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Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:20 pm  |
Has anyone tried the 20% and found it too strong? I have a sample and it stings slightly.... Is this normal or should I go for the 15% (don't have sample of this). One very important question, does the higher % mean greater sun protection?  Thanks |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:14 pm |
I have been using the 20 for several months now. It hardly ever stings me. The only time I feel a slight stinging is if I apply it right after I exfoliate.
According to the packaging, a slight stinging is normal, but if it is actually irritating your skin, I would drop down to the lower concentration.
Liz |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:06 pm |
Thanks. I'll try it for another couple of days. I also have a sample of b5 (I really must stop asking for samples  Do you use it as well-is it necessary? I have oily, aging  skin-so it's nice & light-just wondering if it's worth the price...thanks again |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:58 pm |
| I use the primacy serum 20 and it stings once in awhile, but I also see better results, so I keep using it!. The 20 means the percentage or strength of the vitamin C, it should not be confused with SPF (sun protection). You still have to wear sunblock on top of it. |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:01 pm |
I am 30, I have always had oily skin, but now it is mostly normal and gets a little oily when I am under a lot of stress. I do use the B5 gel, but I haven't seen changes in my skin by leaps and bounds with this gel. I do like to use it in the morning on my forehead, which tends to get a little dry. I think that it is a good light moisturizer for someone with oilier skin. One thing that I did find when I started using the vit C is that it normalized my face tremendously. I used to break out in an oily mess an hour or two after I put my makeup on and now I can go all day with only a touch up or two. I am using the 20% C, Phyto+, and at night I am alternating my retin A with Cellex-C line smoother (which I like much more than SK Intense Line Defense). I also use Cellex-C's Betaplex New Complexion Cream at night. My face is clearer and brighter now than it has ever been in my life.
Liz |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:50 pm |
Abejita,
I'm 48 and had oily skin all my life too. It's still oily, but not the greasy mess it was before (age has it's advantages. I'm leery about putting creams on my face-I always opt for lotions -even though I'm a little dehydrated. Any shine accentuates the vestiges of past (thank God  acne -ice pick scars-love to retexturize those. I wonder if you've ever tried the sea foam cream by cellex-c, it's made for oily, dehydrated skin. It's on my 'wish list' and may order it. It's tough buying without trying.That's why I've put off on the b5-even though the company says it's necessary the vit.c to work, I wonder if it's true. I'll take a ;ook at the products you mentionned. Thanks
Skin Addict
Thank you-I got the sunblock covered-the big guns-La Roche Posay' greasy, but I'm protected.  |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:03 pm |
I have the sea silk moisturizer. It is very nice. The cellex-C new complex cream is a very light moisturizer made for oily skin. It has 10% alpha and beta hydroxy acids in it. I can see a difference every morning when I get up. It is similiar to SK Overnight renew Oily, which has 5% alpha and beta hydroxy acids in it, but I like the cellex-c much better. The Skinceuticals cream made my face very oily and sticky even though it was meant for oily skin. The cellex-c leaves a nice semi-matte finish and I can really tell a difference when I use it, which I couldn't with the SK.
I've never heard that the b5 is necessary for the vit C to work. I think that they recommend it because the vit c can be so dehydrating. I don't always use the b5 and I have never used it over my entire face and I have seen fantastic results with my vit c.
On the sunblock, try shiseido's Extra Smooth SPF 33. It is really thin, feels like a lotion and isn't greasy at all. It dries fairly matte.
Liz |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:18 pm |
Abejita: Thanks-I'd better start adding up my order. I'll try the new complexion
cream when I come back from vacation-I'm going to Greece for 2 months. Alpha and beta hydroxys will make my skin too sensitive to the sun (oh, did I mention I have melasma too?  ) That's why after much pestering on skin boards , I decided the sea silk is light and soothing for hot (I mean HOT) summer nights. When I come back home I'll start hydroxying and retin-a ing again to repair the damage.Please let me know if I'm wrong about the sea silk-it certainly sounds ideal. Thanks BTW-I'll have the Jan Marini Bioclear on hand for any emergency resurfacing-this is powerful stuff-removed blackheads I think I was born with! |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:58 pm |
Hate to rain on this parade but in the research I have done on C, Dr. sheldon Pinnell (father of stable C topicals and founder of skinceuticals/cellex-c with his children) has said that any C concentration over 15% is wasted. His research showed that the skin has a limited ability to uptake C and once it reaches it's limit, the rest is wasted. This makes sense to me since internally C is excreted once you hit a certain limit every 4-6 hours. For instance, better to take 500mg every 4-6 hours than 2000mg in AM. Lots of the C will just end up in the toilet. So why do they sell the greater concentrations? I suspect that:
1. they are taking advantage of the consumer mentality that more of a good thing must be better, and 2. the formulas may not be especially stable so adding more C may keep the product effective over time....Anyone else have an opinion? I use a 12% btw and it works very well. |
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Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:48 am |
Here is a chart, from skinceuticals, showing that 20% is the maximum that the skin can absorb and after that the absorbtion rate drops off dramatically. I personally have used the 15 and 20 and saw a much more dramatic difference with the 20.
http://www.skinceuticals.com/productItem.asp?productTypeID=2&productID=21#
Also, there is no relation between the founders of Cellex-c and the founders of Skinceuticals. Skinceuticals founders are Alden Pinnell and Russel Moom, they were roommates at SMU. The founders of Cellex-C are Dr. Lorraine Faxon Meisner and Dr. Schinitsky.
Liz |
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Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:13 am |
| I knew I had seen this chart somewhere! Do you think the cellex-c sea silk is a good night-time product for summer. Did you see any results. Thanks |
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Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:26 am |
I think that the sea silk is a great moisturizer. I use it in the morning if I have dry spots, usually my forehead. I also use it on the nights that I don't use the new complextion cream. The sea silk is very light and absorbs quickly and does not leave a greasy feel, just hydration. I can use it over my entire face and not wake up with and oil slick. 
Liz |
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Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:30 am |
| sounds like just what I need.Thank you. |
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Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:21 am |
Actually Sheldon Pinnell founded Skinceuticals in 1992. A short while later, Cellex-C and Pinnell formed a partnership which has since been dissolved. Pinnell himself has been quoted saying that any concentration higher than 15% was not necessary. However, Skinceuticals does offer greater than 15% product....so go figure!  |
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Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:02 am |
"Dallas-based SkinCeuticals® was founded in 1997 and conceived by Alden Pinnell and Russell Moon, former roommates at Southern Methodist University. Unlike conventional “feel good” cosmetic and skin care products, the premise behind SkinCeuticals® was to develop an advanced line of antioxidant therapy treatments and sun protection products formulated with the highest quality, scientifically proven ingredients. To achieve this goal, Pinnell and Moon looked to a team of leading dermatologists and world-class formulators to make their vision a reality. Just six years after their humble beginnings, working out of a closet-sized loft in Deep Elum, TX, Pinnell and Moon have grown their company into a “cosmeceutical powerhouse,” employing 107 full-time employees at their new, state-of-the art 39,000 square-foot headquarters in Dallas, TX."
I would actually be quite interested in seeing where Dr. Pinnell is quoted in saying that concentrations over 15% are a waste. I have looked all over and I have never been able to find that. SkinCeuticals is based here in Garland, TX (a suburb of Dallas) and I actually went on tour of their facility. Nothing was ever mentioned of any sort of partnership with Cellex-C and all of the research that was handed out supported the graph that I posted earlier of the 20% concentrations being the maximum usable concentrations.
Liz |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:42 am |
ooooh Liz, did you get to try loads of stuff on your tour???
I use the 20% and it's fine unless i've done a peel. I use the B5 gel and then stri-vectin. I have really dry skin and need the extra on top (should have listened to magda  ). My skin is not as dry as it used to be tho and it is looking really good, so I will def stick with vit c, tho I may try out betterat40's supplier as it is a lot cheaper. Cheap enough to use on chest area etc........god, I could bathe in it......  
..sorry.. 
Liz |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:09 am |
| Wow, Liz, sounds like maybe some revisionist history going on here. Who is Alden Pinnell? Sheldon Pinnell holds all the patents -easy to find...Is Alden his brother maybe? This is so strange. I will try to find the article where I read the % concentration quote and post.... |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:36 am |
I would guess that Alden is Sheldon's son. Alden is quite young, mid 30's perhaps. All of Sheldon's vit C patents are licensed exclusively to Skinceuticals. I don't know about revisionist history, all of this info comes straight from company litature and local news stories. Even there own website says they were founded in '97.
Liz |
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Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:24 am |
Hi there
Sorry for this stupid question:
Do I need to keep my Vit C bottle in refrigerator after opened?
Thks
Anna |
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Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:26 am |
when I got mine from EDS they sent me a sample of c+e serum. I used that and then once a week I transfer from the bottle of 20% that I keep in the fridge. I figure this way it stays fresher and, as I am only opening the big bottle once a week, it will oxidise less. I have to say that more than two months on, the serum doesn't seem to have changed colour at all, so I guess it's a good thing to do.
Liz  |
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Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:45 am |
 what a wonderful idea! I have the 20% sample bottle and didn't even think of that! thanks. |
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Mabsy
Moderator
 
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 9644
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Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:52 am |
I do that too! And here I thought I was the only one!
I don't keep it in the fridge though, but in its box in a drawer. My main reason for doing this is to minimise its contact with light. In terms of air, I'm not sure how effective it is to do what we're doing - after all there is air in the bottle already. But hey, I'm sure it doesn't hurt!
Mabsy |
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Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:11 am |
well I figured that if I'm only opening the bottle once a week, then it's somehow less air, cause you wouldn't leave the top off would you? It still looks really pale and it must be at least 2 1/2 months old now. As it's my first bottle, I'm not sure what colour it goes after all that time. I like doing it though, cos it's more ritualistic  !
Liz
PS Does that make me sound sad????? |
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Mabsy
Moderator
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 9644
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Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:52 am |
| guapagirl wrote: |
PS Does that make me sound sad????? |
Not at all! Well I hope not, coz if you do then so do I Mine is still a very light yellowy colour as well. And it has been open at least 3 months I think. I can tell you what it looks like when it is oxidised though - dark orange! I had a sample of the Skinceuticals ages ago that I didn't realise had a break in the black rubber squeezy thingy (oh yeah, how descriptive is that! ) and, after toying with the idea of trying it for a few months, when I opened it up it was dark orange. Oh well. Live and learn.
Mabsy |
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Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:50 pm |
When I read the post about keeping the C in the fridge, I thought man, that is a great idea. So I went get my little sample vials (that I keep for traveling) and my large bottle of C. And guess what! The serum in each was the same color! I use the large bottle everyday and I have used the travel vial only once for a week. I guess that once it is exposed to air, it starts oxidizing and it doesn't really matter how much (within reason) it is exposed after. For example, if you had two bottles and you opened them both and the same time. Then you put one of them away and used the other everyday. After a couple of months, the two bottles will still have oxidated at the same rate.
I bought this bottle (and received the sample vial) in February. They are both the color of very light golden honey right now. I was curious so I emailed SkinCeuticals and asked them what the shelf life was. They said that it was a year after you opened it and that the serum would turn a deep deep golden brown.
Liz |
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