DermaRoller
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Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:27 pm

I used the 2.0 tonight for my acne scars. It was painful but tolerable, I did tear up when I went over my nose and apples of my cheeks.

I experienced the popping and crackling sounds that some of the other posters described, I did not get this with the 1.0!

This time I left the Retin-A alone completely and probably won't use it for a week. I did use the Skin Biology CP serum after. It has been about 2 hours and my face is not even red anymore! There was a little blood this time though, and my nose is tingly.

free skin care · Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:15 am

psanyer wrote:

the link isn't working, it pulls up a page with different books on it

Just copy and paste it.

free skin care · Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:26 am

Im wondering do people still use the dermarollers? It seems like the people who previously use them arent posting here anymore. Did something happen? Im about to buy my first dermarollers but I wanted to be sure.

free skin care · Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:57 am

faeriedust wrote:

Im wondering do people still use the dermarollers? It seems like the people who previously use them arent posting here anymore. Did something happen? Im about to buy my first dermarollers but I wanted to be sure.

I'm still rolling and I'm sure other "old timers" are. The reason that some of us don't post on this thread so much anymore is because the questions are so repetitive and have usually been answered a zillion times before.

free skin care · Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:31 am

Yep....still rolling, I think most of my questions were answered, although I am still not sure the length of needle I should use on arms and thighs.

BF

free skin care · Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:09 am

I still roll. (Im not one of the experts BUT have been rolling maybe a year now??)

I did take a 6 month break from my 2.0 and just started again a few weeks ago since I finally got Emla cream (didnt work for me though)

Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:11 pm

Hi Psanyer...I did peel quite a bit with the start of the hyperpigmentation and thru out..but have stopped peeling since having stopped the dermarolling for awhile..thanks

free skin care · Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:49 am

I just purchased 2 rollers 0.25 and 1.0 from dr-roller.eu
I hope it works for me.
After using the dermaroller, can I apply saline solution to clean the area? I saw someone using that in a video.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:23 am

Josee wrote:

There is currently no doctor or rolling protocol that I know that recommends rolling your face every day, or every second day with a 0.5 mm roller. I think if you roll that often, you will generate too much constant inflammation which in the end will translate in skin aging, postinflammatory hyperpigmentation, etc, etc.

Also I think that a 0.5 mm roller will not be deep enough to treat your acne scars, which go deeper than that. If I were you, I would buy the 1.5 mm roller and roll once every 5-6 weeks.

Whatever you use the day your roll will not make a HUGE difference in things. It's mostly what you use every day that matters.

I think that using Retin-A after rolling is too irritating for the skin and not worth it. I would use some other retinol, and an oil form of Vitamin C and Vitamin E if you want.

HTH!

Thank you. Instead of Retin-A, can i use something like Avene Diacneal instead after rolling and what about Body Shop Vit C Skin Boost as my topical Vit C?? good choice?

free skin care · Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:18 am

Keliu wrote:

I'm still rolling and I'm sure other "old timers" are. The reason that some of us don't post on this thread so much anymore is because the questions are so repetitive and have usually been answered a zillion times before.

Yep. What she said. Very Happy

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:34 pm

I was on the All day chemist website and noticed that a 20gram tube of Retin-A was only 2 dollars. SO I am wondering how long each tube lasts you? I plan on using this on my stomach every other day too. On average, how long does one 20 gram tube last?! Thanks!!!!

free skin care · Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:38 am

I wouldn't use the Diacneal because I believe that is the one with the glycolic acid in it and that would hard on your skin - just a straight Avene Ystheal may be better...

I am using DIY Oil based serums...

BF

free skin care · Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:39 am

has anyone tried using dermaroller for hairloss?

free skin care · Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:34 pm

I got my dermarollers today. They are sooo tiny! Even for the regular sized ones. I was expecting it to be bigger. If I had known, I wouldnt get the 3 line 1.0mm rollers but the regular ones instead. Haha seems more value for money that way.
Is it okay to use if I have some clogged pores on my face or not? I know it's not advisable to use over zits.

free skin care · Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:54 am

I guess no one reads this thread anymore? Sad

Anyway I tried the 0.25 roller just now. I didnt numb my skin. It hurt a little but it was bearable. I didnt bleed too. How much more painful is the 1.0?
I also used the 0.25 on my scalp, near the hairline because Im losing hair. Sad

I'll update my results on this.

Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:15 pm

faeriedust wrote:

I guess no one reads this thread anymore? Sad

Anyway I tried the 0.25 roller just now. I didnt numb my skin. It hurt a little but it was bearable. I didnt bleed too. How much more painful is the 1.0?
I also used the 0.25 on my scalp, near the hairline because Im losing hair. Sad

I'll update my results on this.

Most of the veterans of this forum have stopped posting here because as new people join in, the questions kind of repeat over and over. There are a few newbies like me who do pay attention!

I have a 1.0 and a 2.0, I imagine the 0.25 is like a feather in comparison to a 1.0. My experience with this size has been painful but bearable without a numbing cream. Remember this is penetrating into the deeper layers of the skin, and depending on how hard you push you may get a little bleeding. I wouldn't expect any bleeding or pain with the 0.25.

As for your clogged pores, try unclogging before you roll. Wash your face with a gentle but effective cleanser like phisoderm or cetaphil, boil some face towels in a large pot to sanitize them, take one out and wave in the air to cool down a little before applying to your face, lay the towel over your skin and allow the steam to open your pores. Once you have done this several times, gently purge your pores of the plugs, but be careful not to squeeze to hard or you might leave a bruise! Wash your face again with the gentle cleanser concentrating on the areas that have the clogged pores, really massage the cleanser in, then rinse well. Pat the face dry, and now apply your serum or other product before you roll!

free skin care · Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:33 pm

I did a roll on my back for strechmarks but i didnt bleed it just went red for an hour now i am worried i will see no results...i dont know maybe i need to buy some numbing cream

free skin care · Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:49 am

How late do we start to see micro inflammation? I rolled a little over 2 weeks ago and my SM's are now starting to look smaller - I assume thats only micro inflammation but it feels odd to have it this late in the game. Confused

free skin care · Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:54 am

Loosey wrote:

How late do we start to see micro inflammation? I rolled a little over 2 weeks ago and my SM's are now starting to look smaller - I assume thats only micro inflammation but it feels odd to have it this late in the game. Confused

The thing is you can't see micro inflammation, that's the problem. Micro inflammation isn't good... (well that's what I learned in this thread).

I assume what you are experiencing is just normal inflammation from rolling.

free skin care · Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:39 pm

Does anyone have any research references to microinflammation? I am trying to understand it separately from regular plain old skin inflammation and I think I only recall one brief mention in one of the Fernandes articles?

Anyone?

Thanks, BF

free skin care · Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:38 pm

Here's a great article on inflammation found in June's US Elle magazine.

http://www.elle.com/Beauty/Makeup-Skin-Care/Inflammation-Friend-or-Foe/Try-these-skin-care-tips-to-prevent-aging-only-on-ELLE.com2

I think it's interesting to see that Dr. Brandt gives a Gentle Waves treatment after using a laser - I've quite often used my LED after dermarolling but have been worried that I was cancelling out the whole process - it would seem not (according to the good doctor anyway).

Inflammation: Friend or Foe?

The truth behind inflammation, plus skin care products to keep redness and wrinkles at bay
By Maggie Bullock | June 16, 2009 3:00 p.m.

Photo: Steven Krause

Omega-3 tablets, green tea lattes, antioxidant serums: Chances are, you’re already engaged in the fight against inflammation. Medicine’s biggest, baddest buzzword gets more headlines than Lindsay Lohan (albeit in different publications). It’s the subject of countless studies and theories; the basis of more than one “lifesaving” diet (see: Mediterranean, Weil, Perricone); and is, according to one skin care entrepreneur, “the single biggest cause of aging.”

On the flip side, inflammation is a large part of why laser resurfacers and acid peels and—according to some experts—even doctor’s-best-friend Retin-A actually work. Each of these engineers a small injury that causes skin to repair itself—which it does through inflammation. No one’s saying you should break up with your derm or toss your tube of Retin-A, but the conflicting claims give pause: Why is one form of inflammation killing us and the other making us prettier—and how are we supposed to know the difference?

But first, perhaps a better question: What is inflammation? That’s the funny part. At its core, inflammation is basic biological border control—a very good thing. Whether you cut your finger or get sneezed on by a flu-ridden colleague, your immune system deploys specialized repair cells, including mast cells and macrophages, that signal waves of other cells and chemicals to arrive on the scene. The cascade is not unlike gut-renovating a house: Enzymes demolish the damaged tissue, then other workers come in and build it back up. Finally—ideally—the body senses the job is done and shuts down the process.

How much inflammation each of us has is believed to be partly genetic, but smoking, allergens, UV rays, pollution, and hormones (stress-related cortisol, for one) can provoke more of it. Cells in the skin and
intestines, for example, are constantly working to kick out the irritants in everything from Marlboros and Doritos to plain old tap water.

Perhaps because of this constant assault, many experts now believe that our repair machinery can get out of whack, stuck in the “on” setting. Chronic inflammation—the bad stuff—has been linked to cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer’s. In the case of heart attacks, inflammation in the blood vessels can weaken the lining of artery walls and cause fatty deposits, or plaques, to rupture, forming vessel-clogging clots. Autoimmune disorders such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis are, in fact, prime examples of inflammation gone awry; the body has turned its inflammatory (i.e., immune) response on itself, repeatedly assaulting healthy cells in the joints, nerves, and connective tissues.

Though the basic process is the same throughout the body, all inflammation is not created equal—different kinds give us different sensations. If it’s in the brain, we get a headache (hello, hangover); in the liver, stomachache or nausea; in the intestines, upset stomach and cramping. And much of it lurks undercover, an unseen, uninvited guest that we can’t feel at all.

But what, you may well be asking, is it doing to my face? In skin, high levels of inflammation produce exactly what you picture: the redness—and sometimes pain, itching, and flaking—that anyone who suffers from eczema, psoriasis, or rosacea knows all too well. It’s not the infection, per se, that makes these conditions so uncomfortable and unsightly—it’s the body’s war against them. The condition known as chronic actinic dermatitis, in which badly sun-damaged skin becomes dry, scaly, and itchy? That’s inflammation too.

And while clogged pores and built-up oil contribute to the miseries of acne, the condition is also caused by bacteria, which incites—you guessed it—inflammation, sometimes leading to pain and scarring. This can become a particularly vicious circle: Stress also causes inflammation, which leads to acne, which leads to more inflammation, and so on.

But even if your pores are Cate Blanchett– perfect, the day-to-day inflammatory response to pollution, smoke, and UV light is inevitably taking its toll. These irritants unleash free radicals, which attack skin cells’ protective membrane, allowing them to become dehydrated; this ushers in molecules that break down collagen and elastin and release toxins, including more free radicals. The result doesn’t just show up as redness: It’s also part of the spots and wrinkling that we all recognize as aging. “It’s an ongoing, everyday process, and it’s happening to all of us,” says dermatologist Fredric Brandt, MD, who has offices in New York City and Miami.

Just how many of our spots and wrinkles this is responsible for is unknown. As for the potential magnitude of the role inflammation plays in aging, Joel Gelfand, MD, an assistant professor of dermatology at University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, points to an extremely rare—and nightmarish—inflammatory condition, acquired cutis laxa, in which skin loses elasticity and hangs in loose folds. “It’s a very unusual clinical event,” Gelfand says. “But it occurs because inflammation is eating up the elastin, which leads us to believe that inflammation may be a cause of elastin breakdown in the skin. But that’s just a hypothesis. We need studies.”

The danger isn’t just aesthetic. “There is a line of thinking that certain kinds of repeated inflammation can create a nurturing environment for skin cancers,” says Kevin Cooper, MD, who chairs the department of dermatology at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland and was recently recognized by the American Academy of Dermatology for his research on inflammation. “We do know, for instance, that sometimes a wound that doesn’t heal and is chronically inflamed can get a skin cancer inside of it. That makes us worry a little bit that chronic or repeated wounds might raise our risk of cancer.”

While skin cancer has long been assumed to be caused by the DNA mutations inflicted by UV rays, now researchers wonder how much of the problem is, in fact, the body’s self-defense response to the sun—inflammation. A study published last year illustrated the potential of chronic inflammation to help a cancer grow. Scientists at the Lankenau Institute of Medical Research in Philadelphia gave mice a single dose of a carcinogen, then exposed them to a poison ivy derivative twice weekly for 20 weeks. The steady irritation of the poison ivy confused the body’s immune response. Therefore, IDO, an enzyme whose job is to shut down the immune response, suppressed the defense troops, allowing precancerous cells to develop into tumors.

Cooper predicts sunscreen will one day have an “immune protection factor” rating, similar to SPF, which will measure a cream’s ability to prevent the immune suppression caused by sun exposure. “Is skin cancer the direct effect of UV light on the DNA of the skin? Or is inflammation alone causing it? Probably both,” says Washington, DC, dermatologist Tina Alster, MD. “We don’t know which one is more important.”

All of which leads to the big question: Why on earth would patients pay their dermatologists thousands of dollars just to incite this process?

New York City dermatologist David Orentreich, MD, explains the theory behind these short, sharp bouts of inflammation: “Take the new fractionated CO2 resurfacing laser. It burns skin in a precise, controlled fashion. But the body responds as it would to any burn, removing the damaged components, sending in workman cells.” Due to the nature of the injury, this results in smoother, younger-looking skin instead of an unsightly scar. “Little dots of light make tiny holes in the skin’s surface,” he says. “The healthy tissue surrounding each of the holes knits back together.”

Of course, laser-wielding docs are quick to point out that the inflammation they’re causing is short-term—and productive. “You have to separate the chronic inflammation that causes aging from the acute inflammation caused by treatment,” Brandt says. “Acute stimulates the skin’s repair system, laying down new collagen. But afterward, the white cells in your body issue a termination statement, and it stops.”

“You have to do a little bad to get some good,” Alster declares. “Right now, there’s nothing better than lasers to initiate a new collagen response. There is no topical product that can do that. But the word here is controlled injury.”

Years ago, doctors would prescribe oral steroids to calm post-treatment redness and irritation. “Over time, we realized the inflammation was actually helping to increase the end benefit,” Orentreich says. “Maybe we should do less to quench it.” Now, for the sake of patient comfort and convenience—after all, less downtime makes a procedure sound a whole lot more appealing—there’s an increased interest in modulating the response without quelling it entirely.

For example, after performing fractionated resurfacing treatments, Brandt regularly pops patients in front of the GentleWaves LED panel of yellow light for 35 seconds. “It calms the inflammation and the activity that breaks down the collagen. You want to wound the skin but shorten the inflammatory cascade,” Brandt explains.

Alster recently published a paper in The Journal of Dermatologic Surgery detailing a split-face test: Post-Fraxel resurfacing, she flashed only one side of the face with GentleWaves and left the other alone. The GentleWaves-exposed side recovered quickly, with a day or two less swelling and redness. Interestingly, a week later, both halves had the same cosmetic benefit.

But anyone who’s tried to camouflage an aggravated, overtreated complexion knows that inflammation isn’t just inflicted by high-power laser. What about the irritants in our own bathroom cabinets: rough scrubs and intense peels; harsh, drying cleansers; potent topical treatments? Retin-A (and its fellow prescription retinoids Tazorac, Avage, and Differin) helps lay down new collagen by kick-starting the wound healing process, but it also makes most patients red—at least until skin becomes conditioned to tolerate it. Devotees have been using Retin-A for 37 years; it is a proven antiager and, by regulating cellular turnover, it may have cancer-fighting benefits. But if it works by causing inflammation, wouldn’t daily use make that chronic?

Brandt maintains that most products are not inflammatory as long as they’re used properly. Common sense comes into play: If something continually makes your face red and irritated, well then, don’t use it.

Alster agrees. “People who keep pushing the envelope with inflammation may be doing more harm than good,” she says. “When they come into my office looking very red from using Retin-A, I say, ‘Well, don’t get to that stage. Figure out what works best for you.’ ”

Like every expert interviewed for this article, Alster argues that there is more evidence in favor of acute inflammatory procedures and creams than there is against them. “We don’t know how much inflammation is good and how much is bad—that differs from person to person,” she admits. “But saying that anything that causes inflammation is bad for you? That’s really going out on a limb.”

Still, says Case Western’s Cooper: “Will the kind of inflammation that’s being created by these [dermatological] procedures be helpful in the long run or could it have a dark side down the line? It’s unclear. But it’s reasonable to raise the question.”

Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:00 pm

somebody please help! I have battled loose thigh skin and cellulite for ages. Just spents tons of money on endermologies sessions that are not working. I have done coffee wraps, several creams, dry brushing etc. working out to no avail. Loose skin does not firm cellultie does not abate. Will rolling work for me? What size needle should I buy? How does rolling work, do you roll over the same spot several times. Do you roll for several minutes? Once a day? Any insight would be so very very appreciated thank you for this board!

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:20 am

Keliu - thanks. I just realized it may have been Perricone who first wrote about the different types of skin inflammation - so I am off to read his stuff.

Mariek - do a word search on dermarolling and cellulite and stretchmarks,etc - you will find posts and threads that give you the info you are seeking. best of luck to you.

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:48 am

Kay2008 wrote:

Loosey wrote:

How late do we start to see micro inflammation? I rolled a little over 2 weeks ago and my SM's are now starting to look smaller - I assume thats only micro inflammation but it feels odd to have it this late in the game. Confused

The thing is you can't see micro inflammation, that's the problem. Micro inflammation isn't good... (well that's what I learned in this thread).

I assume what you are experiencing is just normal inflammation from rolling.

I meant inflammation, I always get it messed up Laughing

Anyway, why am I seeing inflammation results now and not previously? It just seems a bit odd.

Oh, and I read back a few pages where someone said not to use Retin-A while rolling because it will cause more inflammation.. do you mean right after rolling or a couple of days after rolling too? I'm just confused since we're told to use something like Retin-A to help with cell renewal (or something like that) but it can cause more inflammation? Shock

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:55 am

Kelieu - thank you for posting the article on inflammation. I've read Perricone's books and can see the issues he raises about inflammation. This article sums up alot of what I've heard here recently.

Someone asked about earlier posters - if they are still rolling.

Well, I am not. It's not that I don't want to, but I tried a new skin care line to get rid of my acne issues and I've kept away from rolling while I did this. I actually started the new routine to get my skin clear so I could roll (rolling was causing an errent pimple here or there to bloom into a full breakout!) Unfortunately, my skin is not clear yet, so no rolling for me.

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