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What's the best place to get Grape Seed Extract?
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Masha
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:50 pm      Reply with quote
In terms of quality and price?

Many Thanks Smile

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nyonyakay
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Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:22 am      Reply with quote
What kind of grape seed extract are you after?

There is grape seed proanthocynanidins, and there is reservatrol.

Both are available at http://www.skinactives.com, which sells tiny amounts for very high prices.

I normally get grape seed proanthocnyanidins from http://www.bulkactives.com, which generally has the most reasonable prices, but they are out of stock there.

New Directions Aromatics currently has 3.5oz (I think this is just under 100g) for $19.00 - http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/grape-seed-extract-p-672.html?osCsid=4f86feb354fd6cda9bcc5cb318de

You may not need a whole 100g, but when you compare the price of skinactives which is $7.50 for 5g, you start to think about "outrageous" profit margins.

Grape seed Proanthocynanidins 95% is very strong coloured. I find I only need to use it at a maximum of 1% concentration in my serums and creams.
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Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:47 am      Reply with quote
Do you want a topical application or a supplement to take internally???
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Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:25 am      Reply with quote
Masha, I get my grapeseed oil at the healthfood store. The brand is called NOW and it's skin quality expeller-pressed for a very reasonable price.

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Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:42 pm      Reply with quote
katee wrote:
Do you want a topical application or a supplement to take internally???


Oh internally please Wink

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Masha
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:25 am      Reply with quote
I was after the grape seed proanthocynadins for topical application.

Nyonyakay, how is the quality of the one from NewDirectionsAromatics? I would like to find a good quality supplier that also carries other kinds of actives mainly anitoxidants like ALA and CoQ10 etc so I can save on postage. I wanted to avoid SkinActives though for the very reason mentioned and it looks like Bulk Actives is on holidays Sad.

I was wondering about that Grape Seed Oil, Athena, does it have similar benefits to the extract? What does it do?

Also while I am on the subject, I was looking on the internet and I came across this Grape Seed Extract called Vinanza. It sounds like a very good quality extract, but I have no idea who retails it, does anyone know of it?

Oh well, thanks to anyone for any ideas Smile

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Masha
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:27 am      Reply with quote
Oops I did forget Shock. Here's the website for the Vinanza: http://www.roxlor.com/vinanza.html

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athena123
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:01 am      Reply with quote
Masha, I don't know if grapeseed oil has the same benefits as the extract, I only know it's 100% pure grapeseed oil. I use it as a carrier oil for my hair, nails and neck/chest area.

Here's the link
http://store.thecatalog.com/7705.html

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Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:18 am      Reply with quote
You won't get the same benefits from a carrier oil that you get from an extract.

BTW, NewDirections' stuff is top notch.
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:42 am      Reply with quote
katee wrote:
You won't get the same benefits from a carrier oil that you get from an extract.

BTW, NewDirections' stuff is top notch.


Grrr, no wonder my brand so inexpensive Very Happy - Katee, what are the benefits from extract not in the oil? Can extract be applied topically?

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Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:33 am      Reply with quote
Grapeseed oil is a very nice carrier oil for facial serums. It's one of the lightest oils and is absorbed very quickly without leaving a greasy feeling....

Extracts are topical ingredients, but not to be used otb. They're too strong for that. They're generally added for their active properties. Grapeseed extract is generally used because it is said to be an excellent antioxidant.
nyonyakay
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:10 pm      Reply with quote
I agree with Katee. You really won't see any benefit from using grapeseed oil topically, beyond the fact that it will provide emollience and enhance spreadability of your serum/cream/lotion without being as greasy as say, olive oil.

The benefits from using grapeseed proanthocynadins topically however have been researched and documented.

Bulk Actives provides some write-up on this, see: http://www.bulkactives.com/grapeseed.htm
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:17 pm      Reply with quote
Masha wrote:
I was after the grape seed proanthocynadins for topical application.

Nyonyakay, how is the quality of the one from NewDirectionsAromatics? I would like to find a good quality supplier that also carries other kinds of actives mainly anitoxidants like ALA and CoQ10 etc so I can save on postage. I wanted to avoid SkinActives though for the very reason mentioned and it looks like Bulk Actives is on holidays Sad.

I was wondering about that Grape Seed Oil, Athena, does it have similar benefits to the extract? What does it do?

Also while I am on the subject, I was looking on the internet and I came across this Grape Seed Extract called Vinanza. It sounds like a very good quality extract, but I have no idea who retails it, does anyone know of it?

Oh well, thanks to anyone for any ideas Smile


I would recommend AGAINST getting oils from New Directions. I have used their products both professionally and personally and can honestly say that their oils are very poor quality. I have sampled their essential oils, bought soaps, clays, herbal oils and extracts for myself, and even used the grapeseed and rosehip oils in a spa I worked at because the owner was to cheap to get anything better. I have also taken a tour of their facilities in Brampton and everything was stored in huge plastic vats that didn't look that clean or tidy. Their essential oils are also really bad. Some of them even seem stretched or diluted. Not as pure as they like to claim. They say they will give you chromatographs to guarantee what you are getting but unless you are a chemist, good luck understanding any of it. I also found bits of plastic in the clays and the herbal oils were terrible. They are still sitting in a box somewhere untouched. The only thing I will ever repurchase from them is packaging and melt and pour soap but, anything aromatherapy related, I will stay far away from them.

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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:24 pm      Reply with quote
Also wanted to add that grapeseed oil is not the best option for a facial oil. It's pretty good for massages because it spreads nicely and gets absorbed quickly but, if you are looking for something a little more effective for your face that is high in antioxidants, I would recommend Pomegranate Oil. Rosehip Oil and Evening Primrose oil are also fantastic as well and work wonders on the skin. I firmly believe that if you purchase a good quality oil it will be more beneficial for the skin than some extracts and also safer to use longterm as well.

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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:28 pm      Reply with quote
Wildflower, I am surprised to hear that about New Directions Aromatics in USA, but then you have toured their facilities, so ...

I have personally bought a lot of ingredients from New Directions in Sydney, Australia, since I am Sydney-based. I have also toured their warehouse and facilities in Sydney, and met and spoken with their chemists, and have been nothing but impressed with the Australian outfit.

However I tend to only purchase packaging, oils and surfactants from them, as the prices of their other items such as active ingredients and preservatives can be uncompetitive compared to say Bulk Actives, Garden of Wisdom or the Herbarie, even when I factor US and Taiwan shipping charges into the equation!
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:36 pm      Reply with quote
nyonyakay wrote:
Wildflower, I am surprised to hear that about New Directions Aromatics in USA, but then you have toured their facilities, so ...

I have personally bought a lot of ingredients from New Directions in Sydney, Australia, since I am Sydney-based. I have also toured their warehouse and facilities in Sydney, and met and spoken with their chemists, and have been nothing but impressed with the Australian outfit.

However I tend to only purchase packaging, oils and surfactants from them, as the prices of their other items such as active ingredients and preservatives can be uncompetitive compared to say Bulk Actives, Garden of Wisdom or the Herbarie, even when I factor US and Taiwan shipping charges into the equation!


Actually I was referring to the one in Canada. And I know, I was quite surprised as well as they are such a HUGE company. I remember when I came out of school and was starting to build a larger collection of oils and such for my practice I went straight to them. My teacher had warned me against it as she had used their products before but, I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt thinking maybe she just had had a bad experience with a few items or maybe some bad batches. But that was over 5 years ago and to this day I still can't say anything great about their oils even though I have tried them again and again over the past years. It's too bad. I expected more from them. They may have reasonable prices but I'd prefer to spend more and get better quality.

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Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:47 pm      Reply with quote
wildflower wrote:
Also wanted to add that grapeseed oil is not the best option for a facial oil. It's pretty good for massages because it spreads nicely and gets absorbed quickly but, if you are looking for something a little more effective for your face that is high in antioxidants, I would recommend Pomegranate Oil. Rosehip Oil and Evening Primrose oil are also fantastic as well and work wonders on the skin. I firmly believe that if you purchase a good quality oil it will be more beneficial for the skin than some extracts and also safer to use longterm as well.


Masha, pomegranate oil is very thick and has a great profile, but is also very expensive. I recommend red raspberry seed oil as well.

My personal philosophy is to balance the use of plant oils with the judicious use of appropriate plant extracts and other anti-oxidants including vitamins in skincare. In the same way that you wouldn't eat only one type of food or food group for all round well-balanced nutrition and good health, there really is no one ingredient or type of ingredient that will give you glowing healthy skin.
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Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:57 pm      Reply with quote
nyonyakay wrote:
wildflower wrote:
Also wanted to add that grapeseed oil is not the best option for a facial oil. It's pretty good for massages because it spreads nicely and gets absorbed quickly but, if you are looking for something a little more effective for your face that is high in antioxidants, I would recommend Pomegranate Oil. Rosehip Oil and Evening Primrose oil are also fantastic as well and work wonders on the skin. I firmly believe that if you purchase a good quality oil it will be more beneficial for the skin than some extracts and also safer to use longterm as well.


Masha, pomegranate oil is very thick and has a great profile, but is also very expensive. I recommend red raspberry seed oil as well.

My personal philosophy is to balance the use of plant oils with the judicious use of appropriate plant extracts and other anti-oxidants including vitamins in skincare. In the same way that you wouldn't eat only one type of food or food group for all round well-balanced nutrition and good health, there really is no one ingredient or type of ingredient that will give you glowing healthy skin.



This is exactly my attitude too Very Happy Although I do have a big problem with overdoing it sometimes with the antioxidants, so I'm really trying hard to use only very little of what I do buy.
It's Funny you should mention Pomegranate Oil and Red Raspberry Oil though because I was going to ask about these on a new thread.

But back to the problem of the Grape Seed Extract. I think I've decided I will buy my things from Bulk Actives because they have the other things I wanted like the CoQ10 and ALA. I went to their website and I like how it's very informative and very open about everything.

I also saw that the owner's name is Jands on the Smartskincare forum and I read some of his posts and he seems like everyone says very honest and nice and that's very important to me too.

But just one think irks me about the products being from China, I don't know it's just always that quality issue that worries me and I always prefer things made in Europe/USA. So please tell me, what are your thoughts about Bulkactives products being from China? What do you think about it all?

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Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:27 pm      Reply with quote
Some people hold sweeping views and make sweeping statements about quality of manufacture from Europe/USA versus that from China.

There are good and bad from each of these continents and countries.

My Dell laptop and Hewlett-Packard printer are made in Malaysia, and Sony laptop batteries are manufactured in China. I have not been disappointed in the quality of these items. And where does anyone think the bulk of plasma and LCD tvs are manufactured these days?

All I can say is that I have personally purchased and used a few of the products offered by Jands of Bulk Actives, and I have never been disappointed. From what little I have read of Jands, he appears to be a teaching professional based in Taiwan, and I am of the opinion (not backed up by evidence, though) that he does not purchase from unscrupulous backyard operators. He has been very courteous and professional to me in emails, and you could write him your queries about how and where he sources his products. I am sure he will respond as soon as Bulk Actives resumes operations after the end of this month.

Now I also hold the same views about the top quality of the fulsomely priced products from Skin Actives, who are not so open about the source of their products. I daresay there would be at least a few among their actives which have been manufactured in China. Just one example: Skin Actives offers an excellent active called Tetrahydrocurcuminoids (http://skinactives.com/products/thc.htm). When I did a Google search on this item, this website immediately popped up: http://www.tetrahydrocurcuminoids.com.

The manufacturer is Sabinsa corporation; if you look up http://www.sabinsa.com and do a little digging you will find out that this company manfuactures tetrahydrocurcuminoids and its other cosmeceutical and pharmaceutical products in INDIA. But their corporate office is in USA.

Now what do you think of that?
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Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:00 am      Reply with quote
One more piece in the Tetrahydrocurcuminoids (THC)story: how do we know the Skin Actives THC is one and the same THC made by Sabinsa Corporation?

US Patent # 6,653,327 titled �Cross-regulin composition of turmeric-derived tetrahydrocurcuminoids for skin lightening and protection against UVB rays� was granted to Sabinsa Corporation on November 25, 2003.

So to end a longish post which is somehow connected to where to buy a small amount of quality grape seed Proanthocyanidins, some top quality actives are manufactured in India, and probably CHina as well, and distributed through USA/UK/European re-sellers.
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Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:50 am      Reply with quote
Wildflower, I was very surprised to read your post, especially consider that the original poster clearly isn't an experienced DIY'er.

I think we all have our own favorite oils. I knew very little about cranberry seed oil, for instance, until Candy used it in her Triple C. It's lovely, lovely stuff to be sure.

With the credentials that you cite for yourself, I'm a little surprised at some of your recommendations. Evening primrose, pomegranate, cranberry seed, etc. are generally NOT considered to be carrier oils are they? They seem to be utilized in relatively small percentages as components of an overall formulation.

I cannot speak to the quality of New Directions essential oils. I don't use them for the most part. But, I've always been delighted with the products I've purchased from them. And, anyone who knows me knows that I'm not delighted easily, in fact, I can be quite a PITA Smile .
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Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:59 am      Reply with quote
BTW nyonyakay, I couldn't agree with you more! I think bulkactives.com is a great example too. Jands is a pleasure to deal with and I don't think his principal concern is turning a large profit. He started out as a skincare activist himself and started selling actives as a service to people like us who he met on boards who were spending a small fortune for actives from places like skinactives.com.

I think we got something of a taste of this when ariesextreme facilitated the group buy on the seakelp bioferment. We got a clear idea of the markup involved. Obviously, some of the cost involved goes to handling, packaging, and the simple labor and effort of the supplier. We saw that with the final prices on the group buy.

But, I'm getting off topic (ha ha - surprise surprise Very Happy ). I just get so annoyed when people make sweeping statements about things! I know I'm very opinionated myself, so it doesn't surprise me when somebody else holds a strong opinion of a product or a supplier, etc. But, there is a difference between having an opinion, however strong, and sweeping, and sometimes completely unqualified and incompetent statements stated as if they were fact.
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Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:06 pm      Reply with quote
katee wrote:
Wildflower, I was very surprised to read your post, especially consider that the original poster clearly isn't an experienced DIY'er.

I think we all have our own favorite oils. I knew very little about cranberry seed oil, for instance, until Candy used it in her Triple C. It's lovely, lovely stuff to be sure.

With the credentials that you cite for yourself, I'm a little surprised at some of your recommendations. Evening primrose, pomegranate, cranberry seed, etc. are generally NOT considered to be carrier oils are they? They seem to be utilized in relatively small percentages as components of an overall formulation.

I cannot speak to the quality of New Directions essential oils. I don't use them for the most part. But, I've always been delighted with the products I've purchased from them. And, anyone who knows me knows that I'm not delighted easily, in fact, I can be quite a PITA Smile .


Hi Katee. Yes, Pomegranate, Evening Primrose and even the Rasberry Seed oil suggested by nyonyakay, are in fact ALL carrier oils. They may be used in small percentages at times and are also often blended with other carrier oils, but they are definitely not essential oils and should not be categorized as such. The percentage one would use of an essential oil as compared to any carrier oil, is extremely minute as they are much more potent than any carrier oil. My recommendation for both the Pomegranate and Evening Primrose oil were used as suggestions for Masha's query for antioxidants as well as for their many other beneficial properties. There are many other great carrier oils one can use in skin care which I have discussed in many other posts.

As for my experience with New Directions, it was just that, my experience, and I was speaking both professionaly and personally in this regard. I am well aware that others have their own opinions (as they are most certainly obliged to), I was solely expressing my own. I'd also like to add that I'm sure all the people I have dealt with and advised would comfirm the fact that I am both competent and qualified. I did mention there were certain things that I would purchase from them, but as their oils are not of superior quality, I would recommend purchasing from somewhere else. My intentions are to educate people as to what is out there. I don't market or sell my own products so I don't have ulterior motives when I recommend this or that.

Also, please do keep in mind that just because one is a beginner DIYer, this doesn't mean they should only buy cheap ingredients to learn from. I believe that starting from scratch with great ingredients will only help one create better and better products. This is also another reason why I suggested carrier oils as they are for the most part quite safe to use, even if one slips and puts a little too much, whereas many skin actives and extracts can cause quite a reaction if used incorrectly. That being said grapeseed extract is a great ingredient which is often used as a natural preservative along with grapefruit seed extract so I recommend using this ingredient in your homemade products.

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Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:15 pm      Reply with quote
wildflower wrote:




Hi Katee. Yes, Pomegranate, Evening Primrose and even the Rasberry Seed oil suggested by nyonyakay, are in fact ALL carrier oils. They may be used in small percentages at times and are also often blended with other carrier oils, but they are definitely not essential oils and should not be categorized as such. The percentage one would use of an essential oil as compared to any carrier oil, is extremely minute as they are much more potent than any carrier oil. My recommendation for both the Pomegranate and Evening Primrose oil were used as suggestions for Masha's query for antioxidants as well as for their many other beneficial properties. There are many other great carrier oils one can use in skin care which I have discussed in many other posts. As for my experience with New Directions, it was just that, my experience, and I was speaking both professionaly and personally in this regard. I'm sure all the people I have dealt with and advised would comfirm the fact that I am both competent and qualified. I did mention there were certain things that I would purchase from them, but as their oils are not of superior quality, I would recommend purchasing from somewhere else. My intentions are to educate people as to what is out there. I don't market or sell my own products so I don't have ulterior motives when I recommend this or that.

Also, please do keep in mind that just because one is a beginner DIYer, this doesn't mean they should only by cheap ingredients to learn from. I believe that starting from scratch with great ingredients will only help one create better and better products. This is also another reason why I suggested carrier oils as they are for the most part quite safe to use, even if one slips and puts a little too much, whereas many skin actives and extracts can cause quite a reaction if used incorrectly. That being said grapeseed extract is a great ingredient which is often used as a natural preservative along with grapefruit seed extract so I recommend using this ingredient in your homemade products.


Wildflower,
Then where would you recommend us to buy good quality essential oils? I would prefer Canadian companies. Thanks.
Wild Cat

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Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:37 pm      Reply with quote
Wild Cat wrote:
Wildflower,
Then where would you recommend us to buy good quality essential oils? I would prefer Canadian companies. Thanks.
Wild Cat


Hi Wild Cat, some great Canadian companies that sell excellent oils are:
www.acqua-vita.com
This is a small homebased business. The owner works directly with growers and distillers worldwide which makes her line very reasonable in regards to pricing. What she doesn't offer in terms of fancy packaging or wide selection, she makes up for in excellent oils and products. She also has the best line of hydrosols around and she has authored a very informative book about the benefits of hydrosols.

www.primaveralife.com
Although this line is German, it can be purchased from a Canadian retailer www.saffronrouge.com. This line has one of the most complete selection of essential oils I have found. The company is not only ethical and responsible but they derive their oils from their own farms and farming cooperatives worldwide. You get the fancy packaging and huge selection here which makes this line pretty pricey, but well worth it if you are looking for top notch oils as well as oils that are hard to find.

The Aromatherapist line of oils is also another great German line - not as complete as Primavera but excellent quality nonetheless. They can be purchased from a small Canadian distributor at http://www.essentialbotanicals.com/

There are many other great Canadian companies out there that sell excellent oils. They are just sometimes hard to find. The ones I mentioned sell oils that I have used personally and professionally and have been very impressed with. Hope this helps. Smile

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