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Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:09 am  |
Speaking from personal experience, I think relationships are like sick jokes- I can't describe it any better... At first, both parties are at their best. I know serious meaningful relationships take work but in the end it seems like the guys always end up lusting after someone else. Most women do so many things and spend so much money to make themselves pretty and desirable, myself included so it hurts when they lust after others. I know it's natural blah blah blah but I can't help thinking that if I didn't let my guard down and like them back, that they would still lust after me the most. I think its a sick joke because I don't see guys ever wanting their girlfriends or wives more than a fantasy girl they can't have (until they lucked out and got the fantasy girl which they will tire of in time anyway)
Many ladies are ignorant about how their S.Os behave when they are not around and I think most don't want to know. I don't know if I'm so much jaded as I am wise to what goes on in real life. I understand that men won't always act on their desires but I really wish men wouldn't even desire others if they are in a relationship. It's late and I didn't have enough sleep so I apologize if I'm being pedantic. I am naturally a very giving and kind person but I hold back alot when I have the discipline to remember "what guys are really like." The sad thing is that guys find the mean me more elusive and try harder to win me. Deep down I think I just want what all girls want- I want someone to love me the most, and never even want anyone else forever! Maybe I"m being immature but I can't seem to get over the irony of it all. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:36 am |
| angelina wrote: |
| ... I think its a sick joke because I don't see guys ever wanting their girlfriends or wives more than a fantasy girl they can't have (until they lucked out and got the fantasy girl which they will tire of in time anyway)... |
My best friend and I were watching TV over the weekend and a commercial came on featuring Carmen Electra. I remarked that she is really such a pretty girl, that I could not believe how sincere and meaningful the exchange of wedding vows between her and Dave Navarro seemed, and that they are now divorced after so short a period of time! My friend reminded me: "I don't care how gorgeous she is, somewhere there is some guy looking at his watch and realizing her time with him is up!"
I don't get it either - I know its a "guy thing" - I have a degree in Anthropology and know all about the scientific/evolutionary reasons behind the way men act, but it still dismays me when I see men act like pigs. And it doesn't matter who you are (how rich, how thin, how gorgeous, how popular) - look at Halle Berry, Nicole Kidman, Sienna Miller, and yes, even Jennifer Aniston. I'm beginning to think its a fairly rare thing to find a truly faithful man! |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:20 am |
| If you look at statistics of infidelity, you'll see women are having just as hard a time being faithful. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:26 pm |
Angelina, the fact is, the fantasy person we will never have is always, always more tantalizing than the flesh & blood person we DO have. (I mean 'we' as both men and women.) Real people have flaws, opinions, desires, needs in relationships; those fantasies don't have any of those. I used to work for a biology professor who truly believed that "women are the flowers, and men are the bees," that men's most basic biological drive was to 'pollinate' as many 'flowers' as possible. His scientific opinion was that men are not wired to be with just one woman. In lieu of doing that, they can't help looking, desiring, fantasizing elsewhere. Many women do, as well.
Historically the idea of lifelong monogamy is a fairly recent concept that came along with romantic love being the basis for marriage, instead of practicality, procreativity, or economic advantage, where it originated. Yes I know it's against the moral values of the major world religions, but in reality monogamy was given lip service, and not much more attention than that.
It seems the result of some combination of the grass-is-always-greener elsewhere, an unavoidable sense of sameness that comes with any relationship longer than two years in duration, and that men, in particular, are more intrigued by a new girl than one they know. I don't know why, but even the most devoted husband who is physically faithful (i.e., mine) who loves his wife (yes, he does) and thinks she's hot (yes he does) still looks at other women (yes, he does). If he swore he never did, I wouldn't believe him anyway. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm |
My first marriage only lasted 3 1/2 years. Tried to do everything right -- look good, take great care of him, be understanding & sweet, yada yada. He left me for someone else who was an absolute harridan.
I decided not to do that again IF I ever remarried. Well, I did remarry. Do you have any idea what hard work it is to be a total B*TCH for 26 years? It's MAJOR work. Now, I'm not the one trying so hard to please ALL the time. I'm sweet and very appreciative often enough to make him think he's doing something right. But, when I'm not sweet, I'm horrible.  But, for some reason he always describes me as "sweet".
Why? 'cause it's just a fact that men always want what they don't have or aren't sure of.
Sounds jaded (just like angelina), I know. And, I also know this may offend someone. But, keep in mind that I wasn't born this way and my primary example, my mother, wasn't that way, either. Bitter experience and observation both taught me this. BIG sighhhhhhh.
Ari |
_________________
Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "Oh Crap, She's up!" Unknown |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:29 pm |
I find that men try harder in the begining or before the begining of the relationship, once they feel the woman gets emotionally involved enough, then they get lazy and leave all the work to the women; whereas women are the opposite, once they are in, they try harder and harder to please their men and attempt to make the relationship last or hope for more romance, this is just fact of life. It's sad, but if we pay more attention and be fair to ourselves, at least we wouldn't get hurt too easily.
Don't know about you girls, but I find my biggest mistake is to EXPECT others to act like me, which will not do me any good.
I am not born this way either, I love to give, and passion is the juice of my life, but I learnt to RESERVE.
D |
_________________
Normal/Combo, prone to freckles, dry cheeks sometimes. Early 30s. React to products FAST. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:42 pm |
| UUuuuugggggg!! Ok, now I'm depressed. It's all so sad but does somehow ring true. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:01 pm |
| diderot wrote: |
I find that men try harder in the begining or before the begining of the relationship, once they feel the woman gets emotionally involved enough, then they get lazy and leave all the work to the women; whereas women are the opposite, once they are in, they try harder and harder to please their men and attempt to make the relationship last or hope for more romance, this is just fact of life. It's sad, but if we pay more attention and be fair to ourselves, at least we wouldn't get hurt too easily.
Don't know about you girls, but I find my biggest mistake is to EXPECT others to act like me, which will not do me any good.
I am not born this way either, I love to give, and passion is the juice of my life, but I learnt to RESERVE.
D |
Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what Im dealing with right now, learning to take care of yourself is harder than you think... |
_________________
27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:05 pm |
| Arielle wrote: |
My first marriage only lasted 3 1/2 years. Tried to do everything right -- look good, take great care of him, be understanding & sweet, yada yada. He left me for someone else who was an absolute harridan.
I decided not to do that again IF I ever remarried. Well, I did remarry. Do you have any idea what hard work it is to be a total B*TCH for 26 years? It's MAJOR work. Now, I'm not the one trying so hard to please ALL the time. I'm sweet and very appreciative often enough to make him think he's doing something right. But, when I'm not sweet, I'm horrible. But, for some reason he always describes me as "sweet".
Why? 'cause it's just a fact that men always want what they don't have or aren't sure of.
Sounds jaded (just like angelina), I know. And, I also know this may offend someone. But, keep in mind that I wasn't born this way and my primary example, my mother, wasn't that way, either. Bitter experience and observation both taught me this. BIG sighhhhhhh.
Ari |
I want to be a B**CH too! I've read the book and yes, it does seem like hard work. The nice girl in me keeps coming up and getting me in trouble. |
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:04 pm |
I was like most little girls. I got all excited whenever I saw a bride. They were so beautiful and I always wanted to become one until my twenties. Now when I see people getting married, I just think it's a waste of money because I just wonder how long is it until they get divorced.
I don't want a man not to cheat on me just because he lacks opportunity. While I imagine a number of men would not seek to cheat if they're in a relationship, how many of them would jump at the chance if they were seduced?
I apologize in advance for offending anyone but I think 99.9% look at internet pXrn on a regular basis. I understand that to a certain degree but then I wonder how many guys out there are thinking of other girls while they are having sex with their partner. If that's the case, I would be really upset because I don't want to be just a glory hole. It's also really really annoying when they take way too long from masturbating too much.
It's hard to please men because whatever you are to them, they also crave the opposite. They like the innocent "good girl" and the whore at the same time. I too have found that I have to make a concious effort to bitch it up. It bothers me at times because I feel like I'm being a mean person. I'm become better and better at it too. One book that makes me feel a little better and more empowered is The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Seduction-Robert-Greene/dp/0142001198
It's not a cheesy seduction book but discusses the psychology behind seduction and helps us understand why people fall for each other. I figure if I could employ some of the knowledge, things may be a little easier for me...although it seems inevitable that all relationships end up like being a brother/sister relationship or just plain bad in the long run. I'm wondering if some people who have been married for a long time just don't care anymore and hope their husbands are cheating so they get left alone.
Oh, this really is a rather depressing topic and makes me really wonder what the point of relationships are if everyone ends up lying and or cheating in the long run. Thank you so much for posting girls. Sometimes I
really feel like I'm the only one who thinks such bad thoughts. |
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:38 am |
| Arielle wrote: |
| ... it's just a fact that men always want what they don't have or aren't sure of. |
| diderot wrote: |
| I find that men try harder in the begining or before the begining of the relationship, once they feel the woman gets emotionally involved enough, then they get lazy and leave all the work to the women; whereas women are the opposite, once they are in, they try harder and harder to please their men and attempt to make the relationship last or hope for more romance, this is just fact of life. ... |
| angelina wrote: |
... It's hard to please men because whatever you are to them, they also crave the opposite. ... I too have found that I have to make a concious effort to bitch it up. ... One book that makes me feel a little better and more empowered is The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Seduction-Robert-Greene/dp/0142001198
... makes me really wonder what the point of relationships are if everyone ends up lying and or cheating in the long run. ... |
Angelina, I found it uncanny that the cover of the book you discussed has a large, pink surfboard on it, because after reading your post, Diderot's and Ari's, I felt compelled to chime in with an example of a friend of mine, who just happens to be a competitive surfer (he also has a "real job").
Ari's comment was right on target - I've seen it with my own two eyes as an observer AND an involved party. As far as observing this behavior, I'll use the example of my friend the surfer. This guy is a lawyer in his "real job;" his father and both his brothers are doctors, so this is an educated, intelligent man I am speaking of, who comes from an educated and intelligent family. He is a very well-rounded and saavy man. But he is just a typical man, especially in his relationships.
He had a girlfriend for about 2-1/2 to 3 years or so (whom I knew and was a friend of mine), who was really beautiful, thin with a cute figure and quite a bit younger than him, though not the sharpest tool in the shed. She seemed like a nice girl, but was a total psycho-b!itch at times in their relationship. She came from a pretty messed up family and all 5 of her sisters were pretty messed up as well. She was in her early 20s but had already been divorced from the guy who accidentally got her pregnant while she was at a Christian college, and was a single mom with a young daughter (who is on the road to being as equally messed up, if not moreso, than her mom). My friend totally accepted this girl's daugther and just loved the child like she was his own - he would've made an exceptional father to her, far better than her real dad.
This girl was always looking at other guys and had a major crush on a pro surfer (someone she was never going to be able to date) that she told my friend all about, and then would castigate him if he told her it bothered him. However, if he so much as breathed in another woman's direction, this girl came totally unhinged. She was jealous, insecure, and really a few bricks shy of a full load. To top things off, my friend told me she was frigid as well - a real sexual dud in the sack. What a gal!
Long story short, she alternated quite frequently between being a sweet, loving girl and a ruthless shrew. This poor guy was just spun into confusion. She would cause stupid fights with him and then use that as an excuse to date other men (who were always losers or players, too). She actually accidentally got pregnant (again! and remember, she's a "good Christian" girl!) by another man while she was dating my friend! Get this: he told her he'd raise the child as his own if she wanted, this from a man who doesn't take one iota of crap off anyone. He was totally p@$$y whipped by this frigid harpy of a girl! It was sad. Their relationship came to a screeching halt when he got frustrated and called her a "b!tch" one day. Can you believe it? She used that as her excuse to totally dump him!
Next, he meets a lovely girl who is everything the other one is not, with the exception that she too is beautiful, thin with a darling figure, and young (the exact same age as the other girl). She is thoughtful, kind, educated, smart, cool, calm and collected and more than willing to please my friend - in short, she's normal!
The former girlfriend found out about this relationship and tried to sabotage it (even though she was already in a new relationship herself) because she's just such a nice girl. She didn't want my friend, but didn't want anyone else to have him either. She was always calling my friend and basically made herself part of his life even though he moved on. Typical stupid stuff. I told him that if he messed things up with the new girl because of the former psycho-b!tch, that I'd beat the crap out of him!
Long story short, my friend confided in me one day that even though he knew the former girlfriend was a horrible person, he just didn't feel the same level of attraction to the new girlfriend as he did the former one! We are quite close and he told me that the new girlfriend is more than willing to please him in every way, including being an adventurous lover, but he just didn't lust after her the way he did the other one. I told him point-blank that he was being a stupid jerk and it all boiled down to one thing: that he'd never really been able to "bag" the other girl. He thought I meant "have sex with" and told me I was wrong, but I said "No, you were never able to be absolutely sure she was yours. There was a reason why she kept you so spun off balance - she was a really messed up person with a ton of character flaws that she didn't want you to see. If she kept you in a state of constant pursuit, she'd be able to totally skate over the fact that she's a horrible mother and a terrible person with no heart and no soul." And that, dear friends, was the absolute truth and he admitted it! It was the chase that kept him going.
Today, he and the new girlfriend are living together and have a brand-new baby girl of their own. They will be getting married soon. I reminded him again the other day that he better not f&@k this up, and that his life today is so much better than it has been in years and he agreed with me totally.
As an involved party, I will say only this (because this post is getting REALLY too long) - when I was with the man who I thought was the love of my life (but who actually was the male version of my friend's former girlfriend!), I realized in retrospect that I was only truly happy during the first 4 months of our 3-1/2 year relationship! I really loved this guy, but it was the typical story - every time I gave, he took and then treated me like crap. The only time the relationship was going "well" was when I was so disgusted that I was ready to dump him, which he would sense and then immediately resort to his best behavior. I got so sick of the rollercoaster ride that I stepped off permanently and dumped the jerk, as I could not see spending the rest of my life running in circles with this idiot. Of course, he pulled out all the stops and was in hot-puruit overload, when I in fact had already moved on to a new and MUCH MUCH better man. I told my ex everything one day, how I felt about his behavior and how he ruined everything and that I would NEVER go back to him even if he was the last man on the planet. It was a very bitter pill for him to swallow and he never really got over it, but in the end his entire state of unhappiness was brought on totally and completely by his own unrealistic expectations and the fact that he was one of those guys who could not be truly happy in a real, intimate relationship - he just had to have what he wasn't sure could be his! |
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:23 am |
Prime example of why I cant stand 99.9% of guys.
I can believe they actually think this is true.
*WARNING* Dont click the link if you are easily offended.
http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html |
_________________
27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:32 am |
Very Interesting indeed....
D |
_________________
Normal/Combo, prone to freckles, dry cheeks sometimes. Early 30s. React to products FAST. |
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