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Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:00 am  |
Sharky, very well said.
Platinumrose, why do you have to lay down flat for 30 minutes with this mask? I would love to try it, but I don't know if I could lay flat for 30 minutes (without my dogs licking my face!) |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:44 am |
I have a treat for you; but you have to promise you won't hate me for being beautiful.
I'm the former dork who formerly over-used the dermaroller, etc., and made a mess. I think it's been two weeks since I stopped all tampering to let the skin heal. (It seems like two years!) this is what I have now and it looks unhealthy to me. http://creamycomplexion.blogspot.com/
Any recommendations or observations or clues for making an improvement? |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:13 am |
| chinachatters wrote: |
I have a treat for you; but you have to promise you won't hate me for being beautiful.
I'm the former dork who formerly over-used the dermaroller, etc., and made a mess. I think it's been two weeks since I stopped all tampering to let the skin heal. (It seems like two years!) this is what I have now and it looks unhealthy to me. http://creamycomplexion.blogspot.com/
Any recommendations or observations or clues for making an improvement? |
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It looks very irritated. I would be gentle as possible with it and put soothing things on it like Aloe Vera. Protect it from the sun, baby it and discontinue anything irritating until it's healed, then just start back slowly and gently with treatments if you wish.
Sometimes, I've noticed when I'm too aggressive with my skin, it takes longer to heal and look normal than I think it will. I get all freaked out and think I've permanently damaged my skin, but so far, that hasn't been the case... |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:07 pm |
China, I sent you a PM on your skin about a week ago...read it and PM me back!  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:14 pm |
I'm taking Bethany's suggestion and giving emu oil a try. I just got back from the vitamin store and my face is already slathered in "bird fat." It did something - I could feel a little tingle.
They had bottles of aloe vera gel, but it looked like they were for drinking rather than mixing cosmetics, so I didn't get any.
I rolled my face earlier after about a two-week hiatus. When I rubbed in the emu oil, dead skin rolled off. |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:03 pm |
| chinachatters wrote: |
I'm taking Bethany's suggestion and giving emu oil a try. I just got back from the vitamin store and my face is already slathered in "bird fat." It did something - I could feel a little tingle.
They had bottles of aloe vera gel, but it looked like they were for drinking rather than mixing cosmetics, so I didn't get any.
I rolled my face earlier after about a two-week hiatus. When I rubbed in the emu oil, dead skin rolled off. |
China, have you thought about taking off more than 2 weeks from rolling? In order to successfully generate collagen, you need relatively healthy skin, and optimal levels of Vit A and Vic C before you roll, as well as after.
I am thinking that you may need to take at least a month off from everything and concentrate on increasing hydration, reducing inflammation, etc. I know that is hard to do, but 2 weeks may not be enough recovery time for you. 
So what is your skin plan at the moment, besides the emu oil? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:38 pm |
| I agree with Bethany - I definitely wouldn't be rolling irritated skin. Just use calming products - emu oil is great, but don't know why it tingled, emu oil should not cause tingling. Aloe Vera Gel can usually be found in the after sun care section of the pharmacy. |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:43 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I agree with Bethany - I definitely wouldn't be rolling irritated skin. Just use calming products - emu oil is great, but don't know why it tingled, emu oil should not cause tingling. Aloe Vera Gel can usually be found in the after sun care section of the pharmacy. |
I am wondering if there was something added to the emu, like fragrance or anything else.
Emu never tingles...it is very soothing. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:23 pm |
Two weeks more of doing nothing but soothing. Okay, I understand. That's a hopeful thought, that maybe this isn't permanent. Thank you, both of you. I suppose I should stick with one soothing product, too.
The emu oil is Thunder Ridge from Virginia, 100% pure oil from an American emu. I washed my face and put on another coat for the evening. It's a very faint tingle on my face, but it's definitely not just sitting there the way it is on the backs of my hands and my elbows and my neck and my shoulders . . . It goes a long way. |
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:37 pm |
Hmmm...maybe it's because you rolled today.
And emu does go a VERY long way...you don't need much! But it is a penetrating oil (meaning it is actually absorbed by the skin), and any actives that you put on first get pulled right in too. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:02 am |
| Chinachatters, what skin care are/were you using along with the dermaroller and the light, and what sunscreen do you use? I think your skin looks irritated, but it also looks like you have areas of hyperpigmentation. |
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Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:59 pm |
| Mogulicious: I use Esnatri cream usually in the morning on my neck and jowl area. Sometimes I also use it in the evening right after rolling. I've been using about it for a year. My neck area is in reasonably goos shape for my age. |
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50+, combo skin, roller fan |
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Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:15 pm |
| sharky wrote: |
| Mogulicious: I use Esnatri cream usually in the morning on my neck and jowl area. Sometimes I also use it in the evening right after rolling. I've been using about it for a year. My neck area is in reasonably goos shape for my age. |
Isn't this HRT vaginal cream?  What's the story with using it on your face. I've used haemorrhoide cream on my eye bags before but not vaginal cream - what am I missing out on? |
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Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:25 pm |
[quote="rileygirl"]Chinachatters, what skin care are/were you using along with the dermaroller and the light, and what sunscreen do you use? I think your skin looks irritated, but it also looks like you have areas of hyperpigmentation.[/quote]
The hyperpigmentation is probably trauma from over-using acids, light and dermaroller. I've never spent time in the sun and use Neutrogena SPF 45 or 55 and a hat when I go out. I also went whole hog three or four months ago on skincare products - all kinds - that apparently don't agree with me.
My objective was to get thick skin. Now it's to get my thin skin healthy again.
Bethany gave me a new routine to use while all that irritation heals. It will take about three weeks. |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:19 am |
| Well, good luck chinachatters. I am sure your skin will look fine after some time off to calm down! |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:44 am |
| Esnatri is a "bioidentical" hormone cream. I get it from the IAS WEB site they do not say anything there about it being a vaginal cream. Anyway anything used there needs to be very mild. I have never had any problems with it. It sinks in with a nice texture and I believe that it works. |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:48 am |
After first roll with 1.5 mm last Friday (which felt like a torture ), my yesterday's 0.5 mm felt like a breeze. So, I rolled vigorously 
Today my face looks plumped.
Or maybe it's just swollen  |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:52 am |
I had contacted Horst Libel (the Dermaroller inventor) about whether or not we should be concerned about using short needles on a weekly basis, due to the inflammation ramifications which can actually speed up aging.
His reply:
I heard back from Horst Liebl on my question about inflammation and rolling with short needles on a weekly basis:
| Quote: |
Dear Bethany,
It was never reported to us that the Home Care Dermaroller with its short needles of less than 0.2 mm would cause an ongoing inflammation when properly used on healthy skin. However as it applies with all new applicators, some people tent to overdo things. We feel that two (2) Dermaroller sessions per week are sufficient. Even without any additional skin care the fine needle stimulate the epidermis for a faster renewal that usually results in an increase of epidermal thickness (see our website). The outermost skin layer, the stratum corneum, closes so fast after pricking that it is more than unlikely that the skin gets inflamed or this layer is destroyed. Just keep in mind that shaving the skin, like many men do daily, takes parts of the stratum corneum away. This can be easily tested: Apply an After-Shave-Lotion immediately after shaving. You’ll experience a burning sensation. But if you wait for some 5 to 10 minutes and then apply the alcohol lotion, nothing will happen – the stratum corneum is already completely closed.
What concerns us more is the uncontrolled use of skin care product, mainly those that contain higher doses of Retinol and AHAs (Alpha hydroxy acids). These are ACIDS!!! and may have a certain effect ON the skin. But as a needling device is able to enhance these substances by 200 fold and possible more, these acids can, and most likely will affect the skin negatively with strong skin irritation and long prevailing redness, flaking and possibly ongoing inflammation. Therefore this paragraph must be understood as a strong WARNING! Under all circumstances a dermatologist should be asked for advice before using such products along with the Dermaroller!
Keep your Dermaroller and use it sensibly as you mentioned. But also keep in mind: Nothing lasts forever! Even the best steel is subject to wear and tear – or have you ever met a surgeon that uses his scalpel over and over again? Keep the Dermaroller clean, store it well and see it as used up after one year, based on 2 uses per week. If any copier claims hundreds of treatments with the same device I would considers this as a cheat.
Best wishes
Horst Liebl
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:12 pm |
Bethany, I am dense... When you roll with a shorter needle. You should or should not use retin a or AHA's to penetrate the skin?
I wish someone had a clear picture or could explain what the proper procedure is.
I haven't rolled even with the short needles in over a week. But when I did, I rolled one maybe two times a week with the .5. I put on my tazorac and vit. c before I rolled and after and called it a night. I did this once a week. If I had time I did it twice a week. I haven't had time to do anything extra except the light therapy on my face this week and last with my microderm machine. I put on either CP or vit c with emu oil on my neck and eyes.
I don't know what to do as far as rolling so, I haven't, and had no time to do it either.
Taking a break I guess from it all.
I do use tazorac at night, not every night.
So, my point the this is what should we be doing????? Anyone Pleazzz |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:36 pm |
I don't think there's any concrete rules for rolling but one thing's for sure - we should all be sensible about it and listen to our skin.
I noted Dr. Liebl's comments on possible irritation from the use of Retinol/AHAs and have to say that I have never experienced any problems from Retin-A (I use it every night). I don't even peel anymore and my skin no longer feels dry. However, when I was using AHAs I found them quite irritating.
As for rolling - I am having a break from the 1.5 but am using the .5 about twice a week. However, I have been treating the sides of my face (where I have lots of little lumps) more frequently.
So Sherry, to answer your question about the use of Retin-A: Dr. Fernandes definitely supports the use of Retin-A whilst rolling so if your skin remains un-irritated, I would continue. The most important thing is to monitor our own skin and watch how it responds.
And contrary to the advice on inflammation - I'm still using my LED and emu oil - that's just what feels right for me. |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:37 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| So Sherry, to answer your question about the use of Retin-A: Dr. Fernandes definitely supports the use of Retin-A whilst rolling so if your skin remains un-irritated, I would continue. The most important thing is to monitor our own skin and watch how it responds. |
Yep...you pretty much have to do what works for you.
Keliu, can you please point me to where Dr. F talks about Retin-A? I know he is an advocate of using retinols and oil-soluble Vit C (but not ascorbic acid), but I haven't seen his thoughts on retinoic acid/Retin-A anywhere. I would love to add that to the library of rolling articles. Thanks!! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:09 pm |
I was thinking of this info here - however, he refers to Vitamin A and not necessarily Retinoic Acid. I don't really understand the difference between the two - so have I got it wrong about the Retin-A?:
Preparing the skin
To achieve youthful skin, one needs the skin to be functionally as young as possible. Most patients coming for rejuvenation have photoaging and this needs to be addressed before attempting any PCI. Photoaging not only is due to the actual ultraviolet damage of dermal tissues but also is the result of a
chronic deficiency of vitamin A. [5] The first step toward skin health is to topically replace photosensitive vitamin A [6] and the other antioxidants vitamins C and E and carotenoids, which are normally lost on exposure to light. Vitamin A is utterly essential for the normal physiology of skin and yet it is destroyed by exposure to light so that it is prevented from exerting its important influence on skin and preserving collagen. Vitamin A is believed
to control between 350 to 1000 genes that control normal function, proliferation, and differentiation of cells. One cannot exaggerate the value of vitamin A in a rejuvenation program for skin, especially with PCI, because in this case, we are specifically trying to stimulate cells to induce collagen to their maximum. Vitamin A in physiologic doses will stimulate cell growth, the release of growth factors, angiogenesis [7], and the production of healthy new collagen. The DNA effects of vitamin A interact in parallel with the growth factors released by PCI. Adequate nourishment of the skin with vitamin A (not necessarily as retinoic acid but also as retinyl esters, retinal, or retinaldehyde) will ensure that the metabolic processes for collagen production will be maximized and
the skin will heal as rapidly as possible [8].
Also, I want to say that allot of the info that is on the web about CIT appears to be aimed at the medical profession and clinical rolling. I think if you ask doctors about advice for home rolling they are going to err on the side of caution (quite rightly so). In the same vein, I have never yet met a professional hairdresser who recommended dyeing hair at home. I wonder what the good doctors would say if they saw the DIY Fillers thread!! |
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Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:50 pm |
Keliu, I think they would freak out over both the DIY Fillers and the Dermarolling thread, lol.
Fernandes is definitely a fan of Vit A, and that is confirmed in his pre-roll protocol and his post-roll protocol...both of which emphasize heavy usage of Vit A and Vit C.
He uses retinols and oil-soluble Vit C after his medical rolls. However, that same article you quoted does NOT say you can't use Retin-A, (it does say that you can NOT use ascorbic acid), so I would assume that if he viewed Retin-A as bad, he would have called it out.
Works for me!! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:08 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| so I would assume that if he viewed Retin-A as bad, he would have called it out. |
Good point - and it's working for me too. After 12 months of rolling and using Retin-A my skin has never looked better. |
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Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:39 am |
| Does Fernandes say why not to use Ascorbic acid, Bethany, or anyone who knows? |
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