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DermaRoller

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Lowbrowscientist
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:34 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
bethany wrote:
Additionally, I have also heard that the Clearskin rollers are poor quality.


I purchased the 1mm Clearskin roller some time ago - it is NOT as good as the Dr. Roller IMO.


Yes, they did look a bit more fragile in structure than the Dr. Rollers.

Reading that article inspired me to drag out my .25mm last night. Though I've only used them once each to spot treat, I think using the longer 1mm and 1.5mm 3-line rollers has mentally toughened me up somewhat, because I did a VERY thorough roll last night and today's post-roll results are more profound than they've ever been with the shorter needles.

Since the .25mm needles are not long enough to induce collagen production, is the inflammation still a necessary evil? Or, unlike the CIT rolls, can I hit the anti-inflammatories right away? Perhaps the inflammation plays a role in thickening the epidermis...?

I used an anti-inflammatory oil blend right away last night, regardless. This morning, my face still FEELS quite sore (this is a big difference from past rolls) and looks pink, with some mild inflammation that no one but myself would notice. Definitely something I'll need to limit to once every two or three weeks, but I'm really lemming thicker facial skin (did I use the word "lemming" correctly? Smile )
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:41 am      Reply with quote
OK I read through all of these posts -THANK YOU LADIES - bought my derma roller and began rolling last week. So far so good (well apart from the pain and the blood obviously!). I do however have a question - is there a chance that this could INCREASE hair growth on my face since it can be used as a hair loss treatment I am starting to wonder? Will that lovely moustache I had electrolysed away 20 years ago return?
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:15 am      Reply with quote
I can't remember anyone here rolling for hair-loss. However, here is some information on Dermarolling for this condition:

http://www.clearskincare.com.au/hair_regrowth_restoration_stop_hair_loss_now.html


Interesting site indeed. I wonder what the inventor of CPs (Dr Pickart of Skin Biology) would say about the '2nd generation copper peptides' these ppl offer. They even mention a study citing Dr. Pickart's name in it. I believe he holds the patents on the CPs and is not liscensing them yet.

Antonia, I was actually going to suggest Skin Bio's Folligen product line to try for your hair loss. The Folligen line (when used in conjunction w/ Minoxidil) works pretty good for hair restoration. But, when I saw the copies offered on the above website, I knew I needed to bring it up.

The clearskincare website actually looks like a copycat line to me. When that type of thing starts happening, it usually signifies a compliment of sorts. The original products do work, so others like to jump in on the action.

IMO - I would go w/ the original products. Dr. Roller (tho not the original) has been discussed here in detail and everyone likes it. Folligen hair care has been around a long time and has studies that show it works. It's not too expensive and worth a try. Skin Bio's website is: http://www.reverseskinaging.com/

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Antonia
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:16 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Keliu, Bethany and Foxe. I have often considered the Folligen since I use Super Cop x2 on my face every day, but the whole procedure seems very long...much too long for me I'm afraid (after the 2 hours it already takes me to get ready in the morning and 1.5 hours again at night,Smile The dermarolling sounded "quick and dirty." I use 5% minox. My mother and aunt were bald and two of my three sisters are bald. Two of us have full heads of hair that are VERY sensitive to hormones. I cannot take estradiol (e.g. in Bi-est or Tri-est as it makes my hair fall in handfulls. The same happened on the Pill when I was younger). But I digress! Thanks for the site ref. I'll get reading.
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:01 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:

The clearskincare website actually looks like a copycat line to me. When that type of thing starts happening, it usually signifies a compliment of sorts. The original products do work, so others like to jump in on the action.


These products do contain the real CPs in them. I asked Dr P and he said they buy their CPs from Skin Bio.

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:49 pm      Reply with quote
The post acne treatment of Leaf and Rusher is really good. Although the first 2 days it will cause pain, days after it heals the skin. I love it.
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:17 pm      Reply with quote
Antonia wrote:
My mother and aunt were bald and two of my three sisters are bald.


So do you my mind asking why this is - do they have Alopecia or some other medical condition?
Keliu
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:32 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Since the .25mm needles are not long enough to induce collagen production, is the inflammation still a necessary evil? Or, unlike the CIT rolls, can I hit the anti-inflammatories right away? Perhaps the inflammation plays a role in thickening the epidermis...?

I used an anti-inflammatory oil blend right away last night, regardless.


This is a good question - one that Bethany will probably have the correct answer for. However, my theory is that if you poke holes in the skin, your skin will automatically heal them up - inflammation or not. So the question is, will there be a visible improvement to the skin without inflammation? At the moment, I'm using my .5mm about three times a week for product penetration. Then I do an AALS treatment, apply Retin-A and then emu oil. So as you can see, I'm also doing anti-inflammatory things but I do believe that my skin is continuing to improve.
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:19 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Fellow Rollergirls (and guys)!

Just checking in on my dermarolling adventures... Took a few days off from Obagi (because of the holiday and not wanting to look like a lizard). Stopped Saturday night - so had Sunday through Thursday off. I didn't actually stop peeling until Wednesday! Started up on the Obagi on Friday am.

Since everything had calmed down - and since DH is conveniently now out of town on business - I decided what better time to roll the heck out of my face. Tried the tridocaine again. (Again, a complete waste of time. I think they might have compounded a foot cream by mistake or something - it does absolutely squat for numbing.) So, washed that off and switched to Emla. Waited 20 minutes - and then proceeded to roll. Yegads! Funny how the fleshy parts of the face get nice and numb - and those not-so-fleshy parts (over the lips, forehead, etc...) still hurt like the dickens. The numb parts got so numb - I was a bit scared I was going to overdo it - because I couldn't feel *anything*.

The results of my aggressively roll with the 1.5:

The bad news is that I can now say that I look like a lobster - that laid out in the mid-day sun - in Bora Bora - for eight hours - with SPF 2.

The good news is that, this time, I have what looks to be minimal track marks. I think this might be because this time I took Bethany's excellent advice and hopped in the shower immediately after - and spent a long, long, long time sluicing my face with warm water.

Will let you know what happens in the next few days - after all the swelling and pinkness go away. (Unless my face falls off in the meantime! Wink )
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:18 am      Reply with quote
Hi Taobunny,

I too completed an agressive roll (12 days ago.) It took a full 7 days for my skin to return to normal. Two hours post roll, I applied a thick layer of Retin-A. As you can guess I had a fair amount of peeling, especially around my mouth.

My experience with EMLA is similar to yours. The area above the upper lip is the most sensitive and therefore difficult to roll aggressively. Next time I may try applying a thicker layer of EMLA.

I rolled my neck and chest as well. My neck looked terrible until day 9 (neck bands were red/swollen and had little scabs.)

I had minimal bleeding...even less than the first time I rolled with the 1.5 roller w/o the use of EMLA. I'm not sure why....never smoked, use retin-a 2X weekly etc.
Lowbrowscientist
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:57 pm      Reply with quote
I just received my Super T anesthetic, purchased from a tattoo supply shop, and am disappointed to say that it requires an occlusive dressing and 30 - 90 minutes to fully activate, just like EMLA.

In other words, I wasted my time and money with this stuff. Mad

Oh well, at least now I'm stocked for anesthetic and I know to just stick with emla next time.
taobunny
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:16 pm      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
... The good news is that, this time, I have what looks to be minimal track marks. I think this might be because this time I took Bethany's excellent advice and hopped in the shower immediately after - and spent a long, long, long time sluicing my face with warm water.

Will let you know what happens in the next few days - after all the swelling and pinkness go away. (Unless my face falls off in the meantime! Wink )


Ohhhhhkay - spoke too soon. So, here I was - all happy that I had what looked to be minimal trackmarks. Yeah, right. This morning, woke up to a wonderful complexion of blood blisters all over my cheeks. (I kind of look like that girl in the Wendy's fast food logo - but only not as cute...) Most of the blood blisters are this size ---> o --- But some are this size ---> O. What fun. Should make my meeting with a client tomorrow morning very interesting... I'm gonna have to wake up an hour early - just to get a head start with the heavy duty concealer...

Don't know *why* I get such a strong reaction - but it could be that I do bruise easily - so, perhaps my clotting factors aren't as high. I think next time, I'm going to do the long shower - but tepid - and then ice immediately afterwards. Guess the good news is that I know I *definitely* hit the dermis... (sigh)

Remind me again, I do this to look pretty, right??? Embarassed
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:19 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
I just received my Super T anesthetic, purchased from a tattoo supply shop, and am disappointed to say that it requires an occlusive dressing and 30 - 90 minutes to fully activate, just like EMLA.

In other words, I wasted my time and money with this stuff. Mad

Oh well, at least now I'm stocked for anesthetic and I know to just stick with emla next time.


Hi Low,

I don't know - my experience with Emla is that it only takes about 15-20 minutes - and doesn't require an occlusive dressing. Then again, I do apply it thickly (1/16" - 1/8"). Maybe see if the Super T works without a dressing - on a test spot? It would be a shame to waste your money. (Then again, I haven't tried mine yet - because I'm happy with the Emla.) I was disappointed that Super T is so expensive for such a *tiny* jar.

Best of luck!~
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:57 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Antonia wrote:
My mother and aunt were bald and two of my three sisters are bald.


So do you my mind asking why this is - do they have Alopecia or some other medical condition?


Hello Keliu...no problem with the Q at all Smile We do not have any known medical condition...it's diffuse hair loss or "female pattern baldness." I don't have it, but I was told by a dermatologist at age 21 that I would be bald by the time I was 30. My hair was falling out very heavily due to being on the Pill. I went off the Pill for other reasons, my hair grew back then, some years later, I went on it again and lost half my hair. It grew back. Since age 21, I have been using minoxidil daily. Since meno, my hair grew very much thicker and didn't fall at all. So it was determined that I (and likely my whole family) was having estradiol convert somehow to testosterone. DHEA was mentioned. Two years ago, I took DHEA capsules and PLUNK! Hair falling en masse. I ditched them and the hair grew back. Then (Grr!) six months ago I started Tri-est cream and my hair started falling again. So now I'm on straight estriol and my hair is coming back nice and thickly. (I'm still on minoxidil.) Sorry to write a book there!
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:57 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry, posted twice. I kept getting the msg. that the thread had been moved or didn't exist any more.
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:08 pm      Reply with quote
Antonia wrote:
Sorry, posted twice. I kept getting the msg. that the thread had been moved or didn't exist any more.


That seems to be a glitch with this thread - I get it every time Neutral

I hope you have some success combining the minox. with the roller. I'm not quite as hormonally sensitive as you or your family, but constant thyroid fluctuations have thinned my hair out quite a bit over the last 3 - 4 years. And the women in my family just generally tend to have thinner hair once they hit their 30's (judging by my sister's experience, at least, and by the fact that my mother has and grandmother had very thin hair as they got older). I've considered trying minoxidil, but I honestly don't know if I would be consistent with it and if it's worth the time/expense at this point. I'm glad you've had success with it, though. Keep us posted Smile

Taobunny, thanks for sharing your post-roll experience - it keeps me from panicking when I get my own scary-looking results Smile

About the Emla - I do apply it thickly, and I did try it without the saran wrap about a month ago (just a spot treatment, or I'd have never had the nerve!). It seemed to have the same numbing effect, but it also seemed to wear off faster. So, I don't think I can get away with that for a full-face roll. It took me quite awhile the other night just to do my whole face with the .25mm, I imagine it will be the same or longer with the 1.5mm. I have to make a conscious effort to be deliberate and precise or else I end up going at it too quickly and pulling/dragging on the handle.

After my next roll, I'll let everyone know how the Super T and the EMLA compare.
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:13 pm      Reply with quote
Antonia wrote:
Thanks Keliu, Bethany and Foxe. I have often considered the Folligen since I use Super Cop x2 on my face every day, but the whole procedure seems very long...much too long for me I'm afraid (after the 2 hours it already takes me to get ready in the morning and 1.5 hours again at night,Smile The dermarolling sounded "quick and dirty." I use 5% minox. My mother and aunt were bald and two of my three sisters are bald. Two of us have full heads of hair that are VERY sensitive to hormones. I cannot take estradiol (e.g. in Bi-est or Tri-est as it makes my hair fall in handfulls. The same happened on the Pill when I was younger). But I digress! Thanks for the site ref. I'll get reading.


Antonia,

Viviscal (the supplement form) and Folligen for Blondes (no need to dermaroll) are 2 things that I can recommend for hairloss....I have been dealing with it for 15+ years. Sad

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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:15 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
foxe wrote:

The clearskincare website actually looks like a copycat line to me. When that type of thing starts happening, it usually signifies a compliment of sorts. The original products do work, so others like to jump in on the action.


These products do contain the real CPs in them. I asked Dr P and he said they buy their CPs from Skin Bio.


Yes..they are a private label reseller. The doctor that runs Clearskin also wrote the dermarolling article the Skin Biology site.

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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:17 pm      Reply with quote
Jenhelen7 wrote:
OK I read through all of these posts -THANK YOU LADIES - bought my derma roller and began rolling last week. So far so good (well apart from the pain and the blood obviously!). I do however have a question - is there a chance that this could INCREASE hair growth on my face since it can be used as a hair loss treatment I am starting to wonder? Will that lovely moustache I had electrolysed away 20 years ago return?


The dermaroller is NOT a hairloss treatment...it is just a way of helping any hairloss actives penetrate. So if you don't put any Rogaine on your face after dermarolling, you will be just fine! Very Happy

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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:25 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Since the .25mm needles are not long enough to induce collagen production, is the inflammation still a necessary evil? Or, unlike the CIT rolls, can I hit the anti-inflammatories right away? Perhaps the inflammation plays a role in thickening the epidermis...?


That is an interesting question, but I am going to say that it is not critical to wait to apply anti-inflammatories with the short needles.

I only say that because I previously asked Dr. Liebl about inflammation with .15mm needles, and he stated that studies did not identify any real inflammation (he clearly has not seen you or me after a short needle roll). However, using the .15mm needles 2-3x a week does indeed thicken the epidermis (per him).

I am wondering if you might not have to needle so intensely with the .25mm since the primary goal is product penetration, instead of triggering the wound cascade through extensive "wounding." What do you think?

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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:30 pm      Reply with quote
gumgirl wrote:
I rolled my neck and chest as well. My neck looked terrible until day 9 (neck bands were red/swollen and had little scabs.)


Gum, scabs after rolling are usually a sign of either dragging the roller (it will look like a scratch), or from dried serous ooze after rolling...the long rinsing in the shower is the key to avoid that. I remember reading that in one of Dr. Fernandes' articles on post roll advice.

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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:48 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
I just received my Super T anesthetic, purchased from a tattoo supply shop, and am disappointed to say that it requires an occlusive dressing and 30 - 90 minutes to fully activate, just like EMLA.

In other words, I wasted my time and money with this stuff. Mad

Oh well, at least now I'm stocked for anesthetic and I know to just stick with emla next time.


I hated the Super T...mine was grainy, and I had a reaction to one of the non-lidocaine ingredients in it. Sad

I definitely prefer the Emla, though it still doesn't make everything as dead as I would like (I am trying the saran wrap next time).

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Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:52 pm      Reply with quote
taobunny wrote:
taobunny wrote:
... The good news is that, this time, I have what looks to be minimal track marks. I think this might be because this time I took Bethany's excellent advice and hopped in the shower immediately after - and spent a long, long, long time sluicing my face with warm water.

Will let you know what happens in the next few days - after all the swelling and pinkness go away. (Unless my face falls off in the meantime! Wink )


Ohhhhhkay - spoke too soon. So, here I was - all happy that I had what looked to be minimal trackmarks. Yeah, right. This morning, woke up to a wonderful complexion of blood blisters all over my cheeks. (I kind of look like that girl in the Wendy's fast food logo - but only not as cute...) Most of the blood blisters are this size ---> o --- But some are this size ---> O. What fun. Should make my meeting with a client tomorrow morning very interesting... I'm gonna have to wake up an hour early - just to get a head start with the heavy duty concealer...

Don't know *why* I get such a strong reaction - but it could be that I do bruise easily - so, perhaps my clotting factors aren't as high. I think next time, I'm going to do the long shower - but tepid - and then ice immediately afterwards. Guess the good news is that I know I *definitely* hit the dermis... (sigh)

Remind me again, I do this to look pretty, right??? Embarassed


Yikes!!! That does sound scary. I get bruises, but definitely not the blood blisters.

Do you think that maybe you should drop back to some shorter needles and work your way up?

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Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:16 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I only say that because I previously asked Dr. Liebl about inflammation with .15mm needles, and he stated that studies did not identify any real inflammation (he clearly has not seen you or me after a short needle roll). However, using the .15mm needles 2-3x a week does indeed thicken the epidermis (per him).


Bethany, can you point out to me where he stated that, is it on record in the Dermaroller info thread - if it isn't, don't worry about it.

Taobunny, I can't understand why you would have bloodblisters of this size. Are you sure that there is nothing wrong with your roller? Which roller are you using?
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Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:07 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Yikes!!! That does sound scary. I get bruises, but definitely not the blood blisters.

Do you think that maybe you should drop back to some shorter needles and work your way up?


Gah, if you think it *sounds* scary - you should *see* scary... LOL

I've been doing some more research and I think the "excessive" bleeding may be because I take a lot of ibuprofen, generally on a daily basis. Ibuprofen can cause bruising and thinning of the blood. (I have chronic back pain - and I take painkillers - but try to avoid that as much as I can - so do the ibuprofen thing...) Upon doing more research, I found that some suggest stopping ibuprofen two weeks before a roll. I think that I might try that before my next roll. (I've heard the two day thing - but maybe two weeks is what I need.)

The 1.5 is brand new - a Dr. Roller - this is the first time I've used it - and the needles all look good and sharp. I don't think it's a problem with the roller - or with the rolling method (I think!) so it must be that the ibuprofen is causing a bit of excess superficial bleeding.

I've also been on Renova/Retin A for years - so that may also be a factor?

In any case - I woke up this morning - and was amazed. A LOT of the little tiny blood blisters are already gone! (The big ones are still there, unfortunately) It seems that the superficial bleeding is clearing really fast - which is not what I expected. (I don't know if it's because I'm also on Obagi - which causes faster cell turnover?)

I'll keep ya'll posted. (And, great - DH comes home today - I have to pick him up at the airport... Can't wait to hear what he has to say... "What the $&(#$#4 have you done to your face this time????") Laughing
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