DermaRoller
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free skin care · Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:10 pm

DermaBoy wrote:

Thank you for your responses. After reading some of these responses I'm starting to lean towards taking a longer break between rolling sessions with a 1.5 mm roller.

I've been doing it once a week because I was too anxious to see results. I wasn't exactly sure if derma rolling worked so now that I know I am seeing improvement in my scars after 8 sessions in 3 months (which is quite a bit i know) I will definitely slow down the pace.

I'm impressed with you DB! Instead of standing your ground, you are showing that you are really open minded enough to consider the "other side." I really think it will serve you well by giving your skin some extra healing time.
Good luck with it.

free skin care · Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

Firefox,

How do we pre-soften the skin and how does it help?

Thanks, bfg

Sarah Vaughter says to "soften the skin to make it easier for the needles to penetrate and preserve needle sharpness the longest, have a hot back or long hot shower just before rolling. You can also just steam your face when only rolling the face."
http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf
I figure sharp needles make less damage, which sounds bad from the inflammation POV, but we want neat pinprick holes not to mush up the surface by having to press hard. Pain-wise it seems to get the session over and done with more quickly, which means I don't bottle out by the time I finish my forehead!

Slow washing at the sink also works. I sometimes use a lotion (ie. water based) cleanser well massaged in followed by a foaming one for hygiene. If I have exfoliated relatively recently I don't always bother. I do my main exfoliation with lactic acid which is a humectant as well as a keratolytic, and there can be a reservoir in the skin for a few days. A urea-based moisturiser a few days before is an alternative or another.

Please post back if you try it, it can be YMMV with these guidelines. Confused

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:10 am

It seems the steaming thing would only work for more superficial rolling and if you weren't doing the numbing creme
first, since that needs time to penetrate and any effect from the steam would be gone by then. I'm sure there are people out there than can roll a 1.0 or longer without the topical, but there is no way I can, ouch!

free skin care · Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:32 am

foxe wrote:

That's interesting that you see minimal peeling using your method, mountaingirl. Do you think the infoldan is the main reason for this?

Also, can you feel the vitamin C going in at all the next day? Does it feel like the chambers are open at all at that point?

I do think the Infadolin does minimize the peeling. Its like an A&D ointment..very thick and greasy so its lubricating the swollen/stretched skin. The Vit C is absorbed by the skin just fine the next morning, but aren't "the chambers" closed within an hour of the initial roll? I'm about to turn the corner to age 60 yet my skin has never looked better. Of course I'm fighting loss of elasticity, but quality of my skin is amazing. Retin A, AALS and Rolling, ROCKS!

free skin care · Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:57 am

HamCheeseSandwich wrote:

mountaingirl wrote:

Yeah...you need to roll more than that to get a better bang for your buck. That is like "tip toeing through the tulips." Very lightweight. Who is this person who made the video and what is her expertise? BTW, I do think drawing blood is a sign that you're going to get some benefits, but probably not necessary or wise if you are doing frequent rolls.

She(my friend)is very cautious with that kind of things(almost too if you ask me Rolling Eyes

)and she thinks that the Dermaroller can damage her skin in the long run.

Nevertheless, she still wants to use it and when i asked her why she said because she hasn’t got that much money and micro needling is an inexpensive method(compared to laser treatments for example)but still can be very effective for stretchmarks and wrinkles (which are the skinproblems that she’s going to use the Dermaroller for) and she knows another woman who had really improved her stretchmarks with the Dermaroller.

So she has ''developed'' a Dermarolling Routine for herself and she truly believes that this is the safest and best way to do it.

Two days ago i asked her to explain this routine to me and she answered that she will make a little quick video about it (that explains the poor quality vid, lol) and yesterday she posted it on YouTube.

When i saw this video yesterday, I was a little bit confused, because i thought that you had to roll more times and i was wondering if it is going to be effective if she’s going to do the Dermarolling like that
But i must admit, i don’t know much about Dermarolling either.
Do you have any experience with dermarolling?
Do you know the right manner to roll in this pattern, maybe ?.. (sorry for this long post;p)

Hi HCS,

I have not dermarolled yet, but have read on it a lot, may start soon?

Anyway I think you might find the instructions on this site helpful. Very Happy

http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermarolling-explained/

HTH

free skin care · Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:42 am

Ham...DarkMoon is right. Get your info from the website she posted. There are so many folks on here developing their own protocols for dermarolling, that it's best to get advice from the experts since we are the canary's in this (dermarolling) coalmine! I also follow the instructions on the owndoc site. If you want to go straight to the instruction booklet, here is the link. I printed it out so I have it ready to review each time I prepare to Roll. http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdfime

Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:43 am

Wow i like the forum. The lady who runs the site (vaugan or something like that) is really helpfull in her answers.
She sounds like she knows what she’s talking about, if i may say so:)
I will recommend this site to Yolanda next time i speak to her.

Sun May 06, 2012 12:03 pm

I almost feel like I should apologize for posting on dermarolling in this thread, since it's been somewhat taken over by the (indeed interesting) discussion on LED above Smile

I did my first facial 1.5 mm dermaroll two days ago, and boy, do I have the uglies now Shock

. Bruises on the upper eye area that can't be totally covered by concealer, pinpoint red marks across the ridge of the nose and the lower forehead, angry red crepey patches on the cheekbones and everything topped off with dry and peeling skin all over my face. Plus I have gotten a very nasty infected dimple right on the cheek, though I'm assuming that's unrelated to the roll.

Not only will I have to go back into work tomorrow, I even have an important session with a bunch of clients - the more to see my ragged face, the merrier, I guess Rolling Eyes

.

All in all I would advise any first timers with the "big" needles to plan for more than two days of downtime!

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 1:31 pm

CPHgirl- you're just getting the thread back on the right track, no worries

Quote:

I almost feel like I should apologize for posting on dermarolling in this thread, since it's been somewhat taken over by the (indeed interesting) discussion on LED above

Oh you poor girl - so sorry to hear about your wreak heading into work tomorrow. Can you claim 'sunburn'?

Quote:

I did my first facial 1.5 mm dermaroll two days ago, and boy, do I have the uglies now . Bruises on the upper eye area that can't be totally covered by concealer, pinpoint red marks across the ridge of the nose and the lower forehead, angry red crepey patches on the cheekbones and everything topped off with dry and peeling skin all over my face. Plus I have gotten a very nasty infected dimple right on the cheek, though I'm assuming that's unrelated to the roll.

Not only will I have to go back into work tomorrow, I even have an important session with a bunch of clients - the more to see my ragged face, the merrier, I guess .

Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 am

Lacy53 wrote:

There is a thread around here somewhere discussing Infrared Light/Radiation; maybe you (or a mod) can move your posts and continue this discussion there?

Hi all, We have moved the IR/LED discussion as requested to what I hope is the thread Lacy was referring to. Smile

Here is the link:

Infrared Radiation - LED Lights
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35559

free skin care · Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:46 pm

morocha wrote:

I'm in the process of having it totally treated, I have 2 more treatments to remove the abscess. I'm just wondering if the Dermaroller can help tighten the saggy skin caused by the swollen tissue.

I am sure your skin will tighten up on it's own once your swelling is gone.. dermaroller will not tighten a swollen tissue, it may make it worse...

free skin care · Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:10 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

I just got mine a few days ago and put it away for safe keeping ... Embarassed

LOL. I ordered a third.... .2mm smallest, so now have 3 1mm, .5mm and the new .2! I am not as Shock

after seeing how tiny the needles are, but will see once I start? Bad Grin

I didn't see it yet because I didn't want to remove it from it's nice sterile housing until I'm ready to put a load on and get to it.. Laughing

(J/K for those who like to call me a "drunk".. Laughing

)

free skin care · Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:19 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Lotusesther wrote:

What size did you get Kassy?

0.5mm Hopefully I can handle it without any numbing product.

My goal is the lower face & neck. (I keep seeing the picture Beth posted in my minds eye, but I think she used the larger size.) Oy! Shock

I have a .5 mm too and it's doable! But I do have a nice glass of red wine with it, for encouragement and instant reward Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:09 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Lotusesther wrote:

What size did you get Kassy?

0.5mm Hopefully I can handle it without any numbing product.

My goal is the lower face & neck. (I keep seeing the picture Beth posted in my minds eye, but I think she used the larger size.) Oy! Shock

I have a .5 mm too and it's doable! But I do have a nice glass of red wine with it, for encouragement and instant reward Very Happy

I think you'll find the 0.5 manageable. Most likely you won't have any bleeding from it. I don't. It'll sting a little. You might get some sneezing when you roll your forehead. And you'll be red for a few hours afterwards.

I just took delivery of a 1.0 roller and a 1.5 dermastamp, and I'm looking at those with a little trepidation. I'm going to try icing first. I did get emla, but would like to see if I can handle it without. The ice aupposedly provides some numbness...I hope so!

free skin care · Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:06 pm

understatement wrote:

I was wondering if it's okay to use vitamin e oil after dermarolling? I'm using a 1.5 mm needle on my hips and thighs for stretch marks. The following day after dermarolling I apply a shea butter-based mixture that I made myself that has vitamin e oil. Was wondering if this was a good or bad idea? I heard that using Aloe Vera is a bad thing after dermarolling for stretchmarks since it can cause the body to not produce as much collagen . Was wondering if this is true with vitamin e oil? Also, has anyone used lavender oil for stretch mark treatment?

I heard that rosehip seed oil is excellent for stretch marks.

free skin care · Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:44 am

bethany wrote:

If you read about the wound healing cascade in the dermarolling studies, you will see that inflammation is a required part of the process. I personally don't do anything to limit inflammation for at least 3 days.

Here is a great article on the wound healing phases, and the importance of inflammation...see page 57. You will also see in the same article that it is important to pre and post treat with Vit A and C.

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

And here is the link to other studies and articles on dermarolling:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

Alternatively, you can purchase a book recently written on rolling by a doctor who trained under Dr. Fernandes:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Concise-Guide-Dermal-Needling/dp/0473173212

free skin care · Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:22 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Bethany, will you be using the AnteAGE after rolling, and if so, what day will you add that in on?

I am going to try it post roll, but will not use it until about day 5. But I want to do a little more reading in the new book and see if that changes my mind at all. I'll let you know what I decide.

free skin care · Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:27 pm

Glad everything went well bethany. When I use the Emla I feel nothing, just a bit of dread.

Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Congratulations, Bethany! What we do for vanity, huh? Hanging out for an hour with bits of freezer wrap stuck to the face, followed by poking thousands of holes in it with needles. A fun evening indeed!! Laughing

free skin care · Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:35 pm

daler wrote:

OMG! these are bloody photos! now you deserve to see good results CookieD!

It's pretty funny because it hurt me just to look at Bethany's pictures but I was so happy I got so much blood when I rolled. The things we do for vanity. Laughing

I didn't realize the pictures would come out so large but I have no idea what I'm doing with a camera.

Thanks erg. I hope you get good results if you end up doing it. I did do a couple of test spots with the EMLA the night before to check for how long and to what degree the numbness would be. (I didn't roll those spots just tested the cream) I do think overall I have very tough resilient skin and a fairly high tolerance for pain. I can highly recommend the ELMA cream if you want to go that route. I know some people roll without it and I might try that at a later date but for my first time, just from a mental aspect I didn't want to feel anything. I bought the cream off of Amazon. It came from Europe. I can look for the link to the buyer if you want me to.

free skin care · Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:49 pm

jwaduveev wrote:

CookieD wrote:

It also has pictures of how many microchannels are created in your skin depending on the number of passes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160154/

This was very interesting, CookieD; thanks for posting the link. Being able to see the number of channels created from the first roll through subsequent rolls was helpful and has inspired me to roll more aggressively next time around.

Thank you also for posting your post-roll photos in late December. Can you tell me how long after the roll you felt your face looked 'normal' enough to go out in public?

Hi jwaduveev, My skin the next day looked pink. As if I had been out in the sun too long. I didn't have any bruising. The pink color decreased over the next two or three days until you couldn't tell any difference. I don't wear any makeup but for me at least I would say by 3 days after I was back to normal. I do consider myself to have tough skin so if you have more sensitive skin it may take longer.

free skin care · Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:57 pm

Hi!

I completed my second roll of the new year last night using a 1.5 mm dermaroller. It takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to roll my face and neck.

I do aggressive rolls, to my tolerance, and have gotten more aggressive with each roll over the years.

I stretch the skin as I roll over it. This seems to help to cause pinpricks of blood. I am still using the star pattern. I bleed a lot, I really mean a lot. Once I wipe the area, there is no more bleeding. I try to roll vigorously over my entire face and front of my neck down to my chest. I am trying to focus more on the skin at my hairline, eye area, nasolabial folds, my "1", under my chin and neck.

I look horrid today and plan to stay home the entire weekend. I am very red and would not leave the house looking like this. For this roll, I prepped with Retin-A evenings and Vitamin C serum mornings. I applied EMLA for about an hour for pain, covered it with segments of plastic, and wiped it off before rolling. After my roll, I juiced and drank the vegetable juice on an empty stomach to allow all the nutrients to enter my system. I made a DIY oil soluble C and A serum that I put on before going to sleep. Today, I am using my oil soluble A and C and also raw, organic palm oil throughout the day.

After my last roll, on a Friday evening, I was so red 12-24 hours later, 48 hours later better, but still red, I snuck into the gym to do a long steam sauna and 60 hours later on Monday morning I was back at work. My skin was back to normal, no one could tell a thing, in fact I got several compliments that week on how great my skin looks. Probably had something to do with eating really well, resting, and the DIY skin products that I used. I know that in six months, the results will be terrific.

I am not suggesting that anyone follow my routine, just sharing my information for those that are curious about what others are doing. It is vital for you to do your own research and develop a program that works for you.

Aggressive dermarolling is not easy but soooo worth it.

HGG

free skin care · Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:39 pm

Hi ShastaGirl,

The primary benefits for me are:
1. thicker skin
2. eradicated hyperpigmentation
3. refined pores

I compared photos from my 30's, 40's, and now 50's and my skin tone is the best now. I had hyper pigmentation in younger years and I don't really even have a freckle now. The best part for me is the thicker skin, which takes months to happen. When I began dermarolling, I could feel the difference in my skin thickness (about 6 months later) when I did facial exercises and massage. I had been doing FE for years before DR and knew how my skin felt.

I have improved my neck skin, from looking a little like chicken skin to being much smoother. I am still hoping for more skin tightening with time. However, I recognize that I am aging and my crows feet, which I have had since my 20's are a constant struggle. I just want to look the best that I can within a DIY capacity. I try to strengthen the muscles, including my neck, with exercises and hope that the skin will firm up from DR. Dr. Fernandez's skin looks amazing! I would like to incorporate more DR for product penetration into my routine.

For awhile, I did not treat my eye skin like I was treating the rest of my face. My facial skin was improving while my eye area did not change. A few years ago I began doing the same skin treatments to my eye area and that has worked for me.

P.S., I am exhausted the day after a roll and really just rest the next day. Does that happen to others as well?

free skin care · Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:53 am

I suspect lack of topicals can be made up by good diet, as Needl said, or even supplements. I take a lot of oral vit C and eat lots of liver for vitamin A. I'm not an expert, however, and mine is an experiment in progress.

I have another question, though. Hopefully more experienced needlers (BFG, Keliu, bethany, LauraLizzie, CookieD, etc.) will chime in...do you guys see the value of the "short" (0.2 - 0.5) roll in between more aggressive sessions every six weeks?

free skin care · Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:32 pm

bethany wrote:

Barefootgirl wrote:

Generally I recommend that the patient should have six sessions of needling done once a week under topical anaesthesia, or if they prefer, they could have one intensive session done with nerve block. The difference is that with the lighter sessions under topical anaesthesia, they can return to work the very next day, whereas after an intensive needling, they will be swollen and bruised for about four days.

I wonder what length of needles he is referring to here - that would be used once per week...

To augment the results, I suggest the use of very low concentration peeling agents which “sterilize” the wound and also seem to promote even more growth factor release. I wonder topicals he is referring to here?

BFG

I am thinking 1mm or 1.5mm needles. But then how long until the next 6 week treatment?

I am not sure on what topicals he is recommending...maybe salicylic acid? And how much time after the treatment should this be applied....immediately? two weeks later?

I just found some info on a peel Dr F "created"....

http://www.rejuven.co.uk/treatments/skin/environ-advanced-skin-peeling

http://www.dermalintegrity.com/lenviron.html

http://www.facethefuture.co.uk/shop/environ/home-peels/cat_224.html

http://www.beautyinthebag.com/wordpress/environ-launches-lacm-cool-peels/

http://www.watersideskincare.co.uk/treatment/environ-skin-clearing-treatment/

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