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Ascorbyl palmitate 10X higher skinlevels vs L'ascorbic acid?
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Monica34
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Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:50 pm      Reply with quote
http://ezinearticles.com/?Vitamin-C-But-Which-One---Ascorbyl-Palmitate-or-Absorbic-Acid&id=96296


Vitamin C ester

Vitamin C ester (Ascorbyl palmitate) has been added to a number of skin creams due to interest in its antioxidant properties as well as the important role of vitamin C in collagen synthesis. Vitamin C Ester is fat-soluble and as such rapidly penetrates the skin.

The increased absorption of vitamin c ester has actually been measured by scientists at Proctor & Gamble. They were able to show that vitamin C ester is absorbed much more quickly and achieves levels ten times higher in the skin than Asorbic Acid.
katee
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Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:28 pm      Reply with quote
My understanding is that the higher absorption was when it was taken orally. To be honest, I've found that topical application of it is almost completely ineffective.
Molly
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:03 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
Vitamin C ester

Vitamin C ester (Ascorbyl palmitate) has been added to a number of skin creams due to interest in its antioxidant properties as well as the important role of vitamin C in collagen synthesis. Vitamin C Ester is fat-soluble and as such rapidly penetrates the skin.

The increased absorption of vitamin c ester has actually been measured by scientists at Proctor & Gamble. They were able to show that vitamin C ester is absorbed much more quickly and achieves levels ten times higher in the skin than Asorbic Acid.


That's a really vague and superficial article. I reckon it's misreported or over simplified. If you could find me the research itself then I'd be impressed. I can't understand why they only refer to Ascorbyl palmitate as if it's the only ester unless they're ignorant and then for the rest of it they just say C-ester as if it's all the same. Plus having higher levels (of what they don't say? Does it convert to Ascorbic?) doesn't necessarily mean it's doing anything. It's not linked to the research, but it is linked to sites selling vitamins. Does it say it stimulates collagen production? No! Seems to me Tetra's more successful. I think even your Dr Huber would concur seeing as it's in his C serum. You see hardly any skincare companies relying solely on Ascorbyl palmitate in a product.

I don't think it's sensible to hit on one dodgy , superficial paragraph making tall claims and take that over what they tell you on smartskincare (I saw your posts) where they have no financial interest and examine the research.
fifi
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:57 am      Reply with quote
Sorry if this is hijacking, but since there are vitamin c buffs looking at this thread I thought it would be a good place to ask if anyone has heard of methylsilanol ascorbate? I think it's supposed to be a good stable form of vitamin c but haven't been able to find much information on it.
katee
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:54 am      Reply with quote
I agree Molly. My own experience is that the combination of l-ascorbic acid and tetra proves that the whole is often much greater than the sum of its parts. I know that some people can't tolerate l-ascorbic acid. From everything that I've read, tetra seems to be the wave of the future for them.
Monica34
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:06 am      Reply with quote
Molly wrote:
Quote:
Vitamin C ester

Vitamin C ester (Ascorbyl palmitate) has been added to a number of skin creams due to interest in its antioxidant properties as well as the important role of vitamin C in collagen synthesis. Vitamin C Ester is fat-soluble and as such rapidly penetrates the skin.

The increased absorption of vitamin c ester has actually been measured by scientists at Proctor & Gamble. They were able to show that vitamin C ester is absorbed much more quickly and achieves levels ten times higher in the skin than Asorbic Acid.


That's a really vague and superficial article. I reckon it's misreported or over simplified. If you could find me the research itself then I'd be impressed. I can't understand why they only refer to Ascorbyl palmitate as if it's the only ester unless they're ignorant and then for the rest of it they just say C-ester as if it's all the same. Plus having higher levels (of what they don't say? Does it convert to Ascorbic?) doesn't necessarily mean it's doing anything. It's not linked to the research, but it is linked to sites selling vitamins. Does it say it stimulates collagen production? No! Seems to me Tetra's more successful. I think even your Dr Huber would concur seeing as it's in his C serum. You see hardly any skincare companies relying solely on Ascorbyl palmitate in a product.

I don't think it's sensible to hit on one dodgy , superficial paragraph making tall claims and take that over what they tell you on smartskincare (I saw your posts) where they have no financial interest and examine the research.


I agree Molly - I just happened to stumble upon it yesterday when doing a search on google and was interested to hear what you girls thikn or know about it.
katee
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:20 am      Reply with quote
You agree?!?!?!?

Monica34, I have to say that your posts completely baffle me. If you agree that its not effective in building collagen, then why would you make a diy cream and speak highly of it? How on earth did you get your hands on ingredients so quickly if you just "stumbled upon it."

I also found your posts regarding the use of retinoids to be a bit strange. You speak of what sounds like hypersensitivity, then describe combinations of actives that would burn a hole through an alligator!

I've seen you ask the same questions over and over again on numerous forums. Although you do get answers, often from qualified experts, you seem to ignore the recommendations and just move on to ask the same question someplace else.

I actually do understand why you would want to assess different opinions before making a decision on what to use, but you seem to do something quite different.

I find your approach to be absolutely baffling.
Monica34
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:25 am      Reply with quote
katee wrote:
You agree?!?!?!?

Monica34, I have to say that your posts completely baffle me. If you agree that its not effective in building collagen, then why would you make a diy cream and speak highly of it? How on earth did you get your hands on ingredients so quickly if you just "stumbled upon it."

I also found your posts regarding the use of retinoids to be a bit strange. You speak of what sounds like hypersensitivity, then describe combinations of actives that would burn a hole through an alligator!

I've seen you ask the same questions over and over again on numerous forums. Although you do get answers, often from qualified experts, you seem to ignore the recommendations and just move on to ask the same question someplace else.

I actually do understand why you would want to assess different opinions before making a decision on what to use, but you seem to do something quite different.

I find your approach to be absolutely baffling.


I meant I agree that the article was superficial. I didnt mean that I think that ascorbyl palmitate wont work to increase collage. Its one of the first esters used by different companys incl. Dr Perricone. I am aware there are newer ones which seem to be the preferred kind by for example Dr.Huber. I may try another form at some point. For now I am going to give the simpler AP a try.

I only used the alligator burning peel (an OTC salicylic acid callus/wart remover) on ONE SCAR on my body, and only because this is what Dr Pickart with SB suggested to try. I only used 10% AHA on my face.

The combination of actives - retinoinds, AHA and Vit C is not uncommon. My skin cannot tolerate it and thats why I stopped doing it. Ididnt use it all from the start either. My skin seemed to get used to it only to rebell again. Its s.t. I had to learn about my skin.

I know that I have asked similar questions again at times, because I still fairly new to all of this. I didnt know anything about peels, retinoids, PPD in sunscreen etc until I got into this last November. I has been pretty overwhelming for me. I am not ignoring advice given, but try to sort it all out. Sometimes posting on a couple of forums helps to get more input.
katee
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:34 pm      Reply with quote
I wasn't scolding you Monica34, I was trying to understand where you're coming from.

I use Active Serum and mega doses of Vit C and my skin looks great right now, but I don't have sensitive skin AT ALL. I had gathered from your posts that your skin IS sensitive, which was why I was so perplexed by your treatment approach.

Your questions indicated that you were VERY nervous about using retinoids, and I can understand that. But, if your skin can't tolerate retinoids, there are other actives that you can use to remodel your skin. I just don't see any reason to stress over it, or to do what it seemed that you were considering, which was to use a watered down version of Retin A once per week!

If you're new at this, my advice to you is to go slowly and to have patience. It takes time and patience to fine tune a skincare regimen that will work for you AND you also have to give a product some time in order to judge its effectiveness. If you're nervous about using something, DON'T USE IT.
Monica34
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:59 pm      Reply with quote
Katee, I understand you mean well, though I can also imagine my posting all over the place could be annoying to experienced people like you Wink

As you know, I am following Dr.Hubers input on things with great interest. Thats why I want to see what happens if I use tretinoin at a low strength only twice a week (not that he advocates its use, but he does advise to go easy on the frequency of any retinoid or active in general). If I get irritation, I will not continue using it. I dont know yet how my skin will react on a low frequency program and without any other acids. This is what I should have done from the start - start slow. Sometimes I can be a littel hardheaded

Rolling Eyes
athena123
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:14 pm      Reply with quote
katee wrote:
You agree?!?!?!?

Monica34, I have to say that your posts completely baffle me. If you agree that its not effective in building collagen, then why would you make a diy cream and speak highly of it? How on earth did you get your hands on ingredients so quickly if you just "stumbled upon it."...



Question
Am I wrong in thinking that personal comments regarding someone's behaviour would be better served by PM instead of addressed in an open forum? Come on, chill out!

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44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples.
nyonyakay
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:38 pm      Reply with quote
athena123 wrote:
katee wrote:
You agree?!?!?!?

Monica34, I have to say that your posts completely baffle me. If you agree that its not effective in building collagen, then why would you make a diy cream and speak highly of it? How on earth did you get your hands on ingredients so quickly if you just "stumbled upon it."...



Question
Am I wrong in thinking that personal comments regarding someone's behaviour would be better served by PM instead of addressed in an open forum? Come on, chill out!


Katee, I for one do not believe there was anything untoward or "personal" about your post. You call things as they are, and that is a refreshing quality which should not be muted in any way.

Keep up the posting!
marina
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:40 pm      Reply with quote
Katee for Pres!! Laughing esp. if that new eye thingy she recommended works..
katee
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:11 pm      Reply with quote
athena123 wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that personal comments regarding someone's behaviour would be better served by PM instead of addressed in an open forum? Come on, chill out!


Ummmmmm athena123, I think that Monica34 understood that my comments weren't "personal." And, just in case that wasn't clear, I said that I wasn't scolding her, that I was trying to understand where she was coming from.

Sooooooo... take your own advice, hon, and take a chill pill. Don't create a problem where one doesn't exist.
athena123
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:20 pm      Reply with quote
I call 'em as I see 'em

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katee
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Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:30 pm      Reply with quote
So do I. Cool
melissa49
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Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:55 am      Reply with quote
You guys are so.....full on!

Life's waaayyy to short for me....
carolb69
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Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:24 am      Reply with quote
Monica i wouldnt worry to much about what dr huber says just yet. We've not seen any evidence yet to his claims. There's no need to freak out and worry about everything you put on yr face.

I saw your post about yr old routine and think it was too much..vit c and aha in the am, so you're right in backing of a bit. I just think you could safely use retin a more than twice a week. Same with vitamin c. Retin A has been around for yrs and yrs and the evidence shows that it is good for antiaging. And this was discovered by 'accident' because it did used to be prescribed for acne but after long term use patients found their wrinkles reduced too!
I worried a bit too when i first heard his claims and am still interested in hearing what he says but until then ive backed off a bit mostly because retinol was making my skin sensitive. I still use it 3 days a week atm.

Anyway its up to you how often you use these products but speaking from my own experience googling info for these things can cause alot of confusion with all the contradictory advice out there Confused I know how confusing it can be...sunscreen is another subject that gets confusing too! But so far most of the evidence towards retin a is positive from what i gather. I personally dont plan on ever using it as i know my skin will get way irriated. If i cant use avene's products everyday i dont think it will tolerate retin a!

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