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I decided to go the acid free route also :) My new routine..
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Monica34
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:42 pm      Reply with quote
I have decided to go the acid free route. No retinoic acid (Retin A), AHA or L-Ascorbic acid.

Instead I am going to try the acid free route. I ordered Retinyl Palmitate from the Skinactives site, as well as Ascorbyl Palmitate powder from Iherb.

I am going to make my own Vit A treatment as in Dr.Hubers Vit A booster. His contains 1.25% retinyl palmitate plus 0.1% retinol totalling 1.35% Vit A. One 2.4g tube of the retinyl palmitate by Skinactives is supposed to make 4oz of a 2% lotion. SO, I will add one tube to 6oz lotion to get 1.5% Vit A. I will apply it only 1-2 weekly as he suggests.

Then I will apply a Vit C treatment 2 x weekly. I have to find out exactly how to prepare this one yet, but intend to make a fresh small batch each week.

The other nights I wont use anything but a bit cetaphil cream to which I will add avocado oil which Dr.Huber includes in his treatments. I googled it and its one of the most penetrating oils, also high in lecithin, plant sterols and Vit E - all great for the skin barrier function.

Im not sure if I may add a BHA exfoliant by PC 1 x weekly or not - see how my skin looks.

If anyone has a recipe for the palmitate/ester-C version of Vit C let me know Smile
nyonyakay
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:19 am      Reply with quote
Where did you get the retinyl palmitate from again? Skin Actives only offers retinyl acetate.
nyonyakay
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:26 am      Reply with quote
From Dr Todorov of SmartSkinCare.com:

"A word about vitamin A. Some experts (usually non-scientists) include various forms of vitamin A (such as retinol, retinal and retinyl palmitate) among retinoids. Physiologically speaking, vitamin A is not a retinoid because it does not interact directly with retinoid receptors. Cells have to first convert vitamin A to retinoic acid (i.e. to tretinoin or other retinoid). The rate of such conversion is low and varies significantly among individuals. What does this mean in practice? Low strength topical vitamin A formulations are usually ineffective - not enough of vitamin A is converted into a retinoid. Stabilized, high strength topical vitamin A may be effective, but due to variability in conversion rates the results are far less consistent than with true retinoids and the side effects may be almost as significant."

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/retinoids.html

In order for retinyl palmitate or retinyl acetate to have any kind of effect on your skin, it must effectively convert to retinoic acid.
tracy1970
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:59 am      Reply with quote
Dear Doctor Todorov

I read your reply with great interest.

For the last few weeks I have been using a South African line of skin care which uses Retinyl Palmitate. Is what I am using not actually as good and not as 'age-delaying' as the claims that the company claim?

Best wishes
Tracy
tracy1970
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:59 am      Reply with quote
Dear Doctor Todorov

I read your reply with great interest.

For the last few weeks I have been using a South African line of skin care which uses Retinyl Palmitate. Is what I am using not actually as good and not as 'age-delaying' as the claims that the company claim?

Best wishes
Tracy
nyonyakay
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:06 am      Reply with quote
Laughing
Tracy1970, you need to talk to God himself directly through this channel: drtodorov@smartskincare.com
Wink

Seriously though, this is the section of his skincare forum dedicated to retinoids and Vitamin A: http://www.smartskincare.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
Monica34
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:13 am      Reply with quote
nyonyakay wrote:
Where did you get the retinyl palmitate from again? Skin Actives only offers retinyl acetate.


Sorry - I made a mistake in my thread. I ordered the retinyl acetate form from Skinactives. I thought it was the same thing because it said it was so on the Skinactives site. I since learned by reading more about it online that it they are two different kinds of retinyl esters. Dr.Huber uses the palmitate form. I dont know if they are interchangable. I actually ended up cancelling the order last night via email since there is no phone number - hope it was not too late.

I am going to check with a pharmacist at Walgreens if I can get it through them. I let you know.
Monica34
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:24 am      Reply with quote
nyonyakay wrote:
From Dr Todorov of SmartSkinCare.com:

"A word about vitamin A. Some experts (usually non-scientists) include various forms of vitamin A (such as retinol, retinal and retinyl palmitate) among retinoids. Physiologically speaking, vitamin A is not a retinoid because it does not interact directly with retinoid receptors. Cells have to first convert vitamin A to retinoic acid (i.e. to tretinoin or other retinoid). The rate of such conversion is low and varies significantly among individuals. What does this mean in practice? Low strength topical vitamin A formulations are usually ineffective - not enough of vitamin A is converted into a retinoid. Stabilized, high strength topical vitamin A may be effective, but due to variability in conversion rates the results are far less consistent than with true retinoids and the side effects may be almost as significant."

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/retinoids.html

In order for retinyl palmitate or retinyl acetate to have any kind of effect on your skin, it must effectively convert to retinoic acid.


Hm...thanks for posting this. It sure makes me reconsider to keep using my Retin A in my skincare outine, only instead of daily much less frequent, only once, or twice tops a week. Maybe in combination with a buffereing topical like a biological oil applied underneath? If I only do it once a week, the irritation should no be a problem in terms of irritation. I would be sure to get tretinoin in its active form to the skin cells. Plus by reducing frequency I will avoid the other longterm side effect Dr.Huber mentiones like skin thinning, sun sensitivity, discoloration and receptor overload leading to irritation.

What do you think??
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