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guapagirl
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:45 pm      Reply with quote
OK, so what are the 'solutions'? And on the website it suggests that there is maximum penetration of product after rolling. Does this mean that rolling will allow greater absorption of products over an extended period of time?

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bethany
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:15 pm      Reply with quote
guapagirl wrote:
OK, so what are the 'solutions'? And on the website it suggests that there is maximum penetration of product after rolling. Does this mean that rolling will allow greater absorption of products over an extended period of time?


In the above protocols, the solutions are "two topical esthetics (e.g., peptide, retinol, collagen)."

And yes, once the microchannels are created, your actives pentrate better. You can also put them on before, and then roll the serums into the skin...except that is not recommended for CPs.

Quote:
Clinical studies from Europe, U.S. and South Korea have proven that serum absorption is increased by as much as 1,000 times when applied with MTS Roller

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rileygirl
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:39 pm      Reply with quote
If you look up MTS roller on google, you can get to their home page and see the "solutions". They sell these to licensed professionals only. I did not find any ingredient list for these as of yet.
ace243
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:35 pm      Reply with quote
i thought the mts looked like the best roller, or maybe its just cause its pretty lol. i found the mts roller cheap on amazon its $160 it doesn't say the mm but i wrote them an email & asked how much was the 2mm & they said $160 also. but they also asked if i was a doctor, i wonder if i just said yes would the order have went through, because i ordered a 2mm from dr roller & it went through without questions.

Bethany-thanks again, the one you re posted about the girls sister wearing a bikini the first time in 20yrs gives me hope.

when i save more $ im going to get glycolic acid & copper peptides too.i cant wait to start rolling, i hope this is the last summer i have with stretchmarks. lol i think id try snail poop is someone said it worked lol
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:42 pm      Reply with quote
ace243 wrote:
when i save more $ im going to get glycolic acid & copper peptides too.i cant wait to start rolling, i hope this is the last summer i have with stretchmarks. lol i think id try snail poop is someone said it worked lol


Let's hope that you don't have to resort to snail poop anytime soon! Embarassed

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bethany
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:08 pm      Reply with quote
Has anyone else's skin turned into a SPONGE since they rolled?

I am constantly putting on emu oil or squalane, and 10 minutes later it has been sucked up into my skin. At this point, I am wishing I had some emu oil balm of some sort to slather on myself! (hmmm...I may need to see if they even make that...)

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Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:09 am      Reply with quote
Has anyone bought or found out more about the "Beauty Mouse". I would like to buy one as I am rolling my arms and it takes forever with the little rollers.

I am still seeing evolving results. I have a scar from the oven on my left arm. About half of it is gone now. Part is resistant but it looks a bit lighter. I think you just have to be patient. It seems that some areas are responding much faster than others.
sherryf13500
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:42 am      Reply with quote
What is beauty mouse? Bethany, my face where I rolled last week aggressively on my jowl area are all scaly and soak up whatever I put on it. I don't use emu oil because there are anti-inflammatory agents in it. I use some other moisutizer. I can't put trazorac on it cause it is too sensitive. I am putting my rose hip seed oil on it and a moisturizer. It has been 6 days. I can't wait for it to stop pealing and get back to normal.
bethany
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:16 pm      Reply with quote
sharky wrote:
Has anyone bought or found out more about the "Beauty Mouse". I would like to buy one as I am rolling my arms and it takes forever with the little rollers.




The Beauty Mouse is indeed .15mm needles, is comprised of essentially 3 rollers, and it sells for $220.

You can order it through dermarollerusa@aim.com or 913-832-8884.

Here is the link to info and a pic:

http://www.dermaroller.de/us/beauty-mouse-/beauty-mouse-9.html

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bethany
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:18 pm      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
What is beauty mouse? Bethany, my face where I rolled last week aggressively on my jowl area are all scaly and soak up whatever I put on it. I don't use emu oil because there are anti-inflammatory agents in it. I use some other moisutizer. I can't put trazorac on it cause it is too sensitive. I am putting my rose hip seed oil on it and a moisturizer. It has been 6 days. I can't wait for it to stop pealing and get back to normal.


Sherry, I just posted a link right about this reply. The needles are VERY small, so I don't know how many people will be interested.

And I should probably quit using the emu oil!!

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bethany
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:37 pm      Reply with quote
Just an FYI...here is the communication stream regarding the Beauty Mouse, just in case you happen to plan on calling or emailing them...

Beth:
Quote:
Is the Beauty Mouse available yet?

If so, can you please tell me how much it is, and where I can purchase one?


Dermaroller:
Quote:
You have reached the right contact for purchasing the Beauty Mouse by Dermaroller®. Our company is the authorized North American company for the authentic Dermaroller®, owner of the European patent, US patent pending and registered US trademark.

Please help us with where you heard about the Beauty Mouse. Physician? Friend? Internet? If yes, which message board? Also, what skin condition will you be treating?

You may call 913-832-8884 and we will return your call at our expense and help process your order. Again, thank you for your e-mail.


Beth:
Quote:
I read about the product on the Dermaroller website....but we are talking about it on the Essential Day Spa internet forum. Most women would want to treat cellulite, but feel that the needles are too short.

Can you please tell me the price?


Dermaroller:
Quote:
Thank you for your reply. The Beauty Mouse and the Dermaroller facial roller are the same size needles and are designed for a dual purpose:

(1) Transdermal delivery of skin care products by 4000% (SEE Photo below) (not included here on EDS)

(2) Making microscopic injuries that signal the body for repair with collagen and elastin

Our research has shown that the body does not distinguish between a minor injury and a major injury as BOTH signal the body for repair.

Some of the acne scar and EDS members tout "self-performed" procedures with long needles. The needles are instruments only sold and purchased by physicians. If it is on amazon or ebay they are copied rollers from China. A waste of money as it's impossible to do a procedure correctly on yourself any more than performing a surgical procedure on yourself.

A physician provides:

1. Evaluation for healthy skin including questionable melanoma.
2. Antiseptic technique which includes a surgical scrub.
3. Application of a DEEP anesthesia. A full facial will encompass 300,000 needle sticks, e.g., 300 needle sticks per SQ cm. Physicians use injectable anesthetic to NUMB also called a nerve block. Most self-performed procedures fail as it is impossible to push that many needles into an area that is NOT numb-- unless you're a masochist.
4. Physicians precribe anti-viral prescriptions for prevention of herpes as you can be a carrier and not realize it.
5. Follow-up care

PHOTO's: (bloody photos not included here on EDS)


Beth:
Quote:
Thanks for the insight....I am in complete agreement that the treatments cannot be compared.

Could you please tell me the price for the Beauty Mouse?


Dermaroller:
Quote:
The Beauty mouse provides 3 rollers - given the Dermaroller retails for $110 the Beauty Mouse is a good value at $220.00.

Again, please call if you need help processing your order or for more direct FAQ.



I don't think I'll be emailing there again anytime soon....you ladies are on your own! Very Happy

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guapagirl
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:20 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
guapagirl wrote:
OK, so what are the 'solutions'? And on the website it suggests that there is maximum penetration of product after rolling. Does this mean that rolling will allow greater absorption of products over an extended period of time?


In the above protocols, the solutions are "two topical esthetics (e.g., peptide, retinol, collagen)."

And yes, once the microchannels are created, your actives pentrate better. You can also put them on before, and then roll the serums into the skin...except that is not recommended for CPs.

Quote:
Clinical studies from Europe, U.S. and South Korea have proven that serum absorption is increased by as much as 1,000 times when applied with MTS Roller


Thanks for that... I wonder why they don't recommend CPs Confused you would think the benefits you get from applying CPs to post peel skin and wounds it would be a good thing!

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Keliu
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:06 pm      Reply with quote
It is my understanding that CPs are recommended - but Dr. Pickhart recommends that you don't apply them to an OPEN wound. So just wait an hour after rolling to apply.
sherryf13500
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:15 am      Reply with quote
Tell me why CP would be good. With all this informatin spinning around about what products to use when. I get so confused. I have only been using Trazorac and vit. c. lately with a moisturizer in the am. I don't use cp.

I have read when you roll you shouldn't use the led light, no emu oil, basically let your skin alone for a while after you roll. Especially after a hard roll. I wish I knew what was correct.
sherryf13500
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:05 am      Reply with quote
I just recieved the .5 roller. what is best to roll into my skin?
lunarmm
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:11 am      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
I have read when you roll you shouldn't use the led light, no emu oil, basically let your skin alone for a while after you roll. Especially after a hard roll. I wish I knew what was correct.


If you are rolling with a .75mm or longer dermaroller, you are rolling to "injure" the skin and bump up collagen production. Thus, you don't put any thing immediately on after rolling for this purpose. You don't want to soothe the skin immediately. You want the signal to the body to HEAL the area.

If you are rolling with a .5mm or shorter dermaroller, you are using it to help topicals absorb. You choose what products you are using based on your skin care needs. Just remember, that because the product goes deeper into the skin, your skin will probably react differently. For instance, you may peel from retin-A even if you've used it before with no peeling.

General note: people, please if you are going to invest in a product like the dermaroller, please take the time to read the threads that already are available. Invest with time as well as money in your skin care! Investing in doing the research ahead of purchases can save you a lot of money in the long run as well as unexpected results/side effects. Just because a product works for some people doesn't mean it's right for you. For instance, if you have sensitive skin, the dermaroller probably isn't for you - especially the .75mm and up for collagen induction!!!!

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sherryf13500
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:11 am      Reply with quote
I have to say that the .5 roller, the needles are really short. Are there more needles on the .5? Haven't used this yet. Maybe tonight.
ace243
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:11 am      Reply with quote
so when i get my 2mm roller i shouldn't use emu oil or trilastin after rolling? and has anyone used the 2mm on their face? i have a scar on my cheek & the worry lines on my forehead (worry lines-caused by bf's lol) i could only afford one roller.
Kay2008
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:58 pm      Reply with quote
Just read the last couple of posts.
So now I may sound dumb.

I have invested in a 1.5mm derma roller (waiting for it to arrive in the post). I bought the 1.5mm for stretch marks, as I want it to penetrate as near as possible to the dermis area. I thought this would be for helping tretinoin, cocoa butter or whatever cream to absorb in the dermis area better.

Are the larger needles just for making collagen production? or to help creams/lotions to absorb further down?
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:29 pm      Reply with quote
Kay2008 wrote:
Just read the last couple of posts.
So now I may sound dumb.

I have invested in a 1.5mm derma roller (waiting for it to arrive in the post). I bought the 1.5mm for stretch marks, as I want it to penetrate as near as possible to the dermis area. I thought this would be for helping tretinoin, cocoa butter or whatever cream to absorb in the dermis area better.

Are the larger needles just for making collagen production? or to help creams/lotions to absorb further down?


I would say both. As the short needles will promote product penetration, I could not see why the long needles should not.

I am planning my next rolling on some scars on my legs on Friday. I still have flaking and soreness from rolling last Friday. Hopefully some of the experienced rollergirls can advise me whether to go ahead now or wait until the area is healed.

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bethany
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:05 pm      Reply with quote
ace243 wrote:
so when i get my 2mm roller i shouldn't use emu oil or trilastin after rolling? and has anyone used the 2mm on their face? i have a scar on my cheek & the worry lines on my forehead (worry lines-caused by bf's lol) i could only afford one roller.


Ace, you can apply the Trilastin after you roll. But emu oil is an anti-inflammatory, so you should probably wait a few days before using that.

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Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:31 pm      Reply with quote
Septembergirl wrote:
I am planning my next rolling on some scars on my legs on Friday. I still have flaking and soreness from rolling last Friday. Hopefully some of the experienced rollergirls can advise me whether to go ahead now or wait until the area is healed.


I would wait. The long rollers are not meant to be used that often and it's been less than a week since you rolled last. The point of the process is to allow the area to heal as the positive results of dermarolling using the .75mm and longer rollers comes from the the body's natural healing process.

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bethany
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:21 pm      Reply with quote
lunarmm wrote:
Septembergirl wrote:
I am planning my next rolling on some scars on my legs on Friday. I still have flaking and soreness from rolling last Friday. Hopefully some of the experienced rollergirls can advise me whether to go ahead now or wait until the area is healed.


I would wait. The long rollers are not meant to be used that often and it's been less than a week since you rolled last. The point of the process is to allow the area to heal as the positive results of dermarolling using the .75mm and longer rollers comes from the the body's natural healing process.


Horst Liebl (one of the inventors) just posted again on his blog that deep rolls should be spaced 6 weeks apart...

Quote:
Also keep in mind, depending on your skin condition, your may need 2 to 3 CIT treatments. They should be separated at least six weeks, as new collagen formation of type III needs time to mature.
http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/possible-side-effects/#comments


And his previous recommendation:

Quote:
The needling interval is a good question and we do not have yet the right answer. But if one looks at the fast response to needling of acne scars, we know that an interval of about 6 weeks is sufficient. Personally I am more on your side and I would like to see longer intervals. But at present, in so called modern times, we have a problem: people are impatient and they “want it now”. Although you should not forget, many physicians are often pushed for fast results. They actually should be the protagonists and tell people to be patient. However, why should a new cell formation influence the previous needle induced ones?
http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/question-about-treatment-intervals/



However, there are conflicting opinions on this. The other inventor (Des Fernandes) says the following:

Quote:
1 mm Needling: Frequently Asked Questions

How long can one wait between
treatments in the series of six?

No less than one week, and a maximum
of three weeks between treatments.


And in the exact SAME article it says:

Quote:
Subsequent Micro-needling sessions
Micro-needling can be undertaken at any
interval between one week and a maximum
of one month.


I did find this part very interesting...here they are advocating 1mm needling over 3mm needling:

Quote:
Dr. Fernandes believes that with topical anesthesia alone one does not get the concentration of needle holes that we can get with needling done under full local anesthesia. However, each repeated treatment adds to the treatment before, and by the sixth treatment one has definitely gotten at least as many — and probably more — holes than after one heavy 3 mm needling. We believe this will lead to better results.


http://www.dermaconcepts.com/2004/environ1mmNeedling1.pdf

However, if soreness is still present I would let that drive the decision...it doesn't seem like rolling again (when the previous rolling has not sufficiently healed) is a good idea. That is probably why Fernandes has some flexibility even in his shorter timeline.

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Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:10 am      Reply with quote
Thank you. I had to ask because I have got the impression that most of the rollers who are using 1.5 mm rollers have been rolling every week. The sores are not bad now, and I think they will be completely healed within a few days. I think I will be rolling as soon as they are healed, and continue with four more weekly or bi-weekly treatments.

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Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:08 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Has anyone else's skin turned into a SPONGE since they rolled?

I am constantly putting on emu oil or squalane, and 10 minutes later it has been sucked up into my skin. At this point, I am wishing I had some emu oil balm of some sort to slather on myself! (hmmm...I may need to see if they even make that...)

Yes, it's funny, isnt it? I was amazed at how much avocado oil my hands were drinking in. It does taper off, though, though my hands are still a bit drier than before, and I havent rolled them for at least a month. I keep feeding them. The collagen is still laying down, the repair is still continuing, I guess.
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