(Semi)-permanent makeup?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:14 pm Quote

Either I'm completely incompetent at searching for threads (nah -- never happen!) or the topic hasn't been covered in depth. I'f I'm wrong, just direct me and I'll slink back to my corner like a good girl and read.

Several months ago (and before I found EDS), I prepaid to have semi-permanent make-up applied to help fill in my brows a little, and upper and lower eyeliner. Some days, my touch is more sure than others when applying eyeliner. Because of hoodiness, I have less visible lid on the right eye, both upper eyelids are crepey and the left eye tends to weep completely apropos of nothing at all. Some mornings, just the prospect of having to navigate the make-up minefield and innumerable corrections and wipe-offs makes me want to say "bugger it" and go bare faced. The few times I've actually done so, however, people have asked if I was ill.

I still intend to go ahead with the brow and eyeliner procedure as the work, both original and correction of poorly executed applications by other practitioners, is beautifully done and the best I've seen. What I want to know is the REAL inside stuff. How painful is it? What's the usual healing time, if any? I've been told that the pigment will last up to three years, with a touch-up somewhere in there. Does it typically last that long? When it starts to fade, is it gradual or is it all at once? Any other information, suggestions or anything else you think would be helpful, even the common sense stuff that you assume everyone would know?

TIA.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:43 pm Quote

Pinky,
You might PM the very nice Patty and ask her some questions. She's an RN who does permanent make up. I'm sure she could answer many of your questions.

I had my lips lined approximately 10 years ago. The plan was so have the entire lip done but as it turned out I had some problems with the topical numbing agent and didn't think I could stand to do the entire lip without something to numb the area. That experience was what got me jonesing to have plumper lips. Mine looked great afterwards when they were swollen. LOL. I've had several friends have their eyebrows and eyeliner done and had no problems. They would do it again in a heartbeat. From what I understand, the lip area is the most tender.

My lip line is very natural and most people don't know I've done it. It has faded quite a bit though and I've wondered if it's my use of glycolics and such.

Let us know what you decide to do.

kimberly

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:52 pm Quote

Thank you so much, Kimberly! I especially appreciate hearing about your own experience with this, as I'm still a tiny bit anxious. Patty sounds like an excellent source; I'll contact her and see if she's up to a bit of Q&A.

Cheers!

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:39 pm Quote

I appreciate your vote of confidence my dear K. To answer your questions: Find out how long your technician has been doing permanent makeup and if she has pictures. Your brows sound like mine in that I have brows, they just needed to be filled in here and there. The brows will be the easiest procedure for your technician if you love the shape. They are also easy to numb. I am fortunate in that I have a sponsoring M.D. and my paperwork reads so that I have Dr.'s orders to give oral "relaxation" meds. My clients love it. They go to sleep and voila, it's over. In all honesty, the upper eyelid can be the most uncomfortable of all 3 procedures that can be done on the face. Not painful, just uncomfortable. You will feel the vibration of the needles going across your eyelids and this can be a wee bit nerve wracking. But you can do it!!! Just don't develop "clam" eye, where you squeeze your eyelids shut so tightly that your technician has to struggle to see the lid. The length of longevity depends on several things. Yes, glycolics can fade color. Sun exposure, smoking and if I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. You should have several years of convenience though for just a couple of days of swelling. Yes, there is a little swelling. I always tell clients that they will look as though they've had a cry for a couple of days. The brows - nobody will notice anything, but you should keep a little vaseline on them for up to 10 days. Vaseline not globbed on-just a very thin layer, same with eyelids. I tattooed eyeliner on a client Fri. and even though I told her no mascara for a week, she had it on Mon. If you can take the mascara off using 2 Qtips with your remover and wipe the length of the lashes, your liner will be fine. You just don't won't to rub your brows or your liner, just blot.
LOL!!! I think I've told you more than you wanted to know. You'll love permanent makeup. I never have to touch my eyebrows or try to apply eyeliner anymore. I've put off doing my own lips but tomorrow is the day.
If I can help you Pinky, let me know.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:48 pm Quote

I don't think you live in the states, do you?

I noticed a question I didn't answer. Fading is gradual. It is not completely painless but after the 1st pass with the needles, you should become pain free.

I know that there are people out there who don't really care about their work. I personally don't know anyone who doesn't care, but I have read horror stories. Just be careful and ask other people you know who had beautiful work done, who did their work. And when you find out, ask that technician all the questions you've asked here. The answers I gave you are universal so compare notes.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:51 pm Quote

LOL!!! One more thing. There is no such thing as semi-permanent tattooing. It is permanent.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:41 pm Quote

I got my permanent eyeliners about 1.5 yrs ago. It was absolutely painful for me. I had both lower and upper lids tattooed, and asked the lady not to make the lines too thick. I was not given any pain killers. It was so painful that when it was close to the end, she told me just a bit more. So I waited, and an eternity went by, and she was not finished. So I screamed "stop!" I couldn't handle it any more. I didn't know what possessed me to do that except the pain. Luckily she did not stab my eye with the needle. I don't think I would ever do this again.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:42 pm Quote

Patty, you could not have done a better job of addressing my concerns -- this is exactly the kind of information I wanted! I had assumed that I'd just have to wait a day after having the liner done and then, tra la, I could apply my regular eye make-up and go on about my business, stopping only to catch glimpses of my fabulous self in store windows, etc. Unless I've had first-hand experience with something, I find it really difficult to anticipate what can or will happen, and am often brought back to earth rather abruptly when reality presents itself. Now, thanks to you, I know that I may want to book a little holiday time to allow for swelling to recede and I also know more about how to keep the results I've paid for. I'll remind myself about the clam eyes. Laughing

It's a funny expression, but I often find myself clenching my fists while in the dentist's chair, so clenched eyelids is in the same neighbourhood.

Thank you for your time and generous help -- I very much appreciate it, and will report back when I have it done.

Best regards.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:17 am Quote

I had my bottom eyeliners done from a professional tattoist over 6 years ago and it still looks fab. My mum and nan have had the eyeliner, eyebrows and mum had lips also and they dont reget it

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:38 am Quote

Patty, I have a question I hope you won't mind answering. I have my eyebrows tattooed on but I want to extend the length a few more millimeters. How much of a problem would this be? I certainly wouldn't want the areas to look as if they are overlapping.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:01 am Quote

Pinky, I'm so glad I could help.
Cherisse, your technician must have been a sadist. The upper eyeliner is the only procedure that can be uncomfortable. Not painful, just uncomfortable because of the natural instinct to protect the eye.
You all need to find Pal's technician.
Angelina, it depends on how long ago you had your brows done. Have they faded? If not, your technician can easily extend. Just be sure to go back to the same technician as she will know the color she used to do them. If they've faded, then a touch-up over the whole brow with the extensions, should be fine.
Patrice, another member of this board, has been doing permanent makeup for a long, long time and I hope she will jump in here if I'm wrong about anything or she just wants to share.
I hope I've helped.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:38 am Quote

Pinky...I've had upper and lower permanent eyeliner done. I agree with Patty. It may be uncomfortable, but shouldn't be painful. I've gone back several times, because I've had her do it so lightly, she is gradually increasing the thickness. (I was very paranoid about getting a thick, artifical, heavy look.) Also, I use Retin A under my eyes, and this will surely speed up the fading process, so I know I will need touch ups every few years. I LOVE LOVE LOVE having it though...just make sure you find a really good artist.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:46 am Quote

Interesting topic.

Is there anyone here in the UK who has had this done?

How did it go?

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:28 pm Quote

I had my eyeliner done a couple months ago... I couldn't be happier. She used a topical lidocane gel to numb the area so I didn't feel al thing...

Here's the thread I started when I first had it done: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=15875

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:19 pm Quote

Your eyeliner is gorgeous!!!!

I want to let you all know that any permanent makeup procedure you have done can be considered an enhancement. It's always there in the background. In other words, if you want to wear a blue eyeliner, you can. You just use your own eyeliner over the permanent. Same thing with lip colors and brows. I don't know how much you'd want to change your brow color though. But anyway, permanent makeup does not have to be painful at all. If that's what is stopping you from getting this done, don't let it. Just do your homework and find the best tech in your city/town and then look for references. I use a state of the art computerized tattoo machine and I love it. No danger of backflow of body fluids and completely safe. The only downside is that there is always a risk for an allergic reaction. I think the statistics say 1:250,000 but there are docs who can treat problems.

Can you tell I'm passionate about this stuff? LOL!!!

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:23 pm Quote

Thanks Patty! The lady I went to did REALLY well. It's so incredibly straight and even... I'm very happy with it.

I had her do just thick enough so I can tell it's there, but thin enough that it disappears when I want it to... If I put mascara on it doesn't even look like it's there. It disappears into the mascara and it looks like I just have a very dense lash line. (I don't have any mascara on in that photo).... And when I want to go dark, black and dramatic I can easily put my regular pencil eyeliner on over it!

I'd just make sure the person that is doing it comes highly recommended and has many satisfied customers... I've seen some pretty bad tattoos out there.... If anyone is in the greater Milwaukee, WI area and wants this done I'd be happy to send them Lynn's info.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:04 pm Quote

Oh yes. I've heard of Lynn. She's been doing this for a long time and has a wonderful reputation.

Did you know that she probably did a lash enhancement with the eyeliner on top also? That means she put the eyeliner through your lashes and that's why your lashes look dense.

Before I had permanent eyeliner, brows and lips, if I caught a glance of myself in a mirror without makeup, I shuddered. I hate to admit I'm vain, but there was no way I would ever answer the door without at least having my eyeliner on. I have very light brown lashes and all my features, as I've gotten older, just blend into a blank slate. UGH!!! Just plain old put a bag over her head UGLY!
LOL!!! It is what it was. I thank the good Lord for my health, my eyesight, my teeth, etc.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:23 pm Quote

You guys are good -- I knew I asked the right people! Thank you all for the great information and for sharing your experiences.

Knowledge is definitely power. Very Happy

enjoys freebies · Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:13 pm Quote

Thank you very much for your answer Patty Smile

I'm happy now.

enjoys freebies · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:10 am Quote

pinky I had to jump in. I did not want to read Patty's reply because after I post my input I will read to see how much we agree. I've been doin PM for 11 years. First of all no such thing as semi-permanent makeup. It will always be there, not the intensity as when you first had it done, but it will be there. I got into PM after having a horrible brow and liner done in Hawaii with no anesthetic and ended up looking like a hooker. Very painful. Much money was spent in attempting to correct this. But as a former makeup artist I figured I could do better than that and so went for training.

I use various topicals dependent upon the integrity of the client's skin. I do not put a needle into them until they know exactly how it is going to look after i have drawn on a brow or liner or lip according to the face structure. (I prefer hairstroke effect if conducive to client's look). And they alone agree on the final look and they have a mirror with them all the time to check on progress. Pics taken B/A. Med hx taken. Discomfort level is graded on a scale of 10 being the most discomfort. If they give a 4 or above then more topical. I generally get a 2 or 3.
All my procedures take two visits.. I want to see what they come back with on second visit. Important to not overwork skin. If some want it done in one visit, I refer them to a tattoo artist up the street. Also, Check their credentials and make sure they are up to date. Look at their portfolio and ask if it is their work. Many purchase portfolios of others work. Make sure their license is displayed, place is clean and check how they are dressed as well. Certain ethnic groups are more dramatic than others so if you are conservative make sure that it is understood you are only seeking enhancement. the girl who originally did me was dark-skinned, hawaiian ancestry and could not comprehend the conservative look of a very pale, northeastern mainland woman who only wanted a bit of enhancement. I got drama big time. Depending on aftercare and the individual's physiological makeup and lifestyle will also depend on how long she should wait before a retouch. My lips are going on 10 years and I just retouched them. Eyes were never done again...brows, another story. Now I'll go check and see what patty said and see if we are on the same page.

enjoys freebies · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:22 am Quote

hey patty how did you know I did PM?? Anyway I concur with everything you said. After my experience I swore my clients would never suffer. And I've even had two clients (mind you only two out of quite a few), fall asleep while I was doing liner. My opinion is the lips are the most uncomfortable and require antiherpes meds before plus some other pre-procedure steps I require plus it takes me 3 visits for lips as the tissue there is of course different. But patty said it all, if done right, it should not be painful 90% of the time, but discomforting. There are some who are extremely sensitive and they have to be dealt with accordingly. But to awaken in the morning looking fresh and colorful is a joy. All I wear for makeup is a good moisturizer, little mineral makeup on the chin and nose and blush. AND,... as soon as revitalash makes my lashes lush i will resort to a lash curler. Am awaiting its arrival.

OH i forget who it was that inquired about a brow extension, that should be no problem for a good practitioner, it certainly is possible to do.

enjoys freebies · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:23 am Quote

hey patty how did you know I did PM?? Anyway I concur with everything you said. After my experience I swore my clients would never suffer. And I've even had two clients (mind you only two out of quite a few), fall asleep while I was doing liner. My opinion is the lips are the most uncomfortable and require antiherpes meds before plus some other pre-procedure steps I require plus it takes me 3 visits for lips as the tissue there is of course different. But patty said it all, if done right, it should not be painful 90% of the time, but discomforting. There are some who are extremely sensitive and they have to be dealt with accordingly. But to awaken in the morning looking fresh and colorful is a joy. All I wear for makeup is a good moisturizer, little mineral makeup on the chin and nose and blush. AND,... as soon as revitalash makes my lashes lush i will resort to a lash curler. Am awaiting its arrival.

OH i forget who it was that inquired about a brow extension, that should be no problem for a good practitioner, it certainly is possible to do.

enjoys freebies · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:27 am Quote

i'm sorry for the repeat. i've done that a few times and will have to be more careful about hitting the submit button...one time only, one time only....

enjoys freebies · Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:37 am Quote

I was wondering if anyone can tell me if it would be a great inconvenience for permanent makeup artist to do a house call. I would pay them for the extra cost incurred but I was wondering if that would mean they have to lug around tons of supplies or would it all fit nicely into a backpack? I was also hoping if someone knows whether permanent lip makeup looks like the person has lipstick on or is it more of a painted on look? Thanks gals.

enjoys freebies · Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:25 pm Quote

angelina wrote:

I was wondering if anyone can tell me if it would be a great inconvenience for permanent makeup artist to do a house call. I would pay them for the extra cost incurred but I was wondering if that would mean they have to lug around tons of supplies or would it all fit nicely into a backpack? I was also hoping if someone knows whether permanent lip makeup looks like the person has lipstick on or is it more of a painted on look? Thanks gals.

angelina before someone would have to make housecalls, they would need to check their state regs and see if they are licensed to roam. Don't know what state you are in but if you check with SPCP.org they could help you out. The equipment is not bulky but there are certain sanitation guidelines which have to be dealt with and in someone's home there may be some question. They most certainly would have to bring a massage table or somethin comparable. The equipment is not bulky if they do it by hand, or have a digital machine, but again sanitation is the key and not sure in your state how that is regulared. But with SPCP.org you could find out what tech is in your area who is registered with SPCP (and that should be an important criteria, that the tech be listed). Then call that tech and see what he/she is capable of doing. BUT, again I stress check them out thoroughly!!! hope this helps.
Re your other ?.... PM should not look fake at all if done right. If you want it to look like baby lips, then that is how it should like, with slight color. But it will probably take 2 or more visits. So check out techs in your area who have websites and look at their work. They shd have published photos of B/A.

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