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PocoLoco
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:26 pm      Reply with quote
Well, all I can say is that if Kandis were to say that such-and-such action is caused by this ingredient, and this other action is caused by this other ingredient, it would ease my mind as I like to know why am supposed to do things in a certain way. It would not make me any less happy with the system to know the science behind it. The opposite, in fact. I've just never been an operate-on-faith kind of person.

And as for the comment about sunscreen use, I think that is an excellent suggestion for an enhancement to these products. If I have tender new lip skin, it would make me feel safe to know that I'm protecting them with a compatible lip care product that contains sunscreen.

Just for the record I am not trying to say that I don't think this system works--not at all--I just think it would sell better and promote better customer loyalty (for the kind of critical consumer that I am), to better explain how it works.
Lucia
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:33 pm      Reply with quote
Ok going to be brave put my head above the parapet and my neck on the block and say Yes - I am also a tad sceptical. Laughing
However I would like to say that I am really glad that some forum members are having results (my question is would be WHY)! hmm

(Maybe its my Beauty Therapy Training that's to blame but I like to understand things form a factual point of view not just hear analogies! Laughing )

I can't help feeling that my original query regarding how the hairdryer thing works wasn't *really* answered.

When you post queries about JB or PSF products (and of course our own CareKate & Candy) the answers are always clear, and backed up by facts and/or clinical trials.

I don't doubt that the system does produce fuller lips and I DO agree that petrochemical and wax based lip treatments can and do cause as many problems as the 'cure' but as I previously said I can't help being a tad sceptical as to the WHY!

From a logical point of view lips will swell and look redder due to the following:
The Heat (due to increased circulation)- hairdryer.
Moisture -from the H Acid in the products.(Although HA CAN appear to dry out the surface of the skin if an emollient isn't used after or with it - which is why most people combine it with Emu or another oil)
Irritation (as used by plumpers like Lip Venom etc etc)- which both the continual exfoliation and heat could cause.

I wonder if you replaced the L2K products with plain old HA, CareKates lip scrub and say Emu Oil instead BUT followed the same routine/regime that is instructed by L2K including the whole Hairdrying thing whether you would get the same 'progress' with the peeling etc.
Wink
Personally any product that causes peeling to the extent reported here puts me off anyway - peeling and redness are the result of imflammation/irritation.

(Going back to my corner now!) Silenced

(For those of you who post on the SkinCareBoard - would love to know what DebNIR would have made of this).

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Tangal
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:50 pm      Reply with quote
I agree with many of the comments above, which were all things bugging me as well. Lots of tap dancing going on. Hate that. I am just to new on the board to have voiced them myself. Wink

I also am not thrilled using a product with no actual ingredient info available. Other companys don’t post the ingredients on their site – that’s fine. But it IS on the package , box or product insert.

Yes some ingredients are on the L2K site. But There is not an actual complete listing anywhere publically. I thought it would be on the packaging, when I ordered.

But its not on the package, not on an insert, not on the paperwork etc. I think legally, a product sold for consumer use must have the ingredients on the products. And for Pro use, it can be sent either as an insert, or a separate document?

Legally it must be provided if the consumer asks for it. Yet when I tried to get this info, I was never really given it – other then the vague stuff already on the site. Which is not a complete listing.

This concerns me. I wanted to try the product, and am glad I did, as I want to see if it does what it claims. If it does then great. And so far it seems some really do love it.

But without better ingredient info – I probably will not continue to use it, unless the company can sent me something that details what I am using better.

I want to know what I am using, especially for long-term usage. And I cannot recommend any product without knowing the ingredients it utilizes. I consult with a number of companys and clients, and I am always asked about "whats in this product" whenever I recomend something.

Just telling me (or anyone) “oh its safe because my testers used it” does not mean much to me at all. Photos mean very little also.

There are thousands of ingredients on drugstore shelves that are still not great for maintaining healthy skin. Very Happy

I need to see what I am useing, so I can address if its a "safe" or "good" option for me personally.
Smoothskin
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:55 pm      Reply with quote
It is shocking that the ingredients are not on the packaging. Most companies now even list ingredients on their samples...
Tangal
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:56 pm      Reply with quote
I agree, I was very surprised as well. Hopefully just an oversight, it would be nice if this info was provided to customers.
Tangal
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:01 pm      Reply with quote
I am also unclear how to use sunscreen on lips with this product?

After lips are repaired, etc one can then wear "other" lipsticks or glosses a few times a week, and continue with the treatment in the PM. Or wear onlt the L2K colors daily.

But I wear sunscreen daily on face and lips also.

I am not comfortable stopping sunscreen use on my lips daily.

Right now its not an issue, with winter, my outdoor time is very limited, so for a shorttime - I can go without. But come summer I will have more UV exposure.

UV damage effects lips just like all other areas.
Smoothskin
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:11 pm      Reply with quote
Maybe a natural, titanium dioxide or zinc based sunscreen could be used with this system, or for all we know there might be sun protection in Lips2Kiss...
Tangal
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:15 pm      Reply with quote
The product may already incluide a screen. Smile Thats true, and hopefully we can find that out.

But both Zinc and Titanium can effect penitration of other ingrediants (in other types of formulas).

Possibly incluiding penitration of the "gloss/glaze" you are supposed to apply through the day. It needs to penitrate to benifit the lip tissues.
rubby
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:42 pm      Reply with quote
Lucia wrote:

(For those of you who post on the SkinCareBoard - would love to know what DebNIR would have made of this).


Sad Crying or Very sad Oh, it'd be lovely to get Deb's thoughts on this one (and many other things).

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patrod
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:55 pm      Reply with quote
I don't see where anyone has asked Kandis for an ingredient listing.

Pat,
Tangal
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:12 pm      Reply with quote
well I asked her on email not on the board.
catski
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:46 pm      Reply with quote
This is a helpful turn, on this thread.

It will be really good when Kandis chimes in and answers these questions which have been so articulately expressed, and which I think were puzzling quite a number of us.
Tosca
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:52 pm      Reply with quote
Rjez wrote:
Tosca wrote:
(Just watched him add about six inches to a girl's legs and a full cup size to her breasts.)

OMG ... imagine if you could package THAT and sell it?


Yeah, Rjez, he'd be a millionaire! I'd definitely have to get in on the legs part. I was just complaining yesterday that I can't even reach half of my kitchen cabinets. Confused

On the blow drying part of L2K, I just went and tried that with Lipfusion XL. It definitely tingled and made my lips look plumper - just an experiment that proves nothing and shows nothing. I'm very confused about what product could be activated to provide long-term benefits by this, though. It seems to me that hot wind would dry out the lip tissues.

I would be reluctant to put this on my lips without an ingredient list. Whatever is on your lips is not only absorbed through the skin, but also ingested.

Not to say I'm convinced that it doesn't work. I'm following the progress with great interest, but it sounds like a scam to me.
Safire
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:09 pm      Reply with quote
patrod wrote:
I don't see where anyone has asked Kandis for an ingredient listing.

Pat,


I did post the this a few pages back, but I assumed Kandis just didn't want to answer it.
BluesHeart
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:16 pm      Reply with quote
Just a few things if I may.

Would you all be clamoring for Carrie's ingredient list? What about the proprietary lashgro formula in JM and Revitalash? Have any of you used either of those products?

Curiosity is a wonderful thing as is learning. As long as it stays respectful. There have been a few times I've thought it's bordered on disrespectful. Just mho, of course.

For the record, I've used the product for approximately six weeks blow drying nightly and occasionally in the morning if the urge was there and no drryness at all. My lips have never felt so healthy. For what it's worth.

Kimberly
Tangal
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:46 pm      Reply with quote
Actually I have JM and Revitalash on order. And both have the majority of the ingrediants on the label or packaging, in order of percentage.

A few ingrediants are listed as propritary, at low percentages - that is not a problem for me personally, because 97% of the ingrediant listing is still clearly available. Other companys also do this.
I can still see what I am useing for the largest portion of the product. Which is fine for me. Smile And I can read the info on the product if I have a concern, and research its side effects.

If I used Carries product, I would also request the same info.

If the above companys did not provide info either, I would also be just as uncomfortable with useing them continually.

I don't think it is unresonable for a consumer to want a clear ingrediant listing for a product applyed many times a day to a mucus membrane area like lips. And legally I think manufacterers are required to provide that info with the product, other then specific propritary portions.

I work with many companys in the cosmetic sunless product and skincare industry that don't post ingrediants on their website.

Thats fine. But they do provide the ingrediant info on packages, boxs, inserts, data sheets and/or when requested by the customer. In fact before I evaluate and review them I require a detailed ingrediant list as well. This is done for many reasons. So I can evaluate it correctly, so I can recomend it appropriately etc.

If it contains nut oil for example - I need to know this for my clients that have nut allergies. Or if it contains camphor, I need to know for clients with sensitivity issues. If it has a fragrance or perservative, I need to know the type for clients that react to those ingrediants.

I am not saying the product does not work. Many people are having good luck with it, and I hope I do as well. But I also would feel better knowing what I was useing in more detail. This is true of all products used on my skin. Smile And it does effect my purchase and recomendation decisions.
Tosca
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:11 pm      Reply with quote
I understand what you're saying, BluesHeart. Here's my take on it:

I trust Carrie completely because of her knowledge and her presence on this forum. Also, a lot of her recipes are on the DIY sticky. I feel like if I had questions about a product she'd answer them satisfactorily. Same thing with Candy. I want to use JM or Revitalash, but I am not, partly because I don't know what the proprietary ingredients are.

I apologize because I realize that I do sound disrespectful. I guess I am very reluctant to use anyone's products without being able to find out what is in them.

I know that you and a few others feel that you're getting very positive results from the L2K system. I am following your progress with interest, and I may, at some point in the future, invest in it myself. I'm just extremely skeptical for the time being because something about Kandis' posts rub me the wrong way. Confused Sorry.
BluesHeart
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:27 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you Tangirl. I understand your pov. I work with people, not their faces but their bodies and I do understand how important the proper information is. I have no problems with that.

Fair enough Tosca. Smile I'm sure you weren't meaning to be rude. Btw, did you find the info you were looking for regarding NIA24?

Forgive me, but I've watched a couple of threads that disintegrated into gang bangs and it was very uncomfortable to watch.

Kimberly
Tosca
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:38 pm      Reply with quote
I did find the NIA24! I'm definitely thinking about buying some. I've been spot treating, but I have so many sun damage freckles that I'll probably die of old age before I get them all that way. The NIA24 looks like something I could use on my back by myself.
BluesHeart
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:01 pm      Reply with quote
Do any Dr's in your area sell it? I would definitely try to get a sample first. I got quite a bit of use out of my sample. Enough to know it would be worth buying. The clinic near me had a sale on all the products and I got mine at 30% percent off. If you cannot find a sample let me know and I'll see if I can either get a sample or send some out from my tube. I'd purchased a TCA peel to use there and it was totally unnecessary. I was amazed at how well it removed the spots on my chest.

kimberly
Tosca
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:07 pm      Reply with quote
I'll bet they do because we have a few cosmetic derms in the area. I'll call around and check tomorrow. If I can't find one, I'll take you up on the offer. Thanks a lot! Very Happy
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:27 pm      Reply with quote
(okay, I KNOW I should search but I'm lazy right now)
What is NIA24?

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Tosca
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:51 pm      Reply with quote
Rjez, it's this great stuff that Kimberly told me about that helps with sun damage spots. Here's a link:

http://www.nia24.com/products/scrub.cfm?t=4
Tosca
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:59 pm      Reply with quote
KANDIS wrote:
...I would never take advantage of you. I think you have appreciated being enlightened about why your lips have aged as they have and lastly, I believe almost all of you who are using my system, trust me. To the person to whom my posts have just never set right, and to the other who verbally accosted me for calling someone sweetheart, please don’t ever order my system or my products. If you can’t respect me for what I’ve accomplished after devoting 5 years of my life so that I can help other women, then neither of you deserve to be one of them.

KANDIS[/color]


Ouch! Did we hit a sore spot here??

Hiya, Kandis. Both of those persons would be me, although I don't know that I "verbally accosted" you. It's nothing personal, but there's very little factual information available (in English!) on your products at this point in time. In my experience, trust is highly overrated, especially when there's a person on every street corner waiting to take your money. If the product works for ESTABLISHED forum members here,then I agree: you're the lip-saving goddess you claim to be. I'll contain my disappointment at not being allowed to purchase your products. That would be TOSCA who's banned.

Let's be honest, though. We're all very concerned with our appearance, or we wouldn't be here. Your system may, indeed, be wonderful and marvelous. However, it's not as if you found the cure for cancer, so lets don't get self-righteous here.

I've been following this thread from the first post and holding my tongue waiting to see what happens. My speaking up really has nothing to do with anyone else's products. It has more to do with realizing that there are others who may be slightly suspicious.

You're obviously well-trained in sales. Congratulations, but sorry, the ol' answering your question with an analogy to a tree just doesn't cut it for me. I'm a "tell me why" person. It's nothing to do with disrespecting you. I don't blindly trust anyone else either.

It's not my desire to upset other forum members, so I'm really holding my tongue here. (Kimberly, I'm very, very sorry, but I got a little angry. Confused )
KANDIS
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:28 pm      Reply with quote
[ Tosca wrote: If the product works for ESTABLISHED forum members here,then I agree: you're the lip-saving goddess you claim to be

What do you consider ESTABLISHED?
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