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rileygirl
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:30 pm      Reply with quote
What a great post, FloridaUSA. I love the analogy! I will be watching for your progress with great interest. Do you use any skin care before and/or after your roll?

I did my 2nd roll on Saturday, still only using the .5 mm. This time I made sure to use a good amount of pressure and I could hear the needles going into my skin at certain spots. My face looked like I had a mild sunburn when I was finished and I could see some puncture marks. I applied a combination of the 302 A-boost and C-boost after the roll. I have ordered the 1 mm size, and am looking forward to using it!
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:30 pm      Reply with quote
FloridaUSA wrote:
I heard a great analogy for the results I am looking for – when we are young, we have a size 5 body and face and size 5 skin that fits nice and snug. But just like a pair of snug jeans, after you wear them for a while, they loosen up - after a couple decades I have a size 5 body and face, and size 7 skin! Im hoping the needling will help shrink my skin back to a size 6, anyway!


Florida, I love that analogy!

BTW, I was hit with the MAJOR itching this time around on my chest...something I didn't have when I used the .5mm but did with the 1.0mm. It was SOOO bad that I had to pull out the cortisone as a last resort (which we all know is bad for collagen development).

Oh...I am in FL too. Those sunspots are sure hard to avoid! I have the LED, have done 4 Fraxel treatments, and am NOW on to dermarolling! Very Happy

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platinumrose
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:45 pm      Reply with quote
Now I know Bethany is waiting to post her "scientific results" but I am going for it after two weeks.

My chest definitely does not like this gadget. It gets bumpy, not itchy but it is just going to have to get use to it and deal with it.

My face, well I am seeing results. Very fine lines are starting to go away. Sun/age? spots (the CA girl who baked on the beach) are fading.

Too soon to see very much more but I am a believer in this gadget. I personally wouldn't go further than what I have now (the 5 mm) because I am just looking for product absorption. I always knew I had tough skin that didn't penetrate products well and I think this is my ticket to getting ingredients into my skin.

Thanks ALL for your help.

55, combination skin (oily T-zone), Elysee skin care, Dermaroller, Radiesse.
bethany
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:33 pm      Reply with quote
platinumrose wrote:
Now I know Bethany is waiting to post her "scientific results" but I am going for it after two weeks.

My chest definitely does not like this gadget. It gets bumpy, not itchy but it is just going to have to get use to it and deal with it.

My face, well I am seeing results. Very fine lines are starting to go away. Sun/age? spots (the CA girl who baked on the beach) are fading.

Too soon to see very much more but I am a believer in this gadget. I personally wouldn't go further than what I have now (the .5 mm) because I am just looking for product absorption. I always knew I had tough skin that didn't penetrate products well and I think this is my ticket to getting ingredients into my skin.

Thanks ALL for your help.

55, combination skin (oily T-zone), Elysee skin care, Dermaroller, Radiesse.


Platinum, my chest staged an out and out REVOLT after my roll with my 1.0mm....I am not sure I will be doing that again. Embarassed I rolled it on Friday night, and my chest is STILL fire engine red and extremely itchy today, even though my face that I rolled on Saturday looks pretty good.

The skin on your chest is actually thinner and more sensitive than on your face, so I may just stick to the .5mm....especially since I *think* I saw results after one roll! (But I am waiting longer before I declare it a true success Very Happy )

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bethany
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:39 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Platinum, my chest staged an out and out REVOLT after my roll with my 1.0mm....I am not sure I will be doing that again. Embarassed I rolled it on Friday night, and my chest is STILL fire engine red and extremely itchy today, even though my face that I rolled on Saturday looks pretty good.

The skin on your chest is actually thinner and more sensitive than on your face, so I may just stick to the .5mm....especially since I *think* I saw results after one roll! (But I am waiting longer before I declare it a true success Very Happy )


Someone asked me a question about my chest hives on another thread, and it caused me to think about this a little further...

My chest is very sensitive...if I use Retin-A or ANY retinol more than once a week on my chest, I am guaranteed to get hives there.

I used Retin-A after my .5mm roll and experienced a little irritation. But when I used it after the 1.0mm roll, my chest went beserk....as in WAY worse than any reaction to any product in my entire life. Shock Shock Shock

While my chest may not have loved the 1.0mm roller, I think the extreme hives may actually be due to the deeper delivery of the Retin-A (as caused by the 1.0mm)

Regardless of whether I use the .5mm or the 1.0mm next time, I think I will wait until the following day to put the Retin-A on my chest and neck.

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Kassy_A
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:56 pm      Reply with quote
Beth, I wonder if taking a Benadryl or any Antihistamine prior to rolling, would alleviate the hives and or itch?

You probably have the right idea though, to forego the Retin A till the next day.

You roller girls have my complete and utter admiration...... Shock

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bethany
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:10 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Beth, I wonder if taking a Benadryl or any Antihistamine prior to rolling, would alleviate the hives and or itch?

You probably have the right idea though, to forego the Retin A till the next day.

You roller girls have my complete and utter admiration...... Shock


Kassy, I have been taking Benedryl at night to help with the itching, and it has made a difference.

While I haven't shared my full thoughts on rolling yet, I can tell you that I saw results after just one roll. Despite the hives and redness, I will be forging onward! Very Happy

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Kassy_A
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Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:16 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
Beth, I wonder if taking a Benadryl or any Antihistamine prior to rolling, would alleviate the hives and or itch?

You probably have the right idea though, to forego the Retin A till the next day.

You roller girls have my complete and utter admiration...... Shock


Kassy, I have been taking Benedryl at night to help with the itching, and it has made a difference.

While I haven't shared my full thoughts on rolling yet, I can tell you that I saw results after just one roll. Despite the hives and redness, I will be forging onward!
Very Happy


ARGHHH! I soooo didn't want to hear that.. Confused I really need to stay very far away from this thread.. Laughing

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:16 am      Reply with quote
I have no issues with rolling or putting products on my face - but my chest is another story. I get hives too - that turn into bloody weeping itchy sores. It's been that way forever and I think it's mainly due to sun damage. I have to be so careful of what moisturisers and sunscreens I use. I don't seem to have any trouble with oils though. The other night I rolled my chest for the first time with the .5mm roller and afterwards applied some avocado oil. So far, so good, no reaction - but I sympathise with those of you who are sensitive in this area.
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:18 am      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
ARGHHH! I soooo didn't want to hear that.. Confused I really need to stay very far away from this thread.. Laughing


Come on Kassy - you know you'll cave enventually!! Very Happy
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:42 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
I have no issues with rolling or putting products on my face - but my chest is another story. I get hives too - that turn into bloody weeping itchy sores. It's been that way forever and I think it's mainly due to sun damage. I have to be so careful of what moisturisers and sunscreens I use. I don't seem to have any trouble with oils though. The other night I rolled my chest for the first time with the .5mm roller and afterwards applied some avocado oil. So far, so good, no reaction - but I sympathise with those of you who are sensitive in this area.


Keliu, is this your VERY first time rolling your chest?

I sure hope you stay hive free. Mine actually took about 36 hours before they reached their peak, and it has been hell ever since! I would LOVE to use the cortisone again, but I am trying very hard to stick to just the emu oil (I did squalane for the first 2 days, but finally decided that I needed some anti-inflammatory assistance because it looked and felt SOOO bad). I think my 302 Face & Body bar is helping with the healing too.

Needless to say, I am not considering ANY actives on my chest until this is fully healed.

And you don't even want to know how much emu and squalane I have been through since Friday....fortunately the squalane is pretty cheap, and I am alternating that with the emu. I do think that the emu is more moisturizing though, and my sponge skin seems to need it right now. Rolling Eyes

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:46 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Keliu, is this your VERY first time rolling your chest?


Yep, first time. I haven't tried it before because I know how reactive my chest is but due to all the rolling, the skin on my face is looking so much better - which highlights my crappy looking chest skin even more. I've also been going at it with the Vaculifter.
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:44 am      Reply with quote
obsessedshopper wrote:
I can't even imagine using this on my face without terrible consequences . . . but I am sooo interested. Anyone here with extraordinarily sensitive skin use it?


Obsessedshopper, many of us have sensitive skin, and have been able to use this without issues.

If you look a couple of posts before this one, you'll see that I did have some issues with rolling my chest, but I have figured out that I just need to avoid the Retin-A immediately after I roll.

I also had a very bad swelling experience the first time I rolled my face, but figured out that it was either due to too much sodium before (and after) rolling, or that I was possibly allergic to the numbing cream that I used. However, the 2nd roll on my face was a piece of cake since I eliminated both the sodium and the Super T.

It's all about figuring out what your triggers may be, and then trying to avoid them...preferably BEFORE rolling! Laughing

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:26 am      Reply with quote
I was rolling the scars and marks on the back of my calves and thighs for the second time today. I had to wait 11 days since my first roll to give the areas time to heal.

I have noticed one weird thing that I wonder if others have experienced. The scars on my right calf are worse than those on the left side, and I rolled them more aggressively the first time. In spite of that, I have hardly had any flaking on the right calf, whereas the left calf has been flaking a lot. Due to all the skin flaking, I can see an improvement on the left leg and no difference on the right one. Confused

This is a mystery to me. Does this mean that one doesn't necessarily have to roll aggressively to obtain results, and perhaps even should roll more carefully? Or is this difference perhaps caused by other factors? Question

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:55 am      Reply with quote
septembergirl:
what size roller are you using for your legs?

I did a roll last night with a .5 for my face and neck. I used vit c and Trazorac before and after. It stung like a bee. I lived and it didn't last long. I know the product was going into my skin.

Do you all feel this is a good combination to use? I ususally add Maxtriyl 3000 too. I forgot to use it last night.
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:27 pm      Reply with quote
Here is a link with good information on lip lines and rolling.

http://www.psp-interactive.com/issues/articles/2007-01_07.asp

I hope the link works.
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:43 pm      Reply with quote
OK, I did my first 1.5 mm dermaroller treatment last night. The upper lip really hurt and as a result was done very gently. I'd say the rest of my face was done with a medium roll. I had a few (say 5) pinpoint drops of blood and my entire face was beet red when I finished.

I simply washed my face with cool water (previously boiled) when finished. This a.m. I applied L-ascorbic acid (in water) and it stung. However, my face looked normal in the morning.

I'm not sure how aggressive I can be w/o a numbing product. I'm going to repeat the light/mod. roll every 9 days (due to my work schedule.)

I'm considering a topical numbing creme for my "aggressive" mid-July roll. I open to suggestions for favorites and where to purchase.

Christine
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:46 pm      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
septembergirl:
what size roller are you using for your legs?

I did a roll last night with a .5 for my face and neck. I used vit c and Trazorac before and after. It stung like a bee. I lived and it didn't last long. I know the product was going into my skin.
Do you all feel this is a good combination to use? I ususally add Maxtriyl 3000 too. I forgot to use it last night.


Hello, sherry.
I use the 1.5 mm roller on my legs.

I put on ice prior to rolling, but doing the calves is painful. Rolling the thighs is indeed more bearable.

Personally, I apply either a non-acid vitamin C serum or retinol pre- and post-rolling.

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:04 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
ARGHHH! I soooo didn't want to hear that.. Confused I really need to stay very far away from this thread.. Laughing


Come on Kassy - you know you'll cave enventually!! Very Happy



ARGGHHH! You know me too well C... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Okay now, You Roller Ho's (meant very affectionately BTW), have me teetering on the fence.......I need a nudge one way or the other.

Please tell me what is the smallest size I can try, that will still give me some result? I know I read the .5 helps with product absorption, but does it do anything else?

Does the 1. take care of a couple of issues? In other words, is it good for absorption and collagen synthesis... Pray Pray ???

DH and I will be on vacation starting 6/21, it's probably a good idea to wait till I'm back home right?

And finally, what exactly are the results you guys are seeing? Have you taken before pictures and seeing a difference.. What all is happening? I really only have a few crows feet around my eyes, and wouldn't mind a little more firming at the jaw, would rolling do that?

Okay that's enough of that, and I'll look forward to your expert answers... Laughing Very Happy Laughing


Now, reading a couple of the previous post's reminded me of something I heard on the news the other day, (Beth, perhaps you heard it in your neck of the woods as well.).. Anyway, it seems the water bottles we love so much are the cause of vertical lip lines... Shock .. I tend to believe this, because in the last 2 years, I have been attached at the hip to my water bottle, and only lately am noticing a few of the dreaded lines above my upper lip. If you look in a mirror and take a swig, you'll see what I saw... So for me now, it's wide mouth bottles or a glass! Just thought I'd share.


TIA for your help and guidance!

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:32 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Please tell me what is the smallest size I can try, that will still give me some result? I know I read the .5 helps with product absorption, but does it do anything else?

Does the 1. take care of a couple of issues? In other words, is it good for absorption and collagen synthesis... Pray Pray ???


Kassy, I think the only people who can really answer these questions are the doctors who invented these fun little toys. Here are some of their perspectives below. BTW, you don't need a .5mm for product penetration...a .15mm is what is actually recommended for that.

bethany wrote:
Kris_*Kringle* wrote:
Thanks Bethany!

Could you please tell me what is the smallest size needles that can be used to stimulate collagen production?

In one place I saw .5 (which made me happy), but then elsewhere I saw it had to be 1.5

My main areas of concern are lines above my lip, and some crepiness on my lower neck.

Thanks again for all your wonderful input!

Krista


Krista,

There are many opinions on this, and I am new to rolling so I cannot base this on my personal experience. We all know that I research things to death, so let me point out what the experts say:

Horst Liebl (one of the inventors) describes his products in the following manner...you will see that HE says that .5mm is capable of collagen production. I am including all of his models so that you can see how he recommends using each of them

Quote:
The Dermaroller™ consists of a series of devices, which have both cosmetic and medical applications. Their mechanism of action is through the painless piercing of the stratum corneum of the epidermis and the subsequent tremendous increase in absorption of every substance one might apply on the human skin.

The Dermaroller™ C-8 (Cosmetic type), consists of a 12cm handle at the end of which lies a cylinder, like a small paint-roller, of 2cm diameter and 2cm length. On the surface of the cylinder, 24 circular arrays of 8 needles each (total 192 needles) are found, with a needle length of only 0.13mm (130 µm).
Rolling the cylinder on the skin surface creates micro-channels on the stratum corneum, through which any kind of substance applied on the skin will gain access to the deeper and viable skin layers. The size is of the needles is more than enough to pierce the stratum corneum and allow increase in absorption of almost 10,000-fold compared to simple application to skin, but are small enough to be absolutely painless on the skin.

The Dermaroller™ C-8HE (Cosmetic model for hair-bearing surfaces, scalp - later named: Model M03) has the same size and amount of needles with the Dermaroller C-8, but the needle length is 0.3mm (300 µm). This length is still below the pain threshold, as it will be later demonstrated.

The Dermaroller™ CIT-8 (CIT: Collagen Induction Therapy, Medical model) has the same characteristics with the Cosmetic types but in this case the needle length is 0.5mm (500 µm). Rolling the cylinder on the skin surface creates deeper micro-channels on the stratum corneum, through which any kind of substance we apply on the skin will gain access to even deeper and viable skin layers. On the same time, controlled, minuscule trauma is caused to the dermis, which reacts physiologically by producing collagen. The exact mechanisms of action are described later.

The Dermaroller™ MF-8 has the same characteristics with the Cosmetic types but in this case the needle length is 1.5mm (1500µm). Rolling the cylinder on the skin surface creates even deeper micro-channels on the whole epidermis and dermis. At the same time, these longer needles will destroy scar collagen bundles, atrophic stretch marks or cellulitis bundles (orange skin).

The Dermaroller™ MS-4 is the only Dermaroller that has a smaller cylinder, 1cm length, 2cm diameter, and subsequently 4 circular arrays of needles (total 96 needles). It has the same needle length like the MF-8 model, that is 1.5mm (1500µm), it has the same indications of use like the MF-8 but mostly on areas where precision and deeper penetration is required. It is mostly used on facial acne scars.

http://www.dermaroller.de/us/science/percutanous-delivery.html


Fernandes (the other inventor) also sells a line of rollers called Environ, and published an article specifically talking about usage in lip lines...he used either a 1mm or a 3mm.

Quote:
Large and Small Needles
Currently, two types of surgical needles are used in this procedure: a 1-mm model and a deeper-penetrating 3-mm version. Each also comes in various gauges to better address the area to be treated.

The advantages of using a 1-mm roller are that the procedure is easily performed with topical anesthesia and there is virtually no downtime. The skin bleeds only to a minor degree and looks flushed immediately after the treatment. After 1 day, the skin looks as though the patient has a modest sunburn. When treating lips with a 1-mm needle, the procedure should be repeated every 2 to 3 weeks for a total of at least six treatments.

http://www.vivida.co.za/news/show_article/3


If you are really scared about this, but still want to try it, my personal recommendation is that you start with a .25mm. That should help alleviate any fears that you have, and it will NOT be wasted money because you can use it several times a week and increase your product penetration.

Then, if you want to work up, you can make your next choice. But I would probably go with the 1.0mm over the .5mm.

Those are just my thoughts from the peanut gallery. Smile

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:43 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy,
I started with the leaf and rush roller that Dr. Phil's wife spoke about on his show one day. I still use it daily for production penetration. It actually feels good, puffs the skin nicely and I never had problems. Later I got a 1.5 and a .5. But I still enjoy my little leaf and rush roller to get the additives in. Isn't it something like 400% penetration? Anyway that is a good way to start. My face has responded beautifully. Now I have only rolled my body once and it took some time to bounce back. strangely my face has been much easier.
Ann
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:52 pm      Reply with quote
Toby wrote:
Kassy,
I started with the leaf and rush roller that Dr. Phil's wife spoke about on his show one day. I still use it daily for production penetration. It actually feels good, puffs the skin nicely and I never had problems. Later I got a 1.5 and a .5. But I still enjoy my little leaf and rush roller to get the additives in. Isn't it something like 400% penetration? Anyway that is a good way to start. My face has responded beautifully. Now I have only rolled my body once and it took some time to bounce back. strangely my face has been much easier.
Ann


FYI...the Leaf & Rusher is .15mm.

I really want one (the .25mm is still quite prickly), and am still hoping that Jack can get us a discounted one.

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:01 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Please tell me what is the smallest size I can try, that will still give me some result? I know I read the .5 helps with product absorption, but does it do anything else?

Does the 1. take care of a couple of issues? In other words, is it good for absorption and collagen synthesis... Pray Pray ???

And finally, what exactly are the results you guys are seeing? Have you taken before pictures and seeing a difference.. What all is happening? I really only have a few crows feet around my eyes, and wouldn't mind a little more firming at the jaw, would rolling do that?


I believe you will see results from using a .5 roller - it's easy to use, not painful and you can use it more often than a longer roller. You will still be "injuring" the skin and, therefore, the skin will still be healing so I think it's useful for skin re-surfacing.

For real collagen building you will need a longer roller but I would go for a 1.5 over a 1. because the pain factor is about the same.

The main benefits I have seen are a thickening of the skin and a lessening of wrinkles around the eyes and mouth. Overall, my skin looks more refined and fresher. Sagging skin is my main bug-bear and I would not say that I've seen much improvement around the jawline. However, I don't think anything is going to put 58 year old skin back to where it was when it was 30 other than a face-lift. However, the fresher, smoother skin is contributing to a more youthful appearance in general.
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Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:45 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you 'Roller Diva's' one and all!

Could you guys point me to the best place to purchase.. (I can't find the thread Beth did.)


Thanks again for all the input. I have plenty of reading to do now, before I decide if I'm brave enough for Roller Girls anonymous... Laughing Laughing (I soooo want to try this.. Confused )

Thank you much...

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:00 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
Could you guys point me to the best place to purchase.. (I can't find the thread Beth did.)


Here's the Ebay seller of the Dr. Roller - they're the same ones that are sold by the Nova Clinic. If you buy from the seller direct (not through Ebay) and mention you belong to EDS I think there's a discount.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZbackstrecords
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