DermaRoller
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free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:04 am

ace243 wrote:

i was looking on ebay and found this

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lyapko-DERMAROLLER-BODY-LIFTING-ANTICELLULITE-UNIVERSAL_W0QQitemZ310118051718QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item310118051718&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A2%7C294%3A50

,it looks much wider then most rollers,im still reading but i cant seem to find the width (cus they all look much bigger in a pic lol) it says 3,5mm im thinking its supost to be a (.) but im not sure.im using the dr roller for stretch marks & i have a lot,so if thats wider it wouldnt take so long to roll. has any1 used one of these?

I would stay away from that Ebay listing.
Firstly, this is not the type of dermaroller that we are using. This is from what I can figure out, used for massage and to eleviate pain the the body.
A proper dermaroller has stainless steel surgical type needles which will actually poke tiny holes in your skin.
Also, the seller has poor feedback. Try to look for a seller who has at least 99% feedback.

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:13 am

ace,

Here's the thread for discounted rollers -

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392&start=0

Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:17 am

Hi everybody

Im new to this forum...I stumbled across it a couple of days ago and have been reading ever since. There is so much information i think my brain has gone into overdrive or meltdown!
I have never heard of the derma roller until I read about it on here and it seems from what people have said to be an essential piece of equipment. But where do you start?? Think Ill do some more reading before I purchase one.
I have considered laser surgery but just cannot warrant spending that huge amount of money for results that are variable.
Im currently 35, with freckles and medium skin tone and far too many fine lines around my eyes Sad

I hate them!!! Do you think this roller would be good for crows feet? You cant see them from a distance its really when you get too close they are visible.

just wanted to say hello to you all.

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:35 pm

Mishey wrote:

[quote="moongoddess
Hi Mishey -

can i assume that since you got good results on the thighs with the 1.5 that you pierced the skin deep enough to produce blood? I'm trying to absorb as much as i can here...

thanks!m

Hi Moongoddess.

I got some bloodspots on my thighs, but nowhere near as much as my last roll I did on myself.
I don't know why my thigh skin responded so well compared to my arms etc. It is indeed a mystery.
I did a series of 6 weekly rolls on the thighs.
I've come to believe that some of us get better results on certain body parts while others may get better results on others.
I'm now going for the aggressive but less often approach on the hands, arms, neck and chest and see where that gets me.
I'm nearly due for another round.[/quote]

Thanks so much Mishey -
m

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:49 pm

tessera wrote:

These are a couple of questions for Bethany:
I know we're supposed to replace the roller after six rolls, but how much area constitutes one roll? I'm doing a series of 1.0 rolls on the face, neck, chest and hands. To avoid having too much Tridocaine on my skin at one time, I'm doing these as separate areas, one per week, for a total of six monthly rolls on each area. Do I need to replace the roller after six weeks? (I.e. 1.face,2.neck,3.chest,4.hands,5.face,6.neck?)Or, would you count, say, hands & neck as one roll, because the area is roughly equivalent to one chest roll?

Question 2: We're supposed to use Vit. A & C as post-roll treatment, but avoid the use of retin-A and L-Ascorbic. What do you think about a DIY of squalane or jojoba, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (C), Retinyl palmitate (A) and d-alpha-tocopherol (E)?

1. I count all of those areas as one roll. Just make sure that you are very careful with your roller when you clean it since you are dividing the areas....those darn denture cleaning tablets ruined a couple of brand new rollers, so I don't use them anymore. But that is a great call on dividing up the Tridocaine over days.

2. I personally use Retin A after a roll, but NOT on my chest (which I learned the VERY hard way). However, what you are proposing sounds very similar to the 302 A Boost and C Boost which I often use immediately after a roll on my chest, and for several days after a roll. However, you do need to make VERY sure that these are not contaminated in any manner since the skin barrier has been breached by the needles.

Here are the ingredients for the 302 A Boost:

Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, retinyl palmitate, retinol, camphor, tangerine and mint extracts

And the 302 C Boost:

Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, tetrahexyldecylascorbate, lavender oil, tangerine and mint extracts

Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:34 pm

What is the difference between MTS-Dermarollers that cost 700$ and eBay dermarollers that goes for 50$?

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:12 pm

Perfectionist wrote:

What is the difference between MTS-Dermarollers that cost 700$ and eBay dermarollers that goes for 50$?

Quality (or lack there of), needle gauge, plus marketing expenditures of course. However, you can get MTS rollers for far less than that. But most of your ebay rollers are knockoffs with much thinner (and often bent or loose) needles.

However, most of us use the Dr. Roller brand because they have a cross-linked needle patter that ensures deeper penetration (the deeper the penetration, the better the results). And since home users seem to have difficulty with the penetration aspect, the needle design is even more important. Dr. Roller is the only brand I have found with this pattern, and if you check out their manufactuer's website you can see magnified pics of the much cleaner needle entry as compared to other brands.

Please read the Discounted Dermarollers link that is a couple posts above mine...it contains a lot of info on various rollers. Plus the last page has our latest discounts on Dr. Rollers.

Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:20 pm

Thanks, I personally found the MTS very professional looking, but not worth 700$.

Bethany, I've read a lot in this thread, but I have yet to see any before \ after pictures.
Have anyone posted before/afters here?

I'm mainly wanting to use it on my scars and small wrinkles and would loe to see some real results from independant non affiliated people.

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:05 am

Perfectionist wrote:

Thanks, I personally found the MTS very professional looking, but not worth 700$.

Bethany, I've read a lot in this thread, but I have yet to see any before \ after pictures.
Have anyone posted before/afters here?

I'm mainly wanting to use it on my scars and small wrinkles and would loe to see some real results from independant non affiliated people.

Keep in mind that most independent, non-affiliated people do not want their pics posted on the internet for everyone to critique, lol. But if you want to post your before pic, I'll be glad to give you an opinion on if this could help you.

Boski posted some before and after pics after using 302 Skincare and dermarolling to get rid of her acne scars...see page one of the thread below.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855

I posted an after pic, as well as VISIA results which I think are actually better than pics which depend highly on lighting, etc. And I can assure you that I am not affiliated with anyone but myself, lol.

I mentioned below what Dermarolling did for for me...what it did NOT do was tighten and eliminate my marionette lines (which Ageless If You Dare has almost eliminated since this pic was taken). And it did not do a ton for my facial pigmentation, nor did it do much my for my forehead lines (one representing of my 3 major employers Rolling Eyes

).

bethany wrote:

Here are my results, as previously posted on the Dermaroller thread. My current protocol is rolling every 3 months.

bethany wrote:

Rolling History:
I did a series of 6 rolls (1 per week) starting in mid-May with a 1.0mm Dr. Roller and 1.0mm 3Line Dr. Roller and then took a 90 day break. I now only roll once every 4-6 weeks, and will not be taking future breaks.

Topicals:
The only topicals I use when rolling are RA (face and arms only), and 302 A Boost and Lightening Drops on all areas for the next 3 days in order to replicate Dr. Fernandes' professional protocol (though he actually uses the Environ EssentiA Oil). I have used CPs, but don't think they are essential at all.

I was also using 302 topicals on a daily basis, along with RA 1x a week....including when I was on my 90 day rolling break.

Dermarolling Results:
After a total of 4 months, I saw:
- 90% of my crowsfeet eliminated
- 75% of my glabellas (11's) eliminated
- 30% of my forehead lines eliminated and the rest softened
- 97% of my milia eliminated
- 80% of a neck/collarbone line eliminated
- 80% of the pigmentation eliminated from my hands

I had a VISIA Complexion Analysis done on 9/18 that showed the following, and I will be using this as a baseline for future improvement.
- Fine lines and wrinkles - 99%
- Hyperpigmentation (age/dark spots) - 73%
- Enlarged pores - 97%
- Texture (skin smoothness) - 85%
- Sun damage (UV spots) - 105 counted in the designated area

I have been very fortunate to see results of this magnitude so quickly, especially since I roll way less than most people. And I am definitely expecting/hoping to see more improvement over the next 12 months.

However, though many people do not see these results unless they roll more frequently, and for a longer time period. However, 6 to 7 months seems to be the point where most people start seeing results.

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:11 am

Perfectionist wrote:

I'm mainly wanting to use it on my scars and small wrinkles and would loe to see some real results from independant non affiliated people.

BTW, if your acne scars are minimal, I would perhaps roll just those areas and consider the STOP for fine lines (which I just started using).

Also, to get the results I mentioned above, my rolls are infrequent, but aggressive as recommended by the pros. (many people on EDS find that they are not pressing hard enough...thus limiting their results) Here is a pic of my chest and neck during a roll using a 1.5mm...I had already cleaned up once earlier during the roll, and this was from the 2nd half.

The 2nd pic is my eye a couple of days after a roll....I usually look like crap for a full 5 days.

Needless to say, this is not for everyone, and every minute is sheer HELL for me (part of the reason I am trying the STOP!).

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:53 am

bethany wrote:

1. I count all of those areas as one roll. Just make sure that you are very careful with your roller when you clean it since you are dividing the areas....those darn denture cleaning tablets ruined a couple of brand new rollers, so I don't use them anymore. But that is a great call on dividing up the Tridocaine over days.

2. I personally use Retin A after a roll, but NOT on my chest (which I learned the VERY hard way). However, what you are proposing sounds very similar to the 302 A Boost and C Boost which I often use immediately after a roll on my chest, and for several days after a roll. However, you do need to make VERY sure that these are not contaminated in any manner since the skin barrier has been breached by the needles.

Here are the ingredients for the 302 A Boost:

Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, retinyl palmitate, retinol, camphor, tangerine and mint extracts

And the 302 C Boost:

Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, tetrahexyldecylascorbate, lavender oil, tangerine and mint extracts

That's great information Beth, thanks. I too have the sensitive chest skin - I got welts there using retin-A during my Obagi program, so I have to use a less irritating form of A in that area. I only use isopropyl alcohol to sterilize my rollers (hope that's enough!) and my DIY containers. I wonder if I should boil the bottles as well... Kassy probably knows. I'm hoping rolling will improve my crepey skin texture and fine lines, but I also want to tighten things up with STOP. (And I'm doing Ageless for the droops.) Based on your recommendation, I'm buying some Vivite today to use with Obagi for the pigmentation issues. I feel like you're Gretel, and I'm following your breadcrumbs through the woods! Thanks again.

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:44 am

Perfectionist wrote:

Thanks, I personally found the MTS very professional looking, but not worth 700$.

Bethany, I've read a lot in this thread, but I have yet to see any before \ after pictures.
Have anyone posted before/afters here?

I'm mainly wanting to use it on my scars and small wrinkles and would loe to see some real results from independant non affiliated people.

hi perfectionist
i wanted to say something about my experience w/ the dermaroller because i think it is a brillant and effective tool...I can't give you pictures-way too private, but i can tell you my experience and i can also tell you i have NO association whatsoever w/ DR in any way. I am also putting this in writing for anyone with acne scarring (i wish i had the luxury of just getting rid of wrinkles)- it's a hard condition to live with, and this may be your ticket out of that hell.
i have been using the dr for acne scarring (and, hey, if it hit's some of the wrinkles then it's a 2-fr). I am BLOWN AWAY by the results -- when i look at my face i could almost cry - and this is just from the first roll (which was done 2 weeks ago). No, the scars are not gone, but i would say they are between 25-40% reduced (some scars responded really well). This may not seem like a high %, but anyone w/ acne scarring would understand the victory. I have looked in all kinds of lighting thinking maybe the scars will show up in their fullness here, but they don't. They are softened, more filled in, my pours are more refined (even my kids commented)- if i were to get no more improvement it would be money and time well spent.
JONZN' for my next roll, but i am restraining myself, hard as it is... i want to wait a full month.
one more thing - for some reason, i was never skeptical about this tool, maybe because i know people use tatoo needles to reducing scarring, but i was nervous that i'd hurt myself (hit the juglar and bleed out LOL )or just have some kind of awful reaction or infection - so i took it slowly and i did the face in sections on different nights - after i saw all the blood, i also realized this felt more "emotionally" managable for me.
m

Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:12 am

Bethany: Just got to say, you don't look 42 at all, I'd guess in the 30's so whatever your doing, keep doing it =)

I actually don't have acne scarring, I got 3 flat burn scars on my stomach, which in the summer kills my tan(3 red nonpigmented areas really stand out) and nice stomach.
I also got 2 gigantic scars on both my knees from being a too active kid.

I do also have wrinkles on my forehead.

That's what I am aiming to achieve.
Getting rid of the wrinkles before they develope into full blown deeeep wrinkles and hopefully diminish atleast the superficial burnscars on my stomach.

Moongoddess, I'm glad to hear you are having positive results.
Which lenght you using?

As for "before / afters"
I totally see how it's private for people, however taking before/afters of the forehead doesn't reveal anything about your identity to anyone.
neither does the cheeks if you blank out the nose/eyes.
Same can be done for most of the body.

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:10 am

Bethany-

sorry to keep bothering you,i read the prices on the discount derma roller site and i was wondering if the prices apply to any length,or is it still more for the 2.0 & the 2.5? and is the 2.5 even still available?

and does anyone have any problems with the derma roller getting stuck in their skin sometimes,is this normal or do i have a bent needle that i missed?

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:25 am

hi perfectionist

you sound SO "ahead of the game" - i bet you'll love this little contraption! I use the 1.5 --a must for scaring! It goes deep, it produces blood and i can hear/feel ( hmm

..which is it) the dr doing it's thing.
as for cropping a picture for privacy - yup, you're right - but that's assuming you know how to actually down load a picture Embarassed

(or is that upload)...uggh -one of these days i'll step up to the 21st century!
m

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:38 pm

I ordered my rollers, and am now just waiting for them to arrive. I'm hoping that this will really work on both my crows feet (my nemesis, even with the botox that I addictively spend way too much money on!) and also the loose skin on my lower body.

I lost a lot of weight this last year (about 40 lbs, on a small frame, gained and lost fairly quickly) and have truly disgusting loose skin and stretch marks all over my thighs and butt. I'm using my wellbox, which is helping with the skin, but I need more of a boost that that, even.

Oh, I am no good at waiting. I need to develop some patience.

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:58 pm

Perfectionist wrote:

Bethany: Just got to say, you don't look 42 at all, I'd guess in the 30's so whatever your doing, keep doing it =)

I actually don't have acne scarring, I got 3 flat burn scars on my stomach, which in the summer kills my tan(3 red nonpigmented areas really stand out) and nice stomach.
I also got 2 gigantic scars on both my knees from being a too active kid.

I do also have wrinkles on my forehead.

That's what I am aiming to achieve.
Getting rid of the wrinkles before they develope into full blown deeeep wrinkles and hopefully diminish atleast the superficial burnscars on my stomach.

Thanks...you made my day! Very Happy

The dermaroller did not do a lot for my forehead wrinkles, unfortunately...I kept hoping that they would improve, but that never happened. However, I will be able to give you an update as to the STOP's effect on forehead wrinkles in the next month or so.

As far as your stomach...people have had very good results by combining dermarolling and copper peptides, though you still need the vit A and the vit c. Just keep the C 12 hours away from the CP's. You will also need a 2mm to 2.5mm roller to break up the scar tissue.

I am not so sure on the knees...they will not be able to take a long needle roller at all.

free skin care · Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:01 pm

tessera wrote:

That's great information Beth, thanks. I too have the sensitive chest skin - I got welts there using retin-A during my Obagi program, so I have to use a less irritating form of A in that area. I only use isopropyl alcohol to sterilize my rollers (hope that's enough!) and my DIY containers. I wonder if I should boil the bottles as well... Kassy probably knows. I'm hoping rolling will improve my crepey skin texture and fine lines, but I also want to tighten things up with STOP. (And I'm doing Ageless for the droops.) Based on your recommendation, I'm buying some Vivite today to use with Obagi for the pigmentation issues. I feel like you're Gretel, and I'm following your breadcrumbs through the woods! Thanks again.

If I can save you some $$$ and time, I am happy to help! BTW, while I do purchase frequently from EDS, I also price check at skincarerx.com since we can get an additional 20% off everything they carry (pm for the discount code if you need it). I get my Vivite Vibrance on ebay.

free skin care · Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:21 am

thanks for sharing your experiences everyone.
i stumbled across this thread and find it both fascinating and frightening. I cant imagine rolling pins on my face...
for those of you that are using this technique, did you have it done professionally first, or, did you just dive in and do it yourself?

Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:28 am

It does look quite brutal doesnt it? Im itching to have a go because i dont like how my skin has aged.

Question for the UK ladies...if they are any here.

What brand of serum etc do you use before and after rolling and is it one bought here in the UK? As shipping from America is often rather expensive.

thank you

free skin care · Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:43 am

isa09 wrote:

thanks for sharing your experiences everyone.
i stumbled across this thread and find it both fascinating and frightening. I cant imagine rolling pins on my face...
for those of you that are using this technique, did you have it done professionally first, or, did you just dive in and do it yourself?

I personally did a ton of research from the collagen generation, risks, etc. standpoint, and educated myself on the appropriate topicals to support skin remodeling. I then started out with a .5m roller, quickly worked up to a 1.0mm which I used for 6 months, and then graduated to a 1.5mm.

There is far more to this than people realize...whether you are rolling yourself or a doctor is doing it. The optimal protocol will get you optimal results.

Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:08 pm

Bethany, you seem to be the "main expert" on dermarolling here.
I see you recommend a 2mm for my scars to break up the scar tissue.
Is there more to it than just rolling the dermaroller from side to side, up n down and diagnoally ?
Is there any preperation you recommend?

free skin care · Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:54 pm

isa09 wrote:

thanks for sharing your experiences everyone.
i stumbled across this thread and find it both fascinating and frightening. I cant imagine rolling pins on my face...
for those of you that are using this technique, did you have it done professionally first, or, did you just dive in and do it yourself?

hi isa09

For me, this has been several years in the making (done lota reading/pondering on needling/tatoo needling). As far as jumping in - i did only in the sense that i had to push past my fears and JUST DO IT, but alot led up to that. What ultimately led me to do this was the girls on the Flex Effect forum. A few whose judgement i respected were doing it and were speaking higly of it. At first i thought they'd lost their minds - and that it was actually massochistic - then i hopped over here and these boards speak for themselves. I did not have it done professionally, but i read tons - alot of pages on this board and all of the articles that Bethany posted (and i still managed to mix some info). I was especially concerned about the potential for infection and also the potentially unbearable pain.
when i finally "took the plunge", I didn't use a numbing agent because i was uncomfortable with the disassociation - i was lucky to not need one (so far - we'll see w/ the cross hatch). As far as the topicals, i was already using them and had been for some time. This has turned out to be one of best things i've ever done for myself (but i won't go on about that)i recommend it, but YOU MUST arm yourself with information first.
m

free skin care · Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:27 pm

Perfectionist wrote:

Bethany, you seem to be the "main expert" on dermarolling here.
I see you recommend a 2mm for my scars to break up the scar tissue.
Is there more to it than just rolling the dermaroller from side to side, up n down and diagnoally ?
Is there any preperation you recommend?

I would really recommend doing some reading...I have posted a list of articles, and a brief synopis of many of them.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

The key things to come away with are:
- The importance of Vit A and C in generating collagen (your most important topicals) and the necessity to pretreat before rolling
- The importance of inflammation in generating collagen
- Exactly how to roll
- Rolling frequency (every 4-6 weeks, or every 2 weeks at MOST)
- Disinfection is also important

free skin care · Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:28 pm

moongoddess wrote:

i recommend it, but YOU MUST arm yourself with information first.

This is an EXCELLENT recommendation!

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