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DermaRoller

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Keliu
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Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:29 pm      Reply with quote
Beehive wrote:
And the thing is, I didn't even press that hard, so I am kind of doubtful on whether I reached destination (those darn fibroplasts.) My face is red but it did not bleed at all.

Is it a must that one bleeds with the 1.5? How do you all know that you are pressing hard enough?


I know how you feel, I wonder if I press hard enough sometimes. However, everyone is different - some people seem to bleed more than others. You may want to consider using some kind of topical anesthetic next time to see if that helps with the ouch factor and allows you to press harder. I try not to worry about it too much and just do the best I can - on some occasions it seems to hurt more than others for some reason.
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Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:43 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Everyone,

I hope you don't mind me asking, but can someone give me advice on rolling the eyelids?

I've just ordered my 1.5 3 line from Jack (thanks to the great tips I learned from this forum!!) and have also ordered my numbing cream from Canada.

When they finally get here - what do I do to roll the eyelids? Do I keep my eyes closed? Or open? And, do I stretch the skin first? (I'm assuming that I'm just going to do the part of the eyelid that's over the bone - not the eyeball itself, right?)

This beauty stuff is so complicated!! Embarassed

Thanks in advance!!
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Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:46 pm      Reply with quote
Oh, and I also forgot (sorry!)

I've been reading the Dermaroller threads - and I'm still a bit confused as to whether it's okay to roll over the small broken capillaries (next to the nose, etc.)

It seems some people have rolled over them and seen them disappear?

Or could the rolling actually make them worse?

Sorry for so many questions...

(Thanks again, in advance... You ladies here on this forum are just a font of information!!)
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:24 am      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I hope you don't mind me asking, but can someone give me advice on rolling the eyelids?

I've just ordered my 1.5 3 line from Jack (thanks to the great tips I learned from this forum!!) and have also ordered my numbing cream from Canada.

When they finally get here - what do I do to roll the eyelids? Do I keep my eyes closed? Or open? And, do I stretch the skin first? (I'm assuming that I'm just going to do the part of the eyelid that's over the bone - not the eyeball itself, right?)

This beauty stuff is so complicated!! Embarassed

Thanks in advance!!


I do it with the eye open, but it will really make sense to you when you do it anyway. I stretch the skin quite taught and roll horizontally (I don't roll in the other direction in this area).

To answer your other ? I think the concensus is that it is fine to roll over you capilleries. SOme people have noticed improvement in them, possibly due to thickening of the skin. Someone else asked this question just up a bit, so checkout that response too!!!

cheers

rebecca

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catski
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:12 am      Reply with quote
Hi Rebecca, I've started rolling around my eyes with the 3 liner. It's a really nice roller, isnt it? It doesnt seem to hurt as much as some others.
Do you find that? ( Or am I just rolling in a reeeally cowardly way?) I find that the skin around my eyes doesnt go red, really.. okay, the more I say here, the more I think maybe I am doing super - weedy weak rolls..

SO Rebecca, how many repetitions do you do on a roll, and what effects do you get? How many have you done?

I have rolled twice, doing 3-5 repetitions.
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:15 am      Reply with quote
OK, Im so confused as to what to order now! Maybe one of you forum vets can help me, I feel like Ive read so much information now Im even more confused LOL.

I am 32, I dont have any severe wrinkles, just the lines under my eyes & crows feet only when I smile.. I am looking for a roller that I can use to help the products that I use ( mostly Skinmedica TNS ) to penetrate the skin & be more effective.

Can someone please tell me what would be the best roller for me, & where I can find it.. Thank you so much in advance!
mogulicious
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:45 am      Reply with quote
Hi Buckeye - for your purpose, you would probably want to start with the .25 to drive in your products. I use a .25 Dr. Roller, but after a while, now I periodically use a .50 dermaroller at to drive in bedtime products. Many of us here have been happy ordering Dr. Roller products from:

Jack at One-Stop
Call: 1-866-583-7883
Hours: 10am to 4pm ET
Email: backstrecords2@yahoo.com

Be sure to ask for your EDS discount!

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Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:47 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Snowqueen - Thanks so much for the answer(s)! I'm trying to keep up with the threads - but they seem to grow faster than I can read! (Here's just hoping that clumsy me doesn't poke my eye out with the roller when I try it!)

Buckeye - I'm just a newbie - not a forum vet - but I *did* read the entire (well, entire awhile back, anyway) dermarolling thread. It seems it depends on what you want to accomplish with your dermarolling. If you're only looking to help your products penetrate, then the 0.25mm should be sufficient.

In case you hadn't seen it - Bethany posted a VERY informative thread with a bunch of links and articles about dermarolling.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

There's also a thread which covers the exact question of "What size and why":

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=402196

Apparently Bethany says that she no longer recommends them just for product penetration:

Quote:
I am personally no longer a fan of using them for product penetration...they caused way too much inflammation for me to be used several times a week.

If you do go that route, I would not go longer than .15mm (which is only the Leaf & Rusher roller at this point) and you should not use it more than 2-3x a week max. Even that will increase your epidermal thickness by 30% or so in 2-3 months per Dr. Liebl.

But if you are prone to inflammation or irritation, please think carefully about trying this...it is not for everyone.


Hope this helps!
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:03 pm      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
When they finally get here - what do I do to roll the eyelids? Do I keep my eyes closed? Or open? And, do I stretch the skin first? (I'm assuming that I'm just going to do the part of the eyelid that's over the bone - not the eyeball itself, right?)


Definitely don't roll over your eyeball. Just do under your eyebrows on the bone. You can put one finger at the end of your eyebrow and pull the skin up and tight - and be careful, don't press too hard. Also, don't get the numbing cream in your eye.
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:25 pm      Reply with quote
mogulicious wrote:
Hi Buckeye - for your purpose, you would probably want to start with the .25 to drive in your products. I use a .25 Dr. Roller, but after a while, now I periodically use a .50 dermaroller at to drive in bedtime products. Many of us here have been happy ordering Dr. Roller products from:

Jack at One-Stop
Call: 1-866-583-7883
Hours: 10am to 4pm ET
Email: backstrecords2@yahoo.com

Be sure to ask for your EDS discount!


You might also want to consider the .15mm Leaf & Rusher TX Roller, though it is more expensive. But using even it more than 2-3x a week is not recommended.

I personally prefer a 3mhz ultrasound....it allows your topicals to penetrate through "cavitations" created temporarily by the ultrasonic waves. This is a much better solution for people who tend to turn very red and sunburned looking the next day...no matter how short the needles are.

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Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:43 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I personally prefer a 3mhz ultrasound....it allows your topicals to penetrate through "cavitations" created temporarily by the ultrasonic waves. This is a much better solution for people who tend to turn very red and sunburned looking the next day...no matter how short the needles are.


I have one of these, since you kindly pointed it out to me on eBay (thankyou! Very Happy ), and I really like it.

However, I'm really after the dermal-thickening feature of the roller. That is the ONLY reason I will keep bothering with the .25mm anymore, and since I do it infrequently, I'm guessing I won't get optimum results from that.

Btw, thanks for the suggestion on the exercises for helping to lift the eyelids. I actually have the Flex Effect program, I just haven't had the motivation to do it for the past couple months (that OR regular exercise either Neutral ...) I just did a couple of the eye exercises tonight though, along with the massage, and my eyes already look a lot better. Hopefully it's not just the same type of temporary mild inflammation that makes people look better for a few days after rolling.
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:29 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
bethany wrote:
I personally prefer a 3mhz ultrasound....it allows your topicals to penetrate through "cavitations" created temporarily by the ultrasonic waves. This is a much better solution for people who tend to turn very red and sunburned looking the next day...no matter how short the needles are.


I have one of these, since you kindly pointed it out to me on eBay (thankyou! Very Happy ), and I really like it.

However, I'm really after the dermal-thickening feature of the roller. That is the ONLY reason I will keep bothering with the .25mm anymore, and since I do it infrequently, I'm guessing I won't get optimum results from that.

Btw, thanks for the suggestion on the exercises for helping to lift the eyelids. I actually have the Flex Effect program, I just haven't had the motivation to do it for the past couple months (that OR regular exercise either Neutral ...) I just did a couple of the eye exercises tonight though, along with the massage, and my eyes already look a lot better. Hopefully it's not just the same type of temporary mild inflammation that makes people look better for a few days after rolling.


That is great news!

Keep in mind that the .25mm will thicken the epidermis, but not the dermis. But for people that have really thinned the top layer of their skin, using it a couple of times a week can thicken their epidermis by up to 30% over 2-3 months.

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mogulicious
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Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:13 am      Reply with quote
Bethany - performance-wise, what is the difference between your ultrasound unit and the Quasar SP?

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Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:13 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:

I know how you feel, I wonder if I press hard enough sometimes. However, everyone is different - some people seem to bleed more than others. You may want to consider using some kind of topical anesthetic next time to see if that helps with the ouch factor and allows you to press harder. I try not to worry about it too much and just do the best I can - on some occasions it seems to hurt more than others for some reason.


Thanks Keliu. I'm sure I didn't leave the bactine spray/anesthetic on long enough because I just wanted to get the rolling over with. Next time, I'll leave it on a full 15/20 minutes.

Little embarrassing tidbit: That night, I put my roller in a glass with rubbing alcohol to disinfect, and later took the roller out but left the glass with the alcohol on my bathroom sink. In the middle of the night I got up to use the bathroom and grabbed the glass, took a swig - thinking it was water! Ack! Thankfully, I didn't swallow it. What a dumbass!
bethany
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Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:43 pm      Reply with quote
mogulicious wrote:
Bethany - performance-wise, what is the difference between your ultrasound unit and the Quasar SP?


Mog, the Quasar LED *may* help product penetration, but I certainly haven't seen anything measuring the success of that. However, ultrasound is actually used for transdermal drug delivery

Should you want to read up on this, here are some links for you:


Very Basic Articles:

The Use of Ultrasound in Cosmetic Surgery
http://www.spasf.com/Ultrasoundtherapy.htm

Ultrasound-assisted Facial Skin Rejuvenation
http://www.ienhance.com/article/Detail.asp?ArtID=387


More In-Depth Articles:

ULTRASOUND ENHANCED SKIN REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGY EMERGES
http://medaestheticsolutions.com/images/pdf/mcdaniel%20article.pdf

Three-MHz Ultrasound Heats Deeper Into the Tissues Than Originally Theorized
http://www.nata.org/jat/readers/archives/39.3/i1062-6050-39-3-230.pdf

Study of Whitening Effects of Sonophoresis
http://www.mew.co.jp/e-tecrepo/533e/main02.html

Intradermal drug delivery by low frequency sonophoresis (25KHz)
http://dermatology.cdlib.org/102/correspondence/intradermal/santoianni.html

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Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:03 am      Reply with quote
My primary fear with any ultrasonic device (and esp. the 1 MHz) is facial fat loss. A few years ago I purchased a 2 MHz device from the company recommend by Dr. Huber. I was using the 302 skincare line at the time, but decided I was not willing to risk facial fat loss and returned the device.

In the early 80's, I worked in the biomedical engineering department at the University of Rochester. I have actually seen the cavitation bubble. The optics department provided equipment capable of capturing the image. AMAZING. Basically cavitation is a bubble explosion.

I have also seen ultrasound break up kidney stones. Patient is submerged in a water tank for the procedure. [I'm sure the technology has changed significantly from the early 80's.] I actually felt bad for poor patient, who was naked with a catheter in his penis. Myself and another student were selected to observe the procedure as it related to our research using ultrasound to break up gallbladder stones.

Another major concern: Cheap/commercial devices may not be calibrated properly.

What does interest me is the use of a combo 1 and 3 MHz unit to enhance fat loss in my upper thighs Smile
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Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:24 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:

Ultrasound-assisted Facial Skin Rejuvenation
http://www.ienhance.com/article/Detail.asp?ArtID=387



Excerpt:

The waves are conducted to the epidermal tissues via a coupling water base gel placed between the ultrasoundís hand piece and the skinís surface. Physiological benefits are categorized as thermal and non-thermal.

I wonder if this means I've been totally wasting my time by using the 302 oil/lipid based topicals, alone, as a conductor... Confused

Am I stuck using aloe? Sad Aloe vera gel has always been somewhat irritating to my skin, but offhand I can't think of anything better (or easier to find).
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Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:53 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
bethany wrote:

Ultrasound-assisted Facial Skin Rejuvenation
http://www.ienhance.com/article/Detail.asp?ArtID=387



Excerpt:

The waves are conducted to the epidermal tissues via a coupling water base gel placed between the ultrasoundís hand piece and the skinís surface. Physiological benefits are categorized as thermal and non-thermal.

Dr. H recommends continuously misting water on your face as you use the ultrasound with the 302 topicals.

Here is an ultrasound thread for futher discussions:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29006&highlight=ultrasound

I wonder if this means I've been totally wasting my time by using the 302 oil/lipid based topicals, alone, as a conductor... Confused

Am I stuck using aloe? Sad Aloe vera gel has always been somewhat irritating to my skin, but offhand I can't think of anything better (or easier to find).

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Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:50 am      Reply with quote
I'm still not a DermaRoller fan, as I posted previously. I'm pretty sure this is gonna be one of those gadgets people will look back on 20 years from now and laugh their fannies off that we would actually do this in our quest for beauty.

So far, my results with DR runs the gamut from nothing to disaster. The disaster part was on my throat and neck. Needless to say, I was more gentle on those areas, but the first time I did it all over, I broke out from chin to cleavage in what looked like measles! My dermatologist said it was eczema, probably having gotten some cleanser under my skin. I didn't tell him about DR, for fear he would clobber me! I've never had eczema, wasn't even sure what it was, but let me tell you, it's ugly, and it itches a LOT! He prescribed some salve, which cleared it up in a day or two, but now it keeps trying to return.

And frankly, I'm just not into pain. The few times I did it, I felt queasy for an hour afterwards.
Maybe it's just different skin types that are having such success, but I would trade my 2 DRs for just about anything of value Rolling Eyes

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Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:20 am      Reply with quote
gumgirl wrote:
My primary fear with any ultrasonic device (and esp. the 1 MHz) is facial fat loss. A few years ago I purchased a 2 MHz device from the company recommend by Dr. Huber. I was using the 302 skincare line at the time, but decided I was not willing to risk facial fat loss and returned the device.

In the early 80's, I worked in the biomedical engineering department at the University of Rochester. I have actually seen the cavitation bubble. The optics department provided equipment capable of capturing the image. AMAZING. Basically cavitation is a bubble explosion.

I have also seen ultrasound break up kidney stones. Patient is submerged in a water tank for the procedure. [I'm sure the technology has changed significantly from the early 80's.] I actually felt bad for poor patient, who was naked with a catheter in his penis. Myself and another student were selected to observe the procedure as it related to our research using ultrasound to break up gallbladder stones.

Another major concern: Cheap/commercial devices may not be calibrated properly.

What does interest me is the use of a combo 1 and 3 MHz unit to enhance fat loss in my upper thighs Smile


Good points. Cheap products are cheap for a reason. Make sure the manufacturer is reputable and know what the specs are. A 1 Mhz unit should never be used on the face, and the 2 Mhz is for people who have scar issues. I think a 3 Mhz is pretty safe for most people if used correctly. I've used an ultrasound probe or spatula for at least 3 years. At this point, I'm happy enough with my skin that I only use the spatula once every 2 weeks. I haven't seen any fat loss. I'm sure it could happen if it was used incorrectly or the unit was not calibrated correctly, but I haven't heard or read any stories of facial fat loss resulting from facial ultrasound units.
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Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:39 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I wonder if this means I've been totally wasting my time by using the 302 oil/lipid based topicals, alone, as a conductor... Confused

Am I stuck using aloe? Sad Aloe vera gel has always been somewhat irritating to my skin, but offhand I can't think of anything better (or easier to find).


I've used ultrasound with only a glob of 302 Plus serum to spot treat some acne scarring. But if you are doing large areas of your face, I would apply the topical, then mist with water (or calming mist or acne mist), or put aloe on top before using the ultrasound. Have you used straight gel from an aloe plant? Maybe it's other ingredients in the aloe gel that's causing the irritation.
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Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:51 am      Reply with quote
catballou wrote:
I'm still not a DermaRoller fan, as I posted previously. I'm pretty sure this is gonna be one of those gadgets people will look back on 20 years from now and laugh their fannies off that we would actually do this in our quest for beauty.

So far, my results with DR runs the gamut from nothing to disaster. The disaster part was on my throat and neck. Needless to say, I was more gentle on those areas, but the first time I did it all over, I broke out from chin to cleavage in what looked like measles! My dermatologist said it was eczema, probably having gotten some cleanser under my skin. I didn't tell him about DR, for fear he would clobber me! I've never had eczema, wasn't even sure what it was, but let me tell you, it's ugly, and it itches a LOT! He prescribed some salve, which cleared it up in a day or two, but now it keeps trying to return.

And frankly, I'm just not into pain. The few times I did it, I felt queasy for an hour afterwards.
Maybe it's just different skin types that are having such success, but I would trade my 2 DRs for just about anything of value Rolling Eyes


Cat, I went through some similar experiences with the DR until I realized that each person really has to tweak the routine to best meet their skin's needs and tolerance level. Unfortunately, many people can't handle the gung-ho routine of applying Retin-A after rolling, and when they encounter the histamine hives from hell, they throw in the towel (or the roller in this case.)

In my case, the clinicals were compelling enough for me to keep trying to work through the issues I encountered, and my results after 4 months were very impressive. If people started more conservatively (like applying RA 24-48 hours after their initial rolls) and determined their tolerance levels, I think they would see more success. I also found that the hives kept trying to come back until I took several months off...it seemed that my skin needed a complete break from rolling (regardless of needle length) to recover.

Can you share the routine that caused you to break out in the hives?

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Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:29 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, Bethany. Thanks for your response. I'm beginning to wonder if skin thickness might have a great deal to do with success in using DR. I'm a healthy 60 year old, and my skin looks relatively plump, but it's most likely thinner than yours.

Some have talked about using a pain killer on their skin, but all I could find was Orajel, and it actually did numb the skin, a bit, though I had also read that spreading any pain killer over large areas could result in heart failure in healthy adults, so I only used it on the most sensitive areas of my face.

Other than that, I just cleansed the skin and then applied vitamin C serum. I'm obsessive about cleanliness, so I don't think I was remiss in that department.

I won't ever do the DR on my neck and chest again. It seems to have made the skin ultra-sensitive, and I can only use certain cleansers and moisturizers without causing a new break-out. Two of these are the Weleda Sea Buckthorn cleanser and mositurizer. I can't even do the OCM there anymore, and I'm a total convert to OCM.

I don't mean to sound generally negative. I've learned volumes on this forum, and continue to learn everyday, though I don't post often. Skincare has become my newest hobby, and discovering this forum has been life altering, literally.

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Iím 60, never smoked, eat healthy, fitness center + hiking, lots of water and nutrients, size 4 jeans Smile, some lower facial sagging, but itís improving with AALS, Clarisonic, Remergent, L2K, (including her new hand held devices), Ageless exercises, peels, OCM, etc. ďThis is my face; deal with it.Ē Annette Bening
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Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:15 pm      Reply with quote
catballou wrote:
Hi, Bethany. Thanks for your response. I'm beginning to wonder if skin thickness might have a great deal to do with success in using DR. I'm a healthy 60 year old, and my skin looks relatively plump, but it's most likely thinner than yours.

Some have talked about using a pain killer on their skin, but all I could find was Orajel, and it actually did numb the skin, a bit, though I had also read that spreading any pain killer over large areas could result in heart failure in healthy adults, so I only used it on the most sensitive areas of my face.

Other than that, I just cleansed the skin and then applied vitamin C serum. I'm obsessive about cleanliness, so I don't think I was remiss in that department.

I won't ever do the DR on my neck and chest again. It seems to have made the skin ultra-sensitive, and I can only use certain cleansers and moisturizers without causing a new break-out. Two of these are the Weleda Sea Buckthorn cleanser and mositurizer. I can't even do the OCM there anymore, and I'm a total convert to OCM.

I don't mean to sound generally negative. I've learned volumes on this forum, and continue to learn everyday, though I don't post often. Skincare has become my newest hobby, and discovering this forum has been life altering, literally.


You could be right about the skin thickness...the dermis does get thinner as we age.

What length roller did you use?

I typically use a .5mm on my chest due to how thin the skin is there, and my high propensity to to breakout in hives on my chest. I also use a disinfectant before and after I roll to kill any bacteria.

As far as numbing, I use the 10% lidocaine "Climax Spray" from Alldaychemist.com....I cannot roll without that and a full bottle of wine due to the pain. Shock It hasn't caused any heart failure for me yet, but you never know! I am going to be dividing my rolling up over several days by area, so that might be an even better choice if there are issues with using too much numbing agent at one time.

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Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:41 pm      Reply with quote
A full bottle of wine? Shock I would go into a coma! I'm such a cheap drunk, two small wine glassfuls, and it's time for a nap. But I will get the lidocaine you mentioned.

I used the .5 on my neck & chest.

Anywho, I'm going to let the DRs rest. I've bought some peels from Platinum Skin Care, and I'm totally excited about using them. I've got a cold right now, but as soon as I'm back up and running, I'll begin trying them. Hope springs eternal........

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Iím 60, never smoked, eat healthy, fitness center + hiking, lots of water and nutrients, size 4 jeans Smile, some lower facial sagging, but itís improving with AALS, Clarisonic, Remergent, L2K, (including her new hand held devices), Ageless exercises, peels, OCM, etc. ďThis is my face; deal with it.Ē Annette Bening
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:58 am
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