DermaRoller
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free skin care · Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:32 pm

Foxe, you inspired me - I just tried this today on my most prominent marionette line, using the smallest gauge diabetic lancet I could find. I followed the typical protocol except that I actually put Neosporin on the area afterwards (does anyone else do that? I'm pretty sure it contains no anti-inflammatories). I bled right away, a good bit more than I expected to and it was somewhat unnerving. As a result I probably didn't needle it as much as I might have otherwise. My only concern is that I may not have made enough wounds to create the "cascade" effect mentioned in the articles Bethany posted. But since I concentrated on just one small area, I'm hoping it won't matter.

CP's don't work for me at all, but I hope that my combination of 302 products, ELS Serum and emu oil will show some results similar to yours. I would LOVE to have this line completely flattened out! If this works well I'm going to spot treat a few other wrinkles on my face and save the 1.5mm roller for my body.

lowbrowscientist - too bad the CPs didn't work for you. I think it'd be OK to try other actives. Bethany gave some good advice about using Vit A & C.

rileygirl - I finally answered your PM. Both your questions and lowbrow's comments have made me want to do subscision again on those pesky upper lip lines. Having the one fill in was just awesome. Don't know if I can be patient enuf for the roller to do its thing on the others.

Anyone know where I can get some of those lancets? (I'd like to go w/ a finer needle)

free skin care · Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:52 pm

It looks like Skin Biology has added a little section on skin rolling and needling! However, it was written by Dr. Phillipa McCafferey from Australia.

http://www.scar-reduction.com/needling.html#pictures

free skin care · Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:07 pm

Bethany,

I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm sure you're sick of repeating yourself to those who chime in PAGES way after threads are started (guilty as charged). You said that you're not an advocate of dermarolling anymore for further penetration of products, why so? I probably missed that post. Also, I would like to use it all over, thighs, especially the back to break of any 'cottage' like appearance if there is any and also just to get a jump start on my regiment. I dont have any wrinkles or anything of the like. I have a few acne scars mostly hyperpigmentation and just want to even out my overall skin tone. So is the dermaroller safe to use on younger skin then? I know for overall use you recommended the 1.5mm which I probably will end up getting so that I don't have to keep upgrading the lengths.

Again sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself for the zillionth time. also thank you for the links that you've provided, will start there.

free skin care · Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:33 pm

ariesxtreme wrote:

Bethany,

I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm sure you're sick of repeating yourself to those who chime in PAGES way after threads are started (guilty as charged). You said that you're not an advocate of dermarolling anymore for further penetration of products, why so? I probably missed that post. Also, I would like to use it all over, thighs, especially the back to break of any 'cottage' like appearance if there is any and also just to get a jump start on my regiment. I dont have any wrinkles or anything of the like. I have a few acne scars mostly hyperpigmentation and just want to even out my overall skin tone. So is the dermaroller safe to use on younger skin then? I know for overall use you recommended the 1.5mm which I probably will end up getting so that I don't have to keep upgrading the lengths.

Again sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself for the zillionth time. also thank you for the links that you've provided, will start there.

Aries,

No problem...I know that reading through so many pages can be a bit overwhelming.

Regarding rolling for product penetration...

People seem to fall into 3 buckets of skin:
- Those that have very resilient skin, feel very little pain when rolling, don't bleed much, and have very little inflammation. (my personal observation is that these people smoke, have smoked in the past, or may have thickened skin from sun damage)
- Those that have very sensitive skin, feel lots of pain when rolling, bleed lots , and have limited sun damage/thinner skin. (that would be me)
- Those lucky people that fall somewhere in between.

Even the baby .15mm roller causes me to have a week+ of skin that starts out looking sunburned for a day and a half, and then switches to dry and crusty for the next week while it peels (and that is without using Retin A!). It just isn't the look I'm going for!

While I can put up with that for the occasional long needle roll, it really doesn't seem like the best choice for ME to do that 3x a week to enhance product penetration, when I can accomplish the same thing with an ultrasound tool and NOT have all the irritation.

Additionally, it is my belief that ongoing irritation and inflammation is not healthy for the skin...so I am now rolling with a 1.0mm roller every 4-6 weeks, and using my ultrasound for product penetration 3x a week (using that tool is not recommended every day either).

However, people that fall into the very resilient group might very well need (and want) the perceived benefits of rolling far more frequently for product penetration (hopefully with shorter needles). But even the inventor of the Dermaroller recommends rolling with the .13 Home Care Roller only 2-3x a week.

At the end of the day, only you can pick what is right for your skin....and sometimes that takes some trial and error. I personally found that the more I rolled, the worse my skin was getting (as in more sensitive)...that means that I probably wasn't taking a long enough break between the "trauma" so I cut back. But the one size fits all program really doesn't exist.

As far as needle length, the 1.5mm would be best for acne scars (as in indented) and legs. But if you are young, I really would not recommend rolling the rest of your face...especially with longer needles.

HTH...let me know if you have any more questions. Smile

free skin care · Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:28 pm

foxe wrote:

Anyone know where I can get some of those lancets? (I'd like to go w/ a finer needle)

I got mine in the pharmacy area at Walgreens, and the Walgreen's brand had the thinnest gauge AND was the least expensive. Any drugstore should have them, though.

I'm thinking about doing another, more thorough treatment this Tuesday, and then spreading them to every 4 weeks or so.

Foxe, I remember you saying that the line took about a month to fill in, but how often during that time did you do the needling? I'm wondering if I can get away with doing this more often than I could get away rolling my entire face, since the inflammation will be very localized.

free skin care · Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:07 pm

lowbrow - I only needled the area one time. this was before I had actually purchased a dermaroller (I was trying to decide to buy or not).

at this point, the wrinkle has flattened out and is still going thru a remodeling. it looks a little red. I can see more improvement in some areas of the wrinkle than others and can only think that has to do w/ how close I poked the needles next to each other or how deep they went.

if you have larger areas than a few specific wrinkles to attack - I would get the roller instead. it can inflict hundreds more holes in a few passes than a single needle can for the larger area and in less time.

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:53 am

Hi Bethany, a few thoughts on skin sensitivity to rolling. Prior to discovering the Dermaroller I was doing a 65% lactic acid peel once a week and also did several TCA peels. I wonder whether they have toughened up my skin. Have you used any peels in the past?

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:57 pm

Do any of the rollers come in smaller gauges than 0.25mm or whatever it is?

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:09 pm

Keliu wrote:

Hi Bethany, a few thoughts on skin sensitivity to rolling. Prior to discovering the Dermaroller I was doing a 65% lactic acid peel once a week and also did several TCA peels. I wonder whether they have toughened up my skin. Have you used any peels in the past?

Keliu, no I have never tried any peels...it could indeed be that.

However, the one thing I have consistently noted between myself and the people with high pain points (and less inflammation) is that they used to smoke (or still do). Smoking restricts the vascular flow to peripheral nerves, so it can cause a decrease in sensitivity over time.

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:11 pm

Coconut wrote:

Do any of the rollers come in smaller gauges than 0.25mm or whatever it is?

Coconut, the Leaf & Rusher TX Roller is .15mm, and the Dermaroller Home Care Roller is .13mm.

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:21 pm

bethany wrote:

Keliu, no I have never tried any peels...it could indeed be that.

However, the one thing I have consistently noted between myself and the people with high pain points (and less inflammation) is that they used to smoke (or still do). Smoking restricts the vascular flow to peripheral nerves, so it can cause a decrease in sensitivity over time.

I think you may be partially right about the smokers/ex-smokers, Bethany. But, I am actually thinking along the lines of Keliu here. I have used acids for years, and have had some strong glycolic acid peels done in the past, as well as I regularly using lactic acid peels weekly in the past. I think that may have contributed somewhat to the high pain threshold, at least for myself.

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:12 pm

rileygirl wrote:

bethany wrote:

Keliu, no I have never tried any peels...it could indeed be that.

However, the one thing I have consistently noted between myself and the people with high pain points (and less inflammation) is that they used to smoke (or still do). Smoking restricts the vascular flow to peripheral nerves, so it can cause a decrease in sensitivity over time.

I think you may be partially right about the smokers/ex-smokers, Bethany. But, I am actually thinking along the lines of Keliu here. I have used acids for years, and have had some strong glycolic acid peels done in the past, as well as I regularly using lactic acid peels weekly in the past. I think that may have contributed somewhat to the high pain threshold, at least for myself.

Do those cause pain when you do them, and you just get used to that level of pain...or do you think that the peels have done something to your nerve ends? Shock

free skin care · Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:08 am

bethany wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

bethany wrote:

Keliu, no I have never tried any peels...it could indeed be that.

However, the one thing I have consistently noted between myself and the people with high pain points (and less inflammation) is that they used to smoke (or still do). Smoking restricts the vascular flow to peripheral nerves, so it can cause a decrease in sensitivity over time.

I think you may be partially right about the smokers/ex-smokers, Bethany. But, I am actually thinking along the lines of Keliu here. I have used acids for years, and have had some strong glycolic acid peels done in the past, as well as I regularly using lactic acid peels weekly in the past. I think that may have contributed somewhat to the high pain threshold, at least for myself.

Do those cause pain when you do them, and you just get used to that level of pain...or do you think that the peels have done something to your nerve ends? Shock

I honestly don't think the peels did anything to my nerve endings, but I would have to research to see if that is a possibility. (another research project for you?? Very Happy

)

For me, yes, the higher strength peels are "painful" in the respect that they burn - meaning you feel like your face is on fire. The more I did them, the less it burned. I don't know if that would have thickened/toughened my skin, but a lot of products that the women on here think are "strong" feel like nothing on my skin.

free skin care · Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:40 am

I wonder if the nerves in our skin are similar to the nerves in our teeth? I remember when I broke my front tooth the nerve receeded...according to the discomfort level lessening and what the dentist confirmed...at least that is what I recall from many many years ago Smile

free skin care · Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:46 pm

Are there any restrictions with using the dermaroller post accutane? I'm considering going on a short round of accutane, but I'm not sure if the 6 month waiting period is applicable since technically, rolling doesn't damage the epidermis.

free skin care · Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:44 pm

Coconut wrote:

Are there any restrictions with using the dermaroller post accutane? I'm considering going on a short round of accutane, but I'm not sure if the 6 month waiting period is applicable since technically, rolling doesn't damage the epidermis.

I don't know anything about Accutane, so I am hoping that someone else can answer your question. But if in doubt, I would recommend the conservative approach and wait.

free skin care · Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:18 am

If you have sensitive skin - the dermaroller is NOT for you!

Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:17 pm

Ladies:

I am new to the forum and after spending the weekend reading this entire thread, I contacted Jack today and purchased a .5 and a 1.5 roller.

Now I'll just have to see if I'm actually woman enough to use them. Laughing

Kiley

free skin care · Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:22 pm

Kiley wrote:

Ladies:

I am new to the forum and after spending the weekend reading this entire thread, I contacted Jack today and purchased a .5 and a 1.5 roller.

Now I'll just have to see if I'm actually woman enough to use them. Laughing

Kiley

LOL...I'm sure you'll be fine! Very Happy

Kudos and thank you for investing the time in reading the entire thread...I know it is a TON of info. Please let us know if you have any questions

free skin care · Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:21 am

What would be the best cream to use with dermarolling? I would like to buy this cream at CVS or Walgreens or something. Anyone have any recommendations? Question

free skin care · Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:49 pm

Miss Tina wrote:

What would be the best cream to use with dermarolling? I would like to buy this cream at CVS or Walgreens or something. Anyone have any recommendations? Question

What are you rolling...face? body?

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:17 pm

Hello all
I'm hoping someone can help with some advice please.
Is this Roller with "The needles on this roller are so thin (.07 mm) and so short (.5 "half a mm")
effective?
Advise please
Also do you roll after you have cleansed & toned then roll then apply night cream or what is your routine with skin care

free skin care · Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:41 pm

Sheidinice wrote:

Hello all
I'm hoping someone can help with some advice please.
Is this Roller with "The needles on this roller are so thin (.07 mm) and so short (.5 "half a mm")
effective?
Advise please
Also do you roll after you have cleansed & toned then roll then apply night cream or what is your routine with skin care

That depends on whether or not you are rolling for product penetration, collagen regeneration, or scar removal.

You can find more info on needle length about half way down the first page in the thread below. Very close to the end of the page you will also see a post where I shared the results of a study on product penetration with rollers.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

free skin care · Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:08 pm

Roller Update

I tried my 3rd roll, but did not do all of my face. My cheeks are still recovering from my Tea Tree oil fiasco.

I used tridocaine B4 hand. did not rinse it off and this helped make it feel more numb. I rolled my forehead and upper lip area. I think I did a fairly good roll on the forehead, but when I got to the upper lips - OUCH!! I wonder if the tridocaine had worn off by the time I got done w/ my forehead. I could not use a whole lotta pressure on my upper lips. I did get some puncture marks here and there - more on the forehead. I also ended up using just subscision on a few of the wrinkles on my upper lips. (The roller hurt too much there to continue w/ it)

I applied my CPs b4 and after hoping for good product penetration. I cleansed my face thoroughly B4 and after. No breakouts this time (did not use the Tea Tree Oil this round). I also used Retin-A an hour b4 rolling.

My skin did have a sunburned look to it. Kinda funny looking since it was just the forehead and upper lips.

Hoping for some good results! Already have great results from CPs alone. Hopefully the roller will get them deeper into the skin to do their thing! It's only been 5 days, so too early for anything else to report.

free skin care · Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:25 pm

foxe wrote:

Roller Update

I tried my 3rd roll, but did not do all of my face. My cheeks are still recovering from my Tea Tree oil fiasco.

I used tridocaine B4 hand. did not rinse it off and this helped make it feel more numb. I rolled my forehead and upper lip area. I think I did a fairly good roll on the forehead, but when I got to the upper lips - OUCH!! I wonder if the tridocaine had worn off by the time I got done w/ my forehead. I could not use a whole lotta pressure on my upper lips. I did get some puncture marks here and there - more on the forehead. I also ended up using just subscision on a few of the wrinkles on my upper lips. (The roller hurt too much there to continue w/ it)

I applied my CPs b4 and after hoping for good product penetration. I cleansed my face thoroughly B4 and after. No breakouts this time (did not use the Tea Tree Oil this round). I also used Retin-A an hour b4 rolling.

My skin did have a sunburned look to it. Kinda funny looking since it was just the forehead and upper lips.

Hoping for some good results! Already have great results from CPs alone. Hopefully the roller will get them deeper into the skin to do their thing! It's only been 5 days, so too early for anything else to report.

The lips is certainly the ouchiest area for me too!! I use ice to numb them (just place an ice block directly on the area for a few sections then roll! The ice also makes the skin go taught, which helps rolling. If I ice enough, I cannot feel it at all.

ANother thing I have learned to do around my mouth which I saw on one of Bethany's videos is to place my fingers in my mouth under the lips when you roll. It is hard to do at first, but makes this area way less painful.

HTH

rebecca

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