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foxe
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:58 am      Reply with quote
TC - an exfoliative will help in removing the old/top layers of scar tissue for you. This is what helps the CPs penetrate and do their thing. The roller will also help w/ penetration of your active (longer needles for the penetration & collegen).

You can use your glove, but I think the exfoliatives (AHA or BHA or retiniods/retinols) are the best. There are also some peels that can be used.

Try your glove for a while. If it doesn't seem to give you enuf action, move up to some other type of exfoliative.

types of exfoliatives:

retinoids: Retin A, Tazorac, Renova, Retin A Micro (Rx only)studies show retinoids to generate collegen on their own/eliminate some wrinkles
retinols: a form of vitamin A, but not as strong as a retinoid (Green Cream is one, there are many others- all are non-Rx)
AHA - alpha hydroxy acid(many types)
BHA - beta hydroxy acid (salicylic acid)

This is a short list, but these are the most prevalant ones.

Look around for resellers- there are many places to purchase these.

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
gemmabella
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:07 pm      Reply with quote
hi girls,

im back on again. hope everyone is good and enjoying the weekend!

i dont mean to be rude but please get back to me about my rolling plan!!! im such a newbie when it comes to this kind of thing and i really need your help. i need to know that im not completely mad for rolling my skin and for not putting any products on my skin at all for over hours after rolling. its 21:00 my time on friday nite and i want to roll around this time tomorrow nite.

ps: i just wanted to say that i have never been apart of a forum where the people are so unselfish and where there is such a sence of community. everyone is out to help everyone else and it really is somthing special in this day and age. and its the only way to improve ourselves. its all very good karma!

gemma.
bethany
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:13 pm      Reply with quote
gemmabella wrote:
wow thats good to hear!
this is my plan:

roll sat nite, do my face 1st and then my body.

use nothing on the skin until monday morning before i go to work, my moisturiser is anti inflamitary so i dont want to interfere with the "repair" process after i roll.

i wont do it again for another 3-4 weeks to make sure im giving myself enough down time and not doing any long term damage.

i cant use any form of vitiman A topically because i do have sensitive skin, but i am taking it daily in suppliment form.
my moisturising cream is an all natural ingredient one that is packed full of vitiman c.

so i know its not ideal but i have to be carefull with my skin. its not tough at all - thats my main reason for doing this to toughen it up and also to remove some fine lines and small scars. does it sound ok to you girls?

thanks in advance.

gemma


Gemma,

Not applying anything after you roll is fine...I would just make sure that you cleanse your skin well when you are done rolling.

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gemmabella
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:31 am      Reply with quote
thank you bethany, will do. i'l invest in a good antibacterial wash today before the big roll!!!
bethany
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:42 am      Reply with quote
gemmabella wrote:
thank you bethany, will do. i'l invest in a good antibacterial wash today before the big roll!!!


Just be sure to use it before and after the roll. Good luck!! Very Happy

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gemmabella
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Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:42 am      Reply with quote
hello all,

well i did it last nite. rolled my face and body with the 1mm. my face didnt really hurt THAT bad but my body was very hard to roll without screaming!!! im glad its over and that i dont have to do it again for another month. im going to do five more monthly sessions with the 1mm. do you think that sounds ok?

thanks for the advice and good wishes!!

gemma.
rileygirl
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Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:01 am      Reply with quote
Sounds like a plan, gemma. You have to judge your own skin, sadly no one can tell you how often to roll!
Septembergirl
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Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:03 am      Reply with quote
Just a little update on my Dermaroller results, or more precisely, the lack thereof.

I was rolling small raised scars on my calves (from electrolysis treatment) and some marks on my thighs weekly/biweekly six times altogether. I used a 1.5 mm Dr Roller and applied a retinol cream on the areas after each treatment. On the non-rolling days I applied avocado oil.

It's now been six weeks since I did my last roll, and unfortunately I have to report that my scars have not improved. Crying or Very sad

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bethany
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Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:14 pm      Reply with quote
Septembergirl wrote:
Just a little update on my Dermaroller results, or more precisely, the lack thereof.

I was rolling small raised scars on my calves (from electrolysis treatment) and some marks on my thighs weekly/biweekly six times altogether. I used a 1.5 mm Dr Roller and applied a retinol cream on the areas after each treatment. On the non-rolling days I applied avocado oil.

It's now been six weeks since I did my last roll, and unfortunately I have to report that my scars have not improved. Crying or Very sad


Septembergirl, they say that it takes at least 6 months for skin to remodel, so don't give up yet. But I definitely can relate to your disappointment.

I did my last roll (in a series of 6) on July 4th so it has been 7 weeks post-roll for me. I initially saw what I *thought* was improvement, but it turned out to be nothing more than micro-inflammation which took at least 3 weeks to fully subside.

I have seen some slight improvement under my eyes, and some softening of a collarbone line and one forehead line. And the back of my hands do look better. But unless some major changes occur between now and the end of the year, I do not view rolling as the fountain of youth by any means.

I have decided that I am going to do another series of 6 rolls and then decide if I want to continue the torture. And I am only willing to do that because the clincals are so compelling.

For the next series of rolls, I am going to follow Fernandes' protocol very closely and apply Vit C and Vit A every day...I may even spring for the Environ product (EssentiA Oil) that he uses.

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nahaha
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:35 am      Reply with quote
Hi to you all! I'm a new member here. I have just done my 2nd dermarolling, with a 1.5mm. I did the previous one about a month ago.

My question: Does anyone else notice that wrinkles and skin quality gets WORSE before it gets better? The same day (yesterday) a few hours after rolling the wrinkles around my eye and mouth were much worse, exaggeratedly so. And today still more noticeable. I seem to remember the same thing happening the last time I did it. Then I forgot about it, and the next time I looked in the mirror I (thought) I noticed improvement. Unfortunately I hadn't been carefully following the changes, to guage the actual difference. Now I definitely notice a huge difference to the worse. I think I remember having read something about how sometimes the skin looks worse (and I don't just mean read and blotchy, I mean exaggerated wrinkles and scars) before it gets better with dermarolling. Has this happened to anyone else? What does your skin look like a day/2 days after a dermaroll?

I would really appreciate feedback on this so I can feel better about it just being a normal part of the process! Rolling Eyes

Thanks all you leading edge gals! Cool

Nahaha
gemmabella
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:24 am      Reply with quote
hi Nahaha,

i have read the entire thread here last week because i wanted to make sure i knew what i was getting myself into!!! apparantly this is common. its happens soon after rolling and then its ment to go and the skin is ment to improve. i just did my 1st roll sat nite with a 1mm dr. roller. i rolled my face and body. about two hours after i rolled and since then to now my skin is looking more wrinkly and not as firm. its not really bad but there is a noticable difference to me. since it was my 1st roll i have nothing to compare it too.

i was very nervous about this before i rolled and the got assured that this does happen and does get better.

it would be great if me and you kept updating our progress as i used the 1mm and you used the 1.5mm. that way i wont feel so insane for doing this to myself in the first place!

gemma.
gemmabella
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:28 am      Reply with quote
if anyone else can give a few details from their rolling exp. it would be a great help for us!!!
nahaha
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:56 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Gemmabella,

I have been pouring over various forums and I only remmeber having seen mention of this once, but now I can't find the quote again. Makes me feel better to hear...I just contacted the Dermaroller site and they replied with a bit of indignation that this had never happened with their rollers, that it is probably because I bought a cheap version online. However I think this reply might be more to protect their own image. I don't know...

Please keep us updated on your progress if it does get better afterwards, and I will do the same. Anybody else have similar issues?

Thanks!
gemmabella
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:37 am      Reply with quote
no problem nahaha,

i used a dr. roller dermaroller and they're ment to be one of the best. heres a quote from one of the other forum members who had the same thing.

"Hi, gemmabella. I would say my wrinkly look lasted 2-3 days tops. It did go away on its own. If you do get the wrinkly look, I would not roll until it has gone, just my opinion! Do you have sensitive skin, gemmabella? And, have you been using retin A or any other actives?

Don't be afraid, really it is not that bad. Just start really light for your first roll, don't press to hard, just get a feel for it on your face. " it was from rileygirl.

i wouldnt pay too much heed to the companies responce as you say they are just trying to protect their image.

gemma.
foxe
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:50 pm      Reply with quote
UPDATE

I've done my 2nd roll. I waited 2 wks (1- per instructions & 2- my blemishes on my cheeks still hadn't settled down)

I used the tridocaine and rolled my face and neck w/ the exception of my unclear cheeks. I am hoping to be able to roll those the next time or perhaps w/in a week.

I waited about 15 minutes for the anethesia to take effect, but should've waited about 5 minutes more. I also rinsed it off prior to rolling (that might've had some effect on it's performance, as I thought it was not strong enuf). I feel that I was able to do a better job of penetration this time and more # of rolls/area than the first time I rolled.

I washed my face prior to applying the Tridocaine, then used Tea Tree Oil for a aneseptic. I also soaked the roller in alcohol and rinsed prior to rolling. (Am I being cautious enuf this time??) I used Tea Tree Oil post roll as well.

After rolling/using TeaTree, I applied a diluted solution of Super CP Serum (5 drops CP/3 drops sterile H2O).

No bad reports thus far. Had some droplets of blood here and there from rolling. Those disappated w/ the tea tree oil rinse. Just some redness (the sunburn look), and a feeling of warmth on the sensitive spots under my mouth.

I am hoping that warmth represents some changes at the cellular level for those areas. They have never returned to normal looking or acting skin since I had my sunlamp issue w/ them decades ago.

All in all - I think I did a better job. Would've liked to roll my whole face, but I'd rather wait til my complexion clears first.

I did hit the upper lip lines pretty good. One line that I 'needled' prior to buying a roller has actually filled in flat already. It did that in about a month! It still has some red color to it - like a scar that is going thru some remodeling - but is no longer a deep wrinkle. I may try the needling again if the roller doesn't show any results in the next mo or so. I think needling the specific spot - hitting it in just the wrinkle and topping it off w/ CPs - is why it filled in.

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
ljk
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:14 pm      Reply with quote
Foxe, when I use Lidocaine, I *don't* rinse it off, the numbness disappears much too quickly for my liking..within about 30 seconds! Confused Is it ok not to rinse it off, and commence rolling? I'm still here, anyway Embarassed

You're brave using Tea Tree Oil, I think my face would fall off completely haha. I ache far too much afterwards for any topicals. I just hope the Lanacane afterwards (with Benzocaine) isn't a bad idea, seeing as anti-inflammatories are a no-no?

I've got CP Serum winging its way to me from NCN..so I hope it doesn't upset my skin, I may try it after future rolls. Two more with the 1.5mm to go!

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rileygirl
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:21 pm      Reply with quote
foxe, explain needling to me, please!
foxe
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:22 pm      Reply with quote
ljk
I'm glad to hear you just left the lidocaine on. I will next time. I'm sure it will work way better (& I'll get a better job done, too!)

I saw the instructions said to apply afterwards, but I didn't do that. As w/ the Tea Tree oil. W/ my complexion being a mess lately, I've used the TToil daily (maybe 2X even), so my skin is definitely used to it.

rileygirl - needling is like 'subcision', but my form is more crude. I just took a sewing needle to the wrinkle and needled as often as I could stand it.
I hear using diabetic needles (used for testing?) are much better as they are finer. Even if one could get hold of the needles used for tatooing - those are also very fine. If you don't have a lot of wrinkles to use subcision on, this method would work. It's when you want to do a whole area that the roller is better suited. I have about 6 upper lip lines that I want to tackle. I actually had a few more (not as deep) that L2K improved for me, but I have stopped using the F2F since starting the CPs. And, of course - the one that has since flattened out w/ my amatuerish attempt at needling.

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foxe
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:31 pm      Reply with quote
ljk- if you've never used CPs before, take it easy in the beginning. they can be very strong for a lot of ppl. if you're getting the serum, just dilute it.

I did it like this:

wk 1 - 7 drops H20/1 drop CP
wk 3 - 6 drops H2O/2 drops CP

every 2 wks increase the CP, and decrease the H2O until you're at full strength CP. You can always moderate w/ Emu Oil (it will buffer or push the CP depending on if you apply B4 or after the CP)

For more info - PM me K? It's a great product to use w/ these rollers.

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rileygirl
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:34 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you, foxe. I have about 6 lines above my upper lip, as well. Unfortunately, the L2K did not take care of them for me.
bethany
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:06 pm      Reply with quote
nahaha wrote:
I just contacted the Dermaroller site and they replied with a bit of indignation that this had never happened with their rollers, that it is probably because I bought a cheap version online. However I think this reply might be more to protect their own image. I don't know...



Some of the people in the US office of Dermaroller appear to read this thread base don some comments they have made to various people. Needless to say, they think we are nuts to be doing this ourselves (vs. having a doctor do it). And at the moment, I tend to agree based on my own skin/rolling issues! Very Happy

You are referring to rapid changes in your skin due to inflammation which can happen at the cellular level...you do NOT have to see redness or even visible puffiness to have micro-inflammation. The good news is that it subsides. The bad news is that your skin will probably reflect NO change after it completely subsides...at least for quite a while.

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bethany
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:49 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Septembergirl wrote:
Just a little update on my Dermaroller results, or more precisely, the lack thereof.

I was rolling small raised scars on my calves (from electrolysis treatment) and some marks on my thighs weekly/biweekly six times altogether. I used a 1.5 mm Dr Roller and applied a retinol cream on the areas after each treatment. On the non-rolling days I applied avocado oil.

It's now been six weeks since I did my last roll, and unfortunately I have to report that my scars have not improved. Crying or Very sad


Septembergirl, they say that it takes at least 6 months for skin to remodel, so don't give up yet. But I definitely can relate to your disappointment.

I did my last roll (in a series of 6) on July 4th so it has been 7 weeks post-roll for me. I initially saw what I *thought* was improvement, but it turned out to be nothing more than micro-inflammation which took at least 3 weeks to fully subside.

I have seen some slight improvement under my eyes, and some softening of a collarbone line and one forehead line. And the back of my hands do look better. But unless some major changes occur between now and the end of the year, I do not view rolling as the fountain of youth by any means.

I have decided that I am going to do another series of 6 rolls and then decide if I want to continue the torture. And I am only willing to do that because the clincals are so compelling.

For the next series of rolls, I am going to follow Fernandes' protocol very closely and apply Vit C and Vit A every day...I may even spring for the Environ product (EssentiA Oil) that he uses.


So I thought I would add a little more info on my current rolling scenario.

Since I am on a break from the long-needle rolls, I decided that I would do some periodic short-needle rolls to help thicken my epidermis while the collagen is still cooking at a deeper level.

They say that you should be able to use a .15m roller 2-3 times a week for product penetration with no inflammation, but that is NOT the case for me. Sad I have never smoked, have avoided the sun for 19+ years, and have used Retin-A for many of those...that adds up to skin that is a bit more sensitive than most.

That said, a .15mm roll usually leaves me red for 24-48 hours and definitely inflammed. Shock And since chronic inflammation over time can be damaging (and you need a full 2 week break from even the invisible micro-inflammation), I can't even use the .15mm roller more frequently than monthly. Crying or Very sad

My first attempt at this a month ago resulted in a major Retin-A/Roller reaction which ended up turning into contact dermatitis which took Rx strength hydrocortisone to resolve (not good!).

One month later (this weekend), I went for it again....with NO RA of course! Very Happy But after my baby roll on Sunday night (and still being red on Tuesday night), I have decided to completely bag ALL rolling for the time being.

I am going to use my ultrasound a couple of times a week for product penetration instead, and consider doing another series of long-needle rolls a couple of months from now (I have already been on break for 7 weeks).

The moral of the story is that everyone needs to find the method that works for them, and it may be VERY different than what everyone else is doing. LISTEN to your skin, and ONLY your skin. And as we all learned from Chinachatter's pics...we have to be be very careful that we do not overdo things and make the sitation worse.

But if all is going well....roll on!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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foxe
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Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:52 am      Reply with quote
bethany - you must have some sensitive skin

have never smoked, have avoided the sun for 19+ years, and have used Retin-A for many of those...that adds up to skin that is a bit more sensitive than most.

I've used Tazorac or Retin A for about 18 years and I can't say it's caused my skin to be sensitive.

I do hope you see some results in a decent amt of time. Those papers do sound promising, don't they?

Keep us updated - K?

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
bethany
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Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:22 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
bethany - you must have some sensitive skin

have never smoked, have avoided the sun for 19+ years, and have used Retin-A for many of those...that adds up to skin that is a bit more sensitive than most.

I've used Tazorac or Retin A for about 18 years and I can't say it's caused my skin to be sensitive.



Foxe, the only things I attribute to RA from a sensitivity standpoint are that regular usage has meant that I don't have a thick build up of damaged skin, I probably have more vascular growth than non-users (which is why I bleed a lot when I roll), and I am definitely more sun sensitive when using it (characteristic of all retinoids).

I am a Fitzpatrick skin Type I, so I would be sensitive with or without RA, but I know from experience that it does heighten my sensitivity.

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Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:26 am      Reply with quote
Great post, Bethany. I think you are dead on. Everyone needs to listen to their own skin and not try to follow someone's routine. It may take months of trial and error to find what is working and/or not working!
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Decleor Prolagene Lift, Lift & Firm Day Cream - Normal Skin (50 ml / 1.7 oz) Sothys Anti-Ageing Comfort Cream - Grade 2 (50 ml / 1.69 floz) Bremenn Clinical Strength Smooth Serum (50 ml / 1.7 floz)