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Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:16 pm  |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
Is there anyone with diabetes or immune challenges that has dermarolled?
I am a diabetic and was speaking with a friend who is also in her late 30's and wants to give this a try, but from memory, I am not sure whether its the most sensible thing for her as diabetics etc have a weakened immune system (and as a result their cuts often take longer to heal) so am guessing that dermarolling might not be the best thing for her, but figured its worth checking in with you ladies to see if anyone has these health challenges and has been dermarolling? |
Sean,
I have read in a number of places that rolling is not recommended if you are diabetic. Nova Clinc, which Toby mentioned above says this on their website:
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You cannot use the derma/skin roller if:
You have a history of poor wound healing, blood problems, collagen diseases, have open cuts, wounds, sun-burnt skin, active herpes outbreaks, pustule acne lesions, or any other acute infection or inflammation of the skin, are pregnant or lactating, are prone to keloid scarring or have diabetes. If you are in any doubt about the condition of your skin do not hesitate to consult your MD. Always keep the Derma Roller stored out of the reach of children.
http://www.dermarollers.com/besafe.html |
However, if you want to do some additional checking with some of the experts who do this regularly, here is some contact info (I pulled it from an old post). They may have some insight as to what length needles may be best tolerated, etc.
Of the ones below, I would suggest contacting Dr. Liebl on his blog...he has answered my questions in the past within a couple of days. But be forewarned that he does not think that anyone should be doing their own rolling, and will tell you to see a professional. So I guess the question to him should be whether or not you are a candidate to be dermarolled. 
| bethany wrote: |
I would suggest that you contact Dr. Des Fernandes or Dr. Horst Liebl (the inventors), or perhaps Dr. Andres Bustillo in Miami who is supposed to be publishing a study on his usage of the Environ roller within his practice.
Dr. Liebl can be most easily reached via his blog:
http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/
Dr. Bustillo's contact info is at his website:
http://www.drbustillo.com/
Dr. Des Fernandes' contact info can also be found at his personal website:
http://www.drdes.co.za/
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 am |
| Mishey wrote: |
| Hi Toby. How have your results been so far after rolling for a year? |
My face is very much improved but I am doing several things and it is difficult to pin down just what is making the big difference. I have done Flexeffects facial exercises, skinactives, prolight LED, and derma rolling. So........it isn't easy to report the thing that is making everything happen. Since I don't have pigmentation issues and have the dreaded sag of the 50's, I would say the facial exercises have made the major difference. But all the things I am doing are addressing ageing from different angles.
Toby |
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female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:05 pm |
Bethany, thank for the warning,i will be careful because i already have one spot of hyperpigmentation from using a foot stone because i couldn't afford tca.
its really expensive & i know we can put it together much cheaper separately but i thought it was nice to see a company have the same idea as we do,
it comes with tca peel, derma roller & vitamin C
http://www.ezpeel.net/category_s/31.htm |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:10 pm |
Bethany
i read you had gotten rid of one forehead line with the roller. how often did you use the roller to get rid of it and what creams or lotions helped. i have a vertical forehead line i call "worry lines" because I'm a worrier lol. & ive used the roller 3 times every 6 weeks and its still there. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:49 pm |
| Thanks Bethany, it mirrors my thinking really, but I figured it worth checking. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:35 pm |
| ace243 wrote: |
Bethany, thank for the warning,i will be careful because i already have one spot of hyperpigmentation from using a foot stone because i couldn't afford tca.
its really expensive & i know we can put it together much cheaper separately but i thought it was nice to see a company have the same idea as we do,
it comes with tca peel, derma roller & vitamin C
http://www.ezpeel.net/category_s/31.htm |
I think we are going to see companies come up with all kinds of "options" to use with a dermaroller. And the negatove results will probably get them yanked off the US market. 
I did note that while they sell the TCA and the roller, here they suggest ONLY using Vit C:
| Quote: |
We suggest to also buy with the dermaroller for best results:
ANAIS vitamin C is the only topical that is (and should be applied) following dermaroller.
Also, this should be left on to penetrate into the skin. It is best to stay out of any polluted environments during this time also (such as outside in heavy traffic areas or around smoke).
Dont be tempted to wash the topical off the skin too soon. Best if left after treatment and overnight.
Note: I am talking of professionally done dermaroller, not home dermaroller..but although home dermarolling is not as deep I am sure vitamin c serum would still be the recommended topical.
http://www.ezpeel.net/DERMA_ROLLING_SYSTEM_p/derma%20rolling%20system%20kit.htm
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:42 pm |
| ace243 wrote: |
Bethany
i read you had gotten rid of one forehead line with the roller. how often did you use the roller to get rid of it and what creams or lotions helped. i have a vertical forehead line i call "worry lines" because I'm a worrier lol. & ive used the roller 3 times every 6 weeks and its still there. |
Ace, it took 4 months before I saw any improvement (and most people take 7 months)...keep in mind that collagen has to grow and develop, so results will not show up that quickly. I really recommend reading the articles on how the process works:
CIT/Dermarolling Articles and Presentations
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860
Also, make sure that you are doing an intense roll in multiple directions...if you are not needling enough each time, you will not trigger the wound healing cascade.
BTW, while I have had a significant reduction in my vertical lines between my brows, my forehead has been way less than responsive. After doing some reading on why we actually see wrinkles, I am adding facial exercise into the mix to help smooth out the underlying muscles. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:22 am |
| ace243 wrote: |
Bethany, thank for the warning,i will be careful because i already have one spot of hyperpigmentation from using a foot stone because i couldn't afford tca.
its really expensive & i know we can put it together much cheaper separately but i thought it was nice to see a company have the same idea as we do,
it comes with tca peel, derma roller & vitamin C
http://www.ezpeel.net/category_s/31.htm |
I had a look at the Ezpeel website. They are selling the TCA or the Dermaroller & Vitamin C - they're not sold all together. Do not use TCA with a Dermaroller - it will be too much for the skin and cause damage. Either do the peels OR use the Dermaroller. BTWwww.makeupartistschoice.com also sell TCA, Lactic Acid etc. You can buy various percentages and they are very economical because they last a long time. |
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:43 am |
Hi 'all.
I was just perusing the dermaroller.de website (looking for anything new ) and see some new info (at least, new for me) in some sections that I'd like to share. Perhaps this has already been posted, but repeating it can't hurt.
Their recommendations for intervals between medical rolls (1.5mm) are 6 weeks with having 1-3 sessions and annual rolls after that. These are snippets of what they have posted on the website:
FOR WRINKLES: According to the individual skin condition, 1 to 3 procedures, separated by 4 to 6 weeks, are sufficient to resurface the skin. As aging continues, we recommend one refresher-CIT every year. Between the CITs and after the last one, you can support the results of the CIT by using the Home Care Dermaroller in combination with high-end peptide serums.
Advice: As sunrays trigger free radicals - the worst enemies of your skin cells - avoid direct sun exposure!!!
FOR CIT: Depending on your skin condition, and to achieve maximum possible results, we recommend an initial treatment cycle of 2 to 3 treatments. As the new collagen formation needs time to mature, we propose an interval of 6 weeks before the next CIT is commenced. As your skin continues to age an annual refresher CIT should be considered
FOR ACNE SCARS: Treatments should be separated by at least 6 weeks or more. The COLLAGEN-INDUCTION-THERAPY by MICRONEEDLING will in general result in an improvement of 70 – 80%. Anything else above should be considered as a bonus. As collagen fibers and new capillaries need time to mature, we strongly recommend you to not become impatient
FOR HYPERPIGMENTATION: Hyper pigmentation is a melanin concentration, often associated with scars, acne scars and other skin lesions. They are more profound on darker skin.
The dark spots in general respond very well to a Collagen Induction Therapy (CIT)([i]ie - following guidelines for CIT on intervals). Usually 1 to 2 procedures are required to bring your skin back to a normal and even pigmentation. The spots disappear and do not return - unless the skin is mistreated.
I was thinking I'd do another roll around 3 wks or so, but since I've read this, I will wait the 6 wks (just using it for the CIT mainly). The last roll I did was definitely a medical grade roll. I will finally also buy the smaller .15 roller now. Christmas present to myself  |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:31 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
Hi 'all.
I was just perusing the dermaroller.de website (looking for anything new ) and see some new info (at least, new for me) in some sections that I'd like to share. Perhaps this has already been posted, but repeating it can't hurt.
Their recommendations for intervals between medical rolls (1.5mm) are 6 weeks with having 1-3 sessions and annual rolls after that. |
Foxe, this was posted earlier in the thread when we were debating how frequently we should be rolling (some people were using long needles daily, some weekly, etc.). But it definately bears repeating.
You should also check out his blog...there are some good question and answers in there. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:37 pm |
| Dazed wrote: |
| Bethany, I have been rolling weekly for about 12 weeks. I should probably take some time off in preparation for the Re:pair. I have heard varying opinions on the use of the roller. What do you think is the best routine? |
Dazed,
I am not a proponent of rolling weekly with a 1.5mm....I think that it causes way too much ongoing inflammation, and that is not good for your skin at all. I personally roll every 4-6 weeks.
I also think that people are rolling frequently because they don't really experience any discomfort and down time....which leads me to believe that they are not rolling intensely enough. You need to needle a BUNCH of holes and penetrate the dermis in order to trigger the wound healing cascade. More intense rolls are what will get you collagen development...not frequent, less intense rolls.
Here is a pic of me during my last roll..as you can see, I am penetrating the dermis (as evidenced by the blood). I am also red for days, which means that my rolls are pretty intense.
| bethany wrote: |
this is a pic of AFTER I have cleaned the majority of the blood off so that I can continue the roll...
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Here are the results I have had by using this rolling protocol:
| bethany wrote: |
Rolling History:
I did a series of 6 rolls (1 per week) starting in mid-May with a 1.0mm Dr. Roller and 1.0mm 3Line Dr. Roller and then took a 90 day break. I now only roll once every 4-6 weeks, and will not be taking future breaks.
Topicals:
The only topicals I use when rolling are RA (face and arms only), and 302 A Boost and Lightening Drops on all areas for the next 3 days in order to replicate Dr. Fernandes' professional protocol (though he actually uses the Environ EssentiA Oil). I have used CPs, but don't think they are essential at all.
I was also using 302 topicals on a daily basis, along with RA 1x a week....including when I was on my 90 day rolling break.
Dermarolling Results as of September '08:
After a total of 4 months, I saw:
- 90% of my crowsfeet eliminated
- 75% of my glabellas (11's) eliminated
- 30% of my forehead lines eliminated and the rest softened
- 97% of my milia eliminated
- 80% of a neck/collarbone line eliminated
- 80% of the pigmentation eliminated from my hands
I had a VISIA Complexion Analysis done on 9/18/08 that showed the following, and I will be using this as a baseline for future improvement.
- Fine lines and wrinkles - 99%
- Hyperpigmentation (age/dark spots) - 73%
- Enlarged pores - 97%
- Texture (skin smoothness) - 85%
- Sun damage (UV spots) - 105 counted in the designated area
I have been very fortunate to see results of this magnitude so quickly, especially since I roll way less than most people. And I am definitely expecting/hoping to see more improvement over the next 12 months.
However, though many people do not see these results unless they roll more frequently, and for a longer time period. However, 6 to 7 months seems to be the point where most people start seeing results. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:18 am |
| Bethany, I thought I rolled pretty hard with my 1.5mm roller, but I don't draw blood like that. I apply Supr Cop 2X before and after my rolls. This burns for a while but after about 1/2 hour I apply Emu Oil to soothe. |
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"Imagination frames events unknown, In wild fantastic shapes of hideous ruin, And what it fears, creates." Hannah More |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:46 am |
| Dazed wrote: |
| Bethany, I thought I rolled pretty hard with my 1.5mm roller, but I don't draw blood like that. I apply Supr Cop 2X before and after my rolls. This burns for a while but after about 1/2 hour I apply Emu Oil to soothe. |
I also try to roll reasonably hard and I only ever end up with a few spots of blood.
Bethany, how many times do you roll over the one spot. I do five passes in a star shape - but from your pic some patches look as though they've been rolled much more than that. Your picture really is quite terrifying - I'm not sure whether to congratulate you or to accuse you of having masochistic tendencies! |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:55 am |
Wow Bethany, I have emailed Jack to order my dermaroller but after looking at your photos, don't know if I am as brave as you  I will now go back and re-read threads for numbing cream, as I have decided I defo need this now |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:01 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I also try to roll reasonably hard and I only ever end up with a few spots of blood. |
I am the same way. I do not have anywhere near the blood that Bethany has, but I have more blood spots since using the Retin A regularly. I wonder if the blood Bethany experiences is due in part to the Retin A, and the ZO Radical Night Repair she is using on a regular basis? |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:44 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I also try to roll reasonably hard and I only ever end up with a few spots of blood. |
I am the same way. I do not have anywhere near the blood that Bethany has, but I have more blood spots since using the Retin A regularly. I wonder if the blood Bethany experiences is due in part to the Retin A, and the ZO Radical Night Repair she is using on a regular basis? |
I think Beth just rolls with all her might, unlike the rest of you wusses...
Easy for me to say, as I sit here with nothing scarier than my Derma Wand ...  |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:02 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I think Beth just rolls with all her might, unlike the rest of you wusses...
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That is most definitely a possibility, Kassy! Bethany is a brave soul! |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:18 pm |
| I'm about to read through all the bajillion pages here to see if I can find anything on dermarolling the scalp. Since I'm already in trouble for reading all the Baby Quasar posts when I should be making dinner would someone familiar with all these posts please let me know if I'm likely to find anything buried in there? Thanks so much. (I have baby fine hair that is falling due to use of DHEA...) |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:40 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Bethany, how many times do you roll over the one spot. I do five passes in a star shape - but from your pic some patches look as though they've been rolled much more than that. Your picture really is quite terrifying - I'm not sure whether to congratulate you or to accuse you of having masochistic tendencies! |
I do 3-5 passes in 4 directions (3-5 in EACH of the directions).
And as Rileygirl mentioned, I didn't start bleeding like crazy until I started using a retinol product or Retin A every night. Prior to that I used Retin A 2x a week and still had bleeding, but not to this degree.
Vit A increases your vascular network (meaning new blood vessels grow throughout your skin), which ultimately brings more nutrients to your skin....the better blood flow you have, the healthier your skin will be. And the more likely you are to trigger the wound healing cascade when you roll.
Of course certain things can restrict blood flow, like smoking and probably various medications. But if you don't have good facial circulation, you might want to add in facial massage each day...I now do the FlexEffect massage each day after doing my Ageless facial exercises. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:53 pm |
| Antonia wrote: |
| I'm about to read through all the bajillion pages here to see if I can find anything on dermarolling the scalp. Since I'm already in trouble for reading all the Baby Quasar posts when I should be making dinner would someone familiar with all these posts please let me know if I'm likely to find anything buried in there? Thanks so much. (I have baby fine hair that is falling due to use of DHEA...) |
I can't remember anyone here rolling for hair-loss. However, here is some information on Dermarolling for this condition:
http://www.clearskincare.com.au/hair_regrowth_restoration_stop_hair_loss_now.html |
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:15 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Antonia wrote: |
| I'm about to read through all the bajillion pages here to see if I can find anything on dermarolling the scalp. Since I'm already in trouble for reading all the Baby Quasar posts when I should be making dinner would someone familiar with all these posts please let me know if I'm likely to find anything buried in there? Thanks so much. (I have baby fine hair that is falling due to use of DHEA...) |
I can't remember anyone here rolling for hair-loss. However, here is some information on Dermarolling for this condition:
http://www.clearskincare.com.au/hair_regrowth_restoration_stop_hair_loss_now.html |
That is a VERY interesting site, Keliu, thanks for sharing it with us!
I'm skeptical of this part, though:
The Clearskincare Skin Roller range was designed by Dr McCaffery to maximise results for improving the appearance of indented scars, lines, wrinkles and stretchmarks as well as thinning hair whilst minimising downtime and pain, hence the selected needle lengths of the homecare rollers of 0.75mm (Skin & Scalp Roller) and 0.3mm (Face Roller). Other rollers available were designed by engineers who have no medical background, or understanding of scar, anti ageing skin treatment or any understanding of human anatomy, hence their ineffective generic choices of needle lengths (0.25mm, 0.5mm, 1mm, 1.5mm, 2.5mm etc).
Didn't the original inventors (Drs Fernandez and Liebl, IIRC) use both 1mm and 1.5mm with great success in their trials? |
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:10 am |
Low - Dr.Fernandes designed the Environ roller, and recommends both the 1.0mm and the 3.0mm for medical rolls. He definitely has a very well known medical background, so I am not sure how she can say that. She is also the one that recommends "macerating" your flesh when you roll plus they are actually NOT very nice if you dare ask them any questions by email...defensive is the word I would use, and that seems to come through in their site verbiage.
Additionally, I have also heard that the Clearskin rollers are poor quality.
Antonia - There is not much at all on the thread regarding rolling for hairloss. I do know that you have to roll in one direction (or your hair will get tangled), and that a ton of guys are using them before applying Rogaine on some hairloss forums. You might have more luck there. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:58 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| Additionally, I have also heard that the Clearskin rollers are poor quality. |
I purchased the 1mm Clearskin roller some time ago - it is NOT as good as the Dr. Roller IMO. |
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