Just say NO to Pantene!!!
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Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:09 am

I loooove pantene, wow I am really surprised and *sigh* I'll try a new shampoo, any healthy alternatives?

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:23 am

Good to know, especially if people are experiencing problems. I have been using pantene for about 5 years now, and I have no problems. My hair is shinny and thick. My hair grows about 4 inches every 6 months. Works for me, but always love reading the warnings here, just in case I was having a problem.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:23 am

Funny just yesterday I got my daughters hair cut and the hair dresser said the same thing. NO Pantene!!

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:27 am

Sportygirl,

Thanks for your helpful information. As you seem to be pretty informed on the topic, I was curious to know that as hair does not contain any living cells that can be nourished, is everything we put on our hair basically just coating it?

Thanks,
Mammamia

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:45 am

Many oils have been proven to penetrate the hair shaft. TRI/Princeton testing labs did some work on the diffusion of oils into the hair shaft using Time-Of-Flight Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry. They presented the findings at the 2004 IFSCC conference in Orlando, and I went to the presentation.

Bottom line is this:
Olive Oil had complete diffusion into hair.
Avocado Oil had complete diffusion into hair.
Meadowfoam Seed Oil had only peripheral diffision.
Sunflower Seed Oil had no diffision into hair.
Jojoba Oil had no diffision into hair.

Now, having no diffusion is not necessarily bad. Being on the surface can still achieve a smoothing effect and a slippery comb through of the hair. If the oil does diffuse into the hair shaft it can make the hair smoother too.

Build up on the hair is not desirable however.

John

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:52 am

Thank you John for such a prompt response...and an informative one too.

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:58 am

Hi all. No disrespect meant, but I'm married to a scientist. He's changed my way of thinking about product claims/rumours. Where are the scientific studies proving such a claim? I just can't imagine if the claims were true, that Pantene would be out of business either by the Better Business Bureau or the FDA. I love EDS, but think it's important to back up harsh claims with scientific studies.

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:13 pm

Mammamia wrote:

Sportygirl,

Thanks for your helpful information. As you seem to be pretty informed on the topic, I was curious to know that as hair does not contain any living cells that can be nourished, is everything we put on our hair basically just coating it?

Thanks,
Mammamia

Not so informed, just looked up the information (after John's post) about panthenol on a website that gives meanings and uses of certain ingredients. I do know however, that hair is alive at the root, and the rest is basically "dead", much like finger or toenails, which is why they don't hurt when you cut them. At least that's what I've always read. It just kind of makes sense to me that coating the hair, esp. at the roots with heavy or sticky substances wouldn't be all that good for it. JMHO Smile

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:43 pm

Well I know that Pantene has a lot of cones and other ingredients in it that pretty much 'suffocates' the hair, it coats it and gives one the illusion of shine and healthy hair. When buying any hair product one should look on the ingredients list and just make sure of it.

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:51 pm

Thanks goodness for all of the posts. I thought it was just me having problems with Pantene. My scalp got so itchy, it hurt. Now I use Bumble & Bumble which I get from my stylist. (Hopefully B&B doesn't have a bad rep.)

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:12 pm

Racecargirl wrote:

Thanks goodness for all of the posts. I thought it was just me having problems with Pantene. My scalp got so itchy, it hurt. Now I use Bumble & Bumble which I get from my stylist. (Hopefully B&B doesn't have a bad rep.)

Sorry, Racecargirl,
Many professional hair stylists (some of whom used to work for B+B) informed me a while back that B+B just dries out your hair progessively... I stopped using it about 6 years ago... My little sis owns a salon that sells it and when I told her what the stylists told me, she thought about it for a while and came back to me and said, "you know, you're right about B+B!" Now she is selling Logics as well, and she says it is the best haircare line she's used since Kerastase.

--avalange

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:15 pm

I agree with c4ward. I don't use Pantene but I'd be surprised if there weren't salon brands that do the same thing. And anyway, I've yet to leave a salon without getting asked if I need any products. It may be in their interest to spread rumors like this, no???

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:25 pm

c4ward wrote:

Hi all. No disrespect meant, but I'm married to a scientist. He's changed my way of thinking about product claims/rumours. Where are the scientific studies proving such a claim? I just can't imagine if the claims were true, that Pantene would be out of business either by the Better Business Bureau or the FDA. I love EDS, but think it's important to back up harsh claims with scientific studies.

Hi c4ward - no disrespect to you either Laughing

but the FDA can't always be depended on. Although reputable companies can prove everything they say about their products, that "proof" may be based on esoteric scientific tests that don't directly relate to anything you perceive when you buy their product.
They could be testing their hair products on goat hair. If they've done their testing on hair (any hair) that's good enough for the FDA, as long as their product does not directly say "works on human hair". I have yet to see a bottle of shampoo with this particular claim on it.
The FDA states that as long as the products claims are based on scientific testing, there is nothing wrong with using creative language or marketing practices.
This may not be illegal or fraudulant, but I believe it is clearly deceptive!
So, although most hair and skin care companies are within their legal limits as far as marketing goes, they are not required to back up what they say if they're creative enough, and make no direct claims about any particular thing.

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:25 pm

I think the point that has been made is that panthenol is not doing any harm but it does coat the hair shaft.
I don't want to use a product that coats my hair and yes, I can usually tell the difference between whether it is coated or not.
I am glad that Sportygirl and John C Hill posted the info as now I know what I do and don't want in my hair products and I won't waste money buying them and then throwing them out after one or two uses.

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:23 pm

About 14 years ago, my hair started falling out after I used Pantene. It stopped after I switched. I agree to just say no to Pantene.

free skin care · Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:33 pm

Like C4ward's husband I am also a Scientist and I completely agree with him.

I think as with all products either something works for you or it doesn't. Just becuase this shampoo does not work on some people it does not mean that it doesn't work on everyone. I love Pantene, I have tried numerous other brands and nothing makes my hair look better than Pantene.

For those of you who want to know, here is a little information on how the FDA is involved with bodycare and cosmetic products:

Bodycare and cosmetic products are not considered medicines and are therefore not subject to FDA approval, nor does the FDA try to regulate the body care industry.

However, the FDA classifies cosmetic ingredients according to their degree of toxicity and prohibits the use of certain ingredients proven to be unsafe for use on humans such as certain colorants and some prohibited or restricted ingredients (such as hexachlorophene, mercury compounds, and chloroform).

Bodycare product manufacturers, on their own responsibility, use any raw material as a cosmetic ingredient and market the product. The FDA will only investigate a product and possibly pull it off the shelf if extensive mass consumer complaints and lengthy accumulations of evidence point to its harmfulness- even a "natural" product.

Cosmetics makers must put a warning statement on the front labels of products that have not been safety testing, which reads, "WARNING―The safety of this product has not been determined."

FDA does require safety testing for color additives used in cosmetics. Cosmetics may only contain approved and certified colors.

There are so many other products out there like skin creams and makeup that irratate one person and not another- the same is true for shampoo. I think labelling one shampoo as "horrific for hair" is a bit harsh and like someone posted earlier it may just be that so many hairdressers are used to hearing this from their co-workers or instructors that they automatically say this to everyone. I mean have any of these hairdressers done a scientific study on Pantene in comparison to other shampoos?

Its just like a story I head once before:

Betty always cuts the end off her roast before putting it into the pan to cook. Her daughter asks- mom why do you do that? Betty says- I don't know, my mom always did. So Betty calls up her mom and asks- mom why did you always cut the end off of the roast before you cooked it? Her mother answers- cuz my pan was never big enough to cook the whole thing!

Or that urband legend about Red Earth Lipstick and lead poisoning??

I think too many hairdressers have heard that "Pantene is bad" and really have no "scientific evidence" to back up their claims.

I was thinking about switching to a salon brand product, but if Pantene works so well for me- why should I?
Its a personal preference for what you want to use. Somethings are good for some and not for others.

Sorry for the long post Wink

free skin care · Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:36 pm

Wow, maybe this is why my hair is a mess.

free skin care · Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:38 pm

i was gonna buy but now l change my mind.

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:33 am

I used Pantene twice and didnt find my hair any better so I changed to another brand, luckily Smile

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:40 am

many famous beautiful female stars shown for pantene in my country.
they are all charming and attractive,but not the product

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:17 am

Hi - As I mentioned I'm not pro or against Pantene. However, I've been doing a little research and if the offending ingredient is Panthenol, it looks like this is an ingredient in about 50% of all shampoos and in the majority of conditioners...Salon or Drugstore quality alike. Maybe Pantene is getting a bad rap when other shampoos contain the same ingredients.

So, I understand that this ingredient is good for living cells but I guess I'm curious as to why this ingredient is in so many hair care products if it does harm to the hair...or does it do any harm at all? Confused

Can anyone please help clear up my confusion? Thank you!

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:57 pm

I appreciate your post Canadian Girl!

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:05 pm

heard the Pantene rumors recently:

Dear Paula,
I am a hairstylist. I am amazed at how my fellow stylists and clients believe what the hair-care companies tell us. I really love your book and it has really helped me to make better recommendations to my clients, not to mention better choices for my own hair. One question that keeps coming up is about Pantene. Everyone says it is so bad for your hair. When I was in beauty school, if a customer used Pantene, we were not supposed to color or perm their hair until they had used a clarifying shampoo instead for at least two weeks! Supposedly Pantene leaves behind a lot of buildup that will ruin your hair with repeated use. But doesnâ€™t Pantene contain the same ingredients as many other brands which can also cause buildup? Do you know why it has such a bad rap? I have several customers with thick, dry hair who want to grow their hair long, and I thought Pantene Relaxed and Natural shampoo and conditioner (which you review favorably in your book) would be good inexpensive choices, but others say I am crazy. Please help!

Rebecca, via email

Dear Rebecca,
Whether it's from reading my book or not, thank you for being one of the few professionals in the beauty industry to question the overblown claims made by almost every hair-care company. I have heard various horror stories about Pantene products over the years, but have never seen evidence of the damage, nor has anyone been able to explain exactly what these â€œterribleâ€ products contain that supposedly ruins hair. There is absolutely nothing in Panteneâ€™s products that requires removal before you perm or color your hair.

Pantene was originally created in Europe in 1947, and was acquired by Procter & Gamble from Richardson-Vicks in 1985. Ten years later, it was the best-selling hair-care brand in the world, and it remains a top performer in all markets (Source:www.pg.com). Of course, a hair-care productâ€™s popularity does not guarantee that it has a great formula, but if it caused the tragic consequences hairdressers attribute to it, it would have left store shelves a long time ago.

I think that at least part of this myth got started because Pantene's shampoos contain a minute amount of the potent solvent ammonium xylenesulfonate. With repeated use, this ingredient can cause hair dryness and scalp irritation. However, it does not build up on hair in any way, so even if it might be drying, it doesnâ€™t interfere with hair dye or perms. Keep in mind that plenty of salon brands contain ingredients that can be more problematic for hair and scalp than ammonium xylenesulfonate, including sodium lauryl sulfate, TEA-lauryl sulfate, menthol, and peppermint oil. But if your clients are concerned, go ahead and advise them to avoid Panteneâ€™s shampoos, just let them know there are plenty of well-formulated options at the drugstore other than Pantene that mimic or outshine the salon brands.

Where Pantene really excels is in its conditioners, including those in the Relaxed & Natural line you mentioned. They are all excellent, affordable products that do not contain any ingredients capable of damaging hair or altering the outcome of a chemical service. The ingredients in these conditioners can build up with repeated useâ€”but, as you mentioned, so can the same ingredients that are used in most salon brands. Silicone in some form is present in almost every conditioner sold, regardless of price. In fact, silicone technology as a way to condition hair was invented by Procter & Gamble, and is now used in 80% of all hair-care products.

I believe that visiting a talented hair stylist is vital to the appearance of your hair, and that usually means going to higher-end salons where they have their own ongoing training programs and their own standards of excellence. But that also means you are likely to get a persuasive sales pitch to buy the more expensive products. I have a technique that can help reduce the pressure. When you are asked what products you are using, simply state you are using whatever products the salon sells. You wonâ

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:11 pm

ww.makeup411.net/showthread.php?t=2034

Here's the web page to check it out yourselves. Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:16 pm

c4ward wrote:

Hi all. No disrespect meant, but I'm married to a scientist. He's changed my way of thinking about product claims/rumours. Where are the scientific studies proving such a claim? I just can't imagine if the claims were true, that Pantene would be out of business either by the Better Business Bureau or the FDA. I love EDS, but think it's important to back up harsh claims with scientific studies.

Several years ago, I went in to get my hair colored at an upscale salon in the city I used to live in. I'd been there several times, always with the same stylist, and gotten great highlights every time, and I liked that they never pressured me to buy products. This time, when the stylist was done both she and I noticed that the highlights were much less dramatic than usual - in fact, you could barely notice them. She asked if I had switched shampoos and started using Pantene - which I had about a month earlier - and explained that it coats the hair shaft and can prevent color from penetrating.

Soooo...while I can't "prove" that the results were due to the Pantene (suppose it could have been a mistake by the stylist, though I think that's unlikely), I stopped with the Pantene immediately, and I've never had that happen before or since, and I've been highlighting my hair for 15 years.

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