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emmany
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:23 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
emmany - one of the other reasons to use the rollers is to help w/ penetration of skin care products that, in and of themselves, can help to rebuild damaged skin.

I, personally, have had great results w/ copper peptides. I may not be able to hit the 'sweet spot' w/ my rolling technique (even tho I hope to get better at it), but if I can allow my CPs better access to the deeper layers of the dermis and epidermis, then I know they will do a much better job. They already are doing a great job for me. Rolling w/ them will, I feel, produce signficant results.
I agree that the Dermaroller is an excellent idea for deeper penetration of topical products.

PS. I was not trying to solicit you to receive a treatment from me. As I said, I do not operate a fractional C02 laser, nor do I have the legal right to do so. I am a laser technician. As I simply stated, I am a fan of C02 lasers.
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:28 pm      Reply with quote
emmany wrote:
foxe wrote:
emmany - one of the other reasons to use the rollers is to help w/ penetration of skin care products that, in and of themselves, can help to rebuild damaged skin.

I, personally, have had great results w/ copper peptides. I may not be able to hit the 'sweet spot' w/ my rolling technique (even tho I hope to get better at it), but if I can allow my CPs better access to the deeper layers of the dermis and epidermis, then I know they will do a much better job. They already are doing a great job for me. Rolling w/ them will, I feel, produce signficant results.
I agree that the Dermaroller is an excellent idea for deeper penetration of topical products.


As long as you are not an individiual that experiences inflammation. And I know no one want to hear me talk about THAT any more! Very Happy

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Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:46 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry,

this: "PS. I was not trying to solicit you to receive a treatment from me. As I said, I do not operate a fractional C02 laser, nor do I have the legal right to do so. I am a laser technician. As I simply stated, I am a fan of C02 lasers."

was intended for taobunny
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:46 pm      Reply with quote
Agggghhhhh....

Brick wall

I try not to preach to the choir, especially when the choir has told me repeatedly that they don't like my song...
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:09 pm      Reply with quote
Okey Dokey. So let's try to get to the actual topic of this thread...DERMAROLLING!!!

So I rolled The Girls on Sunday, and I know better than to apply Retin A to them. Confused While there are not sheets of skin falling off them like my other body parts, the top layer of skin has definitely hardened, and should peel off gradually.

Will this tighten them up over time and prevent me from having a breast lift? Who knows, but I figured I may as well try it. If doctors can do medical rolls to tighten abs, thighs, and arms after lipo and weightloss, why not my breasts?

And don't worry....I am not planning on posting before and after pictures. Very Happy

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taobunny
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:19 pm      Reply with quote
LMAO! Hey, there'll probably be some folks who'll definitely be disappointed that you're not going to post 'em...

So, did you use any numbing cream to The Girls first? Or at least take them out for drinks (and dancing) first??
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:35 pm      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
LMAO! Hey, there'll probably be some folks who'll definitely be disappointed that you're not going to post 'em...

So, did you use any numbing cream to The Girls first? Or at least take them out for drinks (and dancing) first??


LMAO...they were indeed treated to a full bottle of wine AND numerous servings of Climax Spray! Very Happy

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emmany
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Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:08 pm      Reply with quote
Now that we are back on the subject of dermarollers, I would like to know if a protocal has been established for product penetration. Which topicals are most often being used and at what point before/after are you using them? Also what depth dermarollers are being used for this purpose?

I would think this could be very effective if safely implemented, but if not could cause more harm than good.
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:49 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:

LMAO...they were indeed treated to a full bottle of wine AND numerous servings of Climax Spray!


LOL - sounds better than some dates I've been on! Laughing

So, question for you - I just started the Obagi Nu Derm system. It's only been a few days (just started peeling this morning - yay!) but I'm assuming that doubling up on the insult (i.e. Nu Derm + dermarolling) might be a bit much, right?

Maybe I'll have to take my Girls out for some wine and tridocaine! (Just to keep me busy in the meantime!)
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:05 pm      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
So, question for you - I just started the Obagi Nu Derm system. It's only been a few days (just started peeling this morning - yay!) but I'm assuming that doubling up on the insult (i.e. Nu Derm + dermarolling) might be a bit much, right?


I did that, and I do NOT recommend it!!! Especially if you are new to dermarolling.

I would reccommend waiting until your skin gets through the initial Nu Derm trauma, and then calms down a bit. You can entertain yourself rolling non-Nu Derm areas until then.

Just remember that the chest area is the TOP area that reacts negatively to rolling/RA usage, so you need to proceed very cautiously until you determine your personal tolerance level.

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:09 pm      Reply with quote
Definitely agree with Bethany. Wait and see how your skin responds to the Nu Derm. After the 1st 6 weeks on Obagi, you will know how your skin reacts and you could try a gentle roll at that time, and start experimenting.
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:22 pm      Reply with quote
emmany wrote:
Now that we are back on the subject of dermarollers, I would like to know if a protocal has been established for product penetration. Which topicals are most often being used and at what point before/after are you using them? Also what depth dermarollers are being used for this purpose?

I would think this could be very effective if safely implemented, but if not could cause more harm than good.


As you mentioned yourself, there is not a lot of "protocol" or even research available. However, there was recently some research done on penetration enhancement by various needle lengths and models (3Line vs. regular roller).
I posted some highlights on the CIT thread I already linked you to, but here is the complete article.

http://www.dermaroller.co.nz/research/derma-eng.pdf

I think that penetration enhancement by dermarolling is not for everyone...I personally experience significant inflammation from needles as short as the .15mm found on the Leaf & Rusher TX Roller. I am red for 24-26 hours due to the rolling and enhanced active penetration...needless to say, that is not a viable option for me 2-3 times a week (the recommended usage for needles that short). I think ongoing inflammation is damaging, and people should consider ultrasound if they react in a similar manner to me.

However, others use .5mm needles daily for penetration purposes with no issues. It is basically one of those YMMV kinds of things.

As far as topicals being used, people here have tried rolling various products into their skin. Hopefully they will weigh in and share what they do.

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:22 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Bethany and Rileygirl... After hearing what poor Bethany is going through with the extreme redness - I think I'll try to be patient and wait to do anything other than the Nu Derm. (I'm definitely prone to PIH - so don't want to take any unnecessary risks...)

I think your suggestion of the six week Nu Derm only trial is a good one. Even though it's so hard to be patient... I'm so glad I have "veterans" like you to ask all these questions of! Sorry if I'm being a pest!

bethany wrote:
You can entertain yourself rolling non-Nu Derm areas until then.


Hmmmm, wondering if hubby will notice if I start entertaining myself by dermarolling him??? Laughing
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:25 pm      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
Hmmmm, wondering if hubby will notice if I start entertaining myself by dermarolling him??? Laughing


Trust me....he WILL notice, and you will most likely be punished in some manner!

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:30 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Trust me....he WILL notice, and you will most likely be punished in some manner!


Dang, probably very, very true... He already thinks I'm kind of a nutter for poking myself in the face with needles on a rolling pin - so I don't think he'd be keen on me poking him! But, maybe I can turn this to my advantage... "Take me shopping *now* - or I'll dermaroller you!"?? Very Happy
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:58 pm      Reply with quote
Emmany,

You were asking about dermarolling results in a previous post, so I looked up some info that I had previously shared with other EDS members.

Rolling History:
I did a series of 6 rolls (1 per week) starting in mid-May with a 1.0mm Dr. Roller and 1.0mm 3Line Dr. Roller and then took a 90 day break. I now only roll once every 4-6 weeks, and will not be taking future breaks.

Topicals:
The only topicals I use when rolling are RA (face and arms only), and 302 A Boost and Lightening Drops on all areas for the next 3 days in order to replicate Dr. Fernandes' professional protocol (though he actually uses the Environ EssentiA Oil). I have used CPs, but don't think they are essential at all.

I was also using 302 topicals on a daily basis, along with RA 1x a week....including when I was on my 90 day rolling break.

Dermarolling Results:
After a total of 4 months, I saw:
- 90% of my crowsfeet eliminated
- 75% of my glabellas (11's) eliminated
- 30% of my forehead lines eliminated and the rest softened
- 97% of my milia eliminated
- 80% of a neck/collarbone line eliminated
- 80% of the pigmentation eliminated from my hands

I had a VISIA Complexion Analysis done on 9/18 that showed the following, and I will be using this as a baseline for future improvement.
- Fine lines and wrinkles - 99%
- Hyperpigmentation (age/dark spots) - 73%
- Enlarged pores - 97%
- Texture (skin smoothness) - 85%
- Sun damage (UV spots) - 105 counted in the designated area



I have been very fortunate to see results of this magnitude so quickly, especially since I roll way less than most people. And I am definitely expecting/hoping to see more improvement over the next 12 months.

However, though many people do not see these results unless they roll more frequently, and for a longer time period. However, 6 to 7 months seems to be the point where most people start seeing results.

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emmany
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Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:35 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Emmany,

You were asking about dermarolling results in a previous post, so I looked up some info that I had previously shared with other EDS members.

Rolling History:
I did a series of 6 rolls (1 per week) starting in mid-May with a 1.0mm Dr. Roller and 1.0mm 3Line Dr. Roller and then took a 90 day break. I now only roll once every 4-6 weeks, and will not be taking future breaks.

Topicals:
The only topicals I use when rolling are RA (face and arms only), and 302 A Boost and Lightening Drops on all areas for the next 3 days in order to replicate Dr. Fernandes' professional protocol (though he actually uses the Environ EssentiA Oil). I have used CPs, but don't think they are essential at all.

I was also using 302 topicals on a daily basis, along with RA 1x a week....including when I was on my 90 day rolling break.

Dermarolling Results:
After a total of 4 months, I saw:
- 90% of my crowsfeet eliminated
- 75% of my glabellas (11's) eliminated
- 30% of my forehead lines eliminated and the rest softened
- 97% of my milia eliminated
- 80% of a neck/collarbone line eliminated
- 80% of the pigmentation eliminated from my hands

I had a VISIA Complexion Analysis done on 9/18 that showed the following, and I will be using this as a baseline for future improvement.
- Fine lines and wrinkles - 99%
- Hyperpigmentation (age/dark spots) - 73%
- Enlarged pores - 97%
- Texture (skin smoothness) - 85%
- Sun damage (UV spots) - 105 counted in the designated area



I have been very fortunate to see results of this magnitude so quickly, especially since I roll way less than most people. And I am definitely expecting/hoping to see more improvement over the next 12 months.

However, though many people do not see these results unless they roll more frequently, and for a longer time period. However, 6 to 7 months seems to be the point where most people start seeing results.
Very impressive. I think what it boils down to is that everyone's skin is different, and there are some who are fortunate in that their body produces a greater ammount of collagen when responding to injury. I may try one of these out for myself Laughing
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Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:57 pm      Reply with quote
emmany wrote:
Very impressive. I think what it boils down to is that everyone's skin is different, and there are some who are fortunate in that their body produces a greater ammount of collagen when responding to injury. I may try one of these out for myself Laughing


I saw my derm today, and she confirmed that my lines have definitely been eliminated, and that Botox is completely unnecessary for me, with the exception of my forehead. However, I declined the Botox, because it will smooth out the lines, and I need to see them in order to do target treatments with my 3Line roller!!

If you decide to try out rolling, be sure to check out the Discounted Dermarollers thread (there are multiple suppliers), as well as some numbing cream (or lots of ice) depending on the length of needles that you purchase..

Let us know if you need any recommendations on rolling protcols, topicals, etc....there is more to rolling than just becoming a human pin cushion if you want to maximize the results and collagen development.

Discounted Dermarollers for EDS members
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392

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Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:51 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
emmany wrote:
Very impressive. I think what it boils down to is that everyone's skin is different, and there are some who are fortunate in that their body produces a greater ammount of collagen when responding to injury. I may try one of these out for myself Laughing


I saw my derm today, and she confirmed that my lines have definitely been eliminated, and that Botox is completely unnecessary for me, with the exception of my forehead. However, I declined the Botox, because it will smooth out the lines, and I need to see them in order to do target treatments with my 3Line roller!!

If you decide to try out rolling, be sure to check out the Discounted Dermarollers thread (there are multiple suppliers), as well as some numbing cream (or lots of ice) depending on the length of needles that you purchase..

Let us know if you need any recommendations on rolling protcols, topicals, etc....there is more to rolling than just becoming a human pin cushion if you want to maximize the results and collagen development.

Discounted Dermarollers for EDS members
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392


I'm still waiting for some spare cash in order to get hold of some dermarollers, but your results sound amazing, bethany. Although there's no guarantee that it will work so well for me, it definitely sounds worth a try.

Hope you don't mind me asking you loads of stupid questions when I do start rolling! Embarassed Wink
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:53 am      Reply with quote
Hi, everybody! I really want to try rolling for acne scars, but I've done enough reading to get really confused. I've figured out that I need to get the 1.5 for the scars, but beyond that, I'm lost. What's the best brand & where is the best place to purchase it? I know I need to take Vit C, but what topical products do I need and where's the best place to purchase them? I also read somewhere that I should use certain topicals for something like three weeks before rolling. Is that right? Oh, and is the 1.5 too much to start out with for someone who has never rolled? Help! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:02 am      Reply with quote
majorb wrote:
Hope you don't mind me asking you loads of stupid questions when I do start rolling! Embarassed Wink


Of course not...You know where to find me!! Very Happy

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Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:26 am      Reply with quote
bunnyhop wrote:
Hi, everybody! I really want to try rolling for acne scars, but I've done enough reading to get really confused. I've figured out that I need to get the 1.5 for the scars, but beyond that, I'm lost. What's the best brand & where is the best place to purchase it? I know I need to take Vit C, but what topical products do I need and where's the best place to purchase them? I also read somewhere that I should use certain topicals for something like three weeks before rolling. Is that right? Oh, and is the 1.5 too much to start out with for someone who has never rolled? Help! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Bunny, welcome to EDS. This is great place if you are looking to educate yourself on all of the various options available to you.

Regarding dermarolling...if you read the appropriate threads, you will find that:

- There are multiple roller manufacturers available, but most EDS members agree that Dr. Rollers are very high quality and EDS members get a discount. They are also the only brand I will use due to the cross-linked needle pattern which ensures deeper penetration.

Discounted Rollers for EDS Members
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392

- Scarring requires longer needles in order to break up scar tissue. 1.5mm is a good length to start with in this instance...you can go with a regular roller or a 3Line is you need access to tighter areas like next to your nose, etc.

- Skin requires Vit A and Vit C on an ONGOING basis to rejuvenate...most people here use Retin A for the Vit A. Some people use the ascorbic acid form of Vit C on a regular basis and right after a roll, though the pros do not recommend using AS on open wounds and use an oil soluble form instead. Check out the Skincare and Makeup forum for recommendations on manufacturers, etc. There is a ton of info available if you use the Search function at the top of every forum page.

Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling

Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/2004/environ1mmNeedling1.pdf

- Instructions on how to DO a roll are detailed here:

Environ stunned the world...
Some results pics and detailed directions on how to do a roll, including frequency of usage for the .2mm Environ home care roller:
http://www.beautymagonline.com/pages/environ_rollcit.htm

- If you want OPTIMAL results, do your research and TAKE NOTES if you can't remember everything. I have read each of the articles in the link below at least 5 times (and some more than that!)

CIT/Dermarolling Articles and Presentations
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

- I realize that reading the HUGE Dermarolling support thread is overwhelming, and contains contradictory info as we all went through our individual learning process. However, you really need to take the time to read the last 20 pages just to fully understand what you are getting into.

If you have specific questions after doing your research, just let us know!

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Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:58 pm      Reply with quote
So i have been doing the dermarolling for quite some time taking 4 wk intervals to keep the process going. Well, I had a facial and recieved some new hyperpigmintation around my eyes from the milia that I had before dermarolling. I got so frustrated that I went in to get a PCA peel to help with my acno, that seemed to have flaired up and my hyperpigmintation.

I had it last night, have not peeled yet but can tell a difference already. My skin is very tight though. I think that I am going to convert to the PCA products before I get into the Obaji stuff. I am really getting desperate here.

My GOAL: I will never have to wear a makeup base ever again!

My best friend owns a med spa here in MA. She and I are doing this together, so I hope that the PCA will even out my skin and then I can use my Dermaroller on my childhood chicken pox scars to give myself the perfect skin. I have not convinced her yet to do the dermarolling. I even pulled down my pants and showed her my a$$ last night. I have lost almost all cellulite from having my boyfriend roll me! Bad Grin

The chick that gave me the facial said that I am doing too much to my skin and to chill out. Not to put Cetaphyl as my facial lotion and to stop using my organic jojoba oil (*wipes a tear from my tight cheek).

So I will keep all of you posted on my relentless pursuit to perfection at the beautiful age of 27 on this thread.

After all, this is my favorite of them all. We all seem to understand each other and our crazy obsession of self torture for the sake of beauty!

"Beauty is pain" - Frency, Greased Lighting Cool
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:01 pm      Reply with quote
Miss Tina wrote:
So I have lost almost all cellulite from having my boyfriend roll me! Bad Grin



That is fantastic! For how long did you roll your butt and at what frequency? What size needles?

I'd love to have that same result on my thighs!

kiley
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:59 pm      Reply with quote
Miss Tina wrote:
The chick that gave me the facial said that I am doing too much to my skin and to chill out. Not to put Cetaphyl as my facial lotion and to stop using my organic jojoba oil (*wipes a tear from my tight cheek).



If you overdo it, you will get post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation. Poor Chinachatters overdid the rolling and the peels, and ended up with some significant pigmentation on her forehead and severly dehydrated skin.

Skin can only remodel so quickly...just be sure to NOT overdo things repeatedly in the same area. If you feel that you need to be doing something to your skin, then pick another part of your body and rotate them.

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