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Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:24 am  |
I bought 5 products:
Firming Serum: Distilled Water, Organic Rosehip Oil
Hyaluronic Acid Serum: Distilled Water, Aloe Juice
Vitamin C, E & Ferulic Serum (10%): Aloe Vera Juice
DMAE Serum (6%): Aloe Vera Juice
Eye'll Be Seeing You
I read the raves (with a pinch of), but my real motivation for buying these was because I’ve been planning to make my own basics for years, but seeing as I’ve been travelling around so much it’s not been possible until recently. I thought buying these would give me a good idea of what was achievable. I used the Vit C, DMAE and firming serum for 2 weeks solid and then got fed up and gave it a break and came back to it again after 10 days or so trying different and less layers for another couple of weeks but couldn’t find a satisfactory way to use it days.
On the positive side the Vitamin C, E & Ferulic gave me the right kind of C serum buzz, but I did find it kind of inconsistent; sometimes it came out transparent and sometimes opaque and sometimes frothy – it doesn’t appear to be well mixed despite me shaking it. Then as I was looking into how to make my own serums I came across lots of strong arguments for not using natural products with L-Ascorbic because of it’s potential to break down the metals (they exist in all natural products – aloe, rosehip, sea extract etc.) and create pro-oxidants in vitro. Having looked some more at this issue there may be some arguments on the other side. I’ve seen reference to some on the DIY site biochemistryofbeauty.com but it’s not operational right now and I can’t find any other defences of it.
The DMAE serum was effective, but works much more slowly than the amine form and it was too much acid on top of the C for me, but that might be my problem because my skin was already sensitive from using the amine form in previous weeks.
The Firming serum seemed to be having a pleasant plumping action, but it was sticky, non-absorbant and slightly coloured on me (I’m assuming the rosehip did this, but I’m not sure) so I switched to using it at night, but I was getting clogged pores on my nose and even a few spots/lumps (underneath my skin type) on one cheek (was using supercop cream on the other – no spots) so I gave it up. I don’t know whether to blame this but I so rarely get spots it was quite unusual. I’m still using it on one of my legs, when I remember, because I’m intrigued by the claims that Matrixyl 3000 might rebuild the blood vessels. To be honest I notice no marked difference between that and the other leg which I’m using a herbal remedy on, but I don’t do it often enough.
The HA serum with sea extract is quite nice and calming. It leaves a sheen on my face, but it works well on my neck and chest so I use it there sometimes.
I had an immediate and strong dislike for The Eye’ll Be Seeing You. It feels somewhat astringent, has a medicinal smell (to me) and leaves an unwanted sheen. I only used it two or three times. (Might give it to my sister for her flaky scalp – everything has it’s use  ).
My biggest problem with all of these serums is the predominance of aloe juice and occasional rosehip so although they appear ‘watery’ I found there was always an unwelcome residue left on my skin and there’s no way I could layer 2 or 3 without wanting to rinse it all off. The DMAE, Vit C and HA serums all give me a distinct layer of sheen and the firming serum seems a little coloured and sticky to me.
So if you don’t like aloe vera nor rosehip oil (only in the firming serum) you might not like these products much. If you do you’ll probably love them. |
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Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:14 am |
Thanx for your reviews Molly - as always I appreciate your subjective objectiveness and straightforward words.
I've got candessence's vit c ferulic vit e serum and the dmae, both in the lower range of %age. My skin is pretty much a novice with these types of products. I have tried my own vit c which was drying and PSF's vit c which was a bit too "oily" - but both were used ages ago and never routinely. I am currently useing only the vit c, because I don't want to overdo it and I want to try out the products separatley to figure out what they do / if they do anything for me.
So far I'd like to say (2 weeks of use):
1. Texture is light and watery, non greasy and sinks in very quickly - literally 2 secs. I have a tendency to dry skin so anything I apply first just "dissapears".
2. I feel a tightening effect after application, that doesn't feel as if I'm drying out.
3. I've been mostly applying this at night, and have woken up with slightly "brighter" skin. Am hopeing for some pore tightening effects.
4. First application I felt slight stickiness on my throat, but that is the only time.
5. I have had no problems with shine, either at night or dureing the day (have also applied in the morning). But as I say I haven't layered different serums...
I will be giving the vit c a rest in 2 weeks time and starting on the dmae then.
To me there is no scent to the "Eye'll be Seeing You". This I use at night and I find it soothing after the battle of getting all traces of mascara off. I don't use it more than once a day though, coz my skin doesn't need it - find that if I do use it morning and night it doesn't sink in properly on my eyelids and am left with oily eyes  |
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Location: Denmark. Me = 32, think I'm combo without oiliness + sometimes sensitive. Have noticed that skin doesn't heal as quickly anymore and I've developed fine lines around my eyes... Hormonal breakouts which are sometimes cystic. PCOS |
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Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:29 am |
| Ruth wrote: |
| Thanx for your reviews Molly - as always I appreciate your subjective objectiveness and straightforward words. |
Well Thanx Ruth - I love the concept of 'subjective objectiveness' I'll stick that on my mantlepiece or my gravestone.
.....and thanks to the others who thanked me 
| Skincareaddicted wrote: |
| Amylola did the apple slice tests and it seems that Candy's C serums would be still effective b/c they were shown to oxidize less so the presence of aloe worries me less. |
Hi Kristen - thanks for the link. I had read it already, but I'd be interested if anyone could dig out those arguments in favour of using natural products alonside L-Ascorbic.
I'm afraid I really don't buy the apple test. For starters apples aren't skin and not sliced skin either. But you could stop apples turning brown with lemon juice or vinegar even and neither of them have high Vit C content so it's the acid doing it. The fact that the Candessence CEF performs so well might be related to why I find it problematic. Heavy duty moisturisers also stop apples turning brown - maybe it's the aloe stopping the air getting to it.
With all that said - if you read the link you posted it's not about *oxidisation* so the apple test means even less. It's about the *breakdown of metals* creating pro-oxidants - this doesn't necessarily mean there would be any colour degredation to the serum and it may still perform it's anti-oxidant actions but with pro-oxidant ones too. Apparantly if you have a higher percentage of L-Ascorbic the risk lessens so the 10% wouldn't be a good choice if you believe this. Anyhow, it's all theory and an interesting debate.
I do see that a lot of DIY producers are happy to use bio-oils in their L-Ascorbic serums, but very few of the mainstream producers do it(Vivier, Cellex-C, Skinceuticals, Cellularskin etc. etc. etc.). ISC being the big exception to that rule. Even companies that like natural products seem to opt for a C-ester rather than mix bio and L-Ascorbic e.g. Juice Beauty.
I won't go on I've read a lot about this lately, but I gave up because I'm trying non-acid approaches anyhow.
Hi Mithai - sorry to hear it didn't work for you. That's a real shame when you actually like using something. |
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Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:42 am |
It seems from Candy's site that she's changed the formulations for the DMAE & CEF serums quite dramatically. From aloe to Propylene Glycol as the main carrier and with silicones so my previous review on those would be null and void on the texture front.
DMAE Serum: Distilled Water, Propyene Glycol (and) water (and)Macrocystis Pyrifera Extract, Marine Extract, DMAE, Sodium Polyacrylate (and) Dimethicone (and) Cyclopentasiloxane (and) Trideceth-6 (and) PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone,
Phenoxyethanol (and) Caprylyl Glycol
Vitamin C, E & Ferulic Serum: Distilled Water,Propyene Glycol (and) water (and)Macrocystis Pyrifera Extract, Marine Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Tocopherol, Ferulic Acid,Sodium Polyacrylate (and) Dimethicone (and) Cyclopentasiloxane (and) Trideceth-6 (and) PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol (and) Caprylyl Glycol
I see it's still got some bio derivatives in the CEF - marine extract and a new algae so I'm wondering why the big changes? Is it down to people breaking out from the aloe or what? (Candy - can you reply yourself? I'm sure it's OK)
Thanks Molly |
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Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:54 am |
Kristen to answer your question about the research, there is not enough research to conclude that plant based ingredients reduce the effectiveness of ascorbic acid serums. But there is also not enough research to conclude that plant based ingredients DO NOT reduce the effectiveness of these serums. The way I look at it (I think that Molly and Liz do too) is that in the absence of evidence one way or the other it is best to take a cautious approach and not use a C serums that contains plant ingredients.
The theory behind why plant ingredients might cause a problem is a reasonable one so I would not discount it by saying it is just a guess. It is based on good logic. For me what it comes down to is whether I am willing to take a chance on something like antioxidant protection and for me the answer is NO. There really is no actually signs that a C serum is performing it's antioxidant ability and therefore I have to base my faith on it's ability to do this on the C serum formula and what I know about that. If I look into this further and do find evidence that would show they cause no problems or that the theory is lacking in light of new evidence then I would readily change my mind but right now I am just not there.
Molly I really am not sure that we can make this two seperate issues of oxidation versus plant materials. The way I understand it is that the ascorbic acid reduces the metal and then the metal can goes on to start a chain reaction of oxidation. The end result is that you end up with oxidized ascorbic acid which cannot do it's work. (It effectively has done it's work to stop the chain reaction started by the redcued metals so how much is left to do the job on your skin?) However, I do think that if there is enough ascorbic acid in the solution (in relation to the amount of metals) then the chain reaction is stopped quickly without too much degradation of the ascorbic acid.
So we can say that the metals act as catalysts but then so does water. Water itself is a catalyst that speeds up the oxidization of ascorbic acid. So in the end it really is all about oxidation of the ascorbic acid. Yes there may be some odd oxidative species generated when metals are present but I am not sure that this it the major concern (someone please correct me if I am wrong on this), I think that chain reaction of oxidization that needs to be stopped by the ascorbic acid is the big concern.
Then we have to keep in mind that this is all theoretical. pH plays a big part-the higher the pH the more likely that the ascorbic acid will oxidize, metals or not. The amount of ascorbic acid also plays a big part and I haven't quite figured out exactly what percentage of ascorbic acid is required for it to act as an antioxidant vs. a proxidant. Then there is the issue of chelators. These really can help. In fact, I will have to research this some more but I recall someone mentioning on the forum ages ago that metals in plants are in a chelated form. If this is true then that makes a big difference in how we look at this.
I guess what it comes down to is how much someone is willing to take a chance on something like antioxidant protection that really is not obvious. I don't trust the apple experiment and I also don't trust that a lack of color change in the serum means it is okay to use. I quote from Dr. Todorov of smartskincare "Unfortunately, the lack of a tint does not, by itself, guarantee the lack of oxidation because the initial product of vitamin C oxidation (dehydroascorbic acid) is colorless." http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/vitc.html |
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