Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (naturally derived from coconut oil)??
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free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:33 pm

Can SLS be natural? I thought we should ban all SLS in shampoo. Any thought on this?

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:44 pm

It doesn't make sense that it's supposed to be naturally derived from coconut and yet it's a poison?!

Here's a good article on SLS

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/sodium-lauryl-sulfate.html

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:44 pm

SLS is a chemical. It is chemically derived from lauric acid. Coconut oil is very high in lauric acid so it wouldn't surprise me that they use coconut oil to make this stuff.

It is up to the individual whether they want to use a shampoo with SLS or not. Personally I don't care if my shampoo has a little SLS as long as the shampoo is gentle. The shampoo I use now supposedly has some SLS (I have no clue because the ingredient list is in Japanese) but it is super gentle even on my colored hair so it doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is when "natural" companies feel the need to say coconut derived when they describe the SLS in their product. It is a bunch of marketing nonsense designed to imply that this stuff is not a chemical! Wink

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:48 pm

TheresaL wrote:

What does bother me is when "natural" companies feel the need to say coconut derived when they describe the SLS in their product. It is a bunch of marketing nonsense designed to imply that this stuff is not a chemical! Wink

Sounds like when Ketsugo said one of their ingredients was a 'marine organism' when it was actually shark liver oil!

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:07 pm

I agree that it's a marketing gimmick, to make consumers think that the coconut derived SLS is somehow more natural than other SLS. I avoid SLS in hair products because IME it dries out my hair. Regardless of what "natural source" might be listed in parenthesis after it on the label.

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:39 pm

SLS is also used in engine degreasers and commercial car washes according to this:
https://www.kathlina.com/Articles.asp?ID=134

Makes you wonder what you are putting in your hair. Shock

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:12 pm

I just received my Jason shampoo which says "no laureth sulfates" but they have this:

Sodium Lauroamphoacetate
Sodium Myreth Sulfate
Diazolidinyl Urea
and
the 2nd to last listed ingredient: Dimethicone

Are those two sodium ingredients supposed to be a more gentle cleansing agent, or just as bad as SLS?

Is Urea not something one should avoid?

If they have dimethicone as one of the very last ingredients, does that mean there's not much of it in the shampoo?

I'm still trying to learn how to read a label. Thank you for your help.

free skin care · Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:18 pm

Cherisse wrote:

I just received my Jason shampoo which says "no laureth sulfates" but they have this:

Sodium Lauroamphoacetate
Sodium Myreth Sulfate
Diazolidinyl Urea
and
the 2nd to last listed ingredient: Dimethicone

Are those two sodium ingredients supposed to be a more gentle cleansing agent, or just as bad as SLS?

Is Urea not something one should avoid?

If they have dimethicone as one of the very last ingredients, does that mean there's not much of it in the shampoo?

I'm still trying to learn how to read a label. Thank you for your help.

Cherisse i cant help with the sulphates but im pretty sure if dimethicone is the last ingrediant then there isnt alot in it. I think ingrediants are listed in order from highest quantity to lowest.

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:23 am

TheresaL wrote:

What does bother me is when "natural" companies feel the need to say coconut derived when they describe the SLS in their product. It is a bunch of marketing nonsense designed to imply that this stuff is not a chemical! Wink

I totally agree with you that it's a bunch of nonsense! I posted a related comment in another thread tonight:
I am learning that many companies producing "all natural" products still use ingredients, which they may list as "derived from [insert plant name here]", which are not naturally derived (as in, petrochemically derived or obtained through some other chemical derivation process.) It seems that a common school of thought in the organic, all natural world is that if an ingredient is not naturally derived then it is actually a synthetic ingredient.

Cherisse wrote:

I just received my Jason shampoo which says "no laureth sulfates" but they have this:

Sodium Lauroamphoacetate
Sodium Myreth Sulfate
Diazolidinyl Urea
and
the 2nd to last listed ingredient: Dimethicone

Are those two sodium ingredients supposed to be a more gentle cleansing agent, or just as bad as SLS?

Is Urea not something one should avoid?

If they have dimethicone as one of the very last ingredients, does that mean there's not much of it in the shampoo?

I'm still trying to learn how to read a label. Thank you for your help.

I've heard that sodium myreth sulfate is similar to SLS but has larger molecules that won't penetrate the hair shaft. I still don't like the idea of using it. I just realized that my coveted Jason liquid hand soap contains this and I'm a bit dissapointed. Albeit, I can say that it seems to be very gentle. It makes me feel a little bit better knowing I am rinsing it off too. But still...

Diazolidinyl Urea is a formaldahyde releasing chemical. I always avoid it. Usually it is found along with parabens (or is it the other urea) as a preservative. I always find it disconcerting to see it listed in products sold in "natural food" stores. Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:35 am

Is it Sodium Lauryl Sulfate same with Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate ?

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:07 am

Cherisse wrote:

I just received my Jason shampoo which says "no laureth sulfates" but they have this:

Sodium Lauroamphoacetate
Sodium Myreth Sulfate
Diazolidinyl Urea

Is Urea not something one should avoid?

I'm still trying to learn how to read a label. Thank you for your help.

Confusing isn't it?! I know that urea is a byproduct of urine, not too happy with putting that on my body, might as well just p*ss on myself! Wink

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:47 am

Well I eat organic where I can and try to use products that are as natural as possible but I try to be sensible - For example I am a redhead and pale and burn thinking about the sun, plus my father had skin cancer so I use a 'nasty' chemical sunscreen thats photo-stable - I figure I'm way more at risk from skincancer than I am from a product with a chemical in it.
So if a product works without a 'nasty' great if it does't then I'll use one that isn't quite so 'pure' to gain the benefit I want. I'm the same with haircare - I have tried all sorts of sulfate free shampoo's but have now gone back to a mild shampoo with them in - I found that shampoos with other detergents (and unless they are using a soap based cleanser like olive oil castille for example,thats what they'll have in them to make them foam - can one of our chemists correct me if I'm wrong?Ta!)dried my hair out over a few washes and left it 'crispy' and dull and just didn't deliver for me personally. In fact when I used a shampoo with one ingredient/detergent instead of Sulfates(coco-polyglucose)I seemed experience more hair fall which slowed back to normal within a wash or two with Sodium Laureth Sulfate based shampoo.(I have tried this several times so not a co-incidence).

So although I read alot about sulfates causing problems my hair/scalp disagreed - one thing I have learnt about cosmetics/skin/haircare both on a personal and professional level (Beauty Therapist/Hairdresser) is that a lot of companies hop onto a bandwagon (eg saying a product is sulfate/paraben free for example and then replace it with something else which may be just as harsh/just as chemically/and just as able to cause unwanted side effects and has it's own drawbacks, but that the public isn't so aware of and then use the same marketing ploy (by telling you its corn derived in the case of the detergent above)!

I personal feeling that if you're happy with a product and its delivering the results you want then use it! Whether it be natural or a chemical cocktail - they all potentially have drawbacks and side effects although if you can limit your exposure, and therefore the cumulative effect of suspect ingredients, then that has to be a good thing.

Smile

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:47 am

lotus003 wrote:

Is it Sodium Lauryl Sulfate same with Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate ?

I made a list:

Common Detergents (Harsh to Gentle)

Alkyl Sulfates
Soaps
Isethionates
Sulfosuccinates
Sulfoacetates
Taurates
Betaines
Amphoacetates
Sarcosines/Sarcosinates
Glutamates
Glucosides

Some of this is from actual scientific studies of transepidermal water loss. Like isethionates are worse than sulfosuccinates.

Some of this is from irritancy tests. Like sarcosinates were better tolerated than betaines.

Some I kind of just guessed at. So this isn't perfect, but I couldn't find any other list like this on the Internet, so tried to make one.

Again, it's not perfect. Like what if SLS is actually doing more damage to the skin because of its protein denaturing properties. However, soap feels more irritating b/c it strips more intercellular lipids? What I'm saying is maybe harm doesn't completely equal irritancy. But I tried my best with this. I hope John or Darren or anyone can give me their takes.

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:31 am

Cherisse,

the surfectants in your Jason shampoo are very mild and shouldn't be damaging--sodium myreth sulfate is supposed to be one of the most gentle cleansing agents there is... i wouldn't worry unless you have a bunch of sulfates right at the top of your ingredient list... which you do not. of course, if you are indeed wanting to be a purist, there are so many amazing products out there that actually work and have NONE!

--avalange

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:40 am

Thanks RMB for postint list Smile

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:52 am

RMB wrote:

lotus003 wrote:

Is it Sodium Lauryl Sulfate same with Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate ?

I made a list:

Common Detergents (Harsh to Gentle)

Alkyl Sulfates
Soaps
Isethionates
Sulfosuccinates
Sulfoacetates
Taurates
Betaines
Amphoacetates
Sarcosines/Sarcosinates
Glutamates
Glucosides

Some of this is from actual scientific studies of transepidermal water loss. Like isethionates are worse than sulfosuccinates.

Some of this is from irritancy tests. Like sarcosinates were better tolerated than betaines.

Some I kind of just guessed at. So this isn't perfect, but I couldn't find any other list like this on the Internet, so tried to make one.

Again, it's not perfect. Like what if SLS is actually doing more damage to the skin because of its protein denaturing properties. However, soap feels more irritating b/c it strips more intercellular lipids? What I'm saying is maybe harm doesn't completely equal irritancy. But I tried my best with this. I hope John or Darren or anyone can give me their takes.

This is a great start. Thank you!

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:54 am

avalange wrote:

Cherisse,

the surfectants in your Jason shampoo are very mild and shouldn't be damaging--sodium myreth sulfate is supposed to be one of the most gentle cleansing agents there is... i wouldn't worry unless you have a bunch of sulfates right at the top of your ingredient list... which you do not. of course, if you are indeed wanting to be a purist, there are so many amazing products out there that actually work and have NONE!

--avalange

Good to know! I am going to try their shampoo and conditioner. I also bought from Trader Joe's their Revive Spa brand shampoo, which seems to have a lot of good stuff in it. I can post the ingredients, so you can see if there's any bad thing in it. The only thing I recognize is paraben but it's at the end of the ingredient list though.

Avalange, would the Jason shampoo qualify as a non-detergent shampoo you mentioned?

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:40 am

The "SLS naturally derived from coconut oil" is from a Kiss My Face product, I bet. I've noticed this on their labels, and was surprised, myself.

TJs Revive shampoo and conditioner are great products.

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:24 pm

• Diazolidinyl Urea - this is a cosmetic preservative...I think you’re confusing it with plain Urea, which is a powerful moisturizer/humectant/protectant.
• Sodium Lauroamphoacetate and Sodium Myreth Sulfate - these are a gentle surfecants (foaming/cleansing agent), it is NOT one of the dreaded sulfates. Those are “SLS - sodium laurel sulfate” and “SLES - sodium laureth sulfate” and are the ones that are the same used in dishwashing and laundry detergent as well as most toothpastes. SLS/SLES are what make the product foam.
So long as the dimethicone is not among the first three ingredients on the product list, then the amount in the product is minuscule/trivial. When evaluating a products ingredients, you need to look at the first three ingredients listed as those comprise at least 75% of the formulation (this is a generalization, sometimes it’s a bit more or less) and therefore they are the most potent/concentrated ingredients. If the dimethicone is in the Top 3, I personally would avoid it. If it’s at the end of the list, it’s probably not going to be harmful.

HTH,
Carrie

P.S. I’m told that it is only the U.S. which requires products to list ingredients in their order of importance (i.e.: how much of the ingredient comprises the formulation) so if you’re using a product that was created/originated overseas, then the ingredient list may not be as helpful in determining whether the amount of the ingredient in the formula is a “safe” level so please keep that in mind when evaluating your products!

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:47 pm

carekate wrote:

• Diazolidinyl Urea - this is a cosmetic preservative...I think you’re confusing it with plain Urea, which is a powerful moisturizer/humectant/protectant.
• Sodium Lauroamphoacetate and Sodium Myreth Sulfate - these are a gentle surfecants (foaming/cleansing agent), it is NOT one of the dreaded sulfates. Those are “SLS - sodium laurel sulfate” and “SLES - sodium laureth sulfate” and are the ones that are the same used in dishwashing and laundry detergent as well as most toothpastes. SLS/SLES are what make the product foam.
So long as the dimethicone is not among the first three ingredients on the product list, then the amount in the product is minuscule/trivial. When evaluating a products ingredients, you need to look at the first three ingredients listed as those comprise at least 75% of the formulation (this is a generalization, sometimes it’s a bit more or less) and therefore they are the most potent/concentrated ingredients. If the dimethicone is in the Top 3, I personally would avoid it. If it’s at the end of the list, it’s probably not going to be harmful.

HTH,
Carrie

P.S. I’m told that it is only the U.S. which requires products to list ingredients in their order of importance (i.e.: how much of the ingredient comprises the formulation) so if you’re using a product that was created/originated overseas, then the ingredient list may not be as helpful in determining whether the amount of the ingredient in the formula is a “safe” level so please keep that in mind when evaluating your products!

Carrie, thank you! This is very helpful. It helps to put things in perspectives. I am a newbie at learning to read ingredient lists. I am so grateful to find EDS and have so many knowledgeable people helping me out with my limited knowledge of better skincare products.

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:43 pm

I've been told by my sister that SLS and SLES are bad ever since high school.. but I never really stayed away from them. Confused

Guess I should start.. Thanks for the info! Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:55 pm

This is so interesting, Carrie. I'm completely mystified as to how to read labels here in Europe--even Avene's Eluage doesn't make sense to me ... I was wondering how a product would be at all effective if retinalhyde (sp) was the second to last ingredient after a slew of dis-activating chemicals! I still think it is an unimpressive product overall, but your p.s. gives me a bit of perspective--thanks!

Quote:

P.S. I’m told that it is only the U.S. which requires products to list ingredients in their order of importance (i.e.: how much of the ingredient comprises the formulation) so if you’re using a product that was created/originated overseas, then the ingredient list may not be as helpful in determining whether the amount of the ingredient in the formula is a “safe” level so please keep that in mind when evaluating your products!

Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:50 pm

avalange wrote:

This is so interesting, Carrie. I'm completely mystified as to how to read labels here in Europe--even Avene's Eluage doesn't make sense to me ... I was wondering how a product would be at all effective if retinalhyde (sp) was the second to last ingredient after a slew of dis-activating chemicals! I still think it is an unimpressive product overall, but your p.s. gives me a bit of perspective--thanks!

Vitamin A derivatives are potent. It shouldn't be surprising to see them near the end of the ingredients list. Prescription tretinoin/Retin A starts with 0.025% and the highest strength it'll go is 0.1%. Avene also goes up to 0.1% retinaldehyde in some of their formulations and no further, I think. Oh, and think of all those salicylic acid products that usually appear in 1-2% and some in 5% for peels and such (Diana Yvonne comes to mind).

Dermatologists usually say to give topical Vit A up to 6 weeks to see results for acne and wrinkles. How long have you been using the Eluage? Lots of people have experienced excellent results with Avene's retinaldehyde products so I'm aching to try some of it myself and would like to hear more reviews. Wink

free skin care · Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:08 am

poohlisey wrote:

I've been told by my sister that SLS and SLES are bad ever since high school.. but I never really stayed away from them. Confused

Guess I should start.. Thanks for the info! Very Happy

yeah, they are everywhere!!!!
I just checked all my shampoos, from tigi to mop to john frieda to dove..... they all contain SLS!

SO worried now, which brand doesn't have this????

free skin care · Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:31 am

jacque wrote:

yeah, they are everywhere!!!!
I just checked all my shampoos, from tigi to mop to john frieda to dove..... they all contain SLS!

SO worried now, which brand doesn't have this????

SLS are what make the products foam, chances are unless your items are 100% organic and state that they don't contain SLS, then if they foam, they will.

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