Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in

MSM - I lost body fat & tighter skin - anyone else too?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum
Reply to topic
Author Message
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 3406
Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:34 am      Reply with quote
Is there any side affects? Can MSN alter any type of medicationg that you could be taking?
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:47 am      Reply with quote
It does not seem to negatively effect medications in most cases. And many people find they can lower medication doses, as their body functions improve. This is especially true of joint and migraine pain medications, allergy medications etc. (MSM helps treat those issues)

Of course do discuss your specifics with your Dr or Pharmacist to confirm that it will not present an issue for your health and medication concerns, as I am not a qualified medical professional.

Side effects are temporary, related to the detox issues when you first use it, or first up your doses. It is less toxic then water.

The link I posted above on the De-Tox is a good read about that. Also review the messageboard link I posted for more details, on possible issues with different health concerns or meds. You may need to adjust your dose for your specific situation. You can also email Kerry on the site. (hes the owner, posts on the board, and you can reach him through the Contact link) He is very friendly, knowledgeable and very very helpful.

If you have a damaged or weak liver or kidney issues, do take small doses and move up very slowly so as not to overwhelm your waste removal system with to many toxins at once.

MSM does not build up in the body, it flushes out with your urine, with a half life of 12 hours. Which is why you should take a dose every 12 hours to keep levels high. A compromised waste removal system can change this timeframe.

Many take amounts as high as 50,000 mg or more, for disease treatments, without side effects. (I don’t recommend that level unless under a Dr care of course)
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 3406
Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:55 am      Reply with quote
Tangal wrote:
It does not seem to negatively effect medications in most cases. And many people find they can lower medication doses, as their body functions improve. This is especially true of joint and migraine pain medications, allergy medications etc. (MSM helps treat those issues)

Of course do discuss your specifics with your Dr or Pharmacist to confirm that it will not present an issue for your health and medication concerns, as I am not a qualified medical professional.

Side effects are temporary, related to the detox issues when you first use it, or first up your doses. It is less toxic then water.

The link I posted above on the De-Tox is a good read about that. Also review the messageboard link I posted for more details, on possible issues with different health concerns or meds. You may need to adjust your dose for your specific situation. You can also email Kerry on the site. (hes the owner, posts on the board, and you can reach him through the Contact link) He is very friendly, knowledgeable and very very helpful.

If you have a damaged or weak liver or kidney issues, do take small doses and move up very slowly so as not to overwhelm your waste removal system with to many toxins at once.

MSM does not build up in the body, it flushes out with your urine, with a half life of 12 hours. Which is why you should take a dose every 12 hours to keep levels high. A compromised waste removal system can change this timeframe.

Many take amounts as high as 50,000 mg or more, for disease treatments, without side effects. (I don't recommend that level unless under a Dr care of course)

I have to admit that I am not familiar with MSN...can you tell me if this is sold in Canada, like Walmart or Shoppers Drug Mart?
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:22 am      Reply with quote
MSM is short for Methylsulfonylmethane, it is a natural sulfur found in all body fluids and tissues. It is needed to sustain life and health, but hard to get in food sources, as cooking and processing remove it.

It can benefit one in many ways including: “...effective solution for … degenerative arthritis, chronic back pain, chronic headache, muscle pain, fibromyalgia, tendinitis and bursitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, TMJ, post-traumatic pain and inflammation, and allergies.”
Other claims-“Arthritis, Cancer, Dermititis, Gangrene, Lead Poisoning, Paget’s Disease, & TMJ. Very Important for Bronchitis, Fibromyalgia, Fracture, Multiple Sclerosis, Osteoporosis, Periodontal Disease, Prostatitis, Sprains, & Wrinkles. Important for Abscess, Allergies, Backache, Psoriasis, Seborrea, Thrombophlebitis, Warts, Wilson’s Disease and helpful for Autism, Bursitis, Cystic Fibrosis, Gout, Hair Loss, Headache, Heartburn/Reflux, Bone Spur, Sinusitis, & Vitiligo.”

I find it beneficial for hair, nail growth and skin health. It can help breakup skin pigment patches and freckles. Because it helps inflammation it is wonderful for the skin, as many skincare issues are related to inflammation either product, environment or diet related.
(Dr N Perricone stresses this in his studies and books)

It helps enhance immune system function, waste removal, and helps all cells in the body absorb nutrients better and filter waste better.

It is non toxic, and rarely causes allergy issues. People with Sulfa allergies will not react to MSM. They are not the same thing.

It can be used as a supplement or cream.

MSM is available form many sources,. Some concerns, many caps contain fillers. As much as 33% of total product volume.

And most MSM sources are from foreign Asian labs, Which can contain heavy metal residues, which is not great.
Because they are not tested by third party USA or Canadian sources, you have less guaranty of metal free products.

Best recommendations are from USA sources, or those with strict third party testing, which have stronger quality control.

Look for labels with the following logos which are good options. These are both tested by third part independent firms to confirm purity and lack of metal residues.

Lignisul MSM or OptiMSM should appear on your label.

The MSM link I provided uses those brands. NSI from Vitacost uses those brands also and is an excellent source.

Bio-alternatives use another brand, but independent third party testing.

It should be available in most health food and Drug stores, in the USA. Not sure on Canada.

Some USA Walmarts carry it, not all.
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:50 am      Reply with quote
Some info from online - I can’t personally comment on validity of these claims. But info to look at anyway.

I personally don’t think MSM is a cure all as some claim. But it can be benificial.

Info on MSM and Hyper pigmentation,21783

What is MSM? - for all the newcomers
Posted by: Moderator (24.73.65.---)
Date: July 5, 2006 02:39PM

Posted earlier today by Jesse and originally posted by Ness Wild


Author: Ness (
Date: 09-17-02 09:05

Hi to all newcomers!

This info has been copied/modified and updated (8 months in on this experiment and it has been necessary to update the info accordingly due to relevant feedback/queries etc) from older identical threads that I have posted intermittently which are now on an older pages of this forum and it is for all newcomers to MSM only who may not have come across these older threads - please do not tag onto or reply to this thread. Once you have read the info required, if you choose to try this treatment out as well, just tag onto the other threads for chat/extra queries/results to share etc....

The following is all you should need to know regarding MSM brands and dosage guidelines etc along with info about some fairly minor side effects that you may just experience whilst taking it:

(Firstly though, as I am sure most of you already have done, do read all threads related to MSM for the full picture; you will obtain plenty of info from these threads and will come across many girls who share your situation (site of melasma, whether or not they too are responding to MSM, whether the drugs/BCP’s they have to still take are hindering their results etc) and they will prove to contain invaluable advice/tips for you that we have all shared.)

A few common questions are also highlighted along with the necessary info:

a) ‘Will it help melasma of the upper lip too like it does for those with melasma elsewhere on the face?’ Yes it could do, even for that of the body.

b) ‘Will it affect/interfere with the medication I have to currently take?’ No, not at all.

c) ‘Is it safe?’ It has been shown to have 1/7 the toxicity of table salt. i.e. it’s 7 times safer than table salt. In a study done on humans, MSM was shown to have no negative side effects at 1 g/kg body weight. That means around 68 g/day for a 150 Ib (pound weight) person. N.B. Do not take at the same time as blood thinning or blood pressure medication and aspirin, or if you have epilepsy or any kidney disorder without first consulting your GP, physician or nurse.

d) ‘What is it?’ A nutrient - an organic compound that is as essential as oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen and carbon needed by the body for good health and proper and normal cellular-function - crucially, it no longer appears to be abundantly available in our over-processed and refined foods and little is found in the over-farmed soils too - with this decline seems to have come an increase in ailments and disease.

e) ‘I am allergic to sulphites/DMSO etc, will I have a reaction with MSM?’ No, do not get confused between the two. MSM is an organic sulphur and a vital nutrient. MSM presents organic sulphur in a form that the body can readily assimilate. It is a dietary metabolite of DMSO, however, whilst they both possess similar biomedical properties, MSM does not produce the unpleasant side effects that can be observed with DMSO. Sulpha-based drugs do not occur naturally and are used for the same purposes as antibiotics. Many people are allergic to sulpha drugs, however, no similar reactions have ever been reported with MSM. A third type of sulphur, the yellow elemental sulphur from chemistry class, can also be toxic to some individuals. You may, however, only get a rash if you take too much too soon and/or increase your dose too quicky.

f) ‘Can everyone take it, even young kids and the elderly?’ So it seems but those with kidney complaints or taking blood thinning medication need to check with their doctors first - anyone else who is uncertain must do the same. However, MSM can in some instances (e.g. those on blood pressure lowering treatment) actually replace their medication and do an even better job, more chemical drugs! Always do web research on your personal medical situation and type in MSM along with the name of eg: your ailment, in your search engine - you may find out that others are benefitting from supplementing with MSM as it is. For example: some who already are benefitting from MSM have blood pressure problems, epilepsy, acne, rosacea, diabetes etc.

g) ‘Does it smell/taste awful?’ No, PURE brands are odourless and the powder/crystals have a slightly bitter taste when dissolved in water which wanes over time to the point that you will hardly taste it any more. This shows that you have adjusted to it. If disliked, flavour your drinks with cordial/juice.

h) ‘Is it better to take powder/crystals or tablets/capsules?’ Personally, I think powder/crystals (UNLESS you are taking/want to try MSM Max - an excellent freeze-dried (not encapsulated form) 99.99% pure tablet with NOTHING else added at all which is stronger and I would recommend taking it after having gotten the body adjusted first to the ordinary strength powder unless you are the brave sort or don’t have any adverse side effects with MSM at all) as it is more readily available to the body and less likely to contain fillers. You can also add the powder/crystals to a base to make a great topical - see below for details. Add the powder/crystals to or take the tablets/capsules with a tall glass of water and take at the same time as a meal/food (dose guidelines below). You can also take Vitamin C (Ester-C is the best form) at the same time if you wish to.

i) ‘Is it having a bleaching effect?’ No, all those that it works for know that it is clearing the melasma permanently, and more importantly, safely.

j) How long will it take? It will take a while so have patience! Some see changes in a day, others in a few weeks - but the higher the dose, apparently the better/quicker. Take only your own optimal dose, generally speaking we, on average, have taken between 8-15,000mg/day each during this experiment. Mine is 70% gone and I have been taking MSM for 5 months now. (dose guidelines below)

k) ‘How come it works?’ Lots of possibilities - it is a hormone balancer; a tyrosinase inhibitor; it seems to prevent secondary browning reactions; it elevates cortisol levels; it balances the body ph taking it from a too acidic to a healthier alkaline ph; it removes toxic waste/metals/chemicals from the blood and organs thereby cleansing the body and restoring good health and boosting the immune system etc etc.

l) ‘Will it affect/lighten my overall skin tone as well as the dark patches?’ No, and the newly returned normal skin pigment will not tan abnormally anymore either; it will just tan normally and fade normally like the unaffected surrounding areas of skin, but still use sunscreen of course in order to tan safely. The remaining abnormal brown pigment, that still has to respond, will still darken in the sun with or without sun protection but not as dark as before taking MSM so many of us found - so that was good news.

m) ‘What are the side effects that I should be aware of?’ These symptoms could simply be a detox reaction or just a phase attributed to the body adjusting to MSM: possible water retention/puffiness and bloatedness, sleep pattern disturbances, dry mouth/increased thirst, a transient headache from release of toxins, constipation or loose stools, mild but temporary nausea, wind/gas and a temporary recurrence/flare up of yeast infections if they are dormant (thrush, itchiness etc). N.B.! These symptoms are not experienced by all supplement takers, just a few, and even then it doesn’t last more than a few days or could be experienced for a few hours on the days you increase your dose. Whatever you are ‘going through’ in the first few days is a ‘good’ sign that the MSM is targeting your problem areas ok? The body adjusts quickly and settles down, just drink PLENTY of water!!! Very important! If any of the above reactions are severe, cut the dose back a bit and increase at a steadier and more spaced out rate (dose guidelines below).

n) ‘Is there anything else I should know?’ Well, your hair and nails will grow fast and your skin will become super smooth and clearer; you may notice a reduction in fine lines, mood swings will level off and your overall spirit will improve, you may taste/smell/see better/with more clarity, be sharper-minded, physically stronger, wounds heal quicker, better assimilation and digestion of food, clearer eyes and whiter teeth etc, etc. Everyone benefits in many and different ways....and they will be individual and unique to you and your current health situation - only then can you truly ascertain what has improved on a personal level.

o) ‘Where can I buy it?’ If you live in the US, you could order MSM Sulphur from: or, these are good quality and very pure brands of MSM or if you find a brand in a local store which is from an organic source and has the ‘OptiMSM’ or ‘Lignisul MSM’ trademarked logos (proof/guarantee of excellent quality) then try those ones. They should be good if they have these stamps of approval on them.

If you live in the UK go to a GNC health store and buy ‘Supasulf’, made by NutriLabs, it’s a mainly white bottle with the trademark ‘OptiMSM’ stamped on it. Alternatively, you could order it online if you don’t have a GNC store nearby at:, they also take orders from abroad. If you want to try/switch to the crystals, then go online to

To buy Rich’s MSM Max (stronger), go to Google and type in ‘Rich’s MSM Max USA’ and buy online - there are a few choices in the USA. In the UK, go to Excellent stuff! And most definitely recommended because of it’s perfect quality and efficacy and this brand will give you your optimal daily dose of pure MSM.

p) ‘How do I take it then?’

All forms of MSM can be taken with or mixed into any flavoured beverage or plain water. The powder, if pure, should dissolve instantly. The crystals tend to dissolve better in just higher-than-room temperatures and take a tad longer than the powder. MSM should be taken with a meal or food. The smallest dose that gives you the most benefit is optimal. More isn’t better, just more. It is best to find, and you will know when you have found it, the dose that works for you as an individual. The body will use only enough MSM to meet it?s full requirements and any excess will be excreted and wasted, so there is no danger of overdosing, just the danger of spending more money than necessary to keep your supplies up. Because the body excretes excess MSM after a 12 hour period, it is best to split the full daily dose throughout your day in order to keep levels up for as long as possible during this treatment.

The dose recommendations given below are a guide only, because we all have different body sizes, weights, health factors and needs. 2000 mg (2 g) tends to work for general maintenance and health. However, more will be required for treating this condition and any other health problems present in order to make sure that not just the overall general requirements of the body are met first and foremost. However, too much too soon can lead to some minor side effects. The more your body needs, the more you will be able to tolerate. An increased dosage may be needed during times of extra stress or illness or when results ‘plateau’, or slow down dramatically because the body has adjusted. This may be the right time to boost your dose a little (eg: by 1g) or introduce your body to MSM Max and get that melasma shifting!!!

1. 1 X 1000 mg capsule/tablet or 1/4 level teaspoon powder/crystals for 2 days with breakfast
2. 2 X 1000 mg capsule/tablet or 1/2 level teaspoon powder/crystals for 2 days with breakfast
3. 3 X 1000 mg capsule/tablet or 1 level teaspoon powder/crystals for 2 days with breakfast
4. 4 X 1000 mg capsule/tablet or 1 slightly raised teaspoon powder/crystals for 2 days with breakfast
5. 5 X 1000 mg capsule/tablet or 1 heaped teaspoon powder/crystals for 2 days with breakfast

On reaching 5000 mg or 1 level teaspoon a day, to supplement further still if desired, the additional doses were taken with lunch and/or dinner in the same format as points 1-5 above, until an optimal dose was found. This varied with each individual but tended to be on average between 8,000 mg and 15,000 mg/day. This dose was maintained for many weeks. Occasionally, circumstances dictated that a lower dose had to be taken for a while, eg: during sickness or travel, but this did not hinder progress in any way.

Some girls found that they were more comfortable increasing their dose at a much more steady rate than that outlined above and they may have taken a few months to reach their optimal dose. It is wise to not rush in order to allow the body to adjust properly.

Rich’s MSM Max is easier to work out your individual requirements with - they recommend you take 1xtablet twice a day per 70 pounds of body weight, so this will help enormously to get the right individual dose as we are all different body sizes and weights. No matter what you decide, always remember, because we have a disease, and something is wrong internally, our needs are greater than the normal healthy individuals who take MSM, so a higher dose than ‘normal’ (one that you feel comfortable with/can tolerate) is necessary during this therapy, afterwards, we can all relax and take a small dose daily if we prefer (eg: 2g a day - can’t wait!)

q) ‘what should I expect to see happening?’

Your melasma patches or macules could start to get tiny fragments, cracks and dots etc appearing in them, that will gradually combine to form larger patches revealing normal-coloured skin. Fading occurs either at the same time or at a later stage. Some women observed the cracks and dots phenomenon, some observed just overall lightening, and others experienced both. Changes will be sporadic, and superficial lighter macules could change before the more stubborn, dermal melasma does or vice versa. All areas responded during the experiment; forehead, cheeks, nose, upper lip, chin and neck.

Progress seems to be rapid initially, and after a few weeks, it plateaus to a more even and steady (sometimes painfully slow) rate. You may experience these occasional ?quiet? days where nothing at all seems to happen for a while; this is normal and does not mean that progress has stopped (time to introduce MSM Max methinks!) It could take many, many months until the macules have disappeared altogether so patience is important. The length of time could depend on your age, overall health, how long you have had melasma and how widespread it is. It will also help if you protect yourself from the sun.

It is advisable to take photos before you start taking MSM, and take them regularly thereafter. This will help you to ascertain whether you are experiencing changes with the MSM or not. A few of us, during ?quiet? moments, had periods of doubt about what we were observing, but the photos proved otherwise, especially when compared with those taken a few months later.

r) ‘How do I make the topical solution?’

MSM creams are readily available in health stores. But to guarantee the highest percentage of MSM available, purity and quality, make your own topical by using your MSM powder or crystals and blending them into a base of your choice. This could be your regular moisturizer, but pure non-sticky aloe vera gel is best, which in itself provides therapeutic benefits for all types of skin conditions.

Add 1 level teaspoon of MSM powder/crystals to every single fluid ounce of base. This will give you a 17% strength topical (the highest possible percentage that is available without the mix turning gritty) to use on the patches daily after washing both morning and night. Stir it well until fully dissolved, this may take a few hours and shake well before each use. It is better absorbed if applied to a non-towel dried (damp) face. Not everybody used a topical solution during the experiment which proved that oral supplementation of MSM provided the most benefit. Whether it was used or not, all remarked on how amazingly soft the skin on the whole became and how other skin problems subsided through it?s regular use.

s) Despite knowing that it caused my melasma, I have to keep taking the pill/prescription drug, will MSM not work for me then?
During the experiment, 4 months in, two girls had to keep taking the birth control pill, and one, a thyroid drug. All observed changes to varying degrees. Some girls realized that the drugs they had to stay on were hampering their progress. Everybody has different results. Regardless of whether you are taking drugs or not, it helps to remember that MSM doesn?t, unfortunately, work for absolutely everyone. However, 5 months in on the experiment, 45 women were having results which is pretty good!

t) Why is it not working for me? There seems to be different ?types? of melasma or hyperpigmentation medically diagnosed as such (colour, pattern, site) coupled with different causative factors. It is unclear exactly how and why, until further extensive clinical studies are undertaken, MSM actually works on a scientific level for some sufferers, and why it doesn?t work for everyone is even more puzzling. Underlying, but more serious health problems could be hindering results and these would need to be tackled first, because getting to the core of any other problem, especially if it precipitated the onset of melasma, could be the key to your recovery. It may be worth trying the following:

A. Improve your diet
B. Increase your water intake
C. Make sure you are taking the optimal dose for your body size, weight and individual health requirements
D. Stop taking, where possible, any prescription drugs that could be responsible for hormone irregularities inducing photosensitivity.
E. Reduce your possible exposure to chemicals both environmental eg: pollution and topical eg: topical creams, sunscreens, makeup etc that may be also be inducing photosensitivity.
F. Getting your hormone levels checked out by an endocrinologist
G. See your GP about whether an underlying disorder eg: Addison?s Disease is present that will require specialist treatment.

My book is going to cover many more questions that I have observed arising out of this experiment and they are written up a damn sight better than this, I promise, as this was a quick ‘knock-up’ for you all. Apologies all round, but I have covered the most important issues regardless, I think. Please post your experiences and share all your exciting news with us all! If you prefer to, you can contact me privately on my e-mail many do already so I’m fine about that.

Many thanks and I wish you all the very best of luck!

Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:58 am      Reply with quote
The link above,21783

also has comments from some who had increased hair loss from MSM.

Usually this stops after two to six weeks, as it is related to increased hair growth, pushing dead hair out of the way from new growth.

But some felt that it was related to toxin circulation in the body. Adjusting doses and oincresaing water is suggested.

I never had either of those issues, so can't addres that really.

A few commented on acne increase at first, again toxin related, that went away. Dose adjustments and wqater should help. Though with any supplimet, if you are sensitive to it, it may also not be "for you" and if acne continues you may need to stop. I have this with Biotin, if I dose to high. But at lower doses I am fine.
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:03 am      Reply with quote
Advertising claims for MSM for hair, skin and nails. But some good info if you can weed through the hype.

MSM For Healthy Hair, Nails & Skin
Author: Karen Marie Shelton
Date: 12/20/2001 - Revised 5/10/2006


You may have heard about MSM. After all, its value as a “super nutrient” has generated some buzz over the past few years. Earl L. Mindell, R.Ph, Ph.D and author of Earl Mindell’s Vitamin Bible has dedicated an entire book to the topic of MSM.
When we created the new HairTopia vitamin at we discussed the pros and cons of adding MSM to the formula with many different experts. It was highly recommended by the chemists that we consulted with that we add MSM to the formula because it has been proven to really help with hair growth.
Of course we did not add MSM to HairTopia on a simple whim. We did a lot of research, read a lot of articles and finally decided that MSM would definitely enhance the hair strengthening and growth properties of the HairTopia vitamins. MSM was added to the HairTopia Amino Acid formula.

So what exactly is MSM?
Official MSM is Methylsulfonylmethane. Quite simply MSM is a food that comes from the ocean, is water soluble, and is not a drug, or a food additive. MSM is the 3rd largest ingredient found in the human body.

MSM is a natural form of organic sulfonyl sulfur compound that is found in the fluid of all living organisms. It is present in a variety of foods, including most fresh raw fruits and green vegetables, milk, meat, seafood, and some grains. It is also found in many common beverages such as milk, coffee and tea. It is, in essence, a pure white, odorless, essentially tasteless, water-soluble crystalline solid sulfur powder.
Why does MSM help with the development of longer and stronger hair? Various scientific studies have proven that MSM contributes a definite normalizing effect on body functions.
The sulfur normally provided to the body by MSM is required for healthy collagen and keratin which are essential for healthy hair, skin and nails. MSM also has proven antioxidant benefits which can disrupt or alter damaging chain reactions of lipid peroxidation in the cell membranes.

MSM is considered to be one of the safest substances in biology, similar in toxicity to water. MSM and its related compounds are the source of 85 percent of the sulfur found in all living organisms. Many researchers believe that sulfur, is a sorely neglected mineral nutrient and plays an indispensable role in human nutrition.
MSM is volatile and is easily lost during even moderate processing. Cooking, drying, smoking, pickling, and long-term storage can deplete the MSM content of food. Unless the human diet is composed primarily of raw foods, it is unlikely that sufficient MSM will be ingested to significantly contribute to the nutritional sulfur requirement.

MSM Sulfonyl Is Safe
Sulfonyl Sulfur, which is a key ingredient of MSM, should not be confused with other ingredients like sulfa, sulfite or sulfate. Sulfa, sulfite and/or sulfate are harmful derivatives of the sulfur family which the body does not need and is not in any way included in MSM.
Sulfa is used in wounds to burn and cauterize while sulfites are put in common foods to prevent the bugs from eating them, and sulfates are used in lunch meats and sausages to preserve them.

Some people may be allergic to sulfa’s, sulfites, and sulfates which are part of the sulfur family like MSM.
The sulfonyl in MSM is nutritional, and it is extremely rare that humans are ever allergic to it. Remember, all human bodies require MSM.
What Is DMSO?

MSM should also not be confused with DMSO. Although MSM and DMSO have some similarities, they are also unique in the benefits that they provide.

MSM is DMSO without the bad smelling chemical D1-Methyl. Research chemist Robert Herschler discovered how to oxidize DMSO, causing MSM to crystallize becoming pure and stable. This process made it possible to store MSM and use as needed without the bad taste or smell. The body uses MSM to create new healthy cells.
Vitamins and amino acids work with MSM to repair and create these healthy cells. Without proper levels of MSM, our bodies are unable to build good healthy cells, and this can lead to all sorts of illness.
To maintain good health, we need good flexible, healthy cells. Illness is the result and consequence of a body deficient of materials needed to repair damaged tissue and organs.
To fight this deterioration process we must supplement our diets with MSM to provide the body with the proper building materials to maintain a healthy body.
New Cells 24 Hours A Day

MSM has been proven to be rapidly metabolized by the body. Sulfur is found in all tissues measured within 24 hours of oral ingestion.
The majority of unused and metabolized MSM occurs within 95-100 hours following ingestion, although measurable quantities have been reported in urine 400-450 hours. Sulfur has a rapid turnover in the body. Therefore it is very important to be sure that sulfur be replenished on a regular basis.
If our body doesn’t receive the proper nutrition and the building materials it needs, it will produce unhealthy, dysfunctional cells that are deficient in the basic ingredients that constitute a healthy cell.
The human body is amazing and always tries to heal itself, but with deficient materials, it draws from other resources, and usually takes what it needs from other parts of the body.
If we give the body what it needs to heal itself, it will repair damaged parts and become healthy again. If we want a good flexible cell, capable of maintaining good health, we need to supplement our diets with MSM, to enable the body to heal itself.
Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to take vitamin C along with MSM to make it work. If you are unable to take vitamin C, MSM will still work for you.

No Overdose With MSM.
The body will use what it needs, and after twelve hours, will flush any excess amounts out of the body. If you want to maintain good healthy cells 24 hours a day, it is suggested you take MSM in the morning and evening. The MSM will flush what the body doesn’t retain semi-permanently every twelve hours, and because it is a free radical and foreign protein scavenger. MSM cleans the blood stream, so allergies to food and pollens go away in about 3 or 4 days.
Toxicity studies completed on MSM demonstrated that the compound is remarkably non-toxic. Extremely high dosages, up to 2,000 mg/kg, were utilized for measurement purposes in the toxicity research with no adverse reaction measured.

No Known Side Effects

Acute, intermediate, and long term studies indicate that MSM exhibits very low toxicity, by any route of administration. In fact, MSM has a toxicity profile similar to that of glycerin and water. Aqueous solutions of MSM have been used as safe blood dilutents, demonstrating it to be nonallergenic, nonpyretic, and without adverse pharmacological effect.

MSM has been widely used as a dietary supplement without any reports of allergy or intolerance related to its use. Supplements of MSM are comfortably assimilated without side effects. There are no known contraindications.
MSM is odorless and does not produce intestinal gas or body odor which may occur with some other forms of sulfur.
HairTopia & MSM

The only side effects of taking MSM alone, or with other supplements like HairTopia, are stronger nails, softer skin and faster growing hair. This is because with MSM you have access to more sulfur.
The sulfur normally provided to the body by MSM is required for healthy collagen and keratin which are essential for healthy hair, skin and nails. Healthy hair is stronger hair and hair that can achieve its natural genetic growth patterns.

The body knows what it needs better than any doctor. It will use MSM where it is needed. Even if your body is experiencing more than one problem... give it a little extra MSM so it can provide more nutrition and heal itself.
Three U.S. Patents have been issued on methylsulfonylmethane. The first patent (U.S. Patent No. 4,296,130) was issued in 1981 for the use of cosmetic preparations. In 1985 and 1986, two additional patents (U.S. Patent No. 4,514,421 and 4,616,039) were issued on the dietary and pharmaceutical uses of MSM. Nutritional supplements containing this patented, licensed form of MSM have been available commercially since 1986.
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:15 am      Reply with quote
Other MSM links for good info-

What is MSM from WholeHealth MD-

Hair loss/growth

MSM and bone and joint disease treatments.

VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 2198
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:22 am      Reply with quote
Tangal wrote:

Since cells are functioning better, some short term weight loss is possible.

So the weight will come back, Tangal? What is the nature of the weight loss, then, do you know?
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:39 am      Reply with quote
no I don't think the weight will return if you continue MSM.

But it is unlikely you will continue to loose ,more weight after a few pounds, useing MSM only.

I like this for weight loss, helped me loss 30 lbs. Still working on a bit more. Smile

This is a Hoodia and fiber suppliment WITHOUT metabolisum boosters, which I stronghly oppose.

60 pills are realistically only two weeks worth for most people.

This helps lessen craving between meals, to help you better regulate your diet. helps you learn to manage your diet health for life, so weight does not return.

Different people need different doses - two a day is not enough. Smile I take 4 to 6 a day. Two in the AM two in the PM. Sometimes 2 mid afternoon. Usually 4 is fine. But when I first started I needed 5 to 6 a day.

Most people will not notice a benifit for at least two weeks, at which point you will find it is easier to say no to extras, and between meal snacks.

However if you over eat, even when you are not hungry, or eat very poorly, this may not help. It helps curb cravings safely, especialy for sweets. But you still need to push yourself away from the table, and make wise food choices.

You need to tailor dose time and amounts based on when you have issues. If late night munchys are a problem, say after 6 PM. Take a dose around 6 PM with dinner, so effects will benifit you in an hour or two.

Eat good meals, make good choices.
Make sure you have good quality foods available. Don't eat junk all the time.

Have protein with EVERY meal, and snack.

Get rid of the junk foods that are the trouble issue for you.
Though with Hoodia I have bags of candy and chips here for my family, and may take one or two small pieces of candy and I am good. Pre Hoodia I had to eat the whole bag! LOL Or I can stop with a handful of Lays chips, not the whole bag.

Eat small meals through the day rather then three hugh ones. 5 small meals (or three meals two snacks) is better then three hugh ones as far as loosing weight for most people.

Substitute Whole grains, pastas etc whenever possible for white grains. More filling, and won't give the suger crash that creates cravings.

Use low fat cheeses and milk.

Drink your water, lots of it daily! Smile

Add in some exercise or walking everyday. 30 to 40 min at least.

Diet 6 days, and have one day or one meal as a free days. This helps you manage cravings if you know you CAN induge in a few days.

Useing the above, I can loss weight yet not "diet"
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 2198
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:44 am      Reply with quote
Tangal - that is a fabulous recommendation. I'm going to go for it!

Thankyou, you're a star!
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 656
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:46 am      Reply with quote
Tangal wrote:
I started with 2000 mg at a time. (I take 4000 or so now)

At a time?? Shock ?? Or a day?

I started taking MSM approximately 2 weeks ago - approximately 2 x 1000 mg cap/day (total of 2000 mg/day). I haven't been very disciplined, but I will now (I could use loosing some fat around my girly parts Wink).

So, I could safely increase to 4 x 1000 mg/day, i.e. 2 x 2000 mg/day?

Thanks, R.

44, oily T-zone, acne prone (PCOS) ~ Baby Q & Tanda (blue light) ~ Karin Herzog (Oxy Face, Vita-A-Kombi 2, Vitamin H, Eye cream) ~ PSF (Cramberry Eye Gel) ~ Pearl/Silk powder primer and mist ~ L2K ~ MMU
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:49 am      Reply with quote
I mean I started with one dose of 2000. Per day in one shot. No issues.

Now I take 2000, twice daily for a total of 4000 a day.

I have gone as high as 6000 a day. No issues.

You can probably bump up ok R.
la vie en rose
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 1622
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:50 am      Reply with quote
avalange -- thank you for having a jittery stomach as well and confirming the hopelessness of buying supplements here....

Tangal -- bless you. i do have a delicate stomach with vitamins and the like, but i was just careless with this as most other supplements don't bother me. i'll try taking it with food and work my way up slowly. admittedly, my primary concern right now is joint/scar pain and healing. the other benefits are icing on the cake!
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:19 pm      Reply with quote
Wow - I stood in the health shop the other day with a bottle of this in my hand, trying to decide whether or not to go for it.

I'd heard it could help my skin - but what I've just read on here is great! I am now thoroughly kicking myself for not buying the stuff there and then.

Thanks guys Very Happy
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 499
Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:19 pm      Reply with quote
thanks again tangal.

your post is very very informative,not something that i can just scan through. will need to sit down and slowly digest it.

my bottle of GNC expired....
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 499
Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:31 pm      Reply with quote

would your meticulous research extend to

1) multivitamins, multiminerals
2) anti-oxidant supplements
3) omega oils - 3,6 and 9
4) murad's anti cellulite supplements *hehe*
5) any anti ceullulite supplements

i would love to pop by your website and learn more from you Smile

i've only managed to narrow down a good brand for omega oil, but still undecided how the dosage and whether i need 3,6,9 or just omega 3.

this vitamin research is driving me nuts!
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1114
Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:05 pm      Reply with quote
Monica34 wrote:
I am really surprised that I have lost body fat without even trying the last three weeks. I have been taking MSM crystals for two months, building up from 2x 1000mg to 2x 2500mg and suddenly I lost weight and my skin got firmer in the thigh, tummy and upper arms. I have been exercising for several years and I always eat healthy, but there were some areas which I didnt think would change - and I was okay with that Smile It must be the MSM, since its the only thing I have done different! I lost five pounds in all the right areas LOL.

Is this just co-incidence or is that possible because of taking the MSM??

I've been taking MSM for a couple of years, but I never noticed any weight loss -- I probably should have been paying more attention. Smile
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 1089
Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:55 pm      Reply with quote
Skincare wrote:
I have to admit that I am not familiar with MSN...can you tell me if this is sold in Canada, like Walmart or Shoppers Drug Mart?

I am SOOO wanting to try this (for pigmentation issues mostly). I just did a quick search and found this ... I'm SURE I've seen this brand at either London Drugs or Shoppers Drug Mart. It looks very familiar. I'm going to check in the next few days and see if I can pick some up.

It has the OPTIMSM logo as well!

And Tangal ... thanks for all that information! Smile
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 593
Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:57 pm      Reply with quote
Yup thanks Tangal - extremely helpful. BTW I didn't feel sick yesterday at all just a little lethargic for a short while for some strange reason. Am sticking to the 2000mg a day dose but spread out over 2 doses. I'd like to second Snowstar's question about whether you are knowledgeable about other supplements? There are some others I'd like to find out about too.
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:10 am      Reply with quote
Snowstar- This may help a little. It covers Omegas (under Fish Oils. EFAS)

Some is from a post I made earlier. It also includes some links to help you find specifics as well on some ingredaints/suppliments (doses , side effects and such)

Since I don't know your specific issues/needs - heres some general info.

This is a general recommended supplement amount from a number of sources for good skin and hair health. Hair only is at the bottom, but read all the info so you understand why you may or may not take a supplement and how much. Start at the lowest levels, and slowly work up if needed.

This is not a medical treatment or diagnoses. Please use your judgment in deciding the best option for you personally, and discuss all supplement/medical concerns with your Dr or Pharmacist, Nutritional adviser. Of course best results are always obtained when you can meet your nutrient levels with your diet, and healthy eating. But for many people that is not easy.

One may not need all these supplements, I do not take all of them. But I do take many of them.

Your amounts differ, based on your individual needs and health and lifestyle.

You can read about each individual supplement here, as well as side effects, suggested amounts, treatments, benefits etc. This is a good place to help your fine tune your supplement plans. You can also search on disease and condition, and find supplements just for treatments of your condition, and suggested amounts, and efficiency.

All supplements are within “safe” non-toxic ranges, for normal healthy individuals. However everyone differs and you may find you do better with different or lesser amounts based on your individual needs and body reactions and health concerns. Use common sense. If you feel a supplement it not setting well with your system, adjust dose as needed. This is just a GUIDE.

Adjust for your situation and based on advice from your healthcare provider, who knows your needs.

Healthy Hair, Skin and Nails – overall

Start with a good mulit with 100% of all required nutrients. Most nutrition experts feel “two a day” multis tend to be better then “one a days”. They are better absorbed into the system, and provide a more complete rounded range. Take what you feel is appropriate for your needs.

Keep in mind the RDA amounts in most Multi vitamins are simply the "minimal" suggested amounts one takes to prevent major deficiency diseases such as scurvy, rickets etc. This is not the "suggested" range for good complete full body or optimal health - just the minimum you must have. They are not the toxic "cut off" threshold limit.

Taking doses above the RDA is fine within reason, as long as you don't get to mega dose range on a few select vitamins. The supplements below will not take you into Megadose range if you take as noted. The link at the Kroger site gives you exact "to high" amounts where they apply, which is only on a select few fat soluble vitamins. (A, D, E and K)
Other vitamins are water soluble, which means excess passes in the body’s urine system, assuming you have normal functioning liver and kidneys and drink adequate water amounts.
Mega doses of any one supplement can effect the way the body absorbs and reacts with others, so an overall balance is best. But that does not mean equal amounts of each. Rather a well rounded level of each. Megadoses are doses beyond the suggested ranges I list in each supplement description.

Personal tolerance levels can very based on your age, health, diet, habits, and other conditions, so use common sense. You will see the individual vitamin descriptive links at the healthnote Kroger sites tell you side effects, and what they are. Simply stopping or lowering your dose as needed will resolve the issue. After age 30 the body is less able to assimilate many nutrients, which makes supplementation even more necessary for many people to maintain healthy levels.

I personally like GNC Ultra Mega Women’s Multi. This is available with and without iron, depending on your needs and age.
The GNC Women’s Ultra Mega, has a number of beneficial anti-oxidants added with the standard vitamin blend which makes it a good choice.

The NSI supplements are excellent.

There are many good “hair vitamins” around. Some better then others. I personally feel GNCs Ultra Nourish Hair is one of the best ones, with good supplement levels of needed items, at a cost effective price. If you have a GNC gold card you will save 20% the first week of every month at GNC stores or at on GNC products.

My vitamin base is GNC UltraNourish Hair and Women’s Mega Multi. So I do not add extras of other supplements unless I list that I add more. Adjust based on your needs and other supplements.

Your basic supplements should have the following, or you can add on as needed.

Start with the following base in your Multi:

Vitamin A – 5000 to 10000 IU/daily is good. At least 50% should be from beta carotene, especially if total vit A is higher then 5000 IU. This prevents any risk of “to much” since the body will not convert Beta Carotene to Vit A if unneeded. Synthetic beta-carotene has now been tentivly linked to increased risk of lung cancer in smokers. Until more is known, smokers should avoid beta-carotene supplements.
If you are taking Accutane, avoid any vit A supplements, unless discussed with your Dr.

Vit A prevents Dry flaky skin, reduces lines, wrinkles, anti aging, helps reduce stretchmarks, and acne. Many with acne have low vit A levels. Magadoses are unneeded. Up to 25,000 - 30,000 IU a day is safe. Those over age 65, with liver disease should limit supplements to 15,000 IU per day. 10,000 IU or less is recommended for women who may become pregnant. Topical use is also helpful. I do not add extra.

B Comple- Necessary for healthy skin, hair and nails and all body cells. All are water soluble. They include thiamine (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), pantothenic acid (vitamin B5), pyridoxine (vitamin B6), biotin, folic acid and the cobalamins (vitamin B12). You do not need equal amounts of each. They all perform different functions, and some work together. I do not add extra Bs in my supplients as the two GNC products I take cover them well enough for my needs. Most multis have these, though you can add extra if your health needs them.

B-1, Thiamine - is good for ridding body of toxins, and antioxidants activity. Help all cells to function, good for nerves. Recommended dose 10 - 50 mg up to 100 mg 3 times a day.
B-2, Riboflaven – healthy hair, skin and nails, helps treat acne. 10 to100 mg 3 times a day.
B-3, Niacin – helps with moisture retention, skin exfoliation, and acne. 20-100 mg, Up to 200 mg 3 times a day.
B-5, Pantothenic Acid. Moisture retention in skin, exfoliation, sensitive skin. Treatment doses at 10 to 250 mg 3 times a day.
B-6, Pyridoxine – immune system function, antibody protection. 50 -100 mg 3 times a day."Vitamin B6 was studied by a Pennsylvania doctor and reduced symptoms of acne by 50% -75% in adolescent girls with menstrual difficulties."
B-12, Cyancobalmine – for overall skin health, cell division, Important for vegetarians. Found in meat. If you eat meat usually a suppliment is not needed. 5 -100 mg

Vitamin C – (Asorbic Acid) Collagen production, protects from and helps repair sun damage, reduces under eye circles, aides in wound, skin and acne healing, inhibits melanin production (which cause dark sunspots), helps with eczema, psoriasis. An antioxidant, good topically and internally. Dose ranges are 1000 to 1600 mg - 3 times a day. I recommend a minimum of 1000 mg once a day, if optimal skin health is your goal. I add an extra 1000 mg on with my two GNC supplements. Which gives me a total of 1500 mg throughout the day. If you take over 1000 mg at a time, spread dose throughout day for best absorption.

Vitamin D – antioxidant, anticarcinogen. 400 to 1000 IUs a day recommended. Avoid Mega doses. Can be used topically. I do not add extra.

Vitamin E – rehydrates skin, prevents inflammation, protects from UV damage, reduces rough, dry skin. Helps skin healing. Antioxidant. Also works topically. Avoid Mega doses.
100 to 800 IU a day. At least 400 mg daily for anti aging. I do not add extra.

Vitamin K – helps with under eye circles and healing of bruises, excess bleeding diseases. 65 to 80 mcg per day. Avoid Mega doses. I do not add extra.

Calcium – 1000 to 2000 mg I add extra here, for my personal needs related to blood pressure issues.

Magnesium – 500 - 600 mg I add extra here, for my personal needs related to blood pressure issues. Should be 50% of your calcium dose.

Copper – 2 to 4 mg, very beneficial to skin, scarring and healing. I do not add extra, as my two GNC supplements give me 4 mg.

Alpha-lipic Acid (ALA) - Antioxidant, works well with other antioxidants giving an combined “synergy effect” (causing each antioxidant to function better when combined, then each one does singly) Works topically or orally. 30 to 200 mg daily. The "R" form is more concentrated, so 100 mg of ALA-R is equal to 200 mg of ALA. I add extra

Chromium – Helps fight acne and reduce skin infections. Stabilizes blood sugar. Many with chronic acne have unstable blood sugar. 150 - 200 mcg daily. I do not add extra

Selenium - coupled with vitamins A and E, can also reduce the severity of acne and lessen scarring. 200 mcg. In my multi, I do not add extra.

Zinc – helps promote skin healing, reduces scarring, and acne, treats eczema, and psoriasis. 60% of acne sufferers notice improvement with added zinc. A lack of zinc has been shown to increase the production of male hormones, which can cause acne. An antioxidant. 7 – 30 mg daily. I do not add extra

These will give a good basic foundation for your program. From there you can optionally add on other individual supplements below as needed for your situation.


Optional but recommended Add-on Supplements

In most cases a multi alone will not give enough extras for optimal skin, hair and nail health. This is especially true after age 30 when the body is less able to maintain nutritional status from foods, and less able to absorb nutrients. Many systems decline with age, that can be helped with supplementation.

MSM methylsulfonylmethane – 1000 to 4000 mgs total a day. Divide into 1000 mg doses or less for best absorption. Ultra Norish Hair contains 500 mg. (I add 2500 to 4000 mg extra)

Silica – antioxidant, helps skin , hair, joints, good for soft shiny hair. Ultra Nourish hair contains 1 mg. You can add an addition 500 mg/day for soft shiny hair. Often found in Horsetail supplements.

Omega 6, GMA, Gamma Linolenic Acid - one of the important EFAs or Essential Fatty Acids. Helps reduce PMS, clears up eczema, helps skin glow, minimizes finelines, reduces cholesterol, helps with metabolisium, helps dry skin hair and nails, good for straw-like hair, or over oily hair and skin, an anti-inflammatory, arthritis aide, and blood thinner, and blood vessel dilator. It can be found in Evening Primrose Oil, Borage Oil, or Black Current Seed oil. Borage oil is the richest and recommended source of GMA.
I take 500 mg Borage oil daily. Recommended ranges are 500 to 3000 mg daily.

Omega 3, Fish Oils – contain eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA); both are omega-3 fatty acids. Most fish oil supplements are 18% EPA and 12% DHA, or a total of 30% omega-3.

EPA and DHA are anti-inflammatory, and help with many disease conditions, both mental and physical. They help balance the Omega 6, which are found in vegetable oils, If miss balanced one can have difficulty with stress and anxiety.
Both Omegas are needed, because the body needs both together to function well.

The are necessary for overall health of body, skin and hair. Can help body produce less oil for those with over active oil production in skin and scalp. Treats acne, eczema, and psoriasis.

Research published in the Journal of American Academy of Dermatology shows that Essential Fatty Acids (EFA) can help hormonal imbalances that lead to acne, since people with certain forms of acne have been shown to have deficiencies of EFA.

One should take at least 1000 to 5000 mg a day or more, depending on needs. I take 5000 a day, because I have borderline high blood pressure, and oily skin. I take three 1700 mg caps a day. You can take them together or spread out. If you have fish burps – take them in lesser amounts with meals, gradually working up to higher doses. The “burps” usually stop after two weeks.

Flaxseed oil is a source of Alpha-linolenic acid, which can be converted by the body into EPA and DHA. But the body can only convert to a limited extent, and you get much less actual EPA and DHA per pill. So I personally recommend Fish oil for best results.

For those who wish to replace fish oil with flaxseed oil, research suggests taking up to ten times as much ALA as EPA.20 Typically, this means 7.2 grams of flaxseed oil equals 1 gram of fish oil. However, even if taken in such high amounts, flaxseed oil may not have the same effects as fish oil. But, flaxseed oil will not cause a fishy-smelling burp (a possible side effect of fish oil).

Omega 9 oils -
Most people don’t need Omega 9, we usually have more then enough of that in our body already. Also found in olive, canola/rapeseed oil, mustard seed and wallflower seed.

Omega 9s are not Essential fatty acids. Because the human body can create them from a normal diet, and they are not lacking in most diets. Supplimentation is not needed on Omega 9.

Some vegatarians may be short in these, but other then that most of us are fine in this area.

It’s the 3 and 6 we are usually short on. Those are not all created in the human body, so we need to supplement them through diet or oral supplements. (we can create some, just not all) They are Essential Fatty Acids, meaning we can’t create them, and need them for healthy function.

Omega 3s and 6s come from fish, shellfish, flaxseed/linseed, soya oil, canola oil (rapeseed) hemp oil, chia seed, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, leafy green vegetables, and walnuts.

Biotin – a water soluble B vitamin. A great booster of hair and nail growth. Also effective for acne, and slow healing skin. It also helps for stronger hair. Dermatitus, depression, hair loss, anemia, nausea, stomach and intestinal disease, alcoholics, can all benefit from increased Biotin.
Levels vary based on “your” needs. Suggested ranges are 1000 to 5000 mcg daily. 2500 mcg daily is needed for stronger nails. To much Biotin can cause acne, so bump dose down if you get breakouts within one to two weeks of increasing doses. Ultra Nourish Hair contains 1200 mcg of Biotin. Mega Multi contains 300 mcg. I take an additional 1500 of Biotin a day. (3000 total)

Protein – You need it for strong hair and healthy skin. Protein will help your entire body. One protein shake daily, of 22 gr of protein is an excellent place to start.


Benificial Antioxidants.

Some of the supplements above that are normally a part of standard multi vitamins are also antioxidants. Antioxidants help the body deal with cell damage related to stress, UV exposure, poor lifestyle habits, poor diet, aging, harsh skincare products etc. By help the tissues handle this type of stress better, the skin ages better and looks younger for longer.

Following are Antioxidants recommending by many skincare experts to provide Anti-aging benefits.

GNC Womens Ultra Mega carries some of these, though one may prefer higher doses based on individual needs.

NSI Vegetable and Berry Blend products will add many of these.

Tocotrienols, part of the Vitamin E family. 35-75 mg.
Lutien – 20 mg
Lycopene – 5 mg
Grape Seed Extract – 50 mg
Vegetable Extracts – 1000 – 2000 mg
Melatonin – 1 to 3 mg at bedtime for sleep issues


Other Anti Aging supplements commonly recommended.
Not usually in multi vitamins.

Ginkgo Biloba – 60 mg daily (brain and nerve function)
N-acetyl-carnitine – 0.5 to 1000 mg (brain and nerve function)
Choline/Inositol – 1000 – 2000 mg (brain and nerve function)

Saw Palmetto Oil - reduces DHT production which is related to hair thinning and hair loss. 80 to 160 mg.
Glucosamine Sulfate – skin and joint health 500 to 1500 mg
Chondroitin Sulfate – skin, muscle and joint health. 400 to 1200 mg


Hair Health:

If your main concern is hair health, focus on the following:

A Good Multi Vitamin One that you can tolerate, that meets your needs on the basics.
Protein – at least 22gr of protein a day added to diet in a drink or protein rich foods and cereals, soymilk, diary (Kaschi Go Lean Crunch, Special K High Protein etc) Helps hair growth speed, thickness, strength
Biotin – growth speed
MSM – slows shed, speeds growth, increases shine and thickness
Silica – shine and softness
EFAs (Esscential Fatty Acids/oils) for attachment issues, helps dry straw like hair, softer hair, less dry scalp

A good multi, MSM and Biotin will do the most. Though Protein is very important, and based on your needs, you may need some of the other options listed. Many women diet to loose weight and cut their protein levels to low for good hair and muscle growth.

Results on slower shedding usually start at two weeks, by 6 to 8 weeks you should notice longer lashs, faster growth of scalp hair.

Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:11 am      Reply with quote
Honestly not a lot of really good products for that. You can temporarily a;lter the appearance of cellulite, but getting rid of it is much more then, diet, suppliments creams etc.

85% of women over age 18 will suffer from this, no mater what their diet, what their supplements, weight or muscle level is. Lowering body fat content helps some, but you can have super low body fat and still have cellulite, because you still will always have some fats stores. Which you must have to remain healthy.

It is related to the way a women’s muscle fibers connect to the skin and deeper tissues. Which is in longer thin stretchy bands, more pliable then a mans, and allows fat to be stored differently then in men, and makes it visible between the fibers..

This info from Paula Begoun will help sort it out some. It gives basic info on common ingredients also, and products reviews. The reviews may not help a lot, but the general ingredient info, and body info is very good.

Caution Cellulite: Bumpy Road Ahead
A Special Report by Paula Begoun

Cellulite is a complicated and controversial topic with no agreement among researchers as to exactly what it is physiologically or which treatments, if any, can have a positive effect. The only two things about cellulite everyone agrees on are what it looks like and that if you have it, you hate it and you want to get rid of it.

Regrettably, most of us (women that is) have it to one degree or another. According to statistics, and this is really shocking, cellulite shows up on the thighs of more than 85% of females past the age of eighteen regardless of ancestry, although it is more common for Caucasian and Asian women. To make matters worse, for women, cellulite represents stored, hard to metabolize fat that is interdependent on estrogen. Ironically, weight isn’t part of the problem. Rather, any amount of fat (and we all need some of it in our bodies) can show up as cellulite on women’s thighs. (Source: Cosmetics & Toiletries magazine, October 2004, page 49)

Despite being a completely benign condition, much like wrinkles, cellulite is a major beauty concern of women worldwide with corresponding myths and deceptions taking the place of fact and reason. This means the cosmetics industry and lots of doctors and estheticians want to sell you products or provide treatments (particularly expensive ones) claiming to slim, trim, tone, and de-bump your thighs. Everything from loofahs, miracle ingredients, special washcloths, herbal supplements, vitamins, minerals, bath liquids, rubberized pants, brushes, rollers, body wraps, and toning lotions to electrical muscle stimulation, vibrating machines, inflatable hip-high pressurized boots, hormone or enzyme injections, and massage have been claimed to be successful cellulite treatments. Yet, as the anti-cellulite market increases, research regarding efficacy remains at a bare minimum and is often obscured by self-serving studies from those who peddle these cures. Sadly, the lure of these supposed remedies is hard to fend off because fighting cellulite is an uphill battle. For lots of women the mere hope or illusion that something may work is a powerful temptation, and that weakness is something the cosmetics industry counts on and exploits to the max. (Source: Journal of Cosmetic Science, November 2005, pages 379-393)

Myth Busting“Trying to navigate and smooth out cellulite fact from fiction isn’t easy but there is a small amount of good news: there are options that may make a difference. The bad news, is that even the treatments that have some potential of working (and I say potential of working very carefully) rarely live up to the claims asserted, but improvement as opposed to merely wasting your money is definitely a turn for the better. A great way to start is to straighten out some popular myths about cellulite:”

Men don’t get cellulite: To some extent that’s true. Physiologically, women are far more prone to accumulating fat on the thighs and hips while men gain weight in the abdominal area. Plus, for women, the connective tissue beneath the skin has more stretch and is vulnerable to disruption, which is the perfect environment for developing cellulite. Some men do get cellulite—just statistically not as much as women. (Source: Journal of Cosmetic Science, March-April 2005, pages 105-120)

Drinking water helps: If water could change skin structure and reduce fat I assure you no one would have cellulite, or would be overweight for that matter. Drinking water probably is beneficial (although there is really no research showing how much is healthy versus unhealthy) but there is no research showing water consumption will impact fat anywhere on your body, let alone the dimples on your thighs.
Arguments for high water intake are generally based on the assumption that because our bodies consist mostly of water (50-70% of body weight, about forty-two liters) and our blood, muscles, brain, and bones are made up mainly of water (85%, 80%, 75%, and 25%, respectively), we therefore need at least eight 8-ounce glasses of water each day. But assumptions aren’t science and this one is a non-sequitur; it is similar to arguing that since our cars run on gasoline, they always need a full tank to run efficiently. (Source: American Journal of Physiology—Regulatory, Integrative, and Comparative Physiology, November 2002, pages 993-1004)

Water retention causes cellulite: It’s ironic that low water intake is considered a possible cause of cellulite, and the polar opposite—retaining too much water—is thought to be a factor as well. There is lots of speculation of how water retention can affect cellulite but there is no actual research supporting this notion. Further, fat cells actually contain only about 10% water, so claiming to eliminate excess water won’t make a difference and any measurable result would be transient at best. It is true that water retention can make you look bloated and feel like you’ve gained weight, but water itself doesn’t impact fat or the appearance of cellulite. (Source: Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, November 2003, pages 817-821)

Eating a specialized diet can help: A healthy diet that encourages weight loss may help your entire body look better. However, because weight in and of itself is not a cause of cellulite, dieting won’t change the skin structure of your thighs, which causes the dimpled contours to show. For some people cellulite is made worse by the accumulation of extra fat. In those cases, weight reduction may decrease the total area and depth of cellulite. (Source: Clinical Dermatology, July-August 2004, pages 303-309)

Cellulite is different from fat on the rest of the body: Theories abound about how cellulite differs from regular body fat. However, few studies show how cellulite clumps differently than other fat on your body. But overall, most researchers feel cellulite is just fat, plain and simple. Besides, even if cellulite is different in how it congregates, what you can and can’t do about fat on any part of the body remains the same. (Source:

Exercise can help: Exercise helps almost every system in the human body, but it won’t necessarily impact the appearance of cellulite. Exercise doesn’t improve skin structure and it can’t affect localized areas of fat. In other words, you can’t spot reduce fat accumulation in a specific area. (Source: British Journal of Plastic Surgery, April 2004, pages 222-227)
Detoxifying the body reduces the appearance of cellulite: Detoxifying the body for consumers has taken on the meaning of purging it of pollutants or any other problem substances in the environment or in the foods we eat. In terms of the way this concept has been mass marketed, there is little research showing credible efficacy as to whether or not detoxification of the body is even possible. However, “detoxifying” the body as it is used in the scientific community describes the process of reducing cellular damage primarily by antioxidants or enzymes that prevent certain abnormal or undesirable cell functions from taking place. There is no doubt this is helpful for the body. Whether or not this reduces cellulite is completely unknown because skin structure and fat accumulation are not caused by toxins in the environment. Furthermore, there are no studies showing toxins of any kind prevent fat from being broken down. (Sources: Journal of Endotoxin Research, April 2005, pages 69-84 and Journal of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, May 2003, pages 258-264)

What We Do Know
There are three leading theories about cellulite formation:
1. Women have unique skin structure on their thighs, which causes cellulite to easily form. 2. The connective tissue layers on the thigh are too weak or thin to maintain a smooth appearance—allowing fat contour to show through. 3. Vascular changes and possible inflammatory conditions may be to blame. (Source: Journal of Cosmetic Laser Therapy, December 2004, pages 181-185; Journal of Applied Physiology, April 2002, pages 1611–1618; and Skin Research and Technology, May 2, 2002, pages 118-124.

Most cellulite products come in the form of lotions and creams with a vast array of either exotic-sounding or lab-synthesized ingredients. Beyond topical products there are devices such as endermologie and microdermabrasion, medical treatments such as lasers and mesotherapy (a procedure involving repeated injections, which is claimed to break down fat).

Lotions, Creams, and Extracts Galore
As far as skin-care products for the body are concerned, the litany of options is mesmerizing. Yet there is almost no uniformity between formulas. It would appear, if the claims are to be believed, a wide variety of unrelated plant extracts can deflate or break down fat and/or restructure skin. Looking at the research, however, most articles suggest there is little hope that anything rubbed on the skin can change fat deposits or radically improve the appearance of cellulite.

The hope that botanicals have the answer is odd because not one study points to what concentration of an ingredient needs to be in a formulation, what physiochemical characteristics particular to each active ingredient need to be present, or whether or not these ingredients retain any standardized properties between batches. (Sources: Dermatologic Surgery, July 2005, pages 866-872 and The European Journal of Dermatology, December 2000, pages 596–603)

All of the following products (and lots more) are claimed to reduce or fight the appearance of cellulite:

Avon Cellu-Sculpt Anti-Cellulite Slimming Treatment ($16 for 6.7 ounces) contains caffeine, Ginkgo biloba leaf extract, Bupleurum falcatum extract, Lagerstroemia indica extract, carnitine, Panax ginseng root extract, Malva sylvestris extract, Inulin, xymenynic acid, palmitoyl pentapeptide-3 as the blend of ingredients aimed at fighting cellulite.

Biotherm Celluli-Choc Dimpled Skin Smoothing Gel Skin-Enhancer ($46 for 6.76 ounces) is mostly water and alcohol along with caffeine, Cola nitida seed extract, Ginkgo biloba leaf extract, and miniscule amounts of Terminalia sericea extract, Vitreoscilla ferment, Theobroma cacao extract, and Panax ginseng root extract.

Bliss Labs High Thighs Cellulite-Fighting Serum ($35 for 8.2 ounces) contains hydrolyzed Ulva lactuca extract, Terminalia sericea extract, Visnaga vera extract, Plectranthus barbatus extract, Porphyrydium cruentum extract, and retinyl palmitate along with a long list of irritating plant extracts (including menthol and eucalyptus oil) to fight your cellulite.

Clarins Total Body Lift Stubborn Cellulite Control ($57 for 7 ounces) is mostly water, alcohol, and silicones along with some acrylates and slip agents. It also contains menthol (a skin irritant) so you think it’s doing something on your skin. It does contain caffeine, Atractyloides lancea root extract, Baccharis genistelloides extract, Uncaria tomentosa extract, Hortonia floribunda leaf extract, Geranium robertianum extract, and Agrimonia eupatoria leaf extract as the ingredients that are supposed to help reduce stubborn cellulite. The amounts of these are miniscule so their ability to impact skin in any way is remote at best.

Estee Lauder Body Performance Slim Shape Anti-Cellulite/Anti-Fluid Advanced Visible Contouring Serum ($52.50 for 6.7 ounces) contains mostly water, alcohol, silicones, thickening agents, and lots and lots of plant extracts in the hope they will work on your cellulite. Several interesting antioxidants, ingredients that mimic skin structure, and some cell communicating ingredients fill out the list, which could have made it a very good moisturizer for dry skin.
But with alcohol as the second ingredient and menthol on the list that’s unlikely to be the case. Some of the exotic offerings meant to convince you they can reduce cellulite are St. Paul’s wort extract, acetyl carnitine Hcl, Santalum album seed extract, retinyl palmitate, caffeine, creatine, adenosine phosphate, Coleus barbatus extract, Paullinia cupana seed extract, palmitoyl tetrapeptide-3, and hesperidin methyl chalcone. The notion that these ingredients will alter cellulite is wishful thinking.

L’Oreal Dermo-Expertise Sublime Slim Day Anti-Cellulite ($13.95 for 6.7 ounces) is mostly alcohol, water, and a lot of fragrance with caffeine, escin, disodium rutinyl disulfate, Ginkgo biloba leaf extract, carnitine, Pisum sativum, and Coenzyme A as the ingredients meant to impact your cellulite.
Murad Firm and Tone Serum ($65 for 6.75 ounces) contains a “who’s who” of both skin-beneficial and skin-detrimental ingredients. Firm and Tone Serum claims to minimize body imperfections ranging from cellulite to stretch marks and sagging skin, leaving you “proud to show off.” I wouldn’t bank on this water- and alcohol-based concoction for any amount of body perfection—especially when you consider the amount of irritation your skin will experience from the peppermint, menthol, and several fragrant, volatile oils that have no established benefit for skin. Last but not least, this product also contains esculin, a component of horse chestnut, which is considered toxic and is not recommended for topical application by some experts. (Source: Ellenhorn’s Medical Toxicology: Diagnoses and Treatment of Human Poisoning, 2nd Edition. Baltimore, MD: Williams & Wilkins, 1997)
Neutrogena Anti-Cellulite Treatment, Retinol Formula ($19.99 for 5 ounces) contains less alcohol than most, but there is still enough to warrant caution. Other than that, it contains caffeine, Fucus vesiculosus extract, and retinol as the active ingredients meant to deal with your cellulite.

N.V. Perricone M.D. Cosmeceuticals Alpha Lipoic Acid Body Toning Lotion SPF 15 ($75 for 6 ounces) should be avoided because this SPF 15 sunscreen doesn’t contain the UVA protecting ingredient of titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, or avobenzone. If a company can’t figure out how to protect your skin from sun damage, how can you trust them to reduce the appearance of cellulite on your thighs? Nonetheless, this overly aromatic product containing several problematic fragrant plant oils is just a moisturizer with a few good water-binding ingredients and antioxidants. There is no research showing any of these ingredients combat cellulite.

Osmotic Lipoduction Body Perfecting Complex ($175 for 6.8 ounces). This is one of the most expensive anti-cellulite treatments I’ve found. And considering the steep price, you’d think investing in it would net the positive results this product’s makers assert it delivers. Alas, this isn’t true as there is nothing in this “complex” that will even slightly alter the dimpled appearance of cellulite. This product contains mostly water and alcohol along with caffeine, Bupleurum falcatum extract, soy phospholipids, and Forskohli root extract (see Plectranthus barbatus extract on page 6). This also includes spearmint oil to make the skin tingle so you think the product is doing something. Even if you’re still curious, this simple formulation isn’t as interesting and contains many of the same ingredients as Avon’s Cellu-Sculpt previously reviewed.

Remede Slender Active Amplifier ($55 for 4.2 ounces) is a mostly water- and alcohol-based moisturizer, which in and of itself, makes it a bit of an oxymoron. It also includes decyloxazolidinone, Terminalia sericea extract, Visnaga vera extract, Plectranthus barbatus extract, and Aurantium amara along with several fragrant plant extracts that are particularly irritating or sensitizing for skin.

Sisley Paris Phyto Sculptural Anti-Cellulite ($141 for 5.2 ounces) contains mostly water, citrus extract, plant oil, thickeners, Ruscus aculeatus root extract, grape leaf extract, horse chestnut extract, and Crataegus monogina flower extract as the “active” extracts that are supposed to impact cellulite. There is nothing in this intensely fragranced product that will change a dimple anywhere on your body. The only thing anti-cellulite about this product is the name.
The potential effectiveness of some of the ingredients contained in the previously-mentioned products is reviewed in the upcoming pages.

A Bevy of Anti-Cellulite Ingredients

Agrimonia eupatoria leaf extract
Research shows this plant extract inhibits the hepatitis b virus and has antioxidant properties. Whether or not it has a benefit when applied topically is not known. There is no research showing it to be effective for cellulite. (Sources: Phytotherapy Research, April 2005, pages 355-358 and Journal of Ethnopharmacology, January 2005, pages 145-150)

This pharmaceutical ingredient is found in prescription bronchodilators—medications designed to open blocked air passageways in lungs—and also is found in some cellulite lotions and creams. Aminophylline gained notoriety as an ingredient in cellulite creams as a result of a study published in Obesity Research (November 1995, Supplemental pages 561S–568S). However, the validity of this research was called into question because one of its authors was marketing an aminophylline cream being sold at the time, and thus was not considered an objective investigator. Also, the number of participants in the study was small, and most also were dieting and exercising at the same time they were applying the aminophylline cream. (Source: Annals of Pharmacotherapy, March 1996, pages 292–293)

Doubt about aminophylline’s value also was revealed in research published in Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery (September 1999, pages 1110–1114), which described a double-blind study that compared the effectiveness of three different treatments for cellulite on three separate groups of women. One investigated the twice-daily application of aminophylline cream compared with a placebo; another the twice-weekly treatment using endermologie (a machine rolled over the skin’s surface, which has been claimed to get rid of cellulite) on one leg and nothing on the other; and a third combining endermologie on both legs with the same cream regimen used by the first group. “No statistical difference existed in measurements between legs for any of the treatment groups… [Even] The best subjective assessment, by the patients themselves, revealed that only 3 of 35 aminophylline-treated legs and 10 of 35 [e]ndermologie-treated legs [felt] their cellulite appearance improved.” There is no other research showing this to be helpful and the risk of absorption and bronchial involvement when applied topically remains unclear.

Atractyloydes lancea root extract
Also known as Chinese Thistle Daisy, this root extract is used in Chinese and Japanese alternative medicine for angiogenesis (the formation of new blood vessels) in type-2 diabetes because it contains beta-eudesmol. Some of its other components have been shown to have anti-inflammatory properties as well. Whether or not this can be of benefit when the entire extract is applied topically is unknown. (Sources: Yajugaku Zasshi, The Pharmaceutical Society of Japan, March 2006, pages 133-143; European Journal of Pharmacology, April 2005, pages 105-115; and Planta Medica, July 2001, pages 437-442)

Bupleurum falcatum extract
A plant used in Chinese medicine for a variety of ailments ranging from the common cold to liver problems. Some research has shown this extract to have anti-tumor, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant properties. Whether or not these benefits can be delivered to skin in a lotion or cream is unknown. (Sources:; British Journal of Pharmacology, December 2000, pages 1285-1293; Planta Medica, June 1998, pages 404-407; and Life Sciences, August 1998, pages 1147-1156)

Since 1971 when the first Starbucks opened in my hometown of Seattle, I have been a coffee lover. And over the years I’ve developed a passion for Grande and Venti Lattes. I would be thrilled to learn that this has somehow helped my thighs, but alas, this is far from the case. Separate from my own anecdotal experience, caffeine is one of the more typical ingredients to show up in cellulite creams and lotions. There are two reasons for this. The first is caffeine’s distant relationship to aminophylline. Aminophylline is a modified form of theophylline (Source: Yale New Haven Health Library, Alternative/Complimentary Medicine,, and caffeine contains theophylline (Source: Progress in Neurobiology, December 2002, pages 377–392). There is no research to prove or disprove that theophylline can affect cellulite. However, researchers have disproved aminophyilline’s impact on cellulite. The second reason caffeine may show up in cellulite products stems from research showing it to have benefit for weight loss. But that’s only when you drink it, not when you rub it on your thighs.

There are only two studies showing caffeine to have benefit for reducing cellulite. One was conducted by Johnson & Johnson, which owns the RoC and Neutrogena brands, both of which sell cellulite creams that contain caffeine. The other was conducted by cosmetics ingredients manufacturers that sell anti-cellulite compounds (Source: Journal of Cosmetic Science, July-August 2002, pages 209–218). There is no other independent research showing caffeine provides any benefit for treating cellulite.

Caffeine does have potential as an antioxidant, so it isn’t a wasted ingredient in skin-care products. It’s just not one that can reduce the appearance of cellulite. (Sources: BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine, March 2006,; Bioscience, Biotechnology, and Biochemistry, November, 2005, pages 2219-2223; Obesity Research, July 2005, pages 1195-1204; and Sports Medicine, November 2001, pages 785-807)

A naturally occurring amino acid, deficiencies of this small but essential component can result in muscle loss and a multitude of other problems. Research abounds for carnitine, especially acetyl-L-carnitine, which is considered to have more bioavailabilty in terms of its effect on aging and brain function. How this amino acid affects skin when applied topically is unknown.

Coleus barbatus extract
See Plectranthus barbatus extract reviewed on page 6.

Disodium rutinyl disulfate
No research shows this antioxidant as having any impact on cellulite.

Derived from horse chestnut (Aesculus hippocastanum), this ingredient has been prescribed as an oral supplement to reduce some symptoms of chronic vein insufficiency, such as varicose veins, pain, tiredness, tension, swelling in the legs, itching, and edema. However, because horse chestnut contains significant amounts of the toxin esculin, it can be lethal and other experts recommend not using it. When applied topically, however, there is research showing that a gel containing 2% escin can improve circulation. Results from another study showed a reduction in inflammation in sport-injury when escin was combined with heparin (a mucopolysaccharide used as an anti-clotting medication), and a form of salicylic acid (diethylammonium salicylate). Escin is also a potent antioxidant. As a skin-care ingredient escin clearly has a place, but as for improving cellulite that’s another story. While it may seem logical that blood flow and cellulite are related the research just isn’t there to support the notion, or your thighs. Plus, cellulite products contain far less of this ingredient than the amount used in the studies. (Sources: British Journal of Sports Medicine, 36 June 2002, pages 183-188; Angiology, March 2000, pages 197-205;; Archives of Dermatology, November 1998, pages 1356-1360; and International Journal of Cosmetic Science, December 1999, page 437)

Some cellulite creams have included glycolic or lactic acid (AHAs) or scrubs in an effort to somehow exfoliate away bumpy skin texture on the thighs. Theoretically, AHAs come the closest to having the potential for reducing the appearance of cellulite. If cellulite is a problem with skin structure, applying ingredients that help to improve it, should make a difference. There are a number of studies demonstrating the effectiveness of AHAs for stimulating collagen synthesis and improving the overall structure of skin. What is important to recognize is that if AHAs can help, you don’t need something labeled as a “cellulite cream.” Any well-formulated AHA gel, lotion, or cream will work. (Sources: Journal of Dermatology, January 2006, pages 16-22; Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, April 2005, pages 1156-1162; Experimental Dermatology, December 2003, pages 57-63; and American Journal of Clinical Dermatology, November-December 2000, pages 369–374)

In terms of scrubs, there is absolutely no research showing these have any impact on cellulite.

Ginkgo biloba leaf extract
Research shows this potent antioxidant helps improve blood flow. Whether or not blood flow changes anything about cellulite is unknown. (Sources: Medical Hypotheses, March 2006, pages 1152-1156; Journal of Burn Care and Rehabilitation, November-December 2005, pages 515-524; and Journal of Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Analysis, February 2005, pages 287-295; and Planta Medica, November 2004, pages 1052-1057)

Is a flavonoid found in various plants such as citruses and evening primrose oil. It has potential as a potent antioxidant—reducing the effects of sun damage and in the prevention of some cancers. It is also taken orally to improve circulation and to strengthen capillaries. There is no published research showing it combats cellulite. (Sources: Photochemistry and Photobiology, September 2003, pages 256-261; Phytotherapy Research, December 2001, pages 655-669; and Anticancer Research, July-August 1999, pages 3237-3241)

Hortonia floribunda leaf extract
No research shows this plant as having any benefit for skin although it is used as a mosquito repellant in Sri Lanka.

Lagerstroemia indica extract
Also known as Crepe Myrtle, there is no published research showing it to be effective for the skin in general.

Malva sylvestris extract
Also known as Blue Mallow Flower, this extract may have some anti-inflammatory and soothing properties for the skin, as well as some potential antioxidant benefits. (Sources:, International Journal of Food Sciences and Nutrition, February 2004, pages 67-74 and Journal of Ethnopharmacology, January 2004, pages 135-143)

Panax ginseng root extract
This root extract may have potent antioxidant properties (potentially anti-cancer) and may promote wound healing. Whether or not it can have an impact on cellulite is unknown. (Sources: Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, April 2006, pages 2558-2562; Phytotherapy Research, January 2005, pages 65-71; Archives of Pharmacal Research, February 2002, pages 71-76 and Cancer Letters, March 2000, pages 41-4Cool

Paullinia cupana seed extract
Also called guarana, it is used primarily in herbal supplements and beverages as a stimulant. In animal studies using mice, it has been shown to affect fat metabolism. There is also research showing that repeated use of guarana can result in persistent increases in heart rate and blood pressure as well as unfavorable actions on glucose and potassium homeostasis. Such effects could be detrimental in persons with hypertension, atherosclerosis, or glucose intolerance—conditions that are strongly associated with obesity. Guarana is sometimes used in cellulite products because of its theophylline and caffeine components. Research has shown it can be absorbed into the skin. Whether or not topical application can affect fat metabolism or have other associated health risks in humans is not known. (Sources: International Journal of Pharmaceutics, April 2006,; Food and Chemical Toxicology, June 2006, Pages 862-867; Clinical Nutrition, December 20005, pages 1019-1028; and Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics, June 2005, pages 560-571)

Pisum sativum
The Latin name for the garden pea, and while it does have antioxidant activity there is no research showing if it can reduce cellulite. (Source: Phytotherapy Research, October 2003, pages 987-1000)

Plectranthus barbatus extract
Also known as Forskolin or Coleus barbatus there is information showing this herb to have cardiovascular and bronchial benefits. There is a small amount of research demonstrating Forskolin can stimulate lipolysis in these cells and also inhibits glucose uptake by fat cells when taken as a supplement. However, there is no information showing this effect on fat cells when applied topically. (Sources: and Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, About Herbs,

Porphyridium cruentum extract
This extract is derived from a type of red algae. There is research showing components of red algae contain the omega-3 fatty acid eicosapentaenoic, the omega-6 fatty acid arachidonic acid, and other skin-friendly ingredients such as polysaccharides. Whether or not the entire red algae extract provides benefit on skin is not known. (Sources: Bioseparation, September 2000, pages 299-306 and Free Radical Biology and Medicine, February 1996, pages 241-249)

If the layers of connective tissue beneath the skin on the thighs are indeed the main cause of cellulite (along with excess or poorly formed fat deposits) then improving skin structure should, theoretically, make a difference. There is growing evidence proving this to be the case. Retinol (the entire vitamin A molecule) is one of the ingredients known to help improve skin structure. Of all the ingredients to look for in a cellulite product this should be at the top of the list. However, most cellulite products contain teeny amounts of retinol (at best) and are often in packaging that won’t keep this air-sensitive ingredient stable. One other point: Johnson & Johnson has a study showing the combination of retinol, caffeine, and ruscogenine can reduce the appearance of cellulite. Of course J&J-owned companies RoC and Neutrogena both sell cellulite products with that combination of ingredients. (Sources: Journal of Cosmetic Science, July-August 2001, pages 199-210; Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology & Venereology, July 2000, page 251; American Journal of Clinical Dermatology, November-December 2000, pages 369-374)

An extract from the plant butcher’s broom, some research has shown it to be effective when taken orally for improving the function of veins and capillaries. Whether or not it has benefit topically for cellulite isn’t supported by independent research. (Sources:; and Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, June 2000, pages 539-549)

Santalum album seed extract
Is the Latin name for sandalwood extract and is used in cosmetics as a fragrance. It can have antioxidant properties and there is research showing it minimizes herpes breakouts. It also can be a skin irritant or sensitizer. (Sources: Journal of Ethnopharmacology, July 2000, Pages 23-43 and European Journal of Cancer Prevention, August 1997, pages 399-401)

Terminalia sericea extract
This extract has anti-inflammatory and antibacterial properties, but there is no research showing it to have any effect on the appearance of cellulite. (Sources: Journal of Ethnopharmacoloy, February 2005, pages 43-47 and European Journal of Pharmaceutics and Biopharmaceutics, March 2003, Pages 191-198)

Ulva lactuca extract
An extract from the plant known as sea lettuce, it has some anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties for skin (Source: Phytotherapy Research, December 2000, pages 641–643). However, there is no research showing it to have any benefit for cellulite reduction.

Uncaria tomentosa extract
Also known as Cat’s Claw, there is some research showing it to be an effective anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. There is also some evidence it may have cardiovascular effects by dilating peripheral blood vessels. It may also kill cancer cells without affecting normal cells (Source: and Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 2000, pages 115-126). Conversely, there is research showing it may increase the viability of some cancer cells. (Source: Pediatric Blood and Cancer, January 2006, pages 94-9Cool. Research showing it to have antioxidant or DNA-repairing benefits when applied topically has been presented by the Lauder Corporation. (Source: Phytotherapy Research, March 2006, pages 178-183)

Visnaga vera extract
Also known as khella, when taken orally there is concern that it may cause nausea, dizziness, constipation, headache, itching, and insomnia. Khella may cause liver problems for some people. There is also some concern that it might cause photosensitivity because it contains khellin and furocoumarin. (Source:

Mesotherapy is a procedure, which has been claimed to dissolve fat from the repeated injection (and I mean lots and lots of injections) of various substances into the fat layers of skin. Mesotherapy actually got its start 50 years ago in France through the work of a physician who was trying to find a cure for deafness (Source: Dermatological Times, December 1, 2004). From there it gained notoriety in the United States after singer Roberta Flack appeared on ABC’s 20/20 claiming mesotherapy helped her lose 40 pounds (although she said she also dieted and exercised, what stood out for lots of people was the part that didn’t involve diet and exercise).

Some of the substances being injected are homeopathic and some are pharmaceutical. Strangely, there isn’t necessarily any consistency, and the cocktail of ingredients can vary from practitioner to practitioner. The fact that the material being injected isn’t consistent and not everyone discloses exactly what they are using makes this treatment very hard to evaluate. The most typically used substance in mesotherapy is phosphatidylcholine, but it can also be combined with deoxycholate. A handful of studies have shown that this can successfully reduce fat when injected into the skin, with one study demonstrating this for the undereye area. Theoretically, the reduction of subcutaneous fat may be caused by inflammatory-mediated cell death and resorption.

However, mesotherapy isn’t without risk. One study explained, “Side effects included burning, erythema, and swelling at the injection site. At follow-up averaging 9 months, 50% of patients reported persistence of benefit, 20% experienced some fading, and 30% [received no benefit at all].” It also concluded that “Larger studies evaluating long-term safety and efficacy of phosphatidylcholine for cosmetic purposes are warranted.” Another study states, “Until further studies are performed, patients considering mesotherapy for cellulite must be aware that the substances currently being injected to treat this cosmetically disturbing, but medically benign, condition have not been thoroughly evaluated for safety or efficacy.”

Finding out if this would work for you isn’t inexpensive. Mesotherapy costs $300-$500 for each treatment and about ten to fifteen sessions are recommended, so it ends up being more expensive than liposuction. (Sources: Journal of Cosmetic Laser Therapy, December 2005, pages 147-154 and March 2005, pages 17-19; Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, November 2005, pages 1127-1130; Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, July 2003, pages 162–170; and Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, July–August 2003, pages 315–318)

Searching on the Internet, you would think endermologie was nothing less than a cure for cellulite. Physicians, spas, salons, and just about anybody else with the money to buy one of these machines want you to believe in their exaggerated, over-the-top claims. Developed in France in the 1980s, the FDA approved this high-powered, handheld massage tool in 1998. It consists of two motorized rollers with a suction device that is moved over the skin, somewhat like a mix between an old-time, wet-clothes ringer and a vacuum cleaner. (By the way, European women are confounded by cellulite, too, even though they tend not to have the weight problems Americans do. But remember, weight and cellulite are not directly related.)

While claims abound, legally those advertising endermologie treatment are only permitted to promote it for “temporarily improving the appearance of cellulite.” Of course, somehow the word “temporarily” never is seen in the ads or Web sites promoting this device. Finding out if this works is time consuming and pricy. Anywhere from ten to twenty treatments are recommended plus one or two maintenance visits per month are required to preserve any results. There is no typical cost, and depending on where you go, prices can range from $75 to $200 per session.

Attempting to portray endermologie as a serious effective treatment for cellulite, it is often presented as being FDA-approved as a Class I Medical Device and therefore approved by the FDA for its intended purpose. While endermologie machines are indeed Class 1 Medical Devices, this has no meaning in terms of efficacy. Class I status is a designation indicating there is “minimal potential for harm to the user.” No other aspect of the machine is approved or sanctioned by the FDA. According to the FDA (, “Class 1 Medical Devices are subject to the least regulatory control … Foreign establishments … are not [even] required to register their product with the FDA…. Examples of Class I devices include elastic bandages, examination gloves, and hand-held surgical instruments.” The FDA attributes no efficacy value to endermologie machines. Whether or not these devices are harmful depends on how they are operated, meaning how aggressively they’re used.

Despite the FDA’s lack of recognition (and some warning letters admonishing those making false claims) you will often see lists of “studies” claiming to prove endermologie’s effectiveness. Yet, some of these “studies” were neither published nor peer-reviewed. Rather, they were lectures presented worldwide at various medical conferences. These types of presentations are not studies. The information presented is one sided, and more often than not, paid for by the company that owns the device with the presenter receiving financial compensation for the endorsement. Such presentations are not held to the same scientific standard as published, peer-reviewed research. What you will certainly not see listed are the published studies indicating that endermologie doesn’t work. (Source: Journal of Cosmetic and Laser Therapy, December 2004; 181-185, Plastic Reconstructive Surgery, September 1999, pages 1110-1114; and Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, March 1998, pages 145-153)

Regardless of conflicting evidence, endermologie and similar machines, such as ESC’s Silhouette SilkLight Subdermal Tissue Massage System, are here to stay. It is an easy procedure to offer clients and, for the most part, it seems to make women happy. Whether or not this is psychological doesn’t seem to matter. In the long run, complications are few and far between, so the only real downside is the potential waste of money, which doesn’t stop those in the pursuit of perfection.

Non-ablative Lasers and Light Systems
Lasers may very well be the next generation in the world of cellulite therapies, but a lot more research is needed before this evolving treatment proves itself to be effective and worth the money. Ever since the FDA approved TriActive Laserdermology (Cynosure Inc, Chelmsford, MA) as a Class II medical device that “temporarily reduces the appearance of cellulite,” lots of companies have wanted in on the action. TriActive combines a diode laser (at a wavelength of 810 nanometers) with localized cooling, suction, and mechanical massage (sort of a cross between a laser and an endermologie machine). Treatment protocol varies, but generally the process is three times a week for two weeks and then biweekly treatments for five weeks. A Class II medical device status indicates this laser can be sold and used without physician supervision, which means a growing number of salons and spas are advertising its success and changing the FDA classification of “temporarily reduces” to a more alluring “reduces” cellulite. (Sources:; Securities and Exchange Commission Information,; and Journal of Cosmetic and Laser Therapy, June 2005, pages 81-85 and June 2004, pages 181–185)

Another device approved by the FDA is the VelaSmooth system (Syneron Inc, Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada). It combines near infrared light at a wavelength of 700 nanometers, continuous wave radiofrequency, and mechanical suction. Twice-weekly treatments for a total of eight to ten sessions have been recommended. One of the only studies demonstrating this machine’s efficacy included twenty women, and eighteen of the twenty personally thought they saw improvement. Yet the actual measurements only showed a 0.3-inch reduction in thigh circumference. Hardly sweeping results by any standard, making it clear that larger-scale studies are needed, especially before you decide to spend $1,000 or more to see if these kind of machines can get you what you want, namely smoother thighs, not a lighter wallet. (Sources: Journal of Cosmetic and Laser Therapy, December 2004, pages 187-190; December 2004, pages 181-185; June 2005, pages 81-85)

Electrical Muscle Stimulators (EMS) and Iontophoresis Devices
According to, “Muscle stimulators are a legitimate medical device approved for certain conditions—to relax muscle spasms, increase blood circulation, prevent blood clots, and rehabilitate muscle function after a stroke. But many health spas and figure salons claim that muscle stimulators can remove wrinkles, perform face lifts, reduce breast size, reduce a ‘beer belly,’ and remove cellulite. Iontophoresis devices are prescription devices that use direct electric current to introduce ions of soluble salts (i.e., medications) into body tissues for therapeutic or diagnostic purposes. The FDA considers promotion of muscle stimulators or iontophoresis devices for any type of body shaping or contouring to be fraudulent.” (Source:

Body Wrapping
Many salons and spas offer a cellulite/weight- loss service where the body is tightly wrapped or dressed in special garments with or without a “specialty” cream or lotion applied first. Promising to take inches off your body, the cost for these treatments range from $65 to $500 depending on the salon and if the clientele is elite enough to warrant the steep price. Scientific-sounding information makes this process seem legitimate, but in the long run all it is doing is temporarily compressing your skin (you could probably do this yourself with plastic wrap), which will then return to its original shape in a matter of time, how much time depends on your skin’s response. Impressive results often are delivered after measuring several parts of the body and adding up small incremental changes, which in total, end up sounding far more impressive than it really is.

Infomercials, Internet sites, and some multilevel marketing companies sell at-home systems claiming to eliminate toxins and squeeze water-logged fatty tissue dry. You can’t squeeze toxins out of a cell. While you may be able to squeeze water out of a cell that same pressure would concurrently injure other cells, which isn’t good for your skin. Plus, the water content would return to whatever level is natural for the body fairly soon due to homeostasis. All in all, there is no research whatsoever showing that body wrapping does anything positive and it will not get rid of fat or cellulite. (Source: Federal Trade Commission,

Skin Patches
According to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), it “…has continued its attack on bogus weight-loss claims by suing a diet patch manufacturer and a retailer that marketed the patch directly to Spanish-speaking consumers. In two separate federal court actions, the FTC charged that the patch manufacturer, Transdermal Products International Marketing Corporation, and the retailer, SG Institute of Health & Education, Inc., falsely claimed that the skin patch causes substantial weight loss. The FTC complaints in both cases also challenged false claims that the patch or its main ingredient, sea kelp, has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The FTC further alleged that Transdermal Products provided retailers with deceptive marketing materials that could be used to mislead consumers.”

“The defendants in both cases allegedly used one or more of the seven bogus weight-loss claims that are part of the FTC’s ‘Red Flag’ education campaign announced in December 2003. The ongoing Red Flag campaign provides guidance to assist media outlets and others in spotting false claims in weight-loss ads. According to the FTC, one of the most common false weight-loss claims is that diet patches, topical creams and gels, body wraps, and other products worn on the body or rubbed into the skin can cause substantial weight loss. (Source: Federal Trade Commission,


Liposuction has been used to reshape and reduce the appearance of accumulated fat layers and cellulite. However, the primary function of this procedure is to remove fat in localized areas, not cellulite. In cases where liposuction involves the removal of large quantities of stored fat, it can sometimes worsen the appearance of cellulite by creating unsupported and slackened skin, which will allow any remaining fat (and some always remains) to show through.

Paula’s™ Choice
1030 SW 34th Street, Suite A • Renton, WA 98055-4813
1.800.831.4088 •

© Copyright 2006 by Paula Begoun. This publication is the property of Paula’s Choice, Inc. (“Paula’s Choice”), and/or its owners or affiliates. Reproduction, republication, alteration, posting, transmission or distribution of this material requires written permission from Paula’s Choice. For more information see our Terms of Use at

From Here:


Covered in Cellulite Creams

While the current crop of products claiming to reduce or eliminate cellulite is rapidly increasing, research regarding their efficacy remains at a bare minimum. Overall, the research states loud and clear these products don't work but sadly, the lure of these potions is hard to fend off. None of us wants cellulite, and combating it is an uphill battle not necessarily affected by weight loss. In fact, according to the American Academy of Dermatology, cellulite is the body’s natural way of storing fat in adult women. You may be shocked to learn that most women who are not extremely malnourished have some amount of cellulite. For some women, especially very thin women, cellulite may only be visible by pinching skin, while for the vast majority of women, some amount of cellulite is always visible.

Cellulite is assumed to be caused by the accumulation of fat cells that protrude or are interlaced with possibly weakened layers of skin. Many companies selling anti-cellulite products have referred to this as "imprisoned fat," which is actually a decent analogy. What is definitely true is that women are far more prone to cellulite than men, most likely because they have more subcutaneous fat cells in their hips and thighs (Source: Journal of Applied Physiology , April 2002, pages 1611–1618).

There is a lengthy list of products claiming they can be rubbed on the skin and then somehow free your fat and improve skin tone to eliminate or reduce the appearance of cellulite. Despite the popularity of these lotions and potions, two questions remain unresolved: (1) the lack of any formulary cohesiveness between products, and (2) any support that these products work (Source: Skin Research and Technology, May 2002, pages 118-124). The European Journal of Dermatology (December 2000, pages 596–603) reviewed 32 cellulite products containing between 4 and 31 ingredients that had few similarities. "Forty-four different botanicals and 39 different emollients were used in the 32 products. Caffeine, present in 14 products, was the most common additive, apparently representing an 'active' ingredient. In other respects the compositions of the products were similar to those of skin creams." Cosmetics companies are throwing in random plants without any proof they can help, and yet the suggestive claims are there to entice consumers to try yet another miracle anti-cellulite potion.

Aminophylline, a prescription bronchodilator (opens lung passageways), gained notoriety as an ingredient in cellulite creams as a result of a study published in Obesity Research (November 1995, Supplemental pages 561S–568S). However, the validity of this now dated research was called into question because one of the authors was marketing an aminophylline cream being sold at the time, and thus was not what you would call an objective investigator. Also, the number of participants in the study was small and most were also dieting and exercising at the same time they were applying the aminophylline cream (Source: Annals of Pharmacotherapy , March 1996, pages 292–293).

Doubt about aminophylline's value was also revealed by a study published in Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery (September 1999, pages 1110–1114), which described a double-blind study that compared the effectiveness of three different treatments for cellulite on three different groups of women. One investigated the twice-daily application of aminophylline cream compared with a placebo; another the twice-weekly treatment using endermologie (a machine rolled over the surface of skin claiming to get rid of cellulite) on one leg and nothing on the other; and a third used endermologie on both sides along with the same cream regimen as the first group. "No statistical difference existed in measurements between legs for any of the treatment groups... . [Even] The best subjective assessment, by the patients themselves, revealed that only 3 of 35 aminophylline-treated legs and 10 of 35 [e]ndermologie-treated legs [felt] their cellulite appearance improved." So, aminophylline appears not to be the answer for cellulite, though it still shows up in some cellulite creams.

Caffeine is used as an ingredient in cellulite creams because of its distant relationship to aminophylline. Aminophylline is a modified form of theophylline, and both are bronchodilators (Source: Yale New Haven Health Library, Alternative/Complimentary Medicine,; caffeine contains theophylline (Source: Progress in Neurobiology, December 2002, pages 377–392). There is no research to prove or disprove that theophylline can affect cellulite. Only its association with aminophylline and subsequently its relation to caffeine makes it a good, natural-sounding candidate for a cellulite cream. There are two studies showing caffeine to have benefit for cellulite, but one was conducted by Johnson & Johnson, which owns RoC and Neutrogena, both companies that sell cellulite creams that contain caffeine, and the other was conducted by cosmetic ingredient manufacturers that sell anti-cellulite compounds (Source: Journal of Cosmetic Science , July-August 2002, pages 209–218). There is no other independent research showing that caffeine provides any benefit for treating cellulite, nor research pointing to how much caffeine is needed to produce results. Besides, if caffeine were the answer, wouldn't consuming tea and coffee (without cream and sugar, of course) daily have an internal effect on cellulite? Couldn’t you just rub coffee on your legs or make a coffee ground scrub and get results? Wouldn't Starbucks have a whole new marketing angle to entice customers?

Other cellulite creams have gone about trying to improve skin texture on the thigh by using ingredients like retinol or AHAs (Source: American Journal of Clinical Dermatology, November-December 2000m pages 369-374). Theoretically, these come the closest to having the potential for improving the appearance of cellulite. If cellulite is a problem with the structure of skin, applying ingredients that help improve skin structure should make a difference. A small amount of research shows that to be the case, though the number of participants in these studies was also extremely small (Source: American Journal of Clinical Dermatology , November-December 2000, pages 369–374). What is important to point out is that if retinol or AHAs can help, you don't need something labeled "cellulite cream" to give them a try.

In the end, it makes the most sense to not obsess over cellulite (I know, easier said than done!) and instead concentrate on getting enough daily exercise and eating a healthy, well-balanced diet that emphasizes whole rather than processed foods. Searching for a quick fix when it comes to weight issues doesn't work.

Paula Begoun
From here:
la vie en rose
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 1622
Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:42 am      Reply with quote
just a comment on water retention and cellulite. i definitely think there is a link here as i've been on a sodium restricted diet for a few years and do have to watch my water intake (total bummer). some meds i'm on have put weight on me in unappealing places that i've been waiting for cellulite to develop. it never has -- and i really think it has something to do with the fact that i don't drink a ton of water. furthering that, almost all the anti-cellulite creams have caffiene in them which is a diuretic.... i'm not saying not to drink water, but i do think people tend to go overboard and too much is not healthy (or good for the skin) either -- unless you exercise frequently and sweat it out. just my two cents. no scientific veracity, only my experience....
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572
Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:03 am      Reply with quote
I take MSM in powder form, they instruct that I take a tablespoon a day mixed with some form of liquid. I was wondering how much this is equivalent to I mgs because I'd like to take about 3000mgs or so.

26, combination skin with oily t-zone
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572
Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:04 am      Reply with quote
Okay I'm retarded, it says right on the container...I'm so silly

26, combination skin with oily t-zone
Automatic Message
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:13 am
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic

Obagi-C System Cleansing Gel with Vitamin C (180 ml / 6 oz) Peter Thomas Roth Hello Kitty Rose Repair Gel Mask (150 ml) Thalgo Prodige des Océans Gift Set (coffret)