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Do you do Facial Exercises?

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bethany
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:52 pm      Reply with quote
amonavis wrote:
If the point of botox is to paralyze the face muscles that cause wrinkles, wouldnt facial exercises actually make wrinkles worse?


No...what I learned in reading the books from both programs is that skin actually wrinkles because aging muscles don't snap back to laying flat after being used. Botox relaxes the muscle which makes it lay flat, and your skin can now lay flat (and the wrinkles disappear)

So the goal is to exercise the muscle to get it to lay flat again (without Botox)....the skin will then lay smoothly on the flat muscle, and your wrinkles will disappear.

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cora-lu
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:52 pm      Reply with quote
i do one facial exercise, because i have the tendency to get those 2 lines on the sides of my mouth (like round brackets). So what i do for this is fill my mouth with air, and then slowly release it.

And i also like to make funny faces in the mirror Razz Not sure how much that helps Very Happy
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:41 pm      Reply with quote
Botox doesn't actually prevent facial muscles from atrophying or aging as such, it simply paralyzes them, so the aging process still occurs.

Bethany is correct though, lines don't really appear from muscle movement, but where the tissue lacks resiliency. Facial exercises sometimes exposes damaged tissue (which you would carry around anyhow and it would eventually show up) however, I think facial exercises because of the increased blood circulation to each muscle (which sometimes is ten times the amount that its used to) dislodges damaged tissue and it begins making its exit. This is where facial exercises are great... because when signs like these show up you have tools to use to strengthen the damaged tissue and reverse the aging process.[quote="amonavis"]If the point of botox is to paralyze the face muscles that cause wrinkles, wouldnt facial exercises actually make wrinkles worse?[/quote]
SeanySeanUK
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:45 pm      Reply with quote
There are strict rules about codes of conduct and advertising on EDS which we all have to abide by and I personally wouldn't want to ignore any of the rules in place.

Usually trainers will try and help anyone out there who asks for it... and as such in the past I have directed people to the FE forum where they can get technical guidance from other flexers or trainers online (without breaking any rules).

I truly do not think anyone intends to ignore any questions asked on the forum, but its silly to have the resource of a forum specifically for Flexing where you can post and get your questions answered rather than on here which doesn't support FlexEffect isn't it?

Kassy_A wrote:
Here's a FE thread that was active a couple of months ago; (There are several others)

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=30795

I just *bumped* it up!

You can answer all questions, and talk about it at length.. What you can't do is *sell* it..

Lots of members here use and love Flex Effect, but when pointed questions were ever asked in any of the threads, they couldn't or wouldn't be answered... (Quite like walking on eggshells IMHO anyway.)

It would be nice to see an active FE thread.. :)
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:50 pm      Reply with quote
SeanySeanUK wrote:
Botox doesn't actually prevent facial muscles from atrophying or aging as such, it simply paralyzes them, so the aging process still occurs.

Bethany is correct though, lines don't really appear from muscle movement, but where the tissue lacks resiliency. Facial exercises sometimes exposes damaged tissue (which you would carry around anyhow and it would eventually show up) however, I think facial exercises because of the increased blood circulation to each muscle (which sometimes is ten times the amount that its used to) dislodges damaged tissue and it begins making its exit. This is where facial exercises are great... because when signs like these show up you have tools to use to strengthen the damaged tissue and reverse the aging process.

amonavis wrote:
If the point of botox is to paralyze the face muscles that cause wrinkles, wouldnt facial exercises actually make wrinkles worse?


Botox does not prevent atrophy - the plastic surgeon I know said the muscles often become less strong from lack of use over time (due to the botox paralizing them) - sort of like when you have your leg in a cast and the muscle tends to atrophy over the six week time period.
bethany
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:56 pm      Reply with quote
SeanySeanUK wrote:
amonavis wrote:
If the point of botox is to paralyze the face muscles that cause wrinkles, wouldnt facial exercises actually make wrinkles worse?


Botox doesn't actually prevent facial muscles from atrophying or aging as such, it simply paralyzes them, so the aging process still occurs.

Bethany is correct though, lines don't really appear from muscle movement, but where the tissue lacks resiliency. Facial exercises sometimes exposes damaged tissue (which you would carry around anyhow and it would eventually show up) however, I think facial exercises because of the increased blood circulation to each muscle (which sometimes is ten times the amount that its used to) dislodges damaged tissue and it begins making its exit. This is where facial exercises are great... because when signs like these show up you have tools to use to strengthen the damaged tissue and reverse the aging process


I would like to point out that pretty much everyone looks great after they have been Botox'd....the muscles relax and the lines smooth out within 10 days. You don't generally see damaged tissue.

Maybe this is just a difference in thought between the FlexEffect viewpoint (damages tissue causes wrinkles) and the Ageless viewpoint (aging muscles don't fully relax after contracting)?

I am going to have to go back to the FlexEffect book and see what Deb says.

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ClaudiaFE
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:12 pm      Reply with quote
Having had a few limbs in a cast at various times in my life... I can honestly say... there is NOTHING uglier than a atrophied muscle... it looks Old and yucky to me... I will never forget the horror of having my leg in a cast for 8 weeks... I literally sat in the parking lot and cried about my new appearance of my leg... it looked about 80 years old...

Botox has it's place... I personally believe for it's original intention... for those that have severe problems with muscles overly activating and causing pain... but that is MY opinion. It will give the location of injection a smoother appearance... the muscles can not contract in EITHER direction. So, if you're a frowner... you can't frown... nor can you raise your eyebrows... Probably really good if you're heavy into playing Poker. And maybe good if you just can't relax an expression that is dominating your face.
However, if you were to work the muscles/movement responsible for the opposite movement/expression then you could easily stop the held frowning expression and minimize or eliminate the 11's that occur from that.

Honestly, if you have really bad frown lines (the 11's) consider what is leading you to them... constant squinting (out in the sun, can't see?) Get good sunglasses or reading glasses... or are you always ticked off... Try anger management... Now if you've developed major smile lines... I would never say stop laughing... but there is a way to address it..

Botox works for a face the same way a stroke does... but really, even if you're looking at a wrinkle free stroke victim... you know it's not the desired look for youthfulness...

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bethany
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:22 pm      Reply with quote
Claudia, can you please address what FlexEffect's view is on why wrinkles occur and how facial exercise can eliminate them?

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ClaudiaFE
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:48 pm      Reply with quote
From our copyrighted materials: Please do not repost.

"Lines and wrinkles are caused when skin cells lose vitality and lack resiliency. When this occurs, it enable facial expression to set lines and folds. Which incidentally would NOT have happened in the time that it did had you handled your face in the first place... Do not be concerned that facialbuilding will further weaken the so-called delicate tissues. The cells you are looking at today are history. Concern yourself only with strengthening future cells."...

This is a clip form our 2nd edition book, page 11.

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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB!
bethany
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:22 pm      Reply with quote
ClaudiaFE wrote:
From our copyrighted materials: Please do not repost.

"Lines and wrinkles are caused when skin cells lose vitality and lack resiliency. When this occurs, it enable facial expression to set lines and folds. Which incidentally would NOT have happened in the time that it did had you handled your face in the first place... Do not be concerned that facialbuilding will further weaken the so-called delicate tissues. The cells you are looking at today are history. Concern yourself only with strengthening future cells."...

This is a clip form our 2nd edition book, page 11.


Ok...this is indeed a difference in opinion between the 2 authors (and differences are good! Very Happy )

bethany wrote:
I would like to point out that pretty much everyone looks great after they have been Botox'd....the muscles relax and the lines smooth out within 10 days. You don't generally see damaged tissue.

Maybe this is just a difference in thought between the FlexEffect viewpoint (damaged tissue causes wrinkles) and the Ageless viewpoint (aging muscles don't fully relax after contracting)?


So if we followed the FlexEffect viewpoint and focused exclusively on rejuvenating skin (which you can do without facial building), then we could get rid of wrinkles, but would lack volume in our faces because the fat level has progressively declined.

But the Ageless viewpoint is that exercising the muscles to make them act younger (and lay flatter) helps the wrinkles disappear (and will increase volume at the same time).

Either way, facial exercise is a very good thing from a volume standpoint. But the difference in opinions on how wrinkles are actually created/treated is interesting.

Editing to Add:
This is just something that I thought was interesting, and hadn't really considered before now. But it should NOT become a topic of dispute between the 2 vendors here on the EDS, because that really wouldn't beneft anyone.

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Kassy_A
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:58 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
[ - the plastic surgeon I know said the muscles often become less strong from lack of use over time (due to the botox paralizing them) - sort of like when you have your leg in a cast and the muscle tends to atrophy over the six week time period.


Tis true, from a medical standpoint.. With repeated use of Botox, and the continued lack of use, the muscle will indeed experience some atrophy.

Think; If you don't use it, you lose it!

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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:05 pm      Reply with quote
ClaudiaFE wrote:


Botox works for a face the same way a stroke does... but really, even if you're looking at a wrinkle free stroke victim... you know it's not the desired look for youthfulness...


You said it!

Recently expired corpses have the same look, before rigor sets in.. Sad


Editing to add: after re-reading my post it looks like I'm putting down Botox, and that is not my intention.. Although I don't choose to use it, I've seen lovely results on others, until the point they excede 'moderation'.

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:30 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Editing to add: after re-reading my post it looks like I'm putting down Botox, and that is not my intention.. Although I don't choose to use it, I've seen lovely results on others, until the point they excede 'moderation'.


aka Nicole Kidman...even though she says she is "all natural." Uh huh, Nicole, whatever you say.... Rolling Eyes

I love Botox, and only stopped because it was so darn expensive since I am resistant. But I may try one of the new alternatives in the spring if I do not see a significant reduction in my forehead lines by the end of March. That will be 5 months of facial exercise, so that should be a fair shot.

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Kassy_A
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:35 pm      Reply with quote
Laughing Laughing Laughing

The celebs are ALL natural, dontcha know.. Rolling Eyes

As for those forehead lines, I bet the dermaroller will tackle it by March.

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:40 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
As for those forehead lines, I bet the dermaroller will tackle it by March.


We'll see...it would be nice!

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Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:06 pm      Reply with quote
Claudia - I get Botox in my 11's only and can raise my eyebrows with no difficulty. I just can't frown inward. that's it. I guess it's a matter of quantity of product and placement that determines how frozen you are.

Beth - I did FE for five months and still needed to freeze the 11's. I gave it a good six months without. closer to seven. Maybe you'll make out better - especially for the expense of it all. I seem to get away pretty cheap.
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:42 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Beth - I did FE for five months and still needed to freeze the 11's. I gave it a good six months without. closer to seven. Maybe you'll make out better - especially for the expense of it all. I seem to get away pretty cheap.


I am betting that I will have to freeze my forehead, darn it. But we'll see...I'll keep everyone posted. And thanks for the scoop!

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Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:02 pm      Reply with quote
I suppose you guys have tried frownies. They really make a difference for me. The tape substitution didn't work as well. I had deep frowning lines and lls since childhood. After using frownies they are much improved and don't bother me at all. I do have to keep the frownies up(my nighttime botox)with out the side effects and cost Laughing Laughing Laughing Not the most romantic attire that I have ever worn though Rolling Eyes
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:24 am      Reply with quote
I thought that wrinkles were caused by the loss of collagen and elastin in the skin. This basically starts to happen after the age of 25 (when the body reaches it's physical peak). After that, it's downhill all the way. In addition to that, as we age, our whole physical frame gets smaller - we shrink. So what happens to all that extra skin? - it wrinkles. I'm sure that even if a body was laying in a coma for it's entire life (God forbid!) it would still get wrinkles.

Obviously anything that we can do to keep our body at an optimum level, like healthy lifestyle choices etc. etc. is going to help. Exercise is a part of that, of course, but aren't we exercising our facial muscles all the time as we go about our every-day lives? The massage, I can understand, because by bringing blood to the surface of the skin you're stimulating your cells.

As for Nicole Kidman - I don't think she'd be doing too many facial exercises!! Her face is set like cement - however, she does fascinate me. I believe her face and skin are totally "manufactured" but compared to many in Hollywood, she has managed not to look freakish.
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:31 am      Reply with quote
Well, my plastic surgeon said botox prevent future wrinkles, in that you dont make the expressions that cause the skin to fold and make a wrinkle. So where do exercises fit in?You are constantly making expressions which could make permanent folds in your skin.Like when you wear a new pair of shoes for a year and they then begin to get folds and wrinkles from constant use.....or could exercises actually build a strong foundation UNDER your skin which would give support or smooth out the wrinkles?? Rolling Eyes who knows!
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:01 pm      Reply with quote
For me - the 11's were made by an unattractive expression I did regularly (and with zero benefit unlike Facial exercises).... all they did was cause a wrinkle. With botox I no longer make those frown lines ; therefore not creating those wrinkles. Botox has helped to prevent them from being permanent - just like your PS told us. Adn mine told me. Plus not using the muscle allows atrophy somewhat.

Facial Exercises are not the same as wrinkling up your face (as I did with my 11's). They are like exercising your body and massaging your body - helping skin turnover and helping muscles lie flat (like working your stomach - for lack of a better analogy). If Facial exercises caused worse wrinkling Deb from FE would not look the way she does at 60 without plastic surgery, fillers, botox or other intervention.
I think we have been told to not handle our face for so long that we have a fear. Deb herself has said FE is not a magic bullet but given a year of steadfast facial work results will happen.
I'm into five months of constant (almost daily) exercising and I can even feel a different in the way I hold my face - the way it feels is more uplifted. More contours are slowly improving. I was starting to have some small "divits' in lower face and they are no longer evident.
I massage - pull and pinch and can feel the skin toughening and firming as a result.

lucyluc wrote:
Well, my plastic surgeon said botox prevent future wrinkles, in that you dont make the expressions that cause the skin to fold and make a wrinkle. So where do exercises fit in?You are constantly making expressions which could make permanent folds in your skin.Like when you wear a new pair of shoes for a year and they then begin to get folds and wrinkles from constant use.....or could exercises actually build a strong foundation UNDER your skin which would give support or smooth out the wrinkles?? Rolling Eyes who knows!
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:17 pm      Reply with quote
I bought my Flex Effect, viewed once but never try.
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:21 pm      Reply with quote
critic wrote:
I bought my Flex Effect, viewed once but never try.

Yes, you already said so. Sell it. Just be sure to give whomever buys it the code to get into the forum.
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:12 pm      Reply with quote
critic wrote:
I bought my Flex Effect, viewed once but never try.


Why dont you just go ahead and try it critic? Seeing as you paid for it...otherwise you've wasted your money.

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Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:13 pm      Reply with quote
carolb69 wrote:
critic wrote:
I bought my Flex Effect, viewed once but never try.


Why dont you just go ahead and try it critic? Seeing as you paid for it...otherwise you've wasted your money.


Actually, once you get going on it, it is not nearly as overwhelming as it looks!

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