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DermaRoller
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bethany
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:59 am      Reply with quote
catski wrote:
bethany wrote:
catski wrote:
Thanks for that, Bethany and Rebecca. Maybe what I've been doing is losing my nerve, because of a setback... and I could gently begin to step back on the rolling path again..

I have some of the KH vitakombi 3. Maybe that would be a good thing to use after some rolling on this area.


Catski, I wouldn't use it for at least a couple of days after you roll.


Bethany, you think it might be de trop?
What do you think might be a good thing to use after rolling there, given the situation..hmm..dont want to soothe it, as that would negate the rolling, but need to tread gently..something very neutral, just to hydrate, maybe. I have some Olay definity serum which has niacin in as the active, but is also very nicely hydrating.Maybe that'd do the job.


Definitely de trop...it is some powerful stuff. Plus I read something recently about HP not being good for fibroplasts, and fibroplasts are generated during the wound healing process. (but I think the VK3 would be fine later)

I just use CPs and squalane right after rolling on my chest...the next day I use C and A.

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Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:03 pm      Reply with quote
skin care addict wrote:
Well, to save Bethany answering this post too.
She already said that you need to draw blood to get to the dermis.
And I (confess)still smoke, Sad so that has something to do with it. She is going to let me know her theory.


and Im fat too


LOL..I posted my theory on the other forum. Smile

I don't think weight is an issue at all. I'm fat and still produce lots of blood when I roll. Very Happy

But my theory of why some people see blood with longer needles and others don't was that non-bleeders may smoke (or have in the past). Smoking is proven to greatly constrict the size of blood vessels, and therefore limit the amount of available blood flow (and nutrients) to the skin. But this will vary greatly by person based on a large number of factors, like how long they have smoked, how much they smoke, etc.

I also wonder if sun damage and and/or smoking impact the level of nerves in the skin, explaining why some people feel more pain than others. But I haven't looked into that yet.

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:03 pm      Reply with quote
Thyckecutie wrote:
Ok so I did my first rolling after my shower. OUCH. I have the 1.5 and it didnt hurt that bad but it hurt a little bit. It was a ticklish/pain feeling so I tried to laugh my way through it. My obliques were more sensitve then my mid stomach but it took me about 3 mins to finish the whole thing. I tried to apply some pressure. Then I applied my Revitol. I think I will do my thighs tomorrow. Thats enough for tonight. How long should I soak my roller for? I have it in some Hydrogen Peroxide right now


Never more than 30 mins or it could break down the bonding.

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Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:11 am      Reply with quote
I've been lurking on EDS forums for years. I felt compelled to jump in with a word about my experience with topical anesthetics used for dermarolling. I did my sixth roll last night with a 1.5mm and am looking forward to a hiatus. I have used both tridocaine and Emla and I strongly prefer the Emla. It numbs my face to where I can not feel it at all--wierd and disconcerting, but allows me to get the job done. The tridocaine is a thick ointment, kind of like petroleum jelly consistency, that is difficult to remove. The Emla is a cream that wipes off more easily. My husband is also rolling (yes, I have created a skincare monster), and he is much more of a wimp with it than I am. The tridocaine did absolutely nothing for him, but the Emla does the trick. I got my Emla from Canadapharmacy. It took almost three weeks to arrive and came from UK--go figure!

Also, I want to thank everyone who has posted about dermarolling, giving me the info and courage to poke thousands of holes in my face. A special shout out to Bethany for the links to all the articles and connection to Jack for discounted dermarollers. THANKS!!! You're a gem. Very Happy

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Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:02 am      Reply with quote
ljk wrote:
I wish drroller-eu would stock the 3-line roller, I get stung by customs whenever I order it from the US. Confused


I'll write Kaia and ask today.

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Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:04 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
ljk wrote:
I wish drroller-eu would stock the 3-line roller, I get stung by customs whenever I order it from the US. Confused


I'll write Kaia and ask today.


Done - I'll know if/when I hear back from her.

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Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:51 pm      Reply with quote
I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but I stumbled across this really good 'how to' video instruction on Derma Rolling on U-Tube.

It goes into good detail for skin prep and numbing, and then shows the rolling.. Shock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwhjcTkwmc&feature=related


ETA: You guys are my heroes, I can barely get through tweezing my eyebrows!!!

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:38 pm      Reply with quote
mariah wrote:

Also-- why do you feel you need to bleed?
I have read that several people report bleeding-- but is it "necessary" for good results? Does it not increase the chance of infection? Embarassed


Anytime you poke holes in your skin you are inviting infection...use the Bactine before and after to be on the safe side.

Bleeding signifies that you have reached the deeper level of the skin (the dermis) where the blood vessels live. While the goal is not to bleed, the goal is to pentrate the dermis during rolling because the release of blood under the skin is part of how the wound healing cascade is triggered, which then stimulates the production of collagen and elastin.

This is all spelled out in the article below, which is available in the compilation of dermarolling articles that I pulled together for everyone.

Minimally Invasive Percutaneous Collagen Induction Desmond Fernandes, MB, BCh, FRCS(Edin)
This article provides a great overview of how collagen is developed with the micro needling process, as well as the rolling protcol, etc. (pics included)
http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

CIT/Dermarolling Articles and Presentations
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:59 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
Neenersan wrote:
Hello To All.
My sister told me about the Dr. Roller and this forum and told me to read everything before I ordered anything. I just spent the last hour reading from the beginning....then my eyes started to cross so I skipped to the end. A lot of very good information...maybe too much!

Anyway, I am impatient to start this rolling and youthening procedure and need to know where I can get the Dr. Roller. My sister says there's a guy who gives a discount if you're an EDS member but she doesn't remember who he is. Do any of you?

Also, is there a general consensus of opinion on which creams or oils to use either during or after the rolling? I will be using the Dr. Roller for wrinkles, pores and a couple of small scars...does it make a difference? Is there a specific product for each type of problem or are they sort of the "one size fits all" creams?

One weird question: Has anyone used it on their lips to give them that 'bee stung' look? Or do I expect too much of a miracle?

Thank you all for the wonderful information I've already read. I'm going to keep reading until I catch up with page 89.

Neenersan


The seller of the rollers that we all use is Jack from Onestopshop. Check out this thread for his number:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392

As far as actives to use with the roller, a lot of ppl use some sort of vit A and vit C. I use CPs with mine and had awesome results w/ CPs before I started using the roller. I want the roller to get the CPs in deeper. I also use Retin A for my vit A. The CPs would be perfect for the scars.

bethany is our local expert and will hopefully chime in here w/ some more info for you.


If you want to remodel skin effectively, you need high levels of both Vit C and Vit A...preferably before you even begin rolling!

I personally follow my rolls with Retin A (except on my chest which is too sensitive), and then apply 302 A Boost and C Boost mixed together a couple of times a day for the next 3 days or so after rolling.

CP's can be effective for scar remodeling, as they can help remove damaged proteins...just be sure to apply them at least 12 hours away from any product containing Vit C.

Please be sure to read some of the key articles within the CIT/Dermarolling Articles thread...the better you understand the way dermarolling works, the more likely you are to have better results. Unfortunately, impatience will not work in your favor when turning yourself into The Human Pin Cushion. Sad

CIT/Dermarolling Articles
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

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Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:37 am      Reply with quote
arya2 wrote:
But something did pop into my mind in the middle of the night, when all my best ideas surface. Considering that you admit it is a torturous process for you & no wonder, have you considered also investing some $ into self hypnosis? I'm serious. This suggestion is based on the experience of a friend of my ex's mother. This lady was one of those wealthy but very bored & neglected wives we read about who took to the bottle. After several unsuccessful & varied attempts to address her addiction, she finally found relief in self hypnosis.

It seems tho' that pain reduction is an even more appropriate problem for this type of therapy & might be worth investigating. After all, you are a Master Investigator. And if the benefits are minimal or no pain, saving time in searching for an effective numbing cream not to mention the $ buying it and vino while still achieving the rolling results you want, it seems a no brainer.

I have close to me a Wellness Centre featuring homeopathic treatments, reiki etc, along with hypnotherapy. Am sure such centres abound in Florida.

What do you think?


I actually have a number of self hypnosis tapes, but nothing that deals with pain....that is a very interesting idea!

However, due to the The New Job From Hell, I seriously doubt that I could effectively be hypnotized. But I may still look into that....I am all for reducing the dependence on the wine and the numbing drugs!!

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Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:15 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Bethany,

I remember you posting pics of your undereye area after a roll - you wouldn't happen to know what page that was on, would you?

Bottom line, the photos are *really* helpful (and appreciated)! Smile


No problem...I'm glad to know that I am not the only one that officially matches the pictures of the medical roll victims!

Here is the pic of under my eye...this is a couple of days after a roll with a 3Line.

While I get the bruises under my eyes the next day, I have never had any purple welts appear while rolling. Shock That would have scared me too!

Image

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Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:24 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Here is the pic of under my eye...this is a couple of days after a roll with a 3Line.

While I get the bruises under my eyes the next day, I have never had any purple welts appear while rolling. Shock That would have scared me too!

Image


Thanks for re-posting that, I needed the reassurance Laughing

I just took a few pics right now; I have to laugh at how well the track lines are showing up (hope these aren't too big):

(left eye)
Image

(left eye)
Image

(right eye)
Image


I think overall, the damage looks about normal, but I'm glad I held back. There's a part of me that still wanted to just go for broke, welts and all. This is becoming a strange addiction Silenced
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:47 pm      Reply with quote
gumgirl wrote:
I've used Emla twice with my 1.5 dermaroller. However, I obviously did not read the directions on the package since I never placed an occlusive dressing (aka plastic wrap) after applying the EMLA.

Is everyone using plastic wrap? I have the opportunity to do an aggressive Bethan type roll since I have 6 days away from work. Very Happy


I actually did use some wrap,but I had cut it into sections that fit diff areas of my face (one for a cheek, one for over the lips, one for the forehead, etc.)

I did notice that it worked better on the spots that were covered by the wrap the best.

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Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:24 am      Reply with quote
RussianSunshine wrote:
Question for Canadian girls:
where do u buy ur DermaRoller Question


I get mine from Jack. First time I ordered it took about 10 days to get here and 2nd time took about a week.

Jack at One-Stop
Call: 1-866-583-7883
Hours: 10am to 4pm ET
Email: backstrecords2@yahoo.com

You can find further information re. pricing here

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392&highlight=dermaroller
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Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:16 pm      Reply with quote
SeanySeanUK wrote:
Is there anyone with diabetes or immune challenges that has dermarolled?

I am a diabetic and was speaking with a friend who is also in her late 30's and wants to give this a try, but from memory, I am not sure whether its the most sensible thing for her as diabetics etc have a weakened immune system (and as a result their cuts often take longer to heal) so am guessing that dermarolling might not be the best thing for her, but figured its worth checking in with you ladies to see if anyone has these health challenges and has been dermarolling?


Sean,

I have read in a number of places that rolling is not recommended if you are diabetic. Nova Clinc, which Toby mentioned above says this on their website:

Quote:
You cannot use the derma/skin roller if:
You have a history of poor wound healing, blood problems, collagen diseases, have open cuts, wounds, sun-burnt skin, active herpes outbreaks, pustule acne lesions, or any other acute infection or inflammation of the skin, are pregnant or lactating, are prone to keloid scarring or have diabetes. If you are in any doubt about the condition of your skin do not hesitate to consult your MD. Always keep the Derma Roller stored out of the reach of children.

http://www.dermarollers.com/besafe.html


However, if you want to do some additional checking with some of the experts who do this regularly, here is some contact info (I pulled it from an old post). They may have some insight as to what length needles may be best tolerated, etc.

Of the ones below, I would suggest contacting Dr. Liebl on his blog...he has answered my questions in the past within a couple of days. But be forewarned that he does not think that anyone should be doing their own rolling, and will tell you to see a professional. So I guess the question to him should be whether or not you are a candidate to be dermarolled. Wink

bethany wrote:
I would suggest that you contact Dr. Des Fernandes or Dr. Horst Liebl (the inventors), or perhaps Dr. Andres Bustillo in Miami who is supposed to be publishing a study on his usage of the Environ roller within his practice.

Dr. Liebl can be most easily reached via his blog:
http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/

Dr. Bustillo's contact info is at his website:
http://www.drbustillo.com/

Dr. Des Fernandes' contact info can also be found at his personal website:
http://www.drdes.co.za/

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Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:32 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Rollergals!

So, I managed to figure out how to take pictures of my poor face... And, I've got them hosted...

However, don't know how to get them to show up in the thread - so here are the links...

First one is from Wednesday night:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4263/img0544ns7.jpg

Second one is from this afternoon (Friday):
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1987/img0596rp8.jpg

As you can see, the one near the corner of my mouth has resolved quite a bit - but the ones on my cheek(s) are going to take a bit of time until they fade. (Unlike Mangosteen, I don't think I'm going to be so lucky that they'll be completely faded in three days...Sad )

Anyway - any input (other than to stop dermarolling - LOL) would be appreciated! TIA!
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Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:25 pm      Reply with quote
Got it figured out now. I'm hoping this roll will be aggressive enough.


Image


Today all my rolled bits have got red dots all over them. I look like I've got meazles or something.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:26 pm      Reply with quote
Here are a few pics - The track lines are more defined around the eyes this time, less actual bruising (so far).

This was taken a few minutes post-roll:

Image

These are both from today:

Image

Image

I'm somewhat disappointed... my results are similar to the last time, but I feel that I wasn't able to roll intensely enough and I don't know that this roll will do much good. I thought I was pretty thorough with the marionette lines but they don't look that bad today. I'm not sure if that means I didn't hit them hard enough, or if they just generally aren't going to look as bad as other areas.

I'm definitely sticking with the Emla next time, to start with, but I'm going to give the Super Juice 3 another shot to help keep things numb *during* the roll.
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Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:05 am      Reply with quote
Perfectionist wrote:
Thanks, I personally found the MTS very professional looking, but not worth 700$.

Bethany, I've read a lot in this thread, but I have yet to see any before \ after pictures.
Have anyone posted before/afters here?

I'm mainly wanting to use it on my scars and small wrinkles and would loe to see some real results from independant non affiliated people.


Keep in mind that most independent, non-affiliated people do not want their pics posted on the internet for everyone to critique, lol. But if you want to post your before pic, I'll be glad to give you an opinion on if this could help you.

Boski posted some before and after pics after using 302 Skincare and dermarolling to get rid of her acne scars...see page one of the thread below.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855

I posted an after pic, as well as VISIA results which I think are actually better than pics which depend highly on lighting, etc. And I can assure you that I am not affiliated with anyone but myself, lol.

I mentioned below what Dermarolling did for for me...what it did NOT do was tighten and eliminate my marionette lines (which Ageless If You Dare has almost eliminated since this pic was taken). And it did not do a ton for my facial pigmentation, nor did it do much my for my forehead lines (one representing of my 3 major employers Rolling Eyes ).


bethany wrote:
Here are my results, as previously posted on the Dermaroller thread. My current protocol is rolling every 3 months.

bethany wrote:


Rolling History:
I did a series of 6 rolls (1 per week) starting in mid-May with a 1.0mm Dr. Roller and 1.0mm 3Line Dr. Roller and then took a 90 day break. I now only roll once every 4-6 weeks, and will not be taking future breaks.

Topicals:
The only topicals I use when rolling are RA (face and arms only), and 302 A Boost and Lightening Drops on all areas for the next 3 days in order to replicate Dr. Fernandes' professional protocol (though he actually uses the Environ EssentiA Oil). I have used CPs, but don't think they are essential at all.

I was also using 302 topicals on a daily basis, along with RA 1x a week....including when I was on my 90 day rolling break.

Dermarolling Results:
After a total of 4 months, I saw:
- 90% of my crowsfeet eliminated
- 75% of my glabellas (11's) eliminated
- 30% of my forehead lines eliminated and the rest softened
- 97% of my milia eliminated
- 80% of a neck/collarbone line eliminated
- 80% of the pigmentation eliminated from my hands

I had a VISIA Complexion Analysis done on 9/18 that showed the following, and I will be using this as a baseline for future improvement.
- Fine lines and wrinkles - 99%
- Hyperpigmentation (age/dark spots) - 73%
- Enlarged pores - 97%
- Texture (skin smoothness) - 85%
- Sun damage (UV spots) - 105 counted in the designated area


I have been very fortunate to see results of this magnitude so quickly, especially since I roll way less than most people. And I am definitely expecting/hoping to see more improvement over the next 12 months.

However, though many people do not see these results unless they roll more frequently, and for a longer time period. However, 6 to 7 months seems to be the point where most people start seeing results.


Image

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Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:54 pm      Reply with quote
isa09 wrote:
thanks for sharing your experiences everyone.
i stumbled across this thread and find it both fascinating and frightening. I cant imagine rolling pins on my face...
for those of you that are using this technique, did you have it done professionally first, or, did you just dive in and do it yourself?


hi isa09

For me, this has been several years in the making (done lota reading/pondering on needling/tatoo needling). As far as jumping in - i did only in the sense that i had to push past my fears and JUST DO IT, but alot led up to that. What ultimately led me to do this was the girls on the Flex Effect forum. A few whose judgement i respected were doing it and were speaking higly of it. At first i thought they'd lost their minds - and that it was actually massochistic - then i hopped over here and these boards speak for themselves. I did not have it done professionally, but i read tons - alot of pages on this board and all of the articles that Bethany posted (and i still managed to mix some info). I was especially concerned about the potential for infection and also the potentially unbearable pain.
when i finally "took the plunge", I didn't use a numbing agent because i was uncomfortable with the disassociation - i was lucky to not need one (so far - we'll see w/ the cross hatch). As far as the topicals, i was already using them and had been for some time. This has turned out to be one of best things i've ever done for myself (but i won't go on about that)i recommend it, but YOU MUST arm yourself with information first.
m
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Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:18 am      Reply with quote
Miss Tina wrote:
BTW, I want a dermastamp. I think that this would be the answer to my chicken pox scars and acne scars that have hypopigmintation!

Beth, do you know where I can get a professional dermastamp or can I make one at home with some sewing needles?

They do give the diameters of the stamp on their website.

Also, how do you suggest I methodically stamp my skin?


We have not yet seen any pics of the DermaStamp, and at this point they are only available to doctors. He was offering to send them to a person's doctor for free, as long as he received before and after pictures in return.

Here is the DermaStamp thread I started some time ago...I did post a link to some permanent makeup needles (multiple needles per unit) that look like a possible option. Please post any comments on that thread.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=30611

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:26 pm      Reply with quote
averygsmom wrote:
This has probably already been addressed on this huge-o thread and if so, just somebody direct me to the right page, anyway...
Most on this forum suggest waiting approx 30-60 min after rolling to apply your CP serum, however, an article on the SkinBio website by Dr. McCaffrey suggests rolling with CPs and many on the Skin Bio forum apply immediately after rolling. Any opinions or suggestions? I am planning my first rolling session Sunday afternoon and need some advice...


This being your first session - i would wait the 30 min. or you could try a small area rather than the whole face just to see how your face reacts. I tried this w/ R/A and i was amazed at how much peeling and rawish skin i got for a week-next time i'll wait. I use let's make collagen immediately post roll then i waited an hour and put on CP's (super2x) - i only used the r/a in a small area...
m
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Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:12 pm      Reply with quote
Bira wrote:
photoqueen wrote:
I have been using my dermaroller for about 4 weeks now, the stretch mark I was working on, which was a fairly small one on my arm, has gone, almost completely, I am amazed, it only cost me £55.00 and it actually works.

Now back to working on a stubborn wrinkle with it.

PQ.


Can you tell me what size your roller is that you were using on the stretchmarks? Was it used daily? Did you just roll and not use any product after? How long did you roll each session?


1.5 c.m
5 days a week - 2 days rest

No product - told by company no product needed if you eat a balanced diet

4 horizontal, 4 vertical, 4 cross rolls right down, left down - using an even pressure causing redness that passed in 5 minutes.

PQ.

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Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:36 pm      Reply with quote
Bira wrote:
This is going to sound strange but I have a small saggy skin on one side of boobs because that was the one most breastfed. Skin also has stretchmarks and seems not much elasticity. Wonder if dermaroller can help with this. I thought it would sound strange since it seems weird to put needles on boobs.


I've rolled my boobs and the skin is firming up as well as the stretchmarks are diminishing. Interestingly, the boobs are the LEAST painful area I've rolled to date.

BTW, I'd recommend checking on Amazon to see the going rate for the Dr. Rollers of whatever size you have.

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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:07 am      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:

Some posts advise against anti-inflammatories after rolling since inflammation is part of the triggering of the mechanisms involved in collagen rebuilding.

Others advise against too much inflammation since it is counterproductive, I assume because inflammation can trigger free radicals and the oxidative process.


Regarding the points above, both of those things are true.

I wish I could remember where I read this... and I will start looking, actually, because I'd really like to post a reference for this... but, I think that the MAIN healing period where you really need to leave things is during the first 3 to 4 days. That is when your body is initially responding to the wounds you've created, signalling the body to produce more collagen in the skin, and the redness/inflammation is part of that. Reducing inflammation at that point defeats the whole purpose. Let the wound healing cascade do its magic for 3 to 4 days. After that, you can do LED treatments, use emu oil and whatever other anti-inflammatory treatments.

The key to success is controlled inflammation.


Low, here you go...the link goes into far more detail about the necessity of the inflammation phase as part of the wound healing cascade.

Quote:
There are three phases in wound healing:

Phase I: inflammation, which starts immediately after the injury

Phase II: proliferation (tissue formation), which starts after about 5 days and lasts about 8 weeks

Phase III: tissue remodeling, from 8 weeks to about 1 year

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

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