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DermaRoller

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Kay2008
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:43 am      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Ella's Mommy wrote:
that "diary" is very misleading... there should be a newer update


I know, I was thinking that too, about the update... it's been 6 months now.



It would be great if they could put up an updated photo!

Maybe I will email and ask them lol.

When I came across that diary, I made a comment at the bottom of the page (I don't think they have approved it though...). This is the comment I made: "Did this person roll daily, for four weeks?

I heard you are meant to roll once, every 4 weeks?"

and I got an email reply from someone at the site saying: "You can only do one session every 4 weeks when using the longer professional lengths, shorter lengths can be used more often."
So what do they class as "longer professional lengths"!? 2mm or more? Because I do believe the lady in that diary used 1mm or 1.5mm daily so Gawd knows.
Kay2008
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:33 am      Reply with quote
I replied to the email they sent me saying: "Hi,

Thanks for your email. Can I just ask, what do you class as "longer professional length" needles?
I currently own a 1.5mm Derma Roller and I am not sure if it will be ok to use daily, or only once a month."

The reply I got was: "Hi,

Please see our instruction page, as there are two methods: http://www.derma-rollers.com/35/scientia-derma-roller-instructions/


Our standard needle size is 1.0mm - which treats all conditions - but we also stock 1.5mm derma rollers if you have deeper scars / stretch marks, and 0.5mm derma rollers for light scarring, hair loss, light acne scars, anti-aging and better absorption of creams. For professional use, we have 2.0mm and 2.5mm skin rollers. We also offer the NEW! 1.0mm or 1.5mm 3 line roller which is narrower and designed to get into harder to reach areas. (Especially useful on the face).
0.5mm and 1mm rollers are fine to use up to 5 times per week, 1.5mm rollers up to 3 times per week and 2mm and 2.5mm rollers a maximum of once per month or longer."
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 am      Reply with quote
photoqueen wrote:
I hope I will be able to post to this thread without being told that what I am seeing is just inflammation of my skin, as I have lived in my skin for 49 years and now when it is inflammed, here goes: my stretch marks on my arm have faded to a level that I am happy, there has been a DRAMATIC improvement, and I will now give dermarolling a rest. I have followed the instruction given to me by the supplier, I have found the use of high levels of infra-red light, have accelerated the healing process, the source of the light is an Omnilux plus head.

That is my update.

P.


Well, I certainly hope you see long-term results as well (long term *positive* results that is), because I would love to NOT have to do aggressive rolling.

I think the main problem many people face is not obvious inflammation, but rather microinflammation, which is not visible to the naked eye.... this is how rollers get into trouble, they can't even see the damage until late in the game.

Do you think the use of the omnilux light may have significantly boosted the effects of rolling?

Thanks for the update -- please keep us posted over the next several months, if you don't mind?
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:53 am      Reply with quote
Kay2008 wrote:
We also offer the NEW! 1.0mm or 1.5mm 3 line roller which is narrower and designed to get into harder to reach areas. (Especially useful on the face).
0.5mm and 1mm rollers are fine to use up to 5 times per week, 1.5mm rollers up to 3 times per week and 2mm and 2.5mm rollers a maximum of once per month or longer."


I am surprised at how limited their selection is... is anyone checking the "Discounted Dermarollers for EDS members" thread? Maybe I'll bump it so it shows up for new rollers.

Both Jack and Kaia have a broader selection, and from what it sounds, better pricing.
Lowbrowscientist
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:07 am      Reply with quote
Kay2008 wrote:
0.5mm and 1mm rollers are fine to use up to 5 times per week, 1.5mm rollers up to 3 times per week and 2mm and 2.5mm rollers a maximum of once per month or longer."


Oh, and, they are flat-out wrong about this Shock

This is one time you should ignore the suppliers... they are trying to sell rollers. We get a whole different story from the people who actually did the research, conducted the studies, and got the results that we all want.

As for the lengths, needles up to 0.5mm can be used frequently (as in, up to 5 times a week for some people). 0.75 is considered "intermediate".... I can't quite recall, but I don't think it's quite long enough to stimulate collagen. 1mm *IS* a length used for CIT and should not be used at the same frequency of the "baby" needles. (the 0.75mm shouldn't be used carelessly either)

I'm glad we have access to so much clinical information and I'm irked that most dermarollers suppliers completely ignore it. There IS such a thing as professional integrity and business ethics Rolling Eyes
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:22 am      Reply with quote
I believe I have read every page of this very long thread...and did not see an answer to the question of how long the rollers typically last before needing to be replaced?

I remember reading about cheap rollers and bent needles - but not how many rolls users are getting from, for example, the Dr. Rollers before needing to replace them with new ones?

Thanks, BF
Lowbrowscientist
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:41 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I believe I have read every page of this very long thread...and did not see an answer to the question of how long the rollers typically last before needing to be replaced?

I remember reading about cheap rollers and bent needles - but not how many rolls users are getting from, for example, the Dr. Rollers before needing to replace them with new ones?

Thanks, BF


IIRC, you can get anywhere from 6 months to a year out of a 0.16mm or a 0.25mm, depending on how often you use it. I *think*, but am not 100% certain, that this applies to the 0.5mm as well.

The longer needles (0.75 and up) are only meant to be used from 5 to 10 times total, because they become dull (and less effective) much more quickly.

hope that helps a little..
Kay2008
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:59 am      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Kay2008 wrote:
0.5mm and 1mm rollers are fine to use up to 5 times per week, 1.5mm rollers up to 3 times per week and 2mm and 2.5mm rollers a maximum of once per month or longer."


Oh, and, they are flat-out wrong about this Shock

This is one time you should ignore the suppliers... they are trying to sell rollers. We get a whole different story from the people who actually did the research, conducted the studies, and got the results that we all want.

As for the lengths, needles up to 0.5mm can be used frequently (as in, up to 5 times a week for some people). 0.75 is considered "intermediate".... I can't quite recall, but I don't think it's quite long enough to stimulate collagen. 1mm *IS* a length used for CIT and should not be used at the same frequency of the "baby" needles. (the 0.75mm shouldn't be used carelessly either)

I'm glad we have access to so much clinical information and I'm irked that most dermarollers suppliers completely ignore it. There IS such a thing as professional integrity and business ethics Rolling Eyes


You are so helpful! Thank you so much.
I am so glad I decided to take part in this thread.

Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
I believe I have read every page of this very long thread...and did not see an answer to the question of how long the rollers typically last before needing to be replaced?

I remember reading about cheap rollers and bent needles - but not how many rolls users are getting from, for example, the Dr. Rollers before needing to replace them with new ones?

Thanks, BF


IIRC, you can get anywhere from 6 months to a year out of a 0.16mm or a 0.25mm, depending on how often you use it. I *think*, but am not 100% certain, that this applies to the 0.5mm as well.

The longer needles (0.75 and up) are only meant to be used from 5 to 10 times total, because they become dull (and less effective) much more quickly.

hope that helps a little..


Wow only 5 - 10 times. Imagine how quickly you would be replacing them if you followed the instructions on some sites. Unless it depends on how "hard" you use them.

I am sure some of you have already seen this picture before, but I found it interesting. Showing what different length needles reach:

Image
Ella's Mommy
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:25 pm      Reply with quote
mountaingirl wrote:
Today is Thurs and I rolled with the 2mm this past Sun, about 5 days ago. No peeling(!) which has really amazed me, and I have to attribute it to not applying Retin A afterwards, and only using C serums and Emu oil since the roll. My skin still looks good even though I am past the post-inflammation-puffiness stage. Absolutely no evidence on my face, of the aggressive roll I just did. I think I will continue to roll every 3 months with the 2mm. I am one of the people that was looking to get a Professional Roll with a Doc, with the BIG GUNS, (a 3mm) but it occurred to me that I was capable of doing close to that at home with a 2mm, and avoiding costly travel and lodging. I'll keep ya'll posted on my progress. wave


no peeling? thats amazing. but don't you need the vit a?

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Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:25 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks for the kind words, Kay -- back when she was still active on EDS, Bethany was really amazingly helpful to find all the research and make it available to us. She even wrote to Dr Leibl (and I think dr Fernandes as well!) and got some detailed replies to specific questions. A lot of other great posters were also sharing their experiences, particularly some who have been rolling for well over a year now... So, I was really just standing on the shoulders of giants and benefitting from their knowledge Smile

Kay2008 wrote:
Wow only 5 - 10 times. Imagine how quickly you would be replacing them if you followed the instructions on some sites. Unless it depends on how "hard" you use them.


Yes, I think the 5 to 10 use rule is assuming intense rolls each time.

Although, since the long needles will dull a lot faster, even with light use they'd have to be replaced fairly frequently.

Quote:
I am sure some of you have already seen this picture before, but I found it interesting. Showing what different length needles reach:

Image


Thanks for posting - I actually need to save that one for my files Smile
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:30 pm      Reply with quote
WOW -- check out Dr Liebl's blog:
http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/


In the March 19th entry he's getting some pretty dramatic results in only 3 treatments. (I say "he's" getting dramatic results, though it's actually a medical team in Germany, following his protocol)

This is why I am so intent on following his routine as closely as possible, in case anyone's still wondering Very Happy
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:40 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrow said:

Well, I certainly hope you see long-term results as well (long term *positive* results that is), because I would love to NOT have to do aggressive rolling.

I think the main problem many people face is not obvious inflammation, but rather microinflammation, which is not visible to the naked eye.... this is how rollers get into trouble, they can't even see the damage until late in the game.

Do you think the use of the omnilux light may have significantly boosted the effects of rolling?

Thanks for the update -- please keep us posted over the next several months, if you don't mind?

PQ:

I find the Ominilux Plus head/treatment - works on the fibro-myocytes - the treatment makes the skin toned and helps to form any laid down collagen - so I think in parallel with the Omnilux revive head/treatment, has contributed to a firmer and smoother area when I have needled.

Off course I will update you on a regular basis.

PQ.
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:10 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Ella's Mommy wrote:
that "diary" is very misleading... there should be a newer update


I know, I was thinking that too, about the update... it's been 6 months now.

If people can truly get these kinds of results with less agressive rolling, I will be the first to jump on the bandwagon!

I was actually hoping that the Stop device could be a replacement for dermarolling, since it's much less invasive, but after a lot of reading and going back and forth on it, I don't think it's a good option for me. So... I will continue to be a human pin cushion until something more promising comes along Laughing


if i have to be a human pin coushin to look the way i want then so be it.... beauty is pain, that phrase is so true

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Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:48 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Kay2008 wrote:
I am sure some of you have already seen this picture before, but I found it interesting. Showing what different length needles reach:

Image


Thanks for posting - I actually need to save that one for my files Smile


Keep in mind that the layers of skin that are depicted as straight lines really do not look that way in reality...the epidermis and basal layers are more accurately depicted as an undulating line. Plus, the basal membrane is very thin, but is not depicted as such in that graphic.

The thickness of skin layers also varies by person...blood vessels live in the dermis, yet I could get a VERY bloody roll with a 1.0mm roller. However, the simplified graphic does not depict that.

I also doubt if those penetration depths apply equally to all brands of rollers...the Dr. Roller has cross-linked needles which penetrates farther than most other rollers.

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Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:50 pm      Reply with quote
Ella's Mommy wrote:
[ no peeling? thats amazing. but don't you need the vit a?


Ella's Mom: Ideally yes! You should apply Retin A, but I am nervous about the accumulation of Retin A in my liver, having used it for more than 2 decades. Those needles are portals and a direct line in and I'm just going to start being VERY conservative about my use of Retin A (in my case Tazorac.) For the average dermaroller, I absolutetly support the use of retinoids after rolling.

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Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:20 am      Reply with quote
Hello all!!

I have been reading the threads over and over to see if anyone is experiencing what I am experiencing....

The one month prior to commencing rolling I was using aha peels about 5x week (about three months ago) along with rosehip seed oil,avocado oil and evening primrose oil. Rosehip oil is supposed to have natural retinol (vit A) in it and the avocado oil is supposed to have vit A and C in it. The last two months I have been rolling about 1X a week with a 1.5 roller. However, I have not been using it aggressively as I am pregnant and can not use a topical pain reliever. Further, I am unable to use retin A as well. So I have been rolling weekly and daily using..again avocado oil, evening primrose, and added the DIY ascorbic acid recipe (the water soluble one). This week I started using the .30mm for product penetration around 5X week....I was surprised to find that it hurts as well....Not as much as the 1.5mm but does hurt and makes my face sunburned although I don't have blood spots like when I use the 1.5....Here is my question.....I have been experiencing what I think Bethany called the uglies in the 90's of this thread. That is, my forehead is scaly and wrinkly but refuses to peel....I am hoping this is temporary as it looks a great deal worse than when I started.....Although I did not take a before pic I don't recall having too many problems with my forehead....only a deep glabbelar line between my eyes due to constant squinting.....Now my forehead is wrinkly and scaly and I am wondering if this is permanent or is my skin going to eventually peel and show better skin underneath it....Why have I not yet peeled...I know Keliu also uses natural products....for their vitamin content....I am hoping it's my not using retin a that is creating this scaly look..... Again, since starting this process I have yet to peel......this can't be good as how can my skin renew and show what's underneath if I don't peel. I can't even use Retin A after I give birth as I will be breastfeeding...

Maybe I should just use Emu oil all week like MountainGirl and see if that helps improve my skin texture...Any suggestions?
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Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:09 am      Reply with quote
This week I started using the .30mm for product penetration around 5X week....

Oops....that's not entirely true..I have only used it twice as I just received it.....and I think rather than using it daily I will try to use it every second day..
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Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:37 pm      Reply with quote
Hello everyone,

I just recently purchased two derma rollers, a 1.0mm (stretch marks and body) and .5mm (hair thinning). I am very excited, yet nervous! Can anyone who has had success with using the deram roller to treat stretch marks share their stories with me? Also, please describe your first dermarolling experince with me. Thnak you all so much!

Panda
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Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:54 pm      Reply with quote
im behind in my reading again lol,my monitor went up,i just got a new one,but i thought while im catching up id post this,

has any1 used a derma roller like this,because the price is the same for all sizes.its really cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dermaroller-Needle-Roller-2-0mm-Acne-Scars-Wrinkles_W0QQitemZ260395004576QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSkin_Care_test?hash=item260395004576&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
Kay2008
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Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:55 pm      Reply with quote
Upon examining my arms today (which I haven't done for along time as it upsets me)... I have noticed a new stretch mark that is next to my other old ones. I say it's new but it isn't that bright red/pink colour, it's sort of white but does have a darker tone to it than the others... anyway, I know it wasn't there before! It's freaked me out and I'm feeling pretty down.

I'm not sure what's best to do really. So I have decided to roll that one stretch mark with my 1.5mm derma roller. In hope I can catch it in time, and also could be my "test" area.

I would like to do it tomorrow, can anyone give me any tips if any?

The products I currently have at home are:
1.5mm derma roller (never used)
EMLA cream (I think I would like to roll without that if possible...)
Savlon spray
Retin A (Tretinoin gel 0.125% or 0.25% not sure on % I will have to check)

Should I roll and that is it? or should I roll and apply the Tretinoin gel afterwards?
Do you think my best bet would be to do an aggressive roll? (draw some blood) or just lightly?

Should I roll in a star shape (up 5 times, down 5 times, horizontal 5 times and vertically 5 times?)...

Thanks
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Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:24 pm      Reply with quote
Kay,

Your rolling pattern sounds good. I don't know anything about the EMLA, but I'd try it without at first. I can roll my arms with a 1.5 with no ice or numbing.

Normally I would say to apply your Retin-A after you shower (after your roll) but because you have the gel I'm just not sure. Next time you buy some Retin-A I'd suggest you go with the cream because the gel is going to tend to sting and dry out your skin more. My routine is: roll, shower, dry off, apply Retin-A.

Regarding the pressure you roll, I would tend to suggest you don't go with a super light roll, but you'll know what you need to do once you start. I wouldn't necessarily be looking for blood to let you know if you're using enough pressure--I don't even bleed when I push my roller in as far as it will go. I've been using about medium pressure for my rolls. I push it down with force, but not with all my strength.

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Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:22 am      Reply with quote
Has anyone actually seen results using the dermaroller for pitted scars? or any type of scar?
Kay2008
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Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:45 am      Reply with quote
P Girl wrote:
Kay,

Your rolling pattern sounds good. I don't know anything about the EMLA, but I'd try it without at first. I can roll my arms with a 1.5 with no ice or numbing.

Normally I would say to apply your Retin-A after you shower (after your roll) but because you have the gel I'm just not sure. Next time you buy some Retin-A I'd suggest you go with the cream because the gel is going to tend to sting and dry out your skin more. My routine is: roll, shower, dry off, apply Retin-A.

Regarding the pressure you roll, I would tend to suggest you don't go with a super light roll, but you'll know what you need to do once you start. I wouldn't necessarily be looking for blood to let you know if you're using enough pressure--I don't even bleed when I push my roller in as far as it will go. I've been using about medium pressure for my rolls. I push it down with force, but not with all my strength.


Hi,

Thank you for your reply!
I keep meaning to get to my doctor to see if she will prescribe me the Retin-A in cream form. I will have to hurry up and make an appointment.

Can I just ask what strength Retin-A cream you are using? The gel I have is only 0.01%! in my previous post I said it was either 0.125% or 0.25% oooops! Confused 0.01% sounds very small to me.

I could buy some cream off ACD website, but if I can get some from my doctor might be quicker.

Thanks again for the tips/advice, much appreciated.

I might even give my boobs a roll too. Got some nasty big stretch marks there too! My arms are my main priority right now though.
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Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:36 am      Reply with quote
Kay2008 wrote:
Hi,

Thank you for your reply!
I keep meaning to get to my doctor to see if she will prescribe me the Retin-A in cream form. I will have to hurry up and make an appointment.

Can I just ask what strength Retin-A cream you are using? The gel I have is only 0.01%! in my previous post I said it was either 0.125% or 0.25% oooops! Confused 0.01% sounds very small to me.

I could buy some cream off ACD website, but if I can get some from my doctor might be quicker.

Thanks again for the tips/advice, much appreciated.

I might even give my boobs a roll too. Got some nasty big stretch marks there too! My arms are my main priority right now though.




I'm using the .05% cream from ADC.

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Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:05 pm      Reply with quote
Personally Vivre, you may not like what I'm going to say but, IMHO, you are rolling waaaaaay too often with the 1.5 even if you aren't being too aggressive. I did that also, rolling once every two wks with a 1.5mm amd followed that routine for 8 mths. MISTAKE~~!!! I never got results. If I were you I would stop rolling for a while, let my skin relish in the wound healing cascade without reinjuring it. In other words Give it a chance to HEAL! Start using emu oil and give your skin a break.

vivre wrote:
Hello all!!

I have been reading the threads over and over to see if anyone is experiencing what I am experiencing....

The one month prior to commencing rolling I was using aha peels about 5x week (about three months ago) along with rosehip seed oil,avocado oil and evening primrose oil. Rosehip oil is supposed to have natural retinol (vit A) in it and the avocado oil is supposed to have vit A and C in it. The last two months I have been rolling about 1X a week with a 1.5 roller. However, I have not been using it aggressively as I am pregnant and can not use a topical pain reliever. Further, I am unable to use retin A as well. So I have been rolling weekly and daily using..again avocado oil, evening primrose, and added the DIY ascorbic acid recipe (the water soluble one). This week I started using the .30mm for product penetration around 5X week....I was surprised to find that it hurts as well....Not as much as the 1.5mm but does hurt and makes my face sunburned although I don't have blood spots like when I use the 1.5....Here is my question.....I have been experiencing what I think Bethany called the uglies in the 90's of this thread. That is, my forehead is scaly and wrinkly but refuses to peel....I am hoping this is temporary as it looks a great deal worse than when I started.....Although I did not take a before pic I don't recall having too many problems with my forehead....only a deep glabbelar line between my eyes due to constant squinting.....Now my forehead is wrinkly and scaly and I am wondering if this is permanent or is my skin going to eventually peel and show better skin underneath it....Why have I not yet peeled...I know Keliu also uses natural products....for their vitamin content....I am hoping it's my not using retin a that is creating this scaly look..... Again, since starting this process I have yet to peel......this can't be good as how can my skin renew and show what's underneath if I don't peel. I can't even use Retin A after I give birth as I will be breastfeeding...

Maybe I should just use Emu oil all week like MountainGirl and see if that helps improve my skin texture...Any suggestions?

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