difficult.

HTH Smile

_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies.
Hermosa
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 496
Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:01 am      Reply with quote
Pushing against the muscle to stop it is applying resistance. You're making the muscle work harder. No?

That said, the mechanism varies among exercises. In chest pull, for example, the muscle is pulling away from the hands, whereas in mouth flex, it's as cm describes, with the fingers and muscles on the same track. That's my interpretation, anyway, having studied the book and spent time on the FE boards.
vangirl3
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 88
Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:19 am      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:
In case it helps, the goal is to not apply too much resistance to prevent it from moving through its full range of motion, but still to apply enough resistance that contracting the muscle through its full range of motion is very difficult.

HTH Smile


Perfect way to describe it. And Hermosa, if you completely stop the muscle from moving, it's just straining, you're not working it. I would think that you'd get a bulking at the point where you're locking on, as opposed to distributing the workout throughout the fibres of that particular muscle.

_________________
43 y/o: dark hair, blue eyes, fair skin... Holy grails are Flex Effect and Retin A. Still trying to find the perfect 'physical' sunscreen
cm5597
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 1312
Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:06 am      Reply with quote
Hermosa wrote:
Pushing against the muscle to stop it is applying resistance. You're making the muscle work harder. No?


Sorry, yes, I definitely agree that pushing provides resistance. Sorry, I wasn't clear, pushing should be as effective as pulling, as long as the pushing is done in the right direction (that is, opposite the direction of muscle contraction). Smile

_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies.
Hermosa
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 496
Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:07 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant by stopping the muscle was not preventing it from moving but rather applying opposite force as it is moving, effectively countering the muscle until you reach sort of an equilibrium state where there is sustained tension for a brief period of time. This isn't the case for all the exercises but exercises that involve the cheek muscles seem to use this kind of technique.
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:15 pm      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:
I guess I'm not understanding what you mean, Mommydearest, by "I have really strong facial muscles. So what I do is add lots of resistance and what happens is my muscles move but my fingers don't move much. My muscle moves into the resistance. Like it gets stopped."

sorry if it is confusing. Don't worry about it. I am fine. Just with the Wink I really am not seeing much finger movement but perhaps I have to pull down farther over the muscle. When I pull down the muscle it pulls my lower eye lid down. Is that supposed to happen? Are you supposed to pull that much?


Both my fingers and muscle move through the same distance during the exercise. Also, it's not that you are pushing the muscle to stop it but are pulling the muscle in the direction opposite to the direction it contracts in but at the same time contracting it. In case it helps, the goal is to not apply too much resistance to prevent it from moving through its full range of motion, but still to apply enough resistance that contracting the muscle through its full range of motion is very difficult.

yes that is a perfect description and that is what I was not doing enough, but I think just for that one exercise. Thanks.


HTH Smile
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:36 pm      Reply with quote
Hermosa wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant by stopping the muscle was not preventing it from moving but rather applying opposite force as it is moving, effectively countering the muscle until you reach sort of an equilibrium state where there is sustained tension for a brief period of time. This isn't the case for all the exercises but exercises that involve the cheek muscles seem to use this kind of technique.


so in general would you say that you can't take her instructions to "train hard" too literally if you are a person who tends to work hard naturally? Would you say that eventually you want the muscles to move the fingers? You don't want to apply so much pressure in towards the skull that the muscle hardly moves and causes just a super deep contraction? Seeing the muscles move upward is an important part of the exercise?
SeanySeanUK
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1086
Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:48 am      Reply with quote
The techniques above about movement and non movement are all good techniques (there really isn't a better one) so they will all produce good results. Its a hard concept for many people to grab, but when I teach FlexEffect, I often have people play with the positioning and movement and get them to do it a couple of ways and ultimately help them to decide on what to look for with each exercise. I have played personally with myself with resistance on many of them (and even used my palm butts which can really work those muscles big time) and its fun to experiment with.

_________________
Retired FlexEffect Trainer
cm5597
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 1312
Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:01 am      Reply with quote
mommydearest wrote:
sorry if it is confusing. Don't worry about it. I am fine. Just with the Wink I really am not seeing much finger movement but perhaps I have to pull down farther over the muscle. When I pull down the muscle it pulls my lower eye lid down. Is that supposed to happen? Are you supposed to pull that much?


Yes, when I do Wink, it pulls my lower eye lid down, too.


mommydearest wrote:
so in general would you say that you can't take her instructions to "train hard" too literally if you are a person who tends to work hard naturally? Would you say that eventually you want the muscles to move the fingers? You don't want to apply so much pressure in towards the skull that the muscle hardly moves and causes just a super deep contraction? Seeing the muscles move upward is an important part of the exercise?


YES, EXACTLY Smile

Here's some information on the differences between the two approaches that may help:

If the muscle does not move because you are "working too hard"--applying so much resistance that it does not move--you will still get some benefit and a small amount of muscle build. This approach to exercise where you apply resistance but the muscle does not move is known as isometric exercise. It is particularly good for toning--so you could mix it up and use this type of approach when you want to tone muscles, as Sean suggests for mixing it up--but it is not very good at building or increasing the size of your muscles. Isometrics do a good job of increasing strength near the ends of the muscle, but in a way that you don't get much visible muscle build. An example of an isometric exercise would be to hold a weight in place with your bicep curled at a right angle for a long time without moving. Another example would be the exercise system T-Tapp, which incorporates several isometric exercises and hence claims to create lean muscles and more muscle density towards the ends of the muscle.

If you want to increase the size of your muscles though, then you want to train as hard as you can, but still have the muscle move a lot, which means through its entire range of motion. A good analogy here would be doing dumbbell curls for your biceps. For each repetition of dumbbell curls, you want to fully extend your arms so that they are straight at the beginning of the rep. Then you curl your bicep in towards your body bringing the weight as close to your shoulder as possible...then you extend your arm straight again with the weight. That large amount of moving constitutes moving through the full range of motion: your bicep starts out in a stretched/relaxed position, contracts as much as possible all the way in to touch your shoulder while lifting the weight, and then extends back out to the starting fully extended/relaxed position. This would constitute one repetition (rep) of the exercise. In this scheme, you want the weight to be very heavy, so that it is difficult to do one rep, but still light enough that you can lift the dumbbell all the way to your shoulder and back down again. This approach does a good job of increasing strength and hence the size of the belly of the muscle. This type of approach to exercise--lifting heavy weights while slowly contracting and the elongating the muscle through its full range of motion--results in the most visible muscle build and increase in volume. This is why bodybuilders use this approach, and do not use isometric exercise or micro-current devices for their muscles; these other two approaches do not build muscles nearly as much.

Both approaches are useful, but they have different affects on the muscle. The sum total of all the differences between isometric and dynamic resistance exercises are somewhat more complex than this, but these are probably the main differences you need to know.

Does that explain things a bit better, and also when to use each of the two approaches? HTH Smile

_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies.
Vor
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 123
Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:29 pm      Reply with quote
Which kind of exercises improve and lift the under-eye area? Thank you!
mommydearest
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 586
Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:38 pm      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:


Does that explain things a bit better, and also when to use each of the two approaches? HTH Smile



wow cm5597 -- that was unbelievably clear. Are you perhaps a teacher or personal trainer? Thanks so much. I need the isometric for the lower face but the building for upper and mid. Now I just have to figure out the magic mix for me - choosing the best exercises for each area from all the facial programs I know. This really makes sense because I would say my mid to upper cheeks are very toned from the movements I have been doing. I get nice muscle movement with Facercise but since there is not resistance I never saw building. Now I just have to take it to the next level.
Thanks so much.
System
Automatic Message
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:56 pm
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic



glominerals Dual Essence Clutch Pevonia Spa Clinica Pro Micro-Retinol Essential Moisturizer (50 ml / 1.7 floz) Orlane Oligo Hypoallergenique Cleanser Lotion Duo (2 items)