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lovey
New Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
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Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:22 am |
I love my Obagi, 2.5 wks into it and just wonderful Thanks EDS |
_________________ WE MAKE THE DIFFERENCE |
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:02 pm |
I know there are some current studies being done right now on how Obaggi and there's some controversy around it, but I can say that people I know that are using it swear by it and those that don't and are using something else, may get same results, but it takes longer. As some Obaggi users are deciding to come off it, they are happy of their results and are hoping to maintain it with other products. Again, carcinogens re: hydroquinone and another study about how the results aren't any different than what a lower level product can do for you.
Again, I think my friends who are using it love it and know they won't be using it for life but won't stop till they get the results they are looking for. |
_________________ Basil (Ottawa, ON CANADA) |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:07 am |
I recently ordered Obagi 5% and 15% Vit C serums from another site and used the 15% for about 2 weeks.
Then I read on an EDS forum that Vit C applications should generally be clear unless a colourant is in the ingredient listing. Being new (read totally ignorant) to Vit C serums I had no idea that yellowing meant degredation of the product (forgot lots of my HS chemistry).
All to say, when I rec'd the 15%, had difficulty opening it since so much grit around throat of bottle, and the liquid was a medium yellow altho' the 5% was clear.
After reading about yellow/degredation, stopped using the 15%. Question is - was I right to do so?
Am confident that I was not responsible for yellowing and have properly treated & stored both products. And I have attempted without success to determine if anything other than oxidation i.e.other ingredients in the 15% solution, could cause the yellowing.
Can some/any more knowledgable than me re Obagi comment pls
Thanks |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:20 am |
arya2, I dont know about Obagi, but Cellex-c has Vit C serum as well, this is from the instruction.
Advanced-C Serum will darken with time due to a bio-chemically controlled reaction. This gradual oxidation is essential to the potency of L-Ascorbic Acid and will not significantly affect the efficacy of this product when used as directed." |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:57 am |
gracedhy wrote: |
arya2, I dont know about Obagi, but Cellex-c has Vit C serum as well, this is from the instruction.
Advanced-C Serum will darken with time due to a bio-chemically controlled reaction. This gradual oxidation is essential to the potency of L-Ascorbic Acid and will not significantly affect the efficacy of this product when used as directed." |
gracedhy the part I put in bold has me totally puzzled could you tell me exactly where you saw this information? I could guess what Cellex-C is getting at here but it still seems like a very odd way to put it. |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:17 am |
Thanks gracedhy. Judging from Mabsy's review the quote is actually from the bottle! It still strikes me as a very odd way to say that basically any water based C serum with l-ascorbic acid will oxidize and that if you want to have an effective C serum that contains the clinically proven form of vitamin C then a little oxidization is going to happen. As to whether it affects the efficacy that is debatable and would depend on just how much it has oxidized! |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:06 pm |
gracedhy & TheresaL
Thanks so much for replies.
So, because there is water in the 15% solution, some oxidation is bound to occur hence the yellow colour?
It is not a deep yellow but the grit around the bottle neck plus the yellow colour (Tangal's long primer on Vit C alerted me) did concern me.
Seems to me tho' that with each of these present in this particular bottle, what I rec'd wouldn't qualify as a 'fresh' solution.
And while people seem to have preferred formulae from various lines, I'm inclined to consider making my own rather than spending $80+ for something that clearly isn't fresh.
I had noted on a thread from TPF that the addition of Germaben II as a preservative was advisable. Mind you this was for the eyes, but still, the recipe called for water. pls see the quote below.
***********
ophelia
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: Can homemade vitamin C serum be used around eye area?
I was wondering if this version of Vitamin C Serum can be used around the eye area as well? I just started using this today and it seems to be quite nice. My skin has a glow which I have not seen in many a days and I can actually feel it tightens.
Ingredients as followed:
1 1/2 teaspoon distilled water
1/3 teaspoon l'ascorbic acid
1/4 propylene glycol
1/4 hyaluronic acid
Thanks
Back to top
The Formulator
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 69
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:
Ophelia,
This formula does not have any preservative in it. The eye area is particularly sensitive to possible microbial attack due to unpreserved products. Consider adding about 5 drops of Germaben II to it.
The Formulator
This is the first I recall seeing a DIY formula with the addition of Germaben as a preservative. Perhaps most DIY formulae are used too quickly for oxidation to be a concern. Nevertheless, I found the suggestion to add it interesting and perhaps advisable. But I'm certainly not an expert...heck, the Obagi was my first experience with Vit C.
Definitely not thrilled with receiving an old(er) product cuz among the ingredients (Water, ascorbic acid, sodium lauryl sulfate, fragrance, sorbitol, calcium hydroxide, zinc chloride, sodium hyaluronate, phenoxyethanol, sodium bisulfite) there must be a preservative .
Just wondered if all OBagi 15% were a yellowish colour. |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:26 pm |
arya2 I am not sure here but looking at the ingredient list for the Obagi there doesn't seem to be any ingredients in the formula that should cause it to be yellow colored. So my guess is that if it is yellow it has oxidized to some degree. It is up to you whether you feel comfortable enought to use it. If it hasn't oxidized too much it might be okay but then again....Personally I would not even use the Obagi if it were clear because it has sodium lauryl sulfate and I don't feel at all comfortable using this in a leave in product!
On the issue of preservatives-they will not keep a c serum from oxidizing. They are there to prevent bacterial growth. The Obagi does have one-phenoxyethanol and this is actually a common preservative used in C serums. I don't know enough about DIY C serums to say whether a preservative would be needed or not. It might depend a great deal on how long you keep the serum before you discard. I hope someone else can offer some more insight on this though! |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:42 pm |
gracedhy: yes, I read that thread this a.m. in attempting to determine if any of the ingredients in the 15%solution would cause yellowing
TheresaL:
I searching the web re ingredients this a.m. I noted the cautionary comments re sodium lauryl sulfate but my reading was that larger quantities than might be in the 15% solution was the basis of the concern.
However, I too am not enamoured with putting that stuff on my face when there other formulae available.
Apart from making my own, I'd be interested in Candy's product but living in Cda, suspect red tape and the almighty tax wld be disincentives.
Thanks ladies for your help. |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:19 pm |
This thread is so interesting & sounds complicated to me. I always thought that Obagi is one of those top-of-the-line brands. If Vivier did not exist, I would of used Obagi. |
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:25 am |
Skincare wrote: |
This thread is so interesting & sounds complicated to me. I always thought that Obagi is one of those top-of-the-line brands. If Vivier did not exist, I would of used Obagi. |
That's the main reason I chose Obagi as my first experience with Vit C. You can imagine my disappointment upon learning of the oxidation of the product.
So far, I have nothing to compare it with - other than their 5% solution which is fine - but I'm very surprised that this particular bottle of 15% should have oxidized. Perhaps incorrectly, I have concluded that my particular bottle is very old.
The web site from which I purchased it is well established & I would think unlikely to have products in storage for so long. Or Obagi's shipment to them contained this older bottle.....who knows.
May I ask, Skincare, how much did your Vivier cost & the ingredients? I paid $81+ tax Cdn for the Obagi which was the best price (other than ebay) I could find. Now it seems anything but a good price as I'm unsure whether I should continue its use.
And you saw the concern re sodium lauryl sulfate....
Just left me with big questions re Obagi. Here in Ottawa, a medical clinic uses the line in its treatments but if Vivier's 15% serum isn't yellow & doesn't contain sls, it may be the preferrable option. |
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:48 pm |
arya2 wrote: |
Skincare wrote: |
This thread is so interesting & sounds complicated to me. I always thought that Obagi is one of those top-of-the-line brands. If Vivier did not exist, I would of used Obagi. |
That's the main reason I chose Obagi as my first experience with Vit C. You can imagine my disappointment upon learning of the oxidation of the product.
So far, I have nothing to compare it with - other than their 5% solution which is fine - but I'm very surprised that this particular bottle of 15% should have oxidized. Perhaps incorrectly, I have concluded that my particular bottle is very old.
The web site from which I purchased it is well established & I would think unlikely to have products in storage for so long. Or Obagi's shipment to them contained this older bottle.....who knows.
May I ask, Skincare, how much did your Vivier cost & the ingredients? I paid $81+ tax Cdn for the Obagi which was the best price (other than ebay) I could find. Now it seems anything but a good price as I'm unsure whether I should continue its use.
And you saw the concern re sodium lauryl sulfate....
Just left me with big questions re Obagi. Here in Ottawa, a medical clinic uses the line in its treatments but if Vivier's 15% serum isn't yellow & doesn't contain sls, it may be the preferrable option. |
Sorry, I don't have time right now to type a lot, I am on my way out the door but could not resist checking my e-mail.
It cost $80.00 if I remembered correctly. I typed up a review and with some help of others, they typed in their comments. Again, I did not know what to say but it does work for me and does not dry out my skin or cause acne/pimples.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18350&highlight=vivier |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:51 am |
[/quote]
Sorry, I don't have time right now to type a lot, I am on my way out the door but could not resist checking my e-mail.
It cost $80.00 if I remembered correctly. I typed up a review and with some help of others, they typed in their comments. Again, I did not know what to say but it does work for me and does not dry out my skin or cause acne/pimples.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18350&highlight=vivier[/quote]
Thanks so much Skincare One of the unpleasant side effects of the Obagi was that I found it significantly drying. It firmed my skin very nicely but the drying made my skin look worse.
Obagi warns of this initial effect of the products & says users must be patient & continue, saying the newer skin will reveal itself. This may well be true but dry, wrinkley skin on someone who has been combo at best all her life is a BIG UGH factor.
If Vivier isn't drying even at 20% that's all I need to hear.
Thanks again. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:05 am |
BTW - just checked Cellex-C listing % they describe the 10% solution as 'golden coloured'. Water is second on the ingredient listing after L-ascorbic acid, which makes sense if in a 10% solution.
I suppose my 15% Obagi could best be described as yellow-straw coloured and water is listed first for a greater? concentration of ascorbic acid. No mention of L-ascorbic acid. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:33 am |
i like cellex-c but it is also a little bit drying. i have to really apply moisturizer very quickly. otherwise my face is just too tight. |
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:07 am |
RE concern about Sodium lauryl sulfate - since so many on EDS' forum claimed great results from Cetaphil's
Gentle Cleanser, decided to give it a try & bought some yesterday.
Guess what is the 4th ingredient of 8? Yup...SLS. Bought it anyway since SA said she used it at suggestion of her derm who told her there is absolutely no need to spend a fortune on cleansers when this is perfectly fine. And her skin is glorious (probably one of main reasons she was hired...).
Bought it in spite of the SLS, used it last night, wow, it cleaned out my pores!!! w/out leaving my skin feeling stipped. Downside is that now pores are clean, realize how huge they are....like craters!
Anyway, just had to f-up re the SLS. And have decided will use the remaining 15% Obagi every 2nd day rather than daily since too drying for me.
Will see what that brings.
Cheers |
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:22 am |
arya2 wrote: |
RE concern about Sodium lauryl sulfate - since so many on EDS' forum claimed great results from Cetaphil's
Gentle Cleanser, decided to give it a try & bought some yesterday.
Guess what is the 4th ingredient of 8? Yup...SLS. Bought it anyway since SA said she used it at suggestion of her derm who told her there is absolutely no need to spend a fortune on cleansers when this is perfectly fine. And her skin is glorious (probably one of main reasons she was hired...).
Bought it in spite of the SLS, used it last night, wow, it cleaned out my pores!!! w/out leaving my skin feeling stipped. Downside is that now pores are clean, realize how huge they are....like craters!
Anyway, just had to f-up re the SLS. And have decided will use the remaining 15% Obagi every 2nd day rather than daily since too drying for me.
Will see what that brings.
Cheers |
What does
RE
SLS
SA
stand for?
Sorry, I did not understand your post with all those short forms lettering. |
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:59 am |
Skincare wrote: |
What does
RE
SLS
SA
stand for?
Sorry, I did not understand your post with all those short forms lettering. |
Ok, sorry
RE or re = regarding
SLS = sodium lauryl sulfate
SA = sales associate
And here I am now liberally using acronyms even tho' they confused me too when I initially joined the forum. Laughing at myself.... |
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:59 am |
arya2 wrote: |
RE concern about Sodium lauryl sulfate - since so many on EDS' forum claimed great results from Cetaphil's
Gentle Cleanser, decided to give it a try & bought some yesterday.
Guess what is the 4th ingredient of 8? Yup...SLS. Bought it anyway since SA said she used it at suggestion of her derm who told her there is absolutely no need to spend a fortune on cleansers when this is perfectly fine. And her skin is glorious (probably one of main reasons she was hired...).
Bought it in spite of the SLS, used it last night, wow, it cleaned out my pores!!! w/out leaving my skin feeling stipped. Downside is that now pores are clean, realize how huge they are....like craters!
Anyway, just had to f-up re the SLS. And have decided will use the remaining 15% Obagi every 2nd day rather than daily since too drying for me.
Will see what that brings.
Cheers |
arya2-Let me clarify my thoughts on SLS. I have used the Cetaphil and think it is a great cleanser. It does have SLS and I checked with the manufacturer and the SLS in this cleanser is less than 1%. IMO less than one percent for a product you rinse off is no big deal. The Cosmetics Ingredient Review board states that for a leave on product (Which the Cetaphil Gentle Cleanser can be used as and which the Obagi C serum is) SLS should be one percent or less. I would guess that in the Obagi serum the SLS is less than 1%. If you feel that the Obagi is not irritating your skin then maybe it is fine to use despite the SLS. My personal comfort level with SLS is that 1% is okay for a rinse off product but I don't feel comfortable with any SLS in a leave on product. Everyone can make their own decision on this though!! |
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:13 am |
TheresaL
Such good info...thanks . This is really helpful & will govern my decisions re SLS use.
What a fount of knowledge this forum has in its members...seen nothing like it elsewhere.
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:15 am |
Sorry, always thot was a big smile. Now that I've checked, see it is a razz.
Good golly, hope I haven't insulted anyone....
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Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:48 am |
arya2 wrote: |
Skincare wrote: |
What does
RE
SLS
SA
stand for?
Sorry, I did not understand your post with all those short forms lettering. |
Ok, sorry
RE or re = regarding
SLS = sodium lauryl sulfate
SA = sales associate
And here I am now liberally using acronyms even tho' they confused me too when I initially joined the forum. Laughing at myself.... |
Thank you so much....sometimes I get so confused with acronyms and generally at work it is a taboo to use acronyms. |
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