When it's tough to be a vegetarian
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free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:30 pm

...or a semi, at that.

I'm having trouble adjusting to my semi-veg lifestyle Sad

I have given up red meat, and have adhered to this rule for a year- with exceptions maybe once or twice. I'd like to take the next step and exclude pig, because...well, I'm not comfortable with eating it. The trouble?

I LOOOOOVE MEAT...

I really miss eating steaks, and roast beef and such, and bacon, ohhh bacon. I eat a little pig every month but I'd like to do away with it completely.

I just find it really hard to deal with the cravings. Does anyone have any advice for getting through these trying times? And any recommendations for meat substitutes that I could try?

free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:39 pm

My suggestion would be don't bother with the meat substitutes, they're over processed, high in fat and taste nothing like meat - very disappointing. I hvae tried many times over the past 20 years to go vegetarian and failed miserably, so good luck to you.

If you do want to try some meat subsititues, the only two that I have found that were any good are Sanitarium tvp (textured vegetable protein) mince substitute, makes a half decent bolognaise sauce and filling for moussaka. Also by Sanitarium there is a sausage roll substitute mix which is good, but a bit too salty and probably too heavily spiced for kids.

If you're really desperate you could always try aversion therapy, get lots of promotional material from groups like the RSPCA and PETA showing gruesome images of animals being mistreated, or you could just decide that once a month you are going to break your vegetarianism and have one big meat meal.

Once again I wish you well.

free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:30 pm

I agree with LuckyLouie--- go to PETA's website and check out pictures of slaughter houses, animals being messily killed, etc--- I think you'll lose your appetite for meat pretty quickly. I've been a vegetarian all my adult life so unfortunately it's harder for me to remember what it was like when I first went vegetarian, but what I can tell you is that once you get used to it, meat won't even be appetizing to you any more. DH was eating some store bought pot roast tonight (goodness knows I wouldn't cook that foul stuff!) and not only was the smell disgusting to me, but he pulled a bone out of it and I swear I darn near threw up, so there's hope for you yet, not to worry! Laughing

Anyways, I know you're struggling, but I just wanted to tell you that I think it's wonderful that you're doing this--- keep up the good work!

free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 pm

It's wonderful that you're trying, it sound like it hard for you. I've been veg for so long, meat is utterly unappetizing. I would think that having meat substitutes would be like having sugar free chocolate and maybe would make your cravings stronger. Also make sure you're getting adequate protein. Beans, soy, etc. It will take a little work, but will be so good for your body. And the animals will thank you! Smile

free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:41 pm

Those PETA's videos will traumatize you.. I've been a vegetarian almost all my life also, so I don't crave for meat, infact, I gag when I smell anything that is meat. My body just doesn't love the smell. DH used to be a meat eater when we were dating, but now he converted to vegetarian 100%. He even thinks vegetarian food taste better. Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:43 pm

I really like most the meat substitutes I've tried. My favorites include: Morning Star Bacon, Original Chicken Patties, Corn Dogs,Black Bean Burgers, Publix Green Wise Sausage, Boca Pizza. Meat substitutes have never made me crave real meat.
And when people say "if you eat meat substitutes that means deep down you really want to eat meant" I tell them that I love grape flavored foods but but dislike real grapes...same kind of thing.

Sometimes I cheat but never with beef. I heard an interview with the man who actually slaughtered the first mad cow in the U.S. Lord was it disturbing.

At least you are trying FrevaKZ Smile

I think you should try meat substitutes if you think they will help your cravings. Just don't expect them to taste exactly like the real stuff.

free skin care · Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:47 pm

I third what lucky louie said, def check out the PETA videos. Also you might want to read Fast Food Nation. I just went vegan a few months ago - never was too much of a meat eater though.

Like the others here, I'm not too big on the meat substitutes. But, of the meat substitutes I have tried, Quorn makes the best ones. In a curry or stir fry, you can hardly tell the difference between the Quorn 'chicken' tenders and the real thing. Some of the Quorn products have egg ingredients though so you have to read the label carefully if you're trying to go vegan. The Boca 'sausages' are also not too bad.

The absolute hands down worst meat substitute I have ever had is Tofurky Kielbasas. OH these are quite possibly the most rotten food I have ever put into my mouth. REVOLTING. Even my dog would not eat it. I put one in front of her, she sniffed it and looked at me like 'you expect me to eat this crap?'

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:51 am

I agree with the others--- there really are some tasty meat-substitutes out there. Quorn's fake chicken products (I use their fake chicken chunks when I make a vegetarian pot pie, and I buy their tenders too) are so moist and tasty, DH actually requests them even though he usually doesn't like fake meat. Morningstar's Corn Dogs are another stand out. When I was in college my roommate ate a lot of frozen corn dogs, and once she accidentally bought Morningstar's fake ones. She was really frustrated but she ended up eating them anyway so she wouldn't waste money, and it turned out she liked them better than real ones, so after that she always bought Morningstar's.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:58 am

I think you should give up meat, entirely, for a month.

When you don't eat any meat at all, your digestive system stops making the enzymes that digest meat products, so that when you eat meat again, it doesn't taste good, and it's actually a little upsetting to your stomach.

I am a currently a vegetarian, but eat fish and seafood, and limited dairy. I tried first being a vegan, but that was just too hard given that we eat out a lot and don't have time to cook. So I figured this would be my good compromise point.

I've lost like 10 pounds since being a vegetarian, and i think it makes me think more consciously about what I eat.

I've done the no red meat thing in the past too, but never really felt any better physically because having another meat option was just too easy. While it's hard giving up all meat at first, I really think that if you can get past the first 1-2 weeks, you will feel a whole lot better and not even think about what you're not missing anymore.

If that all fails, I guess I would just think that I can't inflict pain on an other intelligent, feeling animal, like pigs and cows. I mean, I couldn't eat my dog and cats!!

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:03 am

stellamaris wrote:

The absolute hands down worst meat substitute I have ever had is Tofurky Kielbasas. OH these are quite possibly the most rotten food I have ever put into my mouth. REVOLTING. Even my dog would not eat it. I put one in front of her, she sniffed it and looked at me like 'you expect me to eat this crap?'

Oh gosh, I had a tofurkey for my Thanksgiving 2 years ago for myself, since my bf's family ate meat. It was awful. The thing came out in a roll, like it was meat in a can. And it was grayish. I don't know why that company would think any vegetarian would want to eat something so unappetizing. I ended up just throwing the thing away and eating beans and vegetables.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:26 am

Haha, funny that you're all against Tofurky (or whatever it is Laughing

) I read in Yoga Journal that there are great turkey substitutes out there and that was one of them. I intended on trying them, but I guess I'll steer clear, now!!

Thanks to EVERYONE for the support <3 I haven't the stomach to view the garbage on PETA because I know it will haunt me more than it does right now. I'd rather not scare myself out of meat, I'm already keyed up as it when it comes to animals...I'm a big animal lover, and that was probably half of the deciding factor in cutting out meat from my diet. I love livestock just as much as doggies and kitties and I don't think that there should be a double standard. I don't eat a lot of meat to begin with anyway, but sometimes I cave, like last week, where I had a piece of hamsteak for like 4 days straight *hides*

Aside from not wanting to eat animal flesh, I find that I feel a lot better in eating a simplistic, more "earthy" diet. It's great coupled with my yoga routines which I started last year. All in all, I like the fresh feeling I get just eating healthy and positively everyday.

I know there are A LOT of icky substitutes out there, I've been through some. But my mom brought these veggie and whole wheat bun burgers the other week and DAMN they taste better than the real thing Very Happy

So I know there has to be good stuff out there...

Has anyone tried vegetarian cheese?
Soy ice cream/yoghurt?
Soy hot dogs?
Any other substitute they'd like to recommend?

Oh oh oh, and that brings me to TOFU!! I've never eaten it before, but I'd like to incorporate it as my main meat replacement. I am eager to learn how to cook it with fish...something I don't think I can ever give up, I love fish Confused

Maybe someday, but I'm not willing to right now, as I am still going through a huge transition.

If anyone has some tofu secrets, feel free to list! And thanks again, all!

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:36 am

You can try to cook vegetable into meat flavour. I had no idea if you could eat egg or not. With eggs, bean curd and different mushrooms, it is possible to cook a maigre meal with meat flavour.
I never do this by myself before, but in Chinese food, there are many of these. Eg. "maigre chicken", "maigre duck" and so on. I had tried "maiger crab meat" and "maiger steaks",too. And trust me, they are tasteful

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:08 pm

I love Loma Linda for hot dogs... DreamSoy for icecream.. and soy cheese, I think it tastes nasty. I still eat the regular cheese. There are vegetable seasonings out there you can get, and mushroom stir-fry sauce which is a substitute to oyster sauce. I get my seasonings at the asian markets.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:10 pm

Amy's burgers are incredible, especially their California burgers.
They don't have any soy in them, just all kinds of vegetables and beans. They are better than any meat burger ever.

As for tofu, I love it. But I've eaten it all my life. It's easiest in stir frys and such. Just get some firm tofu, cut it up, and add it to stir fry.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:27 pm

FrevaKZ wrote:

Has anyone tried vegetarian cheese?
Soy ice cream/yoghurt?
Soy hot dogs?
Any other substitute they'd like to recommend?

Oh oh oh, and that brings me to TOFU!! I've never eaten it before, but I'd like to incorporate it as my main meat replacement. I am eager to learn how to cook it with fish...something I don't think I can ever give up, I love fish Confused

Maybe someday, but I'm not willing to right now, as I am still going through a huge transition.

If anyone has some tofu secrets, feel free to list! And thanks again, all!

Cheese - I have not found any commercial vegan cheeses that I think are good enough to eat on their own, maybe someone else has though. However I have found that homemade nut cheeses are yummy. The nut cheeses I have made end up as more of a ricotta/feta type texture so maybe not what you're looking for.

Ice cream - The Tofutti Cuties ice cream sandwiches are better than the real thing. They have more fat than you would think though, so don't scarf the whole box and think you're being healthy! Laughing

Hot dogs - Quorn are the best I have tried. They taste like the real thing. They can get DRY though if you overcook them so take care not to overcook.

Tofu is easy to cook with. Firm tofu just drain it well before you cook so it will stay firm and not fall apart. Silken tofu you mix into other things. Here are some Alton Brown tofu recipes to get you started (not vegan):

Moo-Less Chocolate Pie
Recipe courtesy of Alton Brown
Show: Good Eats
Episode: Tofuworld
2 cups chocolate chips,
1/3 cup coffee liqueur
1 block silken tofu
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1 tablespoon honey
1 prepared chocolate wafer crust

Place a small metal bowl over a saucepan with simmering water. Melt the chocolate and coffee liqueur in the bowl. Stir in vanilla.

Combine the tofu, chocolate mixture, and honey in the blender jar. Liquefy until smooth.

Pour the filling into the crust and refrigerate for 2 hours, or until the filling is set.

Fillet O'Fu
Recipe courtesy of Alton Brown
Show: Good Eats
Episode: Tofuworld
1 (19-ounce) block firm tofu
2 tablespoons sherry vinegar
2 tablespoons Worcestershire sauce
Few dashes of hot pepper sauce
Canola oil to cover skillet by 1/8-inch
2 eggs
1/2 cup all-purpose flour

Slice the block of tofu into 4 equal portions. Place the slices on paper towels and fold the towels over in both directions to cover the tofu. Place a baking sheet on top of the tofu and weigh it down with a 28-ounce can of tomatoes for 1 hour.

Combine the sherry vinegar, Worcestershire sauce, and hot pepper sauce and place the tofu into the marinade. Marinate for 15 minutes on each side.

Place the flour into a shallow dish and the eggs into another. Lightly beat the eggs.

Heat the canola oil in the skillet over medium-high heat.

Remove tofu from marinade and drain on paper towels to remove any excess marinade.

Lightly dredge the tofu in the flour, knocking off any excess flour and slide into the eggs until completely, but thinly, coated on both sides.

Slide tofu gently into the hot oil and fry for 2 minutes until golden brown and delicious. Flip the tofu using the tongs, and cook for another 2 minutes.

oh, edited to add that for frozen dinners, pretty much anything Amy's is yum. I

the roasted vegetable pizza (no cheese). It has caramelized onions, artichokes, roasted red pepper, shiitake mushrooms. SO GOOD (if you like caramelized onion).

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:06 pm

I may get pummelled for this, but my recommendation is to NOT give up meat. Did you know that there are some "essential" amino acids in meat that your body can get NO OTHER WAY, that you miss out on by giving up meat? They are called "essential" because your body cannot produce them on its own, plus you NEED them for optimum health. Did you know that the muscle in your body is created and maintained by protein, most of which comes from meat products? Creatine comes from meat which helps keep water in your muscles, and your body is almost 70% water so without it you won't have an optimum balance of water in your system either.

In my opinion to give up meat is to resign your bodily function to a lower than optimal status.

This is just my opinion, but I believe in it strongly.

John

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:45 pm

John, I take umbrage at your implication that my beliefs are in any way causing my body harm. First of all, don't insult my intelligence by telling me that I need meat for protein. A single serving of Tofurkey provides 26 grams of protein. My husband's roast turkey provides 21 grams of protein per serving. Not only that, but a small 8 oz glass of milk provides 8 grams of protein. Have a large glass and you get 16 grams. Throw in a scoop of soy powder and you get 30 grams of protein. Trust me when I say that of all the things vegetarians need to be concerned about, protein is not among them. As far as amino acids go, again, I do not consider this anywhere close to being a valid concern. There 9 amino acids that our body cannot produce, so these must be obtained through our food. Corn, potatos, legumes, rice, tofu, and many other foods contain these amino acids. Maybe not in quite as high of a quantity as red meat, but they are there, and if we eat anything close to a balanced diet, we will get more amino acids than we need.

I could easily turn the tables around on you John and point out that people who regularly eat red meat and/or processed meat are up to 50% more likely to get colon cancer. I could point out that vegetarians are far less likely to be obese, and they are far less likely to have clogged arteries. I could also point out the cruel unfairness of treating some animals like valued members of the family while supporting the cramped, joyless, miserable lives and then messy, painful, bloody deaths of other animals. However, I understand that my lifestyle is not for everyone. I chose it for myself, and while I'm more than happy to offer my support and encouragement to others who would like to follow a similar lifestyle, I do not try to push my lifestyle on others, DESPITE the fact that I think it is not only the best choice for one's body, but also the best choice for the environment and the best choice for one's conscience. Because of this, I would appreciate if at the very least you would show me the respect of NOT denigrating my life choice as being unhealthy, unwise, and untenable.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:09 pm

Stellamaris, you are KILLING me with those recipes!! TOFU is a wonderful food.. and fabodabo as a meat substitute.

I have only tried meat substitute ONCE and that was in high school when I had to use Sanitarium nut loaf to make a meatless meatloaf and it was DISGUSTING.

My question to FrevaKZ would be about why you are giving up meat... health? religion? hormone-additives? slaughtering process? confinement of animals?

If it is a case of the last 3, then perhaps if you HAVE to have some meat you could find somewhere that offers animals without harmful feed and injections, that have a free-range life (or better still fed beer, played Beethoven, and brushed daily like Japanese wagyu cows) and killed in a humane manner. Of course they are going to be very expensive, but if you only have them every so often, then that should not factor in.

My only real meat weakness is chicken but I always take into consideration those factors when purchasing (even when buying eggs....). I tend to make a lot of vegetarian dishes and bring in proteins from other sources - but as I said before, I do have a very very bad weakness for chook - I could eat it every night.. and we do have fish, though again you have to be careful what type and how much because of potential mercury problems (man, nothing is save anymore).

John, whilst meat is obviously a major source of protein and amino acids, a vegetarian diet does not limit one to a plate of vegetables at every meal. There are many options out there for supplimenting the iron, protein and other nutrients supplied by meats.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:04 pm

I've always admired people who manage to go without meat. Not only does it take dedication, but extra culinary creativity IMHO. There's never been a better time than now to go meatless with all of the options and alternatives available these days.

I think in general many people in developed countries, particularly in the west, eat too much meat and not enough vegetables, fruits and whole grains. And as manslayerliz pointed out, there are many protein substitutes to choose from -- one need not go without.

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:44 pm

I've gone vegan for religious reasons but many of my friends eat meat and dairy. It's a personal decision - I respect their choices and they respect mine.

I appreciate people like tiger_tim who are well-informed about the source of their meat, eggs and dairy and make an effort to choose humanely produced products. Well-informed meat-eating consumers make a big difference in improving the lives of farm animals. The more consumers that demand humanely produced meat, dairy, and eggs, the more farm animals will be raised humanely. That makes a difference!

John, as manslayerliz and tiger_tim said, there are options for veggies like me to supplement our diets. We can even be bodybuilders like you! Although I will grant you that it is much easier to build muscle while eating meat and using whey protein, vegans can build muscle as well. We do have to work harder and supplement carefully though!

As far as you eating meat goes, I would think that as bodybuilders you and your wife would be very particular about what you choose to eat, so I would think that you would choose hormone-free, organic meats and dairy whenever possible just for your own health. I would hope that you would also consider the suffering (both animal and human!) that occurs in factory farms and slaughterhouses and seek out humanely produced meat, eggs, and dairy.

Having said all that (whew!), there's room for everyone here as long as there's respect and compassion on both sides!

free skin care · Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:25 pm

I used to be a vegetarian...I was one for 6 years, but then I dove into the depths of anorexia (as giving up meat ended up leading to giving up food altogether Embarassed

). I have respect for both sides. I eat meat now, I have severe blood sugar problems that sometimes meat is the only way I can get stable again and stay that way. I also had severe anemia so I decided to re-introduce meat into my diet.

I really try to be aware of where my meat is coming from. I hate the thought of animals being treated inhumanely, my family's roots are on the farm and my grandpa was very concerned with this.
A few of my friends are vegan, others eat dairy, eggs, some even eat fish (yes yes, I realize that some may not call these people who eat fish vegetarians...I myself like to think of myself as a flexitarian...but I won't sit there and tell those of my friends who eat fish what they are or not). No one should tell the other they are wrong for choosing NOT to eat meat. Just as one shouldn't tell anyone they are wrong for eating it. To each his/her own.

There are many things in life that people are fiercely divided on and very personal about...religion, family, orientation, and food! Smile

free skin care · Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:17 am

I'm afraid I can't give any suggestions other than moral support since I tried to become a vegetarian when I was married to a vegetarian, and I failed miserably. I lasted about 3 months not eating any meat or eggs. I craved meat too much (not just red meat, any meat), and I was never really a big meat eater. Anyway, I'm so glad I divorced the guy now, and I can eat whatever meat I want. hehe (I used to have to hide my chicken from him in the freezer, or he would throw my chicken away.)

free skin care · Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:24 am

Stellamaris- THanks for the recipes and reviews! I'll look for the names you mentioned and stay clear of the cheese Laughing

Looks like I'll find alternatives for that later on down the road.

John C. Hill- I appreciate your concern Smile

But like manslayerliz said, you don't need any meat to live a healthy lifestyle. There are tons of protein alternatives without the added fat and health risks associated with some meats (most notably, red meat). Milk, tofu, peanut butter, rice, soy milk, yoghurt, eggs, fish just to name a few are excellent sources of protein.

Protein intake is what I'm watching most carefully right now- my breakfast of a bran muffin, soy milk and yoghurt has a whopping 16g of protein right there. If you do your research correctly, you'll see that there are great ways to get your protein and essential aminos. Albeit, it'll be quite a bit more work in planning, but it does pay off in the end when you're more aware of what you're eating.

Human beings have everything they need to survive in a vegetarian diet. Animals are indulgences.

tiger-tim- Thanks for asking Laughing

My main concern for giving up meat is animal welfare. I've heard horror stories and I know I need not look for proof to substantiate these stories. I'd rather not support an industry that is rather finance driven and separate from the "good old farm" image and basis that it used to be. Animals are my friends, and I don't think it should be that "just domestic animals" are my friends, and excluding cows, and pigs and whatnot. I love them all, and I have a dream to eventually have my own farm for pleasure purposes- with lots of free animals to live and do as they please Laughing

I'm no longer in support of religion, but have found myself moving to a highly spiritual "flow" (haha) the past year especially, and this is also the basis of my decision to give up meat. It is my opinion that when we practice non-harm to other beings, we heal ourselves, no matter how small or "insignificant" the other beings are deemed as (yes, this means I won't even kill bugs, but I WILL scream hysterically and make my mom move them). It's just a great feeling overall.

The last and minor reason would be healthwise, of course. To maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle, and to keep chemicals and additives out of my body. Even if it's just a small risk, I feel better eating as naturally as I can. *gets off soap box*

I have definitely thought about organic, free-range meat. There are chickens of that type sold here, and I do believe my small meat diet will consist of free-range until I can phase it out over the next few years. Great suggestion!

THanks for all your stories and opinions, everyone. It's great to receive support, opposition and perspective. I'm really happy to know that there are others out there who have succeeded where I am trying, and those who are making the best consumer choices for our earthly friends Very Happy

You guys rock.

free skin care · Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:36 am

FrevaKZ wrote:

It is my opinion that when we practice non-harm to other beings, we heal ourselves, no matter how small or "insignificant" the other beings are deemed as (yes, this means I won't even kill bugs, but I WILL scream hysterically and make my mom move them). It's just a great feeling overall.

OMG FrevaKZ Shock

I really have to applaud you... I find it absolutely impossible to be warm and fuzzy toward the wellbeing of cockroaches ... Laughing

... actually I have the same feeling toward pigeons, but that is another story... Laughing

I wish I could find that kind of inner peace...

free skin care · Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:20 am

Oh tell me about it, I'm deathly afraid of spiders, but as much as i scream to OMGGETITAWAYGETITAWAY I get mad when my mom bashes it Laughing

I just learn to ignore flies in the summer time and "evacuate" bugs that I'm not afraid of.

I just live by the belief that everything should have a right to live. I know this is hard when dealing with icky crawly things though, haha. It's a great way to live though, a good positive mindframe...anyone can change their thinking a little to be like this! Very Happy

So good luck in the future if you ever decide to be cockroach friendly, haha.

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