DermaRoller
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free skin care · Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:47 am

psanyer wrote:

Hello everyone, I have been reading through this thread for about a week now. I just want to talk about my recent experience with the dermaroller. I ordered a 2.0 and a 1.0 off of ebay for $50 after shipping. They are both CIS Mesorollers with 8 rows of needles at .25 mm in width. I used the 2.0 on my belly for some stretch marks I have from my pregnancies, totally painless, but very red and irritated immediately after. I did use retin-a with this roll. On my face, I used the 1.0 with retin-a, OOUUCCCHHHH! I teared up, could hardly take it! Especially around my nose and in the temple area. I have no numbing cream because I am heavily tattooed and figured I could take it, I would compare the 1.0 on the face to getting a tattoo in a sensitive area like when I had one done over my hip (another attempt to disguise stretch marks which also works well!). I will update you on results, but just wanted to tell you how much it hurt. I even forgot I was using the 1.0 and not the 2.0, when I went to clean and put away I was surprised to see I had used the 1.0, I can't imagine how the 2.0 is going to feel!

I personally wouldn't use Retin-A when rolling. It's not gonna make much difference if you use Retin-A or a milder form of vitamin A, and using Retin-A while rolling has 2 major risks:

a. Causing extra-inflammation, which in the end contributes to skin aging and can cause postinflammatory hyperpigmentation

b. You risk systemic absorption of tretinoin which is not particularly safe.

I would go with Retinyl Palmitate, or Retinyl acetate... your skin will thank you.

free skin care · Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:19 am

Barefootgirl wrote:

Hi Tessera,

Thanks for your comments. I read about using a tea tree oil cleanser before rolling in one of the Fernandes articles. I assume because it is an antibacterial cleanser and we are trying to avoid infection as much as possible - so I start rolling with a disinfected roller and disinfected skin (theoretically, at least).

I only use this beforehand. The rest of the time I use oil based cleansers.

Do you "push" the roller into your skin?

Thanks, BF

Oh, if you just use the tea tree cleanser before, that should be fine. After cleansing (and before rolling) I wipe down with isopropyl alcohol to get that disinfecting effect.

I press firmly with the roller (as if I were using a paint roller and wanted good coverage). When I first started rolling, I would get a lot of spotty pinpricks showing, but now I only get a few of those and just turn red and sometimes peel. I'm guessing it may be because my skin is getting thicker.

free skin care · Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:06 pm

Josee wrote:

psanyer wrote:

Hello everyone, I have been reading through this thread for about a week now. I just want to talk about my recent experience with the dermaroller. I ordered a 2.0 and a 1.0 off of ebay for $50 after shipping. They are both CIS Mesorollers with 8 rows of needles at .25 mm in width. I used the 2.0 on my belly for some stretch marks I have from my pregnancies, totally painless, but very red and irritated immediately after. I did use retin-a with this roll. On my face, I used the 1.0 with retin-a, OOUUCCCHHHH! I teared up, could hardly take it! Especially around my nose and in the temple area. I have no numbing cream because I am heavily tattooed and figured I could take it, I would compare the 1.0 on the face to getting a tattoo in a sensitive area like when I had one done over my hip (another attempt to disguise stretch marks which also works well!). I will update you on results, but just wanted to tell you how much it hurt. I even forgot I was using the 1.0 and not the 2.0, when I went to clean and put away I was surprised to see I had used the 1.0, I can't imagine how the 2.0 is going to feel!

I personally wouldn't use Retin-A when rolling. It's not gonna make much difference if you use Retin-A or a milder form of vitamin A, and using Retin-A while rolling has 2 major risks:

a. Causing extra-inflammation, which in the end contributes to skin aging and can cause postinflammatory hyperpigmentation

b. You risk systemic absorption of tretinoin which is not particularly safe.

I would go with Retinyl Palmitate, or Retinyl acetate... your skin will thank you.

Yeah, I've really got to get out of the mindset that stronger is better. I've caused far too much damage to my skin because of this.

Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:37 pm

I have been using Retin-A for about 6 months, so my skin does not react to it like it did before. I dry rolled and then used the Retin-A. I have been reading how some of the others have been using vitamin C serums and copper peptides, so I orderd the CP serum from Skin Biology.

I am hoping to get some more suggestions, if I only use the Retin-a in between treatments rather, would it be better to roll with the CP serum, or with a peptide? Which would get me better results? This can be pretty confusing!

Also, I read that the copper peptide and C serum would cancel eachother out if used together, true?

Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:34 am

hi guys! ive been using my 1.5mm dermaroller. I rolled thrice already and I am wondering coz I didnt see any blood withdrawn. After i rolled, my face looks like sunburnt and after an 3 hrs, my face was no longer inflamed and it looked like im just blushing... is it good or bad? did my 1.5mm dermaroller had reached the dermis or not yet?

free skin care · Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:23 pm

What length dermaroller is typically used on the upper arms and thighs? I have been thinking that the skin in those parts of the body is thicker than facial skin?

BF

Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:33 pm

Hi BF,

I used 1.5mm in my face and I rolled using average pressure and sometimes harder. Ohhh so my facial skin is thicker? I've been using Retin A and my skin peeled atleast weekly... I really am wondering why.

free skin care · Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:19 am

Im really intrigued by the derma roller but I have some questions?

1) Im thinking of ordering the one from dr-roller.eu because it's the cheapest. Do you prefer 3 line or 8 line roller for the face?

2) Has anyone had success getting rid of their red acne marks with the 1.5 roller? I've only seen success stories of stretch marks.

3) Which size do you recommend for just daily maintanence/stimulate collagen?

4) Does the derma roller help with acne or clogged pores?

Thanks!

free skin care · Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:58 pm

anyone? Erm have many of you stopped using it? Do you think I can get the same effects over time from using a shorter needle like 0.25/0.5 as a longer one like 1.0? Im already getting the 1.5 just for my scars only but I need another for my face. I dont know which is better.
Is it possible to get a longer needle but roll in less deep?

free skin care · Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:50 am

faeriedust wrote:

Im really intrigued by the derma roller but I have some questions?

1) Im thinking of ordering the one from dr-roller.eu because it's the cheapest. Do you prefer 3 line or 8 line roller for the face?

2) Has anyone had success getting rid of their red acne marks with the 1.5 roller? I've only seen success stories of stretch marks.

3) Which size do you recommend for just daily maintanence/stimulate collagen?

4) Does the derma roller help with acne or clogged pores?

Thanks!

1) I think that you can use the larger roller for the larger areas of the face, and the smaller roller for around the eyes, nasolabial folds, etc. However, many members here feel there is a substantial difference in quality between the cheaper rollers and the more expensive ones.

2)You should look at the thread that contains the research articles regarding CIT/dermarolling. There have been plenty of documented cases of treating acne scars with the dermaroller. But, if all you have is hyperpigmentation/red marks from the acne and not real scarring you should consider yourself lucky because they will eventually fade with time, dermaroller or not.

3) I personally don't recommend rolling daily, or even weekly or monthly. Some members here do this, but I think the risk of micro-inflammation is too great, and in the long run could do more damage than good. I am more in favor of doing periodic aggressive rolls.

4) No. The dermaroller is intended for collagen induction. In fact, it is recommended that you not roll if you have active acne.

free skin care · Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:16 am

dr-rollers.eu is recommended right? I found it off the discounted rollers thread.
Unfortunately my acne marks arent fading. I've tried a lot of things but they wont go away completely. Also occasionally I get acne and they leave red marks behind. So it's like a neverending process.
How often is your periodic aggressive rolls?
What size should I get?

Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:30 am

well I don't know what the others will say but from what I gather if you are trying to treat acne scarring you should be using a roller with needles long enoughg to penetrate the dermis where most acne scars are tethered to. If you are talking about superficial discoloration or red spots then a shorter roller will probably do. I have a 1.0 and a 2.0, the 1.0 for superficial scarring used every 2 weeks and the 2.0 for the deeper, depressed acne scars used every 6-8 weeks. I know some other users on here might think this is too much, but I am hoping to treat my scarring aggressively. Also, I stopped using Retin-A with my rolls and instead use copper peptides which is supposed to be gentler yet yield good results. Don't know if that is true yet.

free skin care · Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:52 am

Hi
yup Im referring to the red marks. So 1mm will do? I guess I'll get 1mm and 0.25mm.

free skin care · Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:45 pm

faeriedust wrote:

anyone? Erm have many of you stopped using it? Do you think I can get the same effects over time from using a shorter needle like 0.25/0.5 as a longer one like 1.0? Im already getting the 1.5 just for my scars only but I need another for my face. I dont know which is better.
Is it possible to get a longer needle but roll in less deep?

The 1.5 is used for both collagen production AND scarring, so you don't need to buy another one for your face. You can just use that one. Depending on your acne scars (e.g. icepick scars) the 1.5 might not be enough and you might have to microneedle the scars yourself, or get a longer roller. The problem is that good-quality rollers of more than 1.5 mm are hard to come by.

Usually people buy the 8 line one and buy the 3 line one for "hard to reach spots" like around the eyes, etc.

The best way of rolling for collagen production and scarring is to roll agressively once every 5-6 weeks. Within a year you should be seeing results. Beware of something : some people report results a week after rolling. That is not because of collagen production, or scar remodelling but it's a product of inflammation. Infammation "masks" the scars and wrinkles. But after the inflammation is gone, the skin goes back to normal. Collagen remodelling and production takes weeks, so you need to be patient.

Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:46 pm

I have bought a 0.5mm dermaroller for my facial acne scars.

I intend to roll once every 2 days and alternate the use of Retin-a and Vit C serum.

Is it ok? or should i use retin-a and vit c serum together?

Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:53 pm

tessera wrote:

Hi Sunfood, I don't know to whom your question was directed, but I'll give you my answer. Both Vit. A and C are important for collagen production. It is recommended to take them orally as well as apply them topically as preparation for rolling. For my regular routine, I use Kassy A's DIY C, E, Ferulic serum in the a.m.(made with L-Ascorbic), and alternate retin-A and a milder form of Vit. A (I believe it's a retinol cream, but I don't want to go back to check and wake up the kids)at night. Immediately post-roll, and for 3 days thereafter, I mix together an oil soluble form of C (Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate)with either the retinol cream or avocado oil. This is in accordance with the medical protocol, which calls for using milder forms of A and C once the skin channels have been opened. It's also important to avoid taking or using any anti-inflammatories during the post-roll healing period; i.e. no aspirin, no LED use, etc. HTH Smile

so we shouldnt take vit e orally when we roll?

free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:20 am

99heyho wrote:

I have bought a 0.5mm dermaroller for my facial acne scars.

I intend to roll once every 2 days and alternate the use of Retin-a and Vit C serum.

Is it ok? or should i use retin-a and vit c serum together?

There is currently no doctor or rolling protocol that I know that recommends rolling your face every day, or every second day with a 0.5 mm roller. I think if you roll that often, you will generate too much constant inflammation which in the end will translate in skin aging, postinflammatory hyperpigmentation, etc, etc.

Also I think that a 0.5 mm roller will not be deep enough to treat your acne scars, which go deeper than that. If I were you, I would buy the 1.5 mm roller and roll once every 5-6 weeks.

Whatever you use the day your roll will not make a HUGE difference in things. It's mostly what you use every day that matters.

I think that using Retin-A after rolling is too irritating for the skin and not worth it. I would use some other retinol, and an oil form of Vitamin C and Vitamin E if you want.

HTH!

free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:30 am

faeriedust wrote:

dr-rollers.eu is recommended right? I found it off the discounted rollers thread.
Unfortunately my acne marks arent fading. I've tried a lot of things but they wont go away completely. Also occasionally I get acne and they leave red marks behind. So it's like a neverending process.
How often is your periodic aggressive rolls?
What size should I get?

Oh, yes you're right, that is the legitimate site for the good dermarollers.

I think you should try getting the acne under control before you start doing any rolling because it could just make it worse

free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:30 am

Josee wrote:

There is currently no doctor or rolling protocol that I know that recommends rolling your face every day, or every second day with a 0.5 mm roller. I think if you roll that often, you will generate too much constant inflammation which in the end will translate in skin aging, postinflammatory hyperpigmentation, etc, etc.

The sellers of the Dr. Rollers do actually recommend frequent rolling:

It is entirely up to you how frequently you use the Dr Roller device. For needle sizes up to 1 mm you can use the roller up to 5 times per week, for the 1.5 mm needle size, you should roll no more than three times per week and for professional use rollers you should be treated no more than once per month. Using the roller gently with light pressure should not result in any bleeding or major discomfort. The skin of your face is more sensitive than the skin on your body.
http://www.dr-roller.com/

However, I certainly think rolling every day would be overkill. I use my 0.5mm once a fortnight.

free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:35 am

I've decided to get 0.25 and 1.0 rollers. I didnt know red marks are not acne scars so I dont think I need 1.5 ones. 0.25 will be used all over my face, hopefully to thicken my skin. 1.0 will be used on my red marks only. I hope it works!

free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:37 am

Keliu wrote:

Josee wrote:

There is currently no doctor or rolling protocol that I know that recommends rolling your face every day, or every second day with a 0.5 mm roller. I think if you roll that often, you will generate too much constant inflammation which in the end will translate in skin aging, postinflammatory hyperpigmentation, etc, etc.

The sellers of the Dr. Rollers do actually recommend frequent rolling:

It is entirely up to you how frequently you use the Dr Roller device. For needle sizes up to 1 mm you can use the roller up to 5 times per week, for the 1.5 mm needle size, you should roll no more than three times per week and for professional use rollers you should be treated no more than once per month. Using the roller gently with light pressure should not result in any bleeding or major discomfort. The skin of your face is more sensitive than the skin on your body.
http://www.dr-roller.com/

However, I certainly think rolling every day would be overkill. I use my 0.5mm once a fortnight.

Yeah, but they are also trying to sell a product, they aren't doctors. Rolling 5 times per week?! That is certainly overkill in my humble opinion. There is mounting evidence in the skin care world that the constant microinflammation that some subject their skin to on a daily basis actually does more damage than good in the long run.

But really, in the end, it is up to each individual to judge their own skin and know what is best.

free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:00 am

Josee, by the way, have you been able to experiment with the matristem/acell?

Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:12 pm

Josee wrote:

marzipan wrote:

Hi Ladies!! To all you seasoned dermarollers ..I have a special request..HELP!!
Shock

I started using the dermaroller about 2 months ago and I did not research on how to use it..I know..pretty dumb! I bought the 1.5mm and was using it everyday Embarassed

I used it lightly for about 8 minutes everyday and never pierced the skin but experienced very slight pinkness in my skin and also plumping of my face..which was great. My problem is I started experiencing alot of hyperpigmentation from my cheeks down to my jawline Crying or Very sad

My face looks dirty without makeup. I did stop using it. I have been using retin about 7 months ago and also during the rolling time as well. I always wear sunblock and a hat! Any suggestions or advice would be so appreciated Very Happy

..

If you have postinflammatory hyperpigmentation, it should go away eventually..in 6 months to a year.

It'd be great if you could see a dermatologist but in the meantime:

a. Leave your skin alone. Do not do ANYTHING that can cause more inflammation. No exfoliating, no retin-A, no nothing for now. Try to find a very gentle cleansing cream and a very gentle moisturizer. In fact, if I were you I would either put jojoba oil as moisturizer or get NOTCH's "living lotion" cream.

b. After 4 weeks of being extra gentle with the skin I would discuss with my dermatologist the possibbility of usind hydroquinone + some kind of steroid to reduce the inflammation that hydroquinon will cause.

Then... just wait patiently. Trying to accelerate the process by using harsh creams, exfoliating agents, et .cand do more harm than good.

HTH!

I used a 1.0 on my belly stretchmarks (dry roll) about 2 weeks ago, and then a 2.0 on them a week later with copper peptides. After the second roll, I experienced a lot of burning and itching! I now have hyperpigmentation and lines wherever I rolled, and have started peeling very seriously! I have been using Emu oil twice a day and only used a copper peptide 3 times after rolling. Since it is my belly, there has been no sun exposure at all, so I am thinking the hyperpigmentation is a result of the top layers of skin needing to peel much like a TCA peel? Marzipan, did you peel with the hyperpigmentation? Anyone else experience this?

free skin care · Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:37 pm

Was this ever posted in the article thread? I don't recall seeing it

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=w1fQK21WK28C&oi=fnd&pg=RA1-PA195&dq=collagen+dermaroller&ots=qUONNfIvAD&sig=R-hGBeNa4tEdCumRrbGMNIFszWw

The photo in figure 26.6 is my ideal goal with the dermaroller! The protocol that is doctor uses is a bit different though, he uses techniques not available for home use.

Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:22 pm

Coconut wrote:

Was this ever posted in the article thread? I don't recall seeing it

The photo in figure 26.6 is my ideal goal with the dermaroller! The protocol that is doctor uses is a bit different though, he uses techniques not available for home use.

the link isn't working, it pulls up a page with different books on it

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